Blogs and Stories
The GOP Revolt
Al Behrman / AP Photo
John Avlon reports from the scene of New York's tax-day "tea party," where some of the craziest elements of the right were trying to find their voice. And look, it's Newt Gingrich!
A kaleidoscope of the modern conservative movement lined both sides of Broadway beside New York’s City Hall Park last night. There were libertarians, traditionalists, free-marketers, middle-class tax protesters, the more-patriotic-than-thou crowd, conservative shock jocks, frat boys, suit-and-tie Buckley-ites, and more than a couple of requisite residents of crazy-town. And Newt Gingrich.
The tea parties on Tax Day offered a perfect confluence for conservative populism: a Founding Father-sanctioned rebellion against big government combined with the age-old frustration of paying taxes, especially during a recession. Compared with the average G-20 or WTO protests, the New York rally was a model of civil disobedience. Instead of anarcho-punks leaving broken windows in their wake, there were American flags, country music, and repeated reminders to pick up trash before leaving the site.
Some signs were unexpected, such as “Obama = Bush lite.” When I asked about the underlying logic, a man explained, “Obama was elected with the promise of change and then pursued the same failed policies of Bush’s fiscal irresponsibility.”
But there was a righteous, unhinged anger beneath it all. Conservatives are already having a mass Howard Beale moment—they are mad as hell and they’re not going to take it anymore. And it’s only the 86th day of Barack Obama’s presidency.
A sampling of the signs seen in the crowd: “What’s the Difference Between Obama and Chavez?” [Answer: “Nothing.”]; “IRS: Treat me like you treat Geithner”; “Ali Obama and the 40 Thieves”; “Free Markets not Free-Loaders”; “Hitler was a Socialist Too.”
There were whole families on parade, such as the father carrying the American flag with an image of John Wayne emblazoned on it, followed by three children with pint-size “Don’t Tread on Me” flags (a sentiment which also doubled as a crowd-control notice).
Some signs were unexpected, such as the Ron Paul-ite whose sign read “Obama = Bush lite.” When I asked about the underlying logic, he explained, “Obama was elected with the promise of change and then pursued the same failed policies of Bush’s fiscal irresponsibility.” At least he kept the chronology consistent.
But when I saw the giant placard which read “Hussein = Commie,” the time had come for some counseling. The guy holding the sign looked like he could have come over on the subway from Williamsburg, wearing a hoodie, sunglasses, and an iPod. I asked him if the sign was serious. Oh, yes. “Every time he opens his mouth he spouts textbook Marxism, communism, socialism,” said the man who initially gave his name as “Barry Soetoro”—Obama’s name when he lived in Indonesia as a child. After some prodding, it turned out the protester was named Ted Houvouras, a Manhattan real-estate executive with a degree in economics from Georgetown. The pedigree didn’t make his analysis any more persuasive, but it hammered home one point clearly: Hating President Obama has already become a cottage industry for a hard-core fringe, as it was for Clinton après-Monica and Bush after the invasion of Iraq.
Despite the president’s broad popularity, the hyper-partisan fever that has afflicted our nation for more than a decade has not yet broken. It is being pumped up in the self-segregated partisan echo chamber every day—and in the search for political purpose or just an outlet for economic anger in a recession, a narrative has taken hold that the Obama administration is dedicated to overturning bedrock principles of American culture. Against this backdrop, weeping warnings about how we’re drifting toward tyranny and the need to “take our country back” start to make sense to some folks.
When speakers extolled the virtue of “individual responsibility,” the crowd roared—the billion-dollar bailouts having trumped any memory of the president’s call for a “new era of responsibility” in his inaugural address. But plenty of strawmen were evident in the tea party speeches as well—when one radio host asserted “we are told that if the few prosper, the many will suffer,” he was riffing off still potent anti-communist playbooks, not current White House policy. And when Christian conservative radio personality Jordan Sekulow decried “cutting funding for our troops,” it seemed like he hadn’t bothered to read the budget he was attacking.
The Right Dumps Carrie
Jacob Bernstein is a senior reporter at The Daily Beast. Previously, he was a features writer at WWD and W Magazine. He has also written for New York magazine, Paper, and The Huffington Post.
What's Joe's Problem?
Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
Geithner's Stock Plummeting
Jeff Madrick is a contributor to the New York Review of Books and a former economics columnist for the New York Times. He is editor of Challenge Magazine, visiting professor of humanities at Cooper Union, and senior fellow at the New School's Schwartz Center for Economic Policy Analysis. He is the author of Taking America, The End of Affluence (Random House) and The Case for Big Government.
Wingnuts of the Week
John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
The Next Wingnut Attack
John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
Glenn Beck's Mob Rule
John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
Ahhh, prophesy fulfilled. Don't you love it! "No more money for Banks and No more money for Autos will prove alot sexier after the fact." Perhaps now you might also see the fulfillment of that 'other idea', the mass layoff of civil servants and Police, simply because their services are irrelevant to the economy. They are 'overhead', you know.
