Big Fat Story
Observers debate legitimacy of the anti-Obama gatherings.
Is the anti-Obama protest movement an outpouring of populist resistance or a cleverly manipulated, lobbyist-approved sham? Democrats have attacked the legitimacy of some of the protests, saying the activists disrupting health-care town halls are bused in by groups financed by wealthy conservatives, like FreedomWorks, or backed by special interests connected to the health-care industry, like Conservatives for Patients’ Rights. The protests, Democrats say, are no more than “Astroturf”—or fake grassroots enthusiasm. The Republican National Committee has responded with a statement calling the accusations an attack on the little guy: “It is remarkably callous and extraordinarily out-of-touch for the White House and the Democrats to reduce the concerns of millions of Americans as ‘manufactured’ or labeling them ‘angry extremists.’” Still, there’s no denying the enthusiasm of the people on the ground. “I’ll posit that Astroturfing tends to fail when there is nothing to sustain it, and it has a better chance of succeeding when the opposition can’t figure out how to Astroturf their way into the same enthusiasm channel,” The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder writes of the debate.
The president’s plan is relatively popular—on paper, at least.
During the presidential campaign, Obama’s secret weapon was his vast grassroots organization. So with conservative protesters dominating the news, where are his grassroots supporters now? Good question: The most recent CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll on health care found that even though respondents favor Obama’s plan by a 50 percent to 44 percent margin, the anti-Obama camp reported higher enthusiasm about taking action on the issue. Why is not entirely clear; part of the problem may be that the Democratic plan is still up in the air and thus cause for a contentious internal debate that makes Obama’s supporters reluctant to rally. The Washington Post’s Ezra Klein also points out that the group that would benefit the most from health-care reform—the uninsured—is also one of the least politically active. The White House is moving to close the gap by mobilizing its grassroots operation, Organizing for America, to boost its participation at events, and Obama is personally calling on supporters to head to town halls.
Photo: J. Scott Applewhite / AP Photo
New Democratic strategy: paint opponents as far-right extremists.
The latest wave of organized anti-Obama protests comes on the heels of new polls showing a tremendous number of Republicans subscribe to the debunked notion that President Obama was born in Kenya. Democrats are working hard to combine the two stories in order to portray health-care protesters as extremists. In a Web video released Wednesday, the Democratic National Committee uses footage of birthers interrupting a town hall in Delaware intercut with images of “angry mobs” protesting Obama’s health plan. The video offers a message at the end asking viewers to call the Republican National Committee and complain, but the RNC is ready for them: According to CNN, callers who indicate they are leaving a response to the ad are transferred to an operator for the DNC. RNC Chairman Michael Steele has taken credit for the plan. Next strategy question: Will the DNC toilet-paper the RNC’s headquarters in response?
GOP Protesters Invade Town Halls
How quickly things change: After years of deriding anti-Bush protesters as kooks, enthusiastic conservatives are organizing to block health-care reform. Can they scuttle the White House agenda—or are their raucous gatherings sabotaging their own cause?
Anyone who’s attended protests knows message discipline isn’t the easiest thing to maintain among an angry group of marchers. Not surprisingly, the conservative protests have quickly produced a string of bloopers that opponents are using to label the demonstrators as pitchfork-wielding mobs. Last week, protesters hung a Democratic congressman in effigy outside his office. This week, protesters interrupted a town hall to shout down Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. Perhaps the lowest moment came Tuesday, when Connecticut protesters suggested that Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT), who was recently diagnosed with cancer, treat himself with whiskey and painkillers.
Photo: J. David Ake / AP Photo
Angry Republican supporters forced a response from McCain.
Democrats banking on conservative protesters to end up hurting their own cause can look to recent history for encouragement. In the waning months of the 2008 presidential campaign, as John McCain launched an extremely negative strategy against Barack Obama, whom vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin said was “palling around with terrorists,” supporters responded with over-the-top rhetoric of their own at rallies. The increasingly frightening scenes, which included racial insults against the traveling press, shouts of “terrorist!” and the beginnings of the birther movement, attracted tough media coverage and led civil rights leader Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), a personal hero of McCain’s, to warn of potential violence. Eventually, McCain had to repudiate his own supporters, telling a woman who called Obama an “Arab” that his opponent was “a decent person and a person you don’t have to be scared of as president of the United States.”
