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The Bush Six to Be Indicted
Spanish officials are highly conscious of the political context of the case and have measured the Obama administration’s low-key reaction attentively. Although Spain is a NATO ally that initially supported “the war on terror” under Bush with a commitment of troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan, relations with the Bush administration deteriorated after Zapatero became prime minister and acted quickly to withdraw the Spanish contingent in Iraq. In the 2008 presidential campaign, Republican John McCain referred to Spain as a hostile state in comments that mystified Spaniards (it appears that McCain may have confused Spain with Venezuela and Zapatero with Hugo Chávez). Recently, the United States and Spain also wrangled over Spain’s decision to withdraw its troop commitment in Kosovo as well. Both Zapatero and Obama, however, have given a high priority to improving relations between the two long-standing allies. Spanish newspapers hailed the fact that Obama referred to Zapatero three times as “my good friend” during the recent European summit meetings, a sharp contrast with meetings at which former President Bush gave Zapatero a cold shoulder.
Both Washington and Madrid appear determined not to allow the pending criminal investigation to get in the way of improved relations, which both desire, particularly in regard to coordinated economic policy to confront the current financial crisis and a reshaped NATO mandate for action in Afghanistan. With the case now proceeding, that will be more of a challenge. The reaction on American editorial pages is divided—some questioning sharply why the Obama administration is not conducting an investigation, which is implicitly the question raised by the Spanish prosecutors. Publications loyal to the Bush team argue that the Spanish investigation is an “intrusion” into American affairs, even when those affairs involve the torture of five Spaniards on Cuba.
The Bush Six labored at length to create a legal black hole in which they could implement their policies safe from the scrutiny of American courts and the American media. Perhaps they achieved much of their objective, but the law of unintended consequences has kicked in. If U.S. courts and prosecutors will not address the matter because of a lack of jurisdiction, foreign courts appear only too happy to step in.
Scott Horton is a law professor and writer on legal and national-security affairs for Harper's magazine and The American Lawyer, among other publications.
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Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
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Martin Jacques is the cofounder of the UK think tank Demos, writes a regular column for The Guardian, and is a visiting research fellow at the London School of Economics Asia Research Centre. His new book, When China Rules the World, is available now.
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Christopher Buckley's books include Supreme Courtship, The White House Mess, Thank You for Smoking, Little Green Men, and Florence of Arabia. He was chief speechwriter for Vice President George H.W. Bush, and is editor-at-large of ForbesLife magazine. His new book is Losing Mum and Pup, a memoir. Buckley's Daily Beast column is the winner of an Online Journalism Award in the category of Online Commentary.
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Scott Horton is a law professor and writer on legal and national security affairs for Harper's Magazine and The American Lawyer, among other publications.
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Scott Horton is a law professor and writer on legal and national security affairs for Harper's Magazine and The American Lawyer, among other publications.
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Scott Horton is a law professor and writer on legal and national security affairs for Harper's Magazine and The American Lawyer, among other publications.
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Instead of belittling the gesture, maybe you should consider it an indication of the opinion of the rest of the world about the US under Bush.
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Bite me roger37,
The only idiot in this charade is the bamster government...I can't wait for the egg to fly in the face of Obama when he attempts to prosecute these guys...
@da47ve
actually Obama is the one (still) blocking the investigation.... why do you think the Spanish investigation is otherwise newsworthy.
We signed a treaty to investigate all allegations of torture and are not doing our part. I'm pissed at Obama for not investigating. If you don't think there should be a investigation into torture than Obama should be your hero currently.
I have the slightest eek of a sneaking suspicion that you have the slightest of tendencies to sometimes maybe blame Obama for the smallest part of everything regardless of reality.
I'd like to know what all the Americans who are criticizing Spain would want to do if the circumstances were reversed and it was AMERICAN citizens who were treated like this. My guess is that Limbaugh and all the usual suspects at Fox News would be calling for Zapatero's head on a platter.
da47e: Just F Your I, Spain is not part of the United States. It's, like, a separate country, ya know? Ergo, BHO has no authority there.
Actually, I agree with ElLamer. What he said!
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I think conservative American groups should try to obtain indictments in a third, European country against top Spanish officials involved in the opression of the Basques in Spain . If I'm not mistaken, there were allegations that the Basques were tortured. This step would definitely quash the Spanish and European holier than thou attitude and possibly get them to back down.