Did you like the previous predictions about Bank Hoarding and Auto Bankruptcy, crafted from the hands of Keynes and his theory of 'animal spirits"? You're going to love to know that this 'downturn/recession/depression' will last another 8 years.
Yea I don't think most of these people are considering the consequences of the other options that were on the table or why all the options are bad in the first place.
As far as I can see this mass of people were far than homogeneous. Heck I would have been out there protesting the bush taxes on tax day and welcoming the coming Obama taxes (thats kinda the point of protesting this tax day since the rates are still bush) if I thought that it was what people would think I was standing for.
I think FOX and co are going to try and take credit for a lot of this and re label a lot of what people were really out there to say. In the end the whole tea party reenactment thing was started by ron paulers not FOX brand people.
We obviously can dismiss the message of crazies calling obama a fascist or the ones who don't notice that social security and medicare are socialist programs. But we do need to address the rumblings of the other people who were there. Some people even came out to push for disclosure and torture trials, its sad that FOX is going to count them as pro FOX/Limbaugh brand conservatism.
EILamer; I agree with what your saying, but there's an elephant in the room we're not addressing. we the people are the government, and what we witnessed yesterday was a example of this. unfortunately it represented context without content, and what I feel is the underlining angst in the crowd; some just can't see a black man as their boss their President, for example David Dukes threatening to remove his constituency from the GOP because of Micheal Steel. There are a million reasons to bail on Michael Steel but that aint one.
Our country is like a grand banquet table at which only a select few are allowed to dine. As coldly as Mat Damons replies to Joe Pescie's in , "the good shepard", we live here and your just visiting, that same reply holds true for a vast amount of people in this country, Obama king of the welfare refraft, skulked in through the back door and now he thinks he's running the joint. they are insulted to the core of their being that a black man has pulled up position at this grand table and is calling the shot's and watching basketball while reclining in the white house.
This image to some is a violation, and someone has to call attention to it, and that in the same crowd there are some who believe his election represents a precursor to the end of days......................this is madness! Not the angst for taxes, but the underlining contempt a lot of people feel for a man who has probably the most difficult job in the world. For me he's like a George Washington carver Character trying to convince a lot gumbies in the sunbelt to use crop rotation who can't be convinced because it's coming from a blackman -- what a joke.
Taxation without deliberation
Yes, the entire protest was hijacked by NEWSCORP. These were the same folks who lost the election. Why do Republicans vote against their best interest? To protest the tax increase was nothing more than supporting Sean the millionaire, Rush the millionaire,Dick Armey the millionaire to keep their tax cuts. They fooled many misinformed, disgruntled Americans.
This "tea party" crappola has Karl Rove written all over it. Yawn, just more manipulation of a television-addicted, gullible public that also believed the "reasons" they were fed for the U.S. invading Iraq.
Fox News pro-actively promoted this crap. Karl Rove is licking his chops for sure, but Fox had its own agenda.
You are undoubtedly right "joymars", I just suspect that since Rove is one of Fox's featured freaks, he may have suggested such an idiotic maneuver for them. These morons were even using, USING, children to wave their signs at motorists in my neck of the woods.
Unbelievable!
After asking where these folks were the last eight years their government wracked up a trillion dollar debt, how many of them were at these sophomoric gatherings. The "polarized" hyper partisan groups were actually very small.
The turn outs were embarrassing considering the weeks of hype by a major media outlet and all the drum beating. The number estimated nationwide for all rallies was about the size of one Obama rally in Manassas, PA -- in the rain or a Garth Brooks concert.
Nate Silver @ 538 -- pretty good with numbers -- posts official crowd estimates. 50 people in Newark, 100 showed up in Cedar Rapids Iowa, Phili had about 200, The biggest crowds were 1000-4000. San Antonio was supposedly the very biggest, drawn by Glenn Back, but it was only 10,000. They would only have filled a quarter of the Met's new stadium.
lizzie, thanks for posting those numbers.
I think it is more than curious that you made no mention of Fox News... they have been one of the GOP propaganda organ for many years. Have you forgotten the 2000 election? A grassroot movement is not organized, sponsored, promoted and MC'd by a pseudo news channel and it's anchors. Do you happen to work for FOX?
Cosign. Fox News, and particularly Lachlan Murdoch, Rupert's heir apparent (who is one of these extreme libertarians) was pro-actively promoting this farce.
He's also behind the ascendancy of Glenn Beck. That nut!
What bothers me is when people think a personality like Beck is THE driving force. There must always be a business agenda behind such showbiz acts. And in this case it's Lachlan Murdoch.
Do you know how to tell the difference between "real grassroots" and "artificial turf" demonstrations?