Photo: Matt Rourke / AP Photo
Freshman Democratic lawmakers are in a tough spot on health care.
Vocal and visible opposition to health-care reform could be especially effective against the many freshman Democrats in the House who took office in a wave election and are potentially vulnerable in 2010. “We all just finished very tough races,” Rep. Jim Himes of Connecticut tells The New York Times. “Very few of us are in safe Democratic districts. So we listen very, very hard.” One ex-freshman is familiar with their situation—former Democratic Rep. Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky lost her seat in a Republican-leaning district after casting the decisive vote to pass to President Clinton’s budget in 1993. In an interview with The Daily Beast, Margolies-Mezvinsky suggested that wavering Democrats might need to make political sacrifices for their beliefs. “I think there is a real difference, as Pericles and Machiavelli said, between leading and being led,” she said. “I think if you get down there and all you want to do is keep your seat, you’re being led, you’re not leading.”
Photo: Newscom
exploora
I think free access to news, and video clips of Palin/McCain really helped the Dems cause.
Otherwise people if they did not have access to information, related to how these people appeared to be, philosophical conservatives may have voted for the party and not the candidate. I think free access to news makes a big difference in how people perceive the way things are.
I guess Murdock could inadvertently ruin that, so he can make billions on his newspapers instead of possibly losing millions. That is just my opinion.
SimonSaize
You are correct. In fact during the Bush administration "they"- government officials in support of the Bush machine, cut programming and commercials, which were thought to be "negative"- and it was during the Super Bowl I believe in 2002 that this started in full force- there was commercials aimed at informing people, and those ads were cut.
And thats an American value? Bush and his associates deemed it unpatriotic to attack them- it was a time of war ( not true, however it was actually a time of Police Action-legally they couldn't claim "WAR")- although they were compliant and didn't willfully hurt too many protestors, but they did however during the RNC set up detentions camps in New York. NO JOKE.
Has anyone watched the inaugural parade 2000? It was quite scary if one watches the first 3/4, it is the first parade were a President is completely BOOED.
In fact the free news saved us in more ways than one. And what also didn't air frequently were the global protests, were ever Bush went around the globe he was met with massive protests and some riots. Some beloved representative his foul-murdering team of multi-degreed oil profiteering associates turned out to be.
Remember election night 2000 Gore won and then all of a sudden Bush was declared a winner. Lucky for him, his father however lost his second term, and the Gulf War was shut down.
McCain however is a hero- regardless of what people think or see on the news, he botched that election. I remember a clip of him talking with the C.I.A. on geographic locations of Iran and Iraq- he seemed "confused" and answered wrong- actually I think that news clip was intentional and a plant.
Then there's Lieberman suspiciously changing parties and going to watch over the Republicans.
See what Bush did is strain the country, suck it dry- like the oil mines in Texas now defunct, he was going to turn the soil to stone and reap a land. They did the same in the Mid-East- drained that too.
What a loving Jesus freak he turned out to be, why he cut funding to God's children (the poor, welfare recipients, the uneducated, the sick and rejected) is a lesson we will soon forget as the "Chevrolution" drives through another decade of commercialization and anti-sex stable family affairs, United States Style (The U.S.S.).
exploora
People may be afraid to go to town hall meetings.
If I remember right, it was like that with walmart. The most vocal mostly against walmart went to the meetings. Once the referendum was taken, the majority voted for walmart, and appeared to not care less about the effect it had on downtown.
I think most middle class probably have health care, and health care reform, might in theory lead to an increase in competition, lowering prices for insurance, and leading to some companies exiting the market. That is just a theory.
I find the so called liberals in reality are more liberal with other people's money than their own.
periscope
Liberals are more liberal with other people's money than their own? I disagree and if you look at the fact for the past 25 years, you might change your mind.