I find it strange that you would attack Spain on this issue.
Talk about missing the forrest for the trees!
Throwing the baby out with the bath water....sheesh.
this has nothing to do with China.
Of, sourse it does, "Steve Stephens", AKA Chou En Lai, Jr..
"The standards by which we judge these defendants today are the standards by which we shall be judged tomorrow."
(Opening remarks by Supreme Court Justice William Jackson, appointed by President Truman as lead Prosecuter at the Nuremberg trials. )
Maybe
You should phone
Pinochet's
Wife
For the
Punchline.
Har de har de freegin har! You won't be laughing when you are traveling abroad, get kidnapped, and tortured for years and years.
THEN, you will be singing a sad sad song
so it's okay that the Chinese torture Tibetans? man oh man....
haha it took spain to hold US officials accountable for torture. sad
Let's hold Spain accountable for the Anti-American sentiment that results in Jetliners crashing into our buildings.
Let's indict their bull fighters for animal cruelty while were at it.
ummm... so you're suggesting the Spanish are behind 9/11. Really?
Ok I'm all for it but lets wait until they torture one of our citizen first... Fair is Fair you know.
I think that is a bit of a stretch. Saudis moron, not Spain.
Let's nail bullfighting for killing about 100 bulls, but what about the 100 million cows and bulls killed every year for beef... those don't matter? I don't like bullfights (and I'm a Spaniard) but the bullfight argument is a little pathetic when put into perspective and considering how many animals, by the millions, are killed every years in the cheapest and sometimes cruelest forms possible. But I guess when it is presented in neat Styrofoam trays it does seem so bad...
dang it...WHY do some people have to even boot up their computers.
Well, Judge Garzon clearly has a lot of experience with war criminals, terrorists, and corrupt politicians... so I'm not terribly surprised that Gonzales, Feith, Yoo, et. all wound up in his docket!
Regardless of your political affiliation, one has to be ashamed of the incompetence, ignorance, and arrogance that bunch displayed... what fool would think that torture -- sorry, "enhanced interrogation techniques, or things that we call torture when someone does it to US" -- possibly provides anything of value worth setting aside our moral standing and principles? If you torture someone, they'll either endure it, or they'll tell you anything to make it stop... not necessarily anything true!
Yes this is one of the rare things that my liberal and conservative friends all agree on.
Puh-leeze! Move out of Berkeley.
@scough
Ok so in your world I live in Berkeley. How is it in your world? I like to go there.
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Just as they were presented with accurate info concerning the cultural make-up of Iraq and given what has turned out to be a very accurate estimation of how many troops would be required, experts on interrogation also certainly pointed out that information acquired through torture was generally worthless. Had we known the Bushies then as we know them now, we should have realized that , just as night follows day, they would ignore that wisdom.
You go, Spaniards!!! If there is anything that I can do to help, just ask.
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What a bunch of loooosers.. Why not start with active politicians like Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi, or maybe Al Gore for his global warming fraud
NWAR (Not Worth a Response.)
For people who think like this what about a test for any synapses firing in the collective skulls?
So, which of the six being investigated are "inactive" politicians? Probably a good idea to start getting your Doctor's notes read to you; malicious and malignant are easily confused by lazy readers too.
again I'm all for it, as soon as we have evidence of Reid Pelosi and Gore authorizing torture I will take to the streets demanding their arrest just like we promised the world. Until then lets stick to people we have slam dunk evidence on, oh wait that phrase is tainted isn't it.
Gloabl Warmings aFraud.....
Oh I just read the earth is flat too...
Wow, is that a joke? No one with a brain still believes global warming is a myth -- no one. There are seriously about as many scientists defending that idea as there are defending the idea that the earth is flat. If you really believe it is fraud, that's like posting a sign on your head that said, "pardon me for being an idiot." I'm not saying this as an insult or to be mean, just pointing out you might want to be more careful about expressing fringe opinions that make you look really silly unless you don't mind looking so out of touch...
BTW, there is still plenty of debate on how much of the global warming phenomenon is man-made versus a natural cycle. But no serious debate remains on the overwhelming fact that, man-made or natural, it is happening.
Even your idol and fool of an ex-President, Bush, agreed on his way out that Global Warming was a threat. The Republicans strategy of creating dumb and dumber followers with their lies and propaganda could easily make you their poster child "MaliciousDisorder"!