The "grassroots" demonstrators carry HAND-written signs. The "artificial turf" demonstrators' signs are professionally printed. Whenever -- and only whenever -- you see professionally-printed "protest signs", you know you are looking at an artificial-turf demonstration backed by wealthy outside organizers.
Looking at photos of tea parties across the nation I noticed some thing missing----it was a black face. That brought me to the conclusion that the rallies were an expression of anger not against government policies but an African American being elected president. It is shameful and proof that Racism is alive and kicking.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
Perhaps you should examine why it is that there are so few Black Conservatives.
A kneejerk response of "racism" misses a lot, as it does in most other cases involving race.
good point!
Its not about racism. It's about individual responsibility. Draw your own conclusion.
Agreed, throwing around accusations of racism accomplishes nothing. Its not that the themes of individual responsibility and social and fiscal conservatism are not valued in the african american community. Those values are simply expressed differently. There are many socially conservative african americans ( I'm not though, I tend to be socially moderate ). There are many who are fiscally conservative as well, more than you might think.
That doesn't mean that they will choose to solve problems in the same way that the Republican party would. Personally I find those solutions to be a bit lacking in compassion for the common man.
That's what's so insidious about the various "isms" of the vilest sort. Those practicing them cannot recognize it when they do. Racism is now a dirty word in America, its practice is not;-(
There are plenty of black conservatives. The problem is that Republicans have abandoned conservatism for race-baiting, culture warrior stuff.
Small government, personal responsibility, individual liberties. These concepts are universal. The Republicans have spent the past eight years playing fast and loose with these ideals for short-term political gain.
Today the best conservatives are Democrats.
melpol - Didn't anyone ever tell you that "correlation does not prove causation"?
For 99.9% of the tea party participants racism had absolutely nothing to do with their attendance. I know the people who attended the local tea party. They are not racists. They are big hearted, generous salt-of-the-earth types.
If you want to look for racism, please answer me this - an incredibly high percentage of African Americans voted for BO - a far higher percentage than any other ethnic group. Does this prove that, in general, African Americans are racist?
You know people who attend tea parties who are "big hearted and generous".
They claim anybody "down on their luck" which could be for a variety of reasons are welfare lazy freeloaders. They don't want to help anyone out of a bad financial situation. They want banks to fail so no one can get credit. Half of them are collecting social security from the Socialist President of this so call Socialist country. They can't appreciate or say "Thank you" for the tax break Obama gave them. Also they can't accept the Democratic way of America. We elected Obama by a majority and they want to overthrow that decision.
This how you view "generous and good hearted"
You state that racism is alive and kicking. Do you have any evidence that anyone was excluded due to their race ,or any other reason ? Or is your statement an attempt to inject a lie into the debate ? To my knowledge anyone was welcome at these gatherings.
You are ridiculous. How about this statistic: More than 90% of black Americans voted for Obama. Were he not black, would that stat been more than 2/3 of that number? What is racism, again?
MTFinch
More than 90% of African Americans vote for any Democrat who's running for President.
Racism is the millions of white Americans who voted against Obama because he's Black. Hopefully I answered your question.
This lib author actually came closer to truthful reporting about the TEA parties than any other I've seen on the usual liberal (a liberal by any other name (including "progressive"), is still a liberal, which usually means a strident "all means necessary" socialist.
Early on, he almost lost it: to quote:
'"But there was a righteous, unhinged anger beneath it all."
I think that "righteous, unhinged anger" is accurate, because most of these people didn't know what they were demonstrating about, other than "spending" or inarticulated rage about Barack Obama being black. Oh, yes, and "socialism," although I'll bet 90% couldn't define it.
There was a clip of a guy who got the mike as a speaker at the function in Pensacola, FL, who dropped on the crowd that their taxes are going to decrease under BHO, and they shouted him down because they didn't believe it. Priceless.
GentlemanJim
I don't know what about this article made you think the author is Liberal. He sounds pretty Conservative to me. That tea party just put Republicans deeper in the tank!! The Party can't succeed with a bunch of screaming "white people" and no other demographic.
I actually think Newt Gindrich is starting to "get it"
People who call themselves "conservative" have a tendency to characterize all others who don't actively support the far right as "liberals." Hence, the "lib" mainstream media and "fair & balanced" Fox News.
What a hoot.
PS: I believe that the right to civil disobediance is essential to any democracy. I also believe that people that intentionally pollute the environment for what ever reason should be brought to trial along with the people that promote the crime in the first place. Last I heard there are fines and more severe penalties for littering in most states.
How does the expression go... ? Any individual's liberty ends where it impeeds the liberty of others. Isn't the environment supposed to be a bipartisan issue? Isn't it taxpayers money that is used to clean up trash left by thoughtless people?
I agree totally. We should start with all the people from the Obama inauguration!
http://www.wric.com/Global/story.asp?S=9706515
I am embarrassed for the Daily Beast for having printed this.
One boring discussion of how ginned up this whole movement was is here, but there are many others.