No Republican president has balanced the budget since Raygun. In fact, Raygun's tax cuts to the rich exploded the national deficits into the $100 billion/year category.
Bushboy inherited $200 billion surpluses from his Democratic predecessor. He proceed to to give unwarranted tax cuts to the rich, and after one year eliminated the surpluses and began generating record deficits that surpassed Raygun's.
Bushboy doubled the national debt from $5 trillion to $10 trillion. The interest we pay on the debt amounts to nearly $400 billion/year. How's that for squandering the taxpayer's money?
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
roger37
Ronald Reagan never submitted a balanced budget in 8 long years of his presidency. The last President to do that before him was Ike. Bill Clinton also holds that distinction (of reducing the national debt).
And Reagan's deficit was $908 Billion when he was elected, and $2.6 TRILLION when he left office. He tripled the national debt. And W doubled the debt, as you guys say, from $5.8 Tril to $11.6 Tril. These were usually for jingoistic reasons, but Bush also gave us his tax cuts for the big payers in the face of 2 wars.
periscope
The Republican Party doesn't care about the law or common decency or the welfare of the American people and have used "dirty tricks," the threat of mob action and numerous other ploys in recent history to impede a fair election in Florida in 2000, where the fraud, Bushboy, was un-elected. They also tried to run roughshod over the husband of Terri Schiavo when he tried to implement what he thought was proper for his brain-dead wife. This recent election campaign with Obama was another example of lies and fears, as they called him a "terrorist" and misrepresented virtually everything he stood for.
Now the Republicans are engaged in an attempt to prevent affordable healthcare coming to the American people. They trot out all their usual inanities like we should be afraid of "government run healthcare," even though the two best run healthcare organizations in America are Medicare and VA Healthcare - both run by the government.
And now the healthcare industry spends $1.4 million/day to try and block public healthcare, because it means they will no longer be able to charge outrageous premiums, while the Republicans are on their knees genuflecting to the private insurers.
PamAnn
Amen. What is of big concern to me is the going beyond free speech and freedom of assembly to this heinous atmosphere of anarachy that the conservatives and Republicans are proudly pushing down everyone's throats. They take absolutely no responsibilty for the violence that is beginning to appear. That is NOT an American attitude and they are NOT acting like Americans. They should all be ashamed of themselves and go crawl back into their holes.
shortcourse
No...real Americans took up arms to defeat the British to win Independence against tyranny...real Americans took up arms to free Europe from tyranny and against Japan for invasion. Do not for a minute misjudge real Americans.
ryokisan
shortcourse, I guess 'real' americans also voted to secede from the Union? When we start taking up arms against our own country men out of fear and anger, there is a problem. We are supposed to be the model...if we don't like what our representatives are doing, we vote them out, we vote for those we think will do better. and yes, it's perfectly fine to make your voice heard, but we have seen other countries battle against themselves violently and shake our heads and feel sad for the innocents who get caught up in the violence, and now you are condoning that kind of paper? We are better than that and more reasonable. Come on....We are all real Americans that were born here or are naturlized citizens. Come off this 'real' American BS. You sound like that stupid Palin.
TurfGal
What do you mean going "beyond" free speech and freedom of assembly. I haven't heard of any violence.
PhilMcRoin
Not only are they not taking responsibility for the violence that is beginning to appear, but they (i believe it was Glen Beck today on the radio) actually blamed it the violence on ACORN.
The worst part about this whole thing is that these meetings are being held to answer peoples questions and confusions about the proposed legislation and these people come in and disrupt it because they don't want to know, they've already been told what is in the legislation.. Mandatory assisted suicide for all senior citizens.