How very UN-AMERICAN of you. We are a nation of laws and NO ONE should be above them.
well, you have certainly selected an appropriate screen name for your hateful remarks.
It's about BREAKING THE LAW, something you folks only use when it's convenient for you or pushes your evil agenda.
I can just hear Fox News/O'Reilly now. Let the games begin!
Actually, O'Reilly has already commented, and is considering calling for a boycott of Spain. I hope that if people do not choose Spain, which has become an enemy of the US, as a vacation destination, including cruise ships that go there, they will feel the economic pain. Avoiding Spanish products, such as wine, might help too. Spain became irrelevant when they gave into the terrorists that blew up their trains, and elected a socialist leader.
Irrelevant you say! My dear friend the it is you and the Confederate party who are irrelevant. Only 25% of the U.S. population identifies as Republican. You have become a radical fringe group. Oh and have fun with your tea bagging, but I do suggest you wear a condom.
You're right! Let's boycott those Franco-loving fascists. They should be investigating their own Civil War before they start to worry about the US.
Boycotting Spain does nothing. How can you take them to task for investigating the torture of their own citizens at Gitmo? Reports have been leaking from Gitmo for several years regarding the interrogation methods and torture that we used every day. I have lived in Spain, and you are misinformed if you think they gave into the terrorists that blew up the Atocha metro. Know your issues before speaking your mind.
Munodi, exactly 73.356 percent of all statistics are made-up, like your 25% Republican nonsense. Actually, fewer than 5% of the U.S. population are extreme leftists, so you belong to a smaller radical fringe group than I do. See you at the tea party.
I would argue the pro-torture crowd are siding with the terrorists. What a way to boost recruiting.
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repeating Bill-O's talking points so dutifully.
These prisoners were not at Gitmo because they were great people. Spanish prosecuters need to move on and get a life. This is such a joke or should I say they are making themselves a joke of the world.
You don't know that -- there have been instances of mistaken identity, and otherwise innocent people who got caught at the wrong place at the wrong time. If they're terrorists, I say hang 'em high, but not without proving it first! That's what justice is all about!
Finally, some logic from you - I'm impressed - a little.
me thinks your screen name is wrong
it should be SmartKing! :
good post! Keep fighting the Good Fight.
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I see, only great people ever find themselves outside the long arm of the law? Great people like Dubya, Cheney, et al. Moron.
how do we know who's in there and how dangerous they are?
you better hope for mercy when you're swept up and hauled away in the middle of the night with no legal charges leveled. You'll have lots of time to think about it in the little box with the insects.
That's so special will we have to choose 1 or 2 to hear the verdict in English?
That's so disgusting. The embodiment of the "Ugly American."
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Don't be jealous because the Spaniards know more foreign languages than you do. Most know how to speak two to three languages, while you still struggle with one. Get a life.
Scott Horton seems to have a chip on his shoulder pertaining to the Bush Administration. It is obvious he has no life other than surrounding himself with hate. He sounds like a very unhappy sad miserable person. I think we all know what his agenda is by all these make believe articles trying to make them sound legitimate.
Unhappy... sad... miserable... you mean, like someone who writes a post speculating on the psyche of a writer, with no basis or argument, because they disagree with his politics? Guess it takes one to know one...
Now this is more like the king of idiots that I know and .........
So anyone who says anything that makes you the least bit uncomfortable "has a chip on his shoulder," and you then compound your error by sticking pins in your voodoo doll, when it's perfectly obvious you are pulling this out yer ass. Have you ever even heard of Harper's, where Horton writes the blog, No Comment? Have you ever even heard of his work as one of the leading anti-torture lawyers in the US? (Granted, Horton's long-standing support for McCain and his support for Gates as SecDef baffle even me.)
You say: "it seems;" "it is obvious;" "he sounds like;" "I think we all know;" care to join us in the reality-based community? I dare you to read No Comment, esp. Horton's posts on the relevance today of classical works of art, and come back here with an actual argument supporting your dumbass assertions.
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a second seems to be as long as you think about anything.
"President Bush did the job he was supposed to do."
Man, some people will just follow any guy with less than half a brain.
Here-here Michael! Seems like people posting have not read The Red Cross Torture Memos. Check them out folks. You'll find them on www.nybooks.com. Does The Geneva Convention ring a bell folks?
yes it does, but whenever I bring it up I get blank stares.