Worldwide, more than 10 million people protested the Iraq War, compared to less than 10 thousand here. The news coverage of both is Yet Another Damning Indictment of the media.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/freedomworks-long-history-of- teabagging.php
Estimated at 200,000 for the entire the country. Still pitiful.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/how-many-attended-tea-parties.htm l
Yes the numbers are small when compared to the truly grassroots movement behind the Obama presidential campaign.
al-nafs-
The real differance is that these people were there because they wanted to be there and many of those for Obama were paid and had to be bused in from out of state areas. That 200,000 number only accounted for those that could get there and not for the rest of those who couldn't get off work to be there.
Grundy, that's bullshytt and you know it. Which show on Fox News did you get those "facts" from?
I whole-heartedly disagree.
This is was a fair column looking at the tea party protests with an equal dose of skepticism and sympathy. The author has a good grip on reality, which is more than can be said for most writers on this issue, regardless of their politics.
Kudos to John Avlon for this piece. It's illuminating.
"But there was a righteous, unhinged anger beneath it all."
Unhinged??? Really??? All of those under-ten kids were "unhinged" with anger?? All those soccer moms & dads were "unhinged" with anger?? Couldn't find an actual example of this "unhinged anger" to cite, but hey, let's not let reality interfere with a good sound bite for his media interviews to follow.
But, to the author's credit, he did recognize the risks inherent in liberals (neo-progressives?) ignoring the underlying basis of the TEA Party movement. He saw that the emotion and intents were honest, sincere and ready to engage the political process. I respect that degree of intellectual honesty, which is unusual on these pages.
The Dems truly can't resist repeating all of the same mistakes of the early Clinton era, which led to the repudiation of the 1994 elections. Not surprising, since the Obama Administration is composed mostly of Clintonista retreads. Nor is it surprising to see Obama make short shrift of his bipartisanship promises--not that any experienced observers were taken in by it. It did, however, sway enough younger voters to help bring the election.
The bottom line?? I credit John Avlon with writing a more-balanced article than I have seen on any other liberal (neo-progressive) blogs. He comes closer to getting it than others. But when he falls back on the party line of decrying and riding the speakers and mocking the attendees, he is missing the very thing that most Republicans (not to mention Mrs. Clinton) missed duing the early days of Obama's primary campaigns: He successfully brought into the process a new segment of the electorate, in numbers greater than we'd had since at least the early 1970s anti-war college voters.
What you are missing now is that Mr. Obama has successfully convinced a huge, untapped market of voters that he is putting the future of their children and grand-children at extreme risk with his policies of "spend now, tax and tax later" and massive government intervention (read: nationalization of industries to achieve long-term government control) into free markets.
These folks have come convinced that if Obama isn't a dyed-in-the-wool Communist, he most certainly is a strident socialist, and his policies are enacting exactly that agenda. These folks are smart enough to have seen numerous countries go the socialistic/communistic route over the last 80 years...none of them "successfully" for more than a few decades, because in the end, socialism and communism destroys the economy it conrols...and with it, the freedom and quality-of-life of the citizenry.
These are not the same folks just wearing new clothes. These are now entrants, new voters, newly committed.
Most of them don't actually own guns...but can read the history of gun control in Nazi Germany and see the value in supporting the 2nd Amendment. They're smart enough to see that gun registration is nearly always, virtually 100%, followed by graduated steps towards control and, eventually, confiscation. And they don't trust folks like Nancy Pelosi with that power.
These folks see the wisdom of free markets, understand the business cycle, and recognize the damage Obama & Co. are doing to same. They don't trust Dems/Libs/Neo-Progressives to deliver government-run health care systems that are ANY better than that seen in Australia, Great Britain or Canada--they can see the damage that has wrought.
I could go on, but the remaining points can be extrapolated.
So, be afraid, Dems & Liberals & Neo-Progressives. Not because the conservatives are going to grab their guns and hunt you down in the streets (a false and ludicruous premise promulgated due to some likely Freudian fears of their liberal hearts). But because Obama, Reid & Pelosi are overplaying their hand to such an extent that 2010 is not going to go very well for the Democratic Party.
Go ahead--continue painting conservatives with Nazi-style "intelligence analysis" reports painting anyone that is pro-life, pro-2A, pro-limited government or pro-fiscal responsibility as an "angry right-winger." You're fooling yourselves. And such tactics directly parallel Hitler's early efforts to marginilize and blame Jews for the problems that Germany faced--the people do recognize them for what they are. Adopting such Nazi-style tactics or short-term misperceived gains will only cause the 2010 repudiation to be that much stronger.
Dude, Dems aren't talking about gun control as a national platform. And as far as I know, Obama hasn't said a word about it. Democrats know it's a political loser and have more or less dropped it.
Republicans keep railing about it but their the only ones talking about it at all. Same with welfare. But the only president to ever curtail welfare was a Democrat.
You're arguing passionately with someone who's not even in the room. This is what's meant by "unhinged."