If you are going to take up arms, you should probably know what you are taking up arms against.. From my perspective... you are fighting the informing of the public on the terms of the bill by the people who are involved.. Could you be any more ridiculous?
deebles
The issue of health care is neither liberal nor conservative: it is an economic issue which needs to be dealt with period. This is a wake-up call, and a good way to think of it is what if Greenspan had realized the threat of the housing bubble and went to Bush and told him that the entire economic system needed a rebooting before the derivatives market threatened the banking system? Many liberals would have found any attempt at reform to be ridiculous simply because Bush was not of them. Well, the crisis in health care is as dire and probably too little, too late. To view any reform through conservative glasses because Obama is now the other is just as ridiculous. And there were many people who foresaw the economic crisis but were in no position to avert it. Now, we have the crisis and a window of opportunity. I can't begin to understand health care, but I see no use in fighting something that I don't understand. Because just like the out of control housing market and the companies who gladly exploited that, I can tell by my balloning insurance premiums that no good will come from doing nothing.
shortcourse
Periscope...why don't you reveal how much the dems take from the private health care industry instead of spouting your hate diatribes....oh yeah..seems like msnbc already did a magnificent coverage of this fact and Obama is right there on top with his hand out like all of the other sleazy politicians.
roger37
What the hell are you talking about? Got some sources or references (that are not right wing loony conspiracy sites)? Do you really think this is not about protecting the profit margins of the health care industry?
Please don't be a propaganda-sucker.
elldeen
This is an excellent post. It seems that the healthcare industry cares a lot more about money than people, and is run by CEOs and CFOs who have no medical degrees or training at all.. I've heard some of the most outrageous cases of people who were denied coverage just to save money, and this practice must be stopped!
shortcourse
and you think congress has medical degrees and training....about as much as they can manufacture autos....come on elldeen...think.
elldeen
I know that most members of congress don't have a medical background of any kind. But we still have government run programs like Medicaid and Medicare, don't we?
aspiemom
shortcourse - that is why the bill calls for committes ~ including physicians ~ to decide what insurance companies must offer in return for their premiums. I work for a hospital and I see all the time people with "insurance" that deny every claim stating it's not covered.
theoPitt
periscope, you show that you are a complete idiot every time you mention Florida in 2000. Every Liberal group and their mother went down there and had interns hand count the ballets after Bush was declared the winner, and NONE of them could say that he did not get more votes in Florida.
Ritarita
Scalia appointed
The 'President'
I was there.
galeso
The New Trier (IL) Democratic Organization keeps asking people to use these same "dirty tricks" on Mark Kirk (R). Should all Democrats and Republicans forfeit their right to vote for 4 years to give decent parties a chance?
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periscope
Your Acorn reference is idiotic. There were a couple of Acorn reps who misrepresented what the organization was about. They were dismissed. There never was a wholesale attempt to cheat, lie or engage in attempts to shut people up.
That kind of thuggery is typical of Republicans and the right-wingers, who never have respected anyone who disagreed with them.
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shortcourse
You mean like filling up a few buses to stand around in front of CEO's houses and intimidating their families...or Acorn poll workers in Philadelphia carrying batons to intimidate voters....stick with the facts or stick your comments...
roger37
Yeah, Dover, you got it.
dahniuru
I'm behind the town hall meetings. I'm a little guy, a nobody, with not enough money to buy political favoritism and with no way to get my opinions to be heard by the elected officials.
Now that you are elected, you want me let you do whatever you want; to go away and shut up, and just pay taxes or go fight for whatever cause will line the pockets of your big money supporters.
Unfortunately no one is paying me to go to the meetings. No one is offering $10 dinners where I can express my opinions to the elected official. My interactions with those working for the elected official are mostly rude and unresponsive. I doubt that much of anything I do or say gets through to anyone in a position to do anything other than what the specific party (Dem OR Rep) tells them to do, as directed by the lobbyist who always has access.
I know you all are a lot smarter than I am, and so you have the responsibility to tell me what to do and to think. If I can't understand why you want to do something, and ask questions, you dismiss me as 'astroturf'.