We need education on the subject, only those over 50 know, it seems.
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Rather misleading headline.
You will turn on TV Land and find a show other than the Jeffersons or Good Times playing before anything comes of this.
Yes, YES! Finally, a nod to accountability. Obama is dead wrong to try to tap dance around this issue. Defending the Republic and the Constitution, and thereby clawing back America's moral standing in the world from the Bush damage, should be as important a priority as the economy.
I agree, it's about time that someone starts an action that -it seems -Obama is incapable of taking. The Constitution has been trodded on for eight years, it is high time those thugs are sued. And if Spain has the courage to do the job that the US does not want to touch, good for them.
What fools the Spanish appear to be.
Glass houses---
These guys don't mess around, and I am glad to see it. Mayer reported on this in the New Yorker and Horton is an extremely well-respected legal scholar. So the moran(sic) posters here who think they are showing their machismo and patriotism by saying how ridiculous this is that the Bush regime would be prosecuted for the war crime of torture...should just realize how ridiculous they are for saying such tripe.
Thank god for Zapatero. Somebody has to be the grownup.
And, hey, Joanne38, I hear you're not such a good person either.
I hear that the Spanish did another good job while they were wearing their black robes during the dark ages - many received the same logical and unbiased judgements based on 'facts' and not emotional feelings to get the nod of the fanatics of the world.
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now thats a long shot if I've ever seen one. I suppose you still hold it against Christianity as well? lol
No, not against Christianity. Just 'Mother Church' that tortured and murdered those that disagreed with whatever 'her' thoughts and actions were There thousands 'dealt with' during those times of 'chastisement and purification' to quote the 'Mother Church'.
What a pack of monstrous hypocrites you Stinking Liberals really are. You had a chance show your stuff - to prosecute the Clintons and his staff when they were illegally bombing Aspirin Factories and killing whole families in Bosnia from 30,000 feet.
What did we get from you? Zero! Now, you are all P&V to side with one of the most gutless & corrupt governments on the planet. Well, good luck with that, TWO BIT PHONIES!
It will be interesting to see if the vagrant five leave the country knowing Spain has extradition treaties with a lot of countries that would love to see these jackals locked up for life, I surprised Bolton isn't on that llist of preps.
Hypocrites! Now isn't that the crow calling the raven black.
Stinking Liberal
I like that
My new bumper
Sticker.
Several US Army officials...those liberal radicals...in the army legal system have stated that what was done was torture; they don't have the clout of being a court, but the opinions continue the common sense read that an investigation is needed. Several Spaniards were recipients of the typical treatment, which a court might legally one day deem torture with consequent punishments. These Spaniards weren't tried in any court themselves to determine if they were guilty of any crimes. People in the Bush administration stated the rationales for the torture. Now they may be held accountable. Where's the controversy? On a related note, we do not want our own soldiers or nationals in other countries snatched/detained without charges, legal counsel, communication with family, and treated with the harsh measures we have meted out; we should not do the same to others.
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exactly!
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um you think this has something to do with race? thats kinda a stretch
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In the immortal words of Detective McGarrett:
Book 'em Danno!
Gonzo should learn a lot from the experience of being brought to justice by a Spanish court. He clearly did not understand the meaning of the word, justice, while he was head of the Department of Justice. Serves him right for putting loyalty to Bush ahead of loyalty to the law.
Viva España!
I agree with Jelperman, Book'em Danno, now Gonzales, won't have to just worry about getting a job, worthy of his August talents! Send them to the Hague, keep them in the United States until we grow a set and indict them ourselves!!! Travel will be increasingly difficult for these fools!!! Thank you Spain!!!
Hate to tell you but Obama has the same policy about terrorists. He made a public comment about rescinding it,while signing an order that left loopholes wide enough for the same practices to be done. Tell you what-when our guys in the military find terrorists-lets just shoot them on sight-all problems solved.
You're right on both counts.
Seeing as how the USA is the biggest exporter of terrorism since the end of WWII and therefore, the world's greatest terror state, how about we just treat all Americans as terrorists and "just shoot them on sight - all problems solved".
Huh? We have freed 500 Million People since WW2
Oh, so miss Taylor has the inside scoop on what Obama's REALLY thinking and doing. Wow...can I get a line on that?
Maybe Obama gets a little more info in his daily security briefing than you get with your morning Fox news.
Thank you.
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