Spin! Spin! Spin! You worked for Rudy. 'Nuf said.
What does that infer - had Rudy been on the ticket it would have been an entirely different ball game. Nuf said for sure!
Cforchange, do you really think Rudy would have done anything quite different. Rudy's campaign was a disastor. It was poorly managed. Full of wacky sound bites. Short on fresh ideas. Lotsa pander. And most people recognized he wasn't the man cause few voted for him. No conspiracies. Just no votes from registered Republicans.
What tarryh no votes in Iowa - who cares!! That's just another thing that needs fixed. Rudy's 12 point plan pretty much covered everything that turned out to be relevant to the majority that elected a new prez. Rudy would have been expert at communicating it had the GOP of the south been agreeable to give him the support he deserved.
This was an urban vote and it will be for a long time to come. But in the mean time just waive your Tetley about put Newt up on the podium and there goes the GOP into the deep dark woods.
I'm not sure who the author is.
The largest crowds gathered when they knew there was a right wing personality or Press coverage. Many organizers lied about the size of the rallies.
I agree with a previous comment on this story. Fox News promoted this thing for months. My opinion is there are 300 million Americans. 130 million voted and 58 million voted Republican. After all the hype that went into this thing they could only get 250,000 people to attend in the entire U.S.A. (that estimate is high). I think that's pathetic.
I prefer to vote Republican, but the party is filled with these people with "crazy" ideas they get from high personality individuals who just pump them up.
How can Republicans win with a small "group" of angry white people? These people are out of touch with the 2009 version of America.
yweston: "How can Republicans win with a small "group" of angry white people? These people are out of touch with the 2009 version of America."
*****************************
My hope would be that your "2009 version of America" would not support criticizing any group based on its race.
Agreed, there is far too much focus on race and conservatism. Its not about the race, its about social and class differences. Unfortunately, when discussing those issues, it becomes all too easy to introduce the topic of race as either an explanation or justification of those differences.
I am proud to be an American today.
I gathered with 600 others here in the bastion of liberalism that is Massahcusetts......600 well behaved and patriotic Americans. No unrest, no embarassing displays. There were soccer moms, senior citizens, blue collar workers and dads with suits and ties. No big republican donars, no politicians, just the voices of my neighbors and members of my community.
Liberals have perfected the idea of protest, but their tolerance only extends to their own demonstrations. You do not tolerate dissent unless it is your own.
This is the essence of America, the right to gather and have our voices heard. Rather than unhinge you, it should make you proud to live in a country that gives you----and your neighbor---a voice.
Thank you for this rather honest and unbiased report of yesterday's events, Mr. Avlon. I still have hope for America...
As another poster said, where were you while Bush was racking up a trillion dollar debt? Oh, that's right, you conservatives only tolerate the government spending tax dollars like a drunken sailor when they're in charge.
I'm confused.
Were there tanks and riot police on the streets during your rallies, forcibly driving you back to your homes and arresting leaders?
No?
So how are Liberals 'not tolerating dissent?' When you guys get riled up and driven onto the streets by firebrand populists like Glenn Beck and Santelli, Liberals call you silly and dismiss your point of view as irrelevant. You know why? Because you're acting silly and you're frankly irrelevant.
The original Boston Tea Party was about taxation without representation. If those that had participated knew that you people were out on the streets because of a 3% increase in taxation for those making over $250,000 at the behest of an overwhelmingly popular and democratically elected President... they'd roll over in their graves.
Irrelevant? Change is a-comin'!!
Your 3% on those earning more than $250K won't last for long. You actually think that your taxes won't go up after all this spending?
You are among the idiots who think these protests are about that particular tax increase. This is about the trillions in spending, the government interventions, and the drift toward socialism.
They would roll over in their graves? Maybe, but only at your post.
So, it wasn't about tax increases, but "impending" tax increases?
When 95% of Americans got a tax break? When 40% of the stimulus plan was tax breaks not new spending?
For this people felt the need to throw tea bags at the white house?
Look, if you're going to be anything other than a marginalized minority party you're going to have to do a better job of communicating a coherent message.
One of the things that most Americans held against the Bush administration is that they didn't seem to have a "reality-based" approach to the world.
It seems that the "conservative movement" is content with proceeding along the same lines.
If they were sincere in their own ideas, the truth is they became fools being used by Fox News and Dick Armey.
How is dissent not being tolerated? Noone is shutting down conservative talk radio, as was previously feared. Police were present at some locations as they usually are for the protection of the public at any large demonstration, but it was very well organized and peaceful.
There was no clash yesterday, no fight. Why try to stir one up on the internet the next day? Why are you not talking about the reasons behind your demonstration?
Talk about your ideas. Maybe I will agree with you and vote that way next time. I'm not exactly a fan of one party rule.