You wonder why I might get a little angry?
roger37
If you are not allowed to speak, yes, you should be angry. If you're one of the people who believe what The Lewin Group (funded by health insurers) and other lobbyists are saying, and you're not allowing anyone else to speak, then we should be angry with you.
hent85
Union members bused in to protest against Bush policy is okay. MoveOn.org finance by billionair hedge fund George Soros protesting and organizing on behalf of dems. is okay. Code Pink allowed to hold signs and disrupt Senate hearings is okay. Democratic protesters holding an effigy of Bush as Hitler is the greatest form of patriotism but those who do the same but are doing it against the great messiah and his followers are ridiculed and should be silenced? Power in the hand of ideologs is disturbing.
theoPitt
hey Periscope! Thats okay right? Because Dems are "nice" tugs, right?
Ritarita
Huh?
deebles
ACORN is a word which has been manipulated to produce an emotional response like a Pavlovian bell. It has no more use today than Bush's ROTC records, Willie Horton, Goldwater's daisy or Kennedy's missile gap. These are things that campaigns use to influence a vote. Once the vote is cast the word is useless except as a bell to control the salivating dog.
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AZDave
The most interesting thing about the "Tea Bag" Right wing and the "birthers" is that even while they say they are against Government Healthcare they all seem to be on Medicare. Tell you what if they are so against Government Healthcare let them "burn" their medicare cards on the steps of the Congress...take their names and get them to "burn" their Social Security Cards too. If they don't do this in a very public act they are all just phoney!
shortcourse
Go count them...until you have facts...shut the hell up.
ryokisan
Excellent Idea! AZDAVE
roger37
Most of the demonstrators that are on Medicare will not admit that it is a government program. They are simply whipped into righteous rage by insurance industry lobbyists. They have little idea of the facts of Obama's suggested program.
WestVillager
This article is very fishy.
shortcourse
Go ahead with name calling...delude yourself all you want...but in the end...don't f*** with middle America!!!
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roger37
Just what they were probably saying in Germany in 1933. Just a different subject, backed up with zero facts and rampant fearmongering.
periscope
Rightwingers are narcissistically inane. They conjure up anecdotes of "bad behavior" by Acorn or some other group they disapprove of and make absurd claims that this is some national conspiracy or effort made by the "left" to attack or subdue some rightwing "darling". These are always gross exaggerations that are used to justify the genuine "bad behavior" of the Republican Party or some of it's rich patrons, who have funded nationwide stupidities like the "Tea Bag" events and now the roaming "Shouters," who try to stifle a civil meeting between Congressional representatives and their constituents.
It's typical of the thuggery the Republicans have demonstrated since the days of Nixon with the Watergate burglary, the Donald Segretti "dirty tricks," the Lee Atwater's more of the same and finally Karl Rove's long criminal career in the WH trying to coerce Justice Department lawyers to indict enemies of the Bushboy administration.
The vile, gangster record of the Republican Party and their miscreant patrons speaks for itself.
theoPitt
And Soros isnt your rich patron? And Obama your new God you worship?
You really make Liberals look bad you are so one sided.
roger37
Periscope is right on and absolutely correct. This is an evolving study of the use of propaganda, and you guys knocking periscope are at the center of it.
False equivalency, straw man arguments, racial fears, and the fear of "commies" and "socialists" I have been hearing from you guys since the Truman administration.
shortcourse
Periscope...i finally figured out where your periscope is...pull it out of your a** and start looking for the truth.
splinter
How much does DNC pay you? Or does moveon.org sign your check?
Periscope, you are a partisan hack incapable of thinking beyond progressive talking points. All emational appeal without any real connection to facts. Shove off.
splinter
One nerve left? That's the clever come back?
Money is non-partisan. So is debt and bankruptcy and a miriad of other problems that 've sprung leaks in the Great American Boat. Hacks like periscope play the blame fame while offering no new lines of thought. He is about as helpful to a debate as a candom to a pregnant woman.
Hotfrostins
Down Periscope,,, most of these radical righties only got one nerve left and you seem to be standing on it.
hent85
Democrates complain of voter intimidation by GOP but a youtube evidence of two New Black Panther members are shown with night sticks in front of a polling place with so much difficulty AG Eric Holder can't bring himself to charge them of a civil rights violations but his boss is very happy to fire an inspector general who investigated the mayor friend in Sacramento. The great democratic leader FDR interning Japanese Americans is not as bad as the Nixon people burglary. I see no bias here. Obama air raiding villages and sending drones into soveriegn countries to kill children was a crime during Bush's time but with Obama doing the same thing America is now the righteous country. Renditions by Obama is now not a crime under the UN Charter Against Torture but an act of kindness to non US citizens.
I won't talk about health care, you might turn me in to the WH for acting fishy. Now spying on your neighbor for the state is the greatest form of patriotism. Forget all the fear about all those warrant less wire tapping civil rights violations the messiah is only doing what is good for us all.
Giving 14 billion for several years to oil companies is soo evil but giving tens of billions to two failing auto companies in one year is a sign of enlightenment. I know this is wrong because it didn't come from the messiah, I thought putting all that auto bail out money into cold fusion research would be a better use of tax payer money? The problem with that idea is it would not be paying back those special interest voters that got Obama into office.
wiseone
If you saw it on you tube, it was probably staged. The black panthers agenda was to elliminate police brutality and provide food to the poor. You haven't succeeded in degrading them, most people what they stood for. Saving the auto industry was supported by republicans too. Where were you when wall street investors brought oil and resold it at $4.00 to $5.00 a gal.Whena war fraudenlty created with no bid contracts by Haleburton and Cheney was once it's CEO? Yes the $10.000.000 a month Iraqui war. Obama is left with one of the largest deficits this country has ever faced, and we want him to perform miracles.
hent85
Wiseone
Read the May 29, 2009, Philadelphia Bulletin ( thebulletin.us/articles/2009/05/.../doc4a1f42b32c161287079901.txt) or just Google, New Black Panther intimidation dismissed, where you will get several articles. The old Black Panther Party founded by Huey Newton and Bobby Seal is not the same as the New Black Panthers who are a bunch of racist. You notice the word "New" preceding the word Panther?
When wall street investers resold oil for $5 gal. George Soros, the hedge fund manager, profited from it so he can put more money into MoveOn.org so liberals won't attack him.
There are still no-bid military contracts under the Obama administration that Defense Sub. Com. Chairman. Jack Murtha among other dems are profiting from. But that's okay since he is a democrat. Don't forget, according to the AP, 543 million in stimulus contract were under no bid. Speaking against evil doesn't mean the dems won't do it. Even Senator Fienstien profited from the housing crisis when she steered billions in funding for the housing furclosures to her husbands consulting company, then again thats okay because it's a democrat. If I remember right Haleburton was find millions of dollars and ordered to pay back hundreds of millions of dollars for over charging the tax payers during the Bush days, which clearly shows the influence Cheney has in stopping investigations on his former company. I haven't seen any democrat asking for tax payer money back from these no bib contracts in the Obama administration.
"Saving the auto industry was supported by democrates too". What a strecht of logic to be able to blame repubs. when the House and Senateboth are controlled by Democrates who don't need republicans to pass any bill.
Bush had the authority to enforce the UN Security mandates on Iraq. You would know that if you read the UN Charters. Unlike Clinton, who had no UN authority to invade Kosovo only because NATO countries thought it politically was necessary.
During the campaign, Obama supporters insisted that if Obama got elected he would begin to talk to the world and hate for America would stop. Obama talking resulted in more North Korean missle testing and Iran brutally oppressing local dissent with no stopping of the nuclear missle program. The apologizing only increased soldier deaths in Afghanistan added with the second in command Al Qeada leader calling Obama the same as Bush. Maybe, Obama crying at the same time apologizing will get better results.
It would only be a miracle if republicans solved the our economic crisis but not for democrats since they are they smarter caste of americans.
mcmchugh99
The Republicans aren't telling the truth about any of it. They never mention that the public option has a means test of 300-400% of the poverty level, so it can never become a single payer system at all.
That the big lie, that it's "socialized medicine". It's not even close, and they aren't even finished watering it down yet in the Senate.
The other lie is the big thing that the Republicans never mention at all, because it would give the whole game away.
The real "reform" is going to be individual mandates on every person to buy private health insurance. That is what the insurance companies have been lobbying for and the Republicans insisted should be put into the bill, even if they will never vote for it themselves.