Frankly
Margot
It was embarrassing
To watch middle-aged
People
Hanging tea bags
On their
Ears
Protesting their
Rate of taxation
Which had
Just gone
Down.
ritarita; no one ever conveyed it sweeter. you made me laugh!
Rita
Rita,
Be
Sure
To
Tell
Me
When
My
Tax
Rate
Goes
Down.
Not
Yet.
And
Fill
Me
In
On
How
It
Ever
Will.
MTFinch
I thought
You had to be
18
To post here.
Hey, Finch: You need to figure out metre. It's a little more than stacking single words on top of each other.
I see people have already commented that only a quarter of a million people attended these moronic events, which was going to be my comment.
This is not a "movement" as much as it is a chance for right-wingers to feel good about themselves. They have no real reason to hate our President or the job he's done so far, it's exactly what he campaigned to do, and a good majority of the know so little about taxes (which are going down) and deficits (which, admittedly, are going up) that it's just a big crock of shit.
The Daily Beast hasn't exactly been he site I wanted it to be when i started reading it, but this article is just trash. Don't jump on the hype-bandwagon with the rest of the media when these events are too small to merit this kind of coverage.
Yeah, millions of hard working Americans exercising their right to to be heard are morons.....
No real reason? How about the trillions spent in a matter of months? How about locking a future of higher taxes? How about attempting to put government into many places where is was not before?
He is not doing what he campaigned to do - at all. I love your point "taxes (which are going down) and defecits (going up)". Seriously, what do you think will be the result of his policies? Lower taxes? Not yet, and not possible. I think it is YOU who doesn't know much about taxes, or the cost of inefficient government, or how Obama is coming up with this money he is spending.
I dismiss yesterdays Tea Parties and everyone involved, at my own peril.
The same nutbags hollering for no taxes, were screaming for pirate blood yesterday, wanting Obama to let the military invade Ethiopia. This over a situation that went well, but apparently the slight of having an American captured was too much for their fragile egos to bare.
You can't have no taxes and invade Ethiopia. Bombs, bullets, and Navy SEALs cost money to use. These people have no coherent thought from one minute to the next.
They're OK if their taxes go to war, but they are not OK if their taxes go to social programs and making our civil safety nets work. They see everything that isn't military spending as "socialism."
State and local taxes would have to go through the roof if they had their way about the Federal level. But they don't want to pay ANY taxes! The biggest problem the state of CA faces today stems from the Proposition 13 (interesting number!) tax revolt back in the 80's. Everyone wants services and good schools, but no one wants to pay for them.
Joymars, that's very well put. Nobody wants to pay taxes, but responsible adults know we have to, if we want to have police, fire departments, libraries, etc. Is there a lot of waste in the federal government? Absolutely. Elected officials are responsible to their constituents to bring home the bacon, so to speak.
I don't think too many people making over $200,000 attended the tea events yesterday, other than TV crews.
California is a poorly run state. It should be the wealthiest state in the country, but it will be the first to go truly bankrupt. I don't think you have any idea why, especially since you think the biggest reason is any one thing.
You are wrong often, and very wrong here. People are happy to pay for their schools and their roads. I am not happy to pay for my neighbors mortgage, or the bailouts of greedy companies, or for the losses that our government will incur by taking over privately run businesses like Sallie Mae. That is what these people are protesting. Our country was founded with a tax system in place, and it was founded as a capitalist Republic. That is what these people want to keep. You, on the other hand, do not even realize that you are supporting a drift away from that toward socialism. Yes, you are.
Isn't "providing for the common defense" of our nation a bit socialist as well? Why are conservatives not arguing for individual responsibility for our personal defense?
Oh wait, the state militias are part of the National Guard.
The mantra is low taxes no matter what the obligation is, in other words, I don't want to pay my share no matter what it is.
The problem is, 40-plus percent of Americans DON'T pay their "share" or any share at all. Also, who defines what each person's fair share is and how?
Well, generally, if you're strong you should help the weak.
But as for that 40 percent number you cited, where did you get that? Do you even know if it's true? And have you ever heard of payroll taxes?
Taxes
Pay for civilization.
It's not really
About wanting
Or not
Wanting.
Why are Liberals and their media so terrified of, and dismissive and hateful toward, these people? Most of them are average, hard-working Americans who are lawfully protesting. I just don't get the vitriol and spite. If these people mean nothing and their concerns about BOTH political parties, taxes, big government, and monstrous trillion-dollar debt are warrantless, then why get so worked up about their Tea Parties? Let them have their day . . . or two or three. The Liberals and their media are in power, so what does it cost them to behave in a benevolent and respectful manner? Forget sore losers; from my perspective, Liberals and their media are beginning to look like sore (and elitist and angry) winners.
It would help if these people made any sense at all.
They are the ones spewing hate and ignorance. If they demonstrated for a positive, constructive platform people would take them seriously.
Agreed. While these demonstrations were peaceful, the statements made at the rallies were not very well informed. Hatred is not constructive. You will be judged ( by your fellow citizens ) based on what you can create, not how much you hate.
If you're trying to convince people to vote your way in the next election, these tea party demonstrations were a poor way to go about it.
Because these peaceful, loving people were wearing t-shirts that pictured the POTUS as Mao. Because they were waiving signage that came straight out of a right-wing playbook and had absolutely nothing to do with reality. Because from what I saw on TV, almost everybody who was there (excluding perhaps TV people) is currently getting a TAX CUT under Obama. Because those who are not getting a cut, but whose taxes will increase when Bush's cuts expire, are reverting to a tax level that is less than it was under Reagan.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, becuase none of the protesters that I saw were protesting the vast number of loopholes that the super rich use to NOT pay their share of taxes, nor were they protesting the mega corporations who do the same thing. Becuase they were not protesting people who have so much money that they can afford to hide it in offshore accounts and they were not protesting corporations that grow fat by shipping jobs overseas.
There's more, but that's enough.
Right, and you libs didn't hate Bush....you don't see hypocrisy in your statements?
Exactly. The "Enlightened Ones" are so disappointed by Americans today. I guess I am "mis-remembering" the pictures of Bush as a monkey.
Of course "us libs" dislike Bush---he was the worst president in modern times. But Connie47 gave you FACTS in answer to Sahas's question--read her post again. Jeez.
I think the reason why people are upset about Tea Party Gate is that the powers that be took advantage of the people who are not well informed on the issues (i.e. bailouts, taxes, the stimulus plan, the budget, etc.) and attempted to use their bitterness for their own political gains.. i bet you a good majority of the people who attended these tea parties have no idea what socialism, marxism, or communism means, did not read the budget, or fully understand why it was NECESSARY to bailout the banks...i will bet money on that...the real enemies are the ones who know better but continue to allow their constituents to wallow in ignorance....like obama said they use issues like the 2nd ammendment, low taxes, and religion to basically control these people and its very sad...
The main reason I get angry with the right wing is they are so ill informed. They are being used to pay the taxes that the upper tax brackets should have been paying. And they sit still for the estate (nee death) taxes to be avoided by wealthy families as the means to avoid capital gains taxes. Indeed, some property owned by wealthy families has never been taxed.
And then they wrap all of their lack of knowledge in the cloak of jingoism, cheap sloganeering, and pejorative name calling, usually aimed at Barack Obama because he is black. It's incredible.
What Matt, when you call the president un-American, that's rank ugliness? I'll tell you what and this goes for anyone reading this blog. I voted for Barack Obama and I am very sorry I did. Should voted for Ron Paul (I'll never vote republican after the last 8 years). He has went back on EVERY promise he made to the American people. He has continued bailing out the rich, he has continued the Bush policy on secrecy concerning torture, hell, he even lied about the pet he was going to get. He has bad-mouthed this country to every foreign dignitary and he even bowed to the Saudi king!! This man rules a country where misogyny is the rule. Women are subjegated, oppressed, killed for stepping out of line.
I hope every person in this country will stand against this tyranny that is ruling our country now. It is not just the right fringe fed up with all the new taxes, the continuous bailout of the rich. Every working class person in this country should be doing more than having peaceful tea-parties.
Our founding fathers did not have peaceful tea-parties. They fought for what was right. We need their spirt right now.
Ignoring the part of your post where your brain decided that reality wasn't fun enough anymore and just decided to make up things to be angry about (hint: the foreign policy section) here's a website you might find edifying:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/browse/
yeah, texas sure you voted for Obama. We believe you, no really we do.
It pains me to see Obama propping up the banks too. But I know in the rational part of my brain that if he didn't it would be a catastrophe of unimaginable proportions.
Your other comments show how un-supportive of Obama you completely are. Why don't you just admit it.
I hate to see the banks being propped up. I'd hate it even more to see them all fail. I don't like the fact that Obama has to do some of the things he's doing. But I am glad that he is doing it.
I wrote Matt, but I meant John.
The Redcoats Are Coming !
LOL!
They are already here and they bought the Sears Tower....did you guys here me...OUR FORMER CONQUERORS BOUGHT THE TALLEST BUIILDING IN AMERICA and they are changing the name to the Wilson building or something like that....the deal will be finalized this summer..i dont know about yall but i think this is the ultimate slap in the face..
They weren't our conquerers.
What the hell are you talking about? Yall.
I Thought America won? So we are not your conquerors?
With the amount owned by China & Arabs , why be bothered out a tower & the UK ?
America has over 50,000 troops in Europe , why not bring these troops home to help with your Mexican Border problem. So you have troops in Europe that do not need to be there , and your face is slapped because Britain bought a tall building?
BRITAIN OWNED AMERICA people
they bought the tallest buling in america...i wish you people stopped and thought about the symbolism behind this before you typed your dismissive comments from your respective high-horses...
Oh please.