When the public sees how they have been suckered and bamboozled, they aren't going to be happy. These insurance companies will charge whatever the market will bear, since the government never regulates anything, no matter what laws are on paper. People will be paying a lot more for private health insurance, and they will have no alternative, since there will be no public option, and the government will make them buy private health insurance.
Obama would be wise not to sign such a "reform bill" at all, but he probably will--and Joe Average is going to be very upset. The Republicans will be happy, though, because they will be able to have their cake and eat it too.
theoPitt
Yes, they will charge what the market will bear due to competition. If there is competition. And we need competition. And if they are competing with a Public option that can undercut the Insuance Companies price, who do you think they will choose?
Hotfrostins
What about all the companies out there(mostly small or southern) who are not offering employees insurance benefits but openly compete against companies that do offer employees insurance benefits... they nengage in a race to the bottom and force the system to inflate costs for those with insurance. This is the real problem that Obama is going to address and the Republican fat cats sucking of the system competing this way are scared to death they might have to start paying their employees insurance benefits.
Maristow
Disruption is not the same as dissent and does not have first amendment protection. Once you engage in behavior such as shouting or physical intimidation or threats you have crossed the line into undemocratic behavior. One does have the right to express an opinion, vigorously and passionately, especially in town halls and one should express those opinions, but one does not have the right to disrupt other people from hearing a speaker or discussing a topic in public.The intent here is clearly to SHUT DOWN discourse, not to express a viewpoint.
There is no factual, reality based viewpoint being expressed by these people. Just say no to government healthcare and keep your hands off my medicare? That is not a rational argument based in reality. It is simply erroneous. The GOP could engage in a reasoned discourse on this topic, but has chosen instead to lie, obsfucate and bully their way to defeating what the majority of people need and want in this country. Any politician who does not disabuse people of the notion that Medicare is a not a government program has no integrity.
To the GOP, please, stop throwing up strawmen like ACORN or Code Pink. As much as you try to make ACORN a bogeyman, it does not have much influence in our political discourse. And as you will recall, Code Pink activists were forcibly removed from any meetings in which they engaged in disruptive behavior and not a single Democratic political leader or liberal pundit applauded these disruptive tactics or intimated that Code Pink activists should be encouraged to bully and intimidate other people. The GOP leadership, in league with corporate influence groups, is encouraging this disruptive behavior, in fact reveling in it, which betrays their undemocratic instincts.
The GOP, and the conservative movement is, as is often the case, on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of progress, the wrong side of the constitution and the wrong side of the facts.They cannot win on the truth, but winning is more important than anything else, even the welfare of actual human beings. So they will win on fear, confusion and bullying.If health care reform passes, it will be deemed a big, big victory for the Democrats, so they cannot let that happen. Any real discussion of health care reform would include a real analysis of other health care systems around the globe, a discussion of the costs and benefits of our already socialized medical systems, Medicare, Medicaid and VA and a real appraisal of how this system fails to meet the needs of too many people.
All I hear are canards about Canada, and blathering about socialism. No facts, no reason. Massive fail.
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shortcourse
It's OK CD...I was addressing periscopes' insane rambling.
roger37
Why do you detest ACORN? They had some people turn in fraudulent voter registration cards (because they were paid on commission--a mistake), but votes weren't cast against them. That's all they did.So what's the BFD?
periscope
The ignorance of the right-wing never fails to amaze. They remind me of people who thought that "bleeding" a patient was a cure. Republicans have convinced their uninformed followers that allowing the blood-sucking profiteers of private enterprise to drain your financial resources is actually in your best interests!
And the fools believe them!!!
theoPitt
I wish I was as smart as you. Did you know doctors still use leeches?
Hotfrostins
Genius.....leeches are used for generating circulation to a specific site, not for letting out large volumes of bad blood as in "bleeding a patient"..
roger37
These people (those making less than about $200K) have been voting against their own best economic interests for eight years, at least. I finally had to quit trying to point that out to them because they don't (or won't) understand it.
Thank you.
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