Where were these whack jobs the last 8 years???.
Sahas24.
Just average working class Americans?.
I am an "Average" working class American and I think these folks are FOOLS. Yes they have a right but many of them voted for Republicans who BY FAR would much rather screw an "Average American" than their corporate benefactors. Yes the Dem's have plenty to answer to but do these bafoons realize the G.O.P. has done more to ruin the American way of life than the bank bails out's Obama HAD TO DO in order to stave off and even worse financial calamity?????.
I would wager MOST of them watch FOX noise, listen to Limbaugh, Coulter, etc.
What services would these " Tea Baggers" ( do they know what that means??) give up for less taxes?. Police, Fire, Ambulance, cheap gas, military, schools, courts and all the other services they take for granted?.
Most Americans are like the government, slightly corrupt, self serving and blame others when they don't get their way.
Once again I ask, why so terrified of, and dismissive and hateful toward, these people--and why debase yourself and your beliefs by calling people you don't even know "fools?"
muddog:
"Most Americans are like the government, slightly corrupt, self serving and blame others when they don't get their way."
But not you, right? You are better than that, I'm sure.
I will not disparage most Americans, but I will say that you show signs of ignorance. It is you who stands to be most "screwed" by the trillions in spending, inevitably higher taxes, government interference, and the devalued dollar. But you don't know that.
These people are not proposing to cut the Police or Fire departments. They are protesting the trillions spent to bail out greedy and foolish companies, and greedy and foolish home-buyers. How do you know he "HAD TO DO" this? Really, tell me how you know that. I believe that there were better ways than to saddle all of us and generations after us with the debt of the past FOUR MONTHS.
Re: your posts on this page.
Take your head out of that 60-year-old Poli-Sci 101 textbook you love so much and look around at the world. Socialism is a textbook concept. So is capitalism. Find out what "money as debt" means. Figure out how this present world actually works, and then your sophomoric posts will no longer appear in The Beast.
joymars:
Christ, you are unbearably ignorant. Please, tell me what "money as debt" means. I have read your answer to this question before, and it was wrong. You don't even make a point with this post, as usual. I would be surprised to learn that you are old enough to have graduated college, much less earned a degree.
Embers - My stats come from the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan institute run jointly by the Urban Institute and the Brookings Insitution. According to them, the top 5% of all payers pay more than half the INDIVIDUAL income tax-about 59.2 percent. 40% of Americans pay no income tax at all which is supported by the Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan tax research group that promotes transparency in the tax code. Let's be real, payroll taxes don't make up for the deficit--or the unfairness. EVERYBODY, no matter how little they earn, should pay something, even if it's only $1.
Those numbers should scare the heck out of you. Those are third world numbers. It means there is a huge gap in income between the rich and the rest of the country. That is never good for any country to have 2% holding all the wealth, it leads to instability. Now you see why we call you people fools.
Sahas24: Take a second and think about why so many people pay little or no income tax. Don't all those people belong in jail? Do we have a nation where 40% of the people are criminals withholding their taxes?
Maybe they have little or no income to be taxed. Maybe it would be a wise investment to make producers out of them by investing in those people. Spending money. Stimulating the economy. Creating jobs.
I agree with the idea of the government spending money to stimulate the economy. I want to be sure that the way it is implemented doesn't create long term dependence on the government.
Be realistic, not idealistic.
Got a link for that?
You don't have any numbers for the payroll taxes.
Yeah, nothing stifles innovation like an entrenched, hereditary aristocracy. But if those numbers you posted are real, well, then, it isn't hard to see what's wrong.
Go crawl back under your rock, you selfish bastard.
This user is no longer registered.
No, stevedenver, they do not want "NOTHING" done. And what do you know about Newt Gingrich? My bet is you couldn't articulate a single one of his proposed solutions to this problem. Not one of them is "do nothing".
I certainly can't articulate any of his proposed solutions.
Please, explain them to us.
Along the way, make sure you include a description of why debt was find under a Republican administration but is the road to ruin under a Democratic one.
Please also cover how to get the banks unfrozen.
If the solution that you propose is "tax cuts" in all cases, please explain in detail how tax cuts will help people who have no income.
Thanks,
The Libertarian Party was told they could not join the tea party protests if they had any signs against the Iraq War.
And who would make them take them down if they showed up with them?
I don't buy that.
lol the republicans would never use force to advance their cause
Pretty sure you are full of generalities or general shit.
I did enjoy the guy on CNN with a placard of Obama's face superimposed on Hitlers body, & his reply to the reporters question of " Why is he a fascist ? "............" Because he is"
And the guy next to him had a sign talking about Obama as a Communist. And neither one of them knew the difference between the two forms of government---just that they are "Bad, bad."
Thank you.
As a first time user, your comment has been submitted for review. It can take anywhere from a few hours to a day or two for your comment to be reviewed, depending on the time of week and the volume of comments we receive.
Please log in to leave comments.