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Come Out of Hiding, Bush
J. Scott Applewhite / AP Photo
The Pelosi briefing revelations underscore the cloud hanging over the past eight years. Former Ambassador Joe Wilson says a reticent President Bush should greet a torture probe with three familiar words: Bring it on!
George W. Bush has now raised $100 million for his presidential library. He clearly is of the view that he has a lot to be proud of and not much to be ashamed of. Why not clear the air on this torture question so that his reputation does not suffer further? Former CIA Director Mike Hayden is flat silly when he asserts that somehow we give our enemies comfort by divulging what we did when we were “terrified.” Transparency is a hallmark of our system of governance.
“Don’t they understand that the absence of transparency guarantees that there is a cloud over the Bush White House, just as Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald said there was a “cloud” over Vice President Dick Cheney after the conviction of his chief of staff, Scooter Libby, in the case involving the betrayal of the identity of a covert CIA officer, Valerie Plame Wilson, my wife?”
Yet former Bush administration officials and their defenders are increasingly shrill in their efforts to thwart either a domestic or an international investigation into their use of torture as an instrument of foreign policy. We have learned in recent days that waterboarding, a torture technique recognized as such since the Spanish Inquisition, was used on suspected al Qaeda terrorists, not to save Los Angeles from a nuclear attack a la the TV torture-porn series 24, but rather to provide substance to Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld’s fantasy that there was a link between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein to justify the invasion of Iraq.
We have also learned from video of Condeleezza Rice’s appearances at two schools that the administration was “terrified” in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, as if that were sufficient rationale for breaking U.S. and international law. Of course, she then qualified her response by adding that because the president authorized the actions, they must be legal, confusing the constitutional rule of law with the views of Louis XIV and Richard Nixon.
Finally, we have on The Washington Post editorial page former Representative to the United Nations John Bolton harrumphing that any investigation into war crimes or crimes against humanity under U.S. law and treaties to which the U.S. is signatory is simply “criminalizing policy differences” and is “both inappropriate and counterproductive.”
So what are the Bushies afraid of? If they did nothing wrong, or if they were misled by their attorneys, why would they fear shining the light of day on their foray to the “dark side?” Why do they lobby so hard, even out of office, to shape Justice Department internal inquiries if they really did nothing wrong? Don’t they understand that the absence of transparency guarantees that there is a cloud over the Bush White House, just as Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald said there was a “cloud” over Vice President Dick Cheney after the conviction of his chief of staff, Scooter Libby, in the case involving the betrayal of the identity of a covert CIA officer, Valerie Plame Wilson, my wife?
Rather than lobbying the Justice Department behind closed doors, George W. Bush and his team ought to welcome an official inquiry into their activities. For one, it would clarify what exactly happened on their watch and why. Second, the nation and the world would be able finally to move beyond the breathless debate over whether the United States condones action prohibited by both U.S. and international law, and coddles suspects in these crimes. What has Bush/Cheney brought us to that we could actually be having such a debate? Finally, it would put to rest all the speculation that the Bush administration might actually have committed war crimes.
The assertion on the table is that George Bush is the first president ever to authorize what George Washington outlawed during the Revolutionary War—torture. It is a serious charge and he should welcome an investigation. What does he have to fear? Whatever happened to “bring it on?”
Joseph C. Wilson IV served as ambassador to two African nations in the administration of George H.W. Bush, and as senior director for African Affairs for President Bill Clinton. He was in charge of the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad during the first Gulf War and was the last American diplomat to confront Saddam Hussein before Desert Storm. He is the author of the bestseller The Politics of Truth. He is married to former CIA officer, Valerie Plame Wilson, whose identity was betrayed by senior officials in the George W. Bush administration.
John Talks Joe
Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
Obama, the Un-decider
Lee Siegel has written about culture and politics and is the author of three books: Falling Upwards: Essays in Defense of the Imagination; Not Remotely Controlled: Notes on Television; and, most recently, Against the Machine: Being Human in the Age of the Electronic Mob. In 2002, he received a National Magazine Award for reviews and criticism.
Dick Cheney's Torture Hypocrisy
Joseph C. Wilson IV served for 23 years in the US Foreign Service, including as Ambassador to Gabon and Sao Tomé and Principe. After publication of his article, “What I Didn’t Find in Africa,” in the New York Times debunking the Bush administration’s rationale for the Iraq War, his wife’s identity as a covert CIA office was betrayed by senior administration officials. He is also the author of The Politics of Truth.
Push Cheney
Joseph C. Wilson IV served for 23 years in the US Foreign Service, including as Ambassador to Gabon and Sao Tomé and Principe. After publication of his article, “What I Didn’t Find in Africa,” in the New York Times debunking the Bush administration’s rationale for the Iraq War, his wife’s identity as a covert CIA office was betrayed by senior administration officials. He is also the author of The Politics of Truth.
No one could say it better, Mr. Wilson. Bring it on! Bush/Cheney have left more than a cloud over themselves and this country; they have left us, the people, sick at heart.
ah yes, ambassador wilson who nothing more than a pimp while he was stationed in africa. to call him a ambassador is a misnomer at least.
And shamed.
Bothg of you will be sh----ng yourselves in fear and whining about why no one in government did anything to thwart the next terror attack when it occurs.
scough-
The big one
Happened because
No one in government
Did anything to thwart it.
They ignored the intel.
Please explain how
You can do
A worse
Job.
debbieqd, YOU PEOPLE DONT HAVE A CLUE! WILSON ALWAYS HAS BEEN A NOBODY & A WANNABE IF THE TRUTH WERE KNOWN HE PROBABLY OUTED HIS OWN WIFE. BUSH & CHENEY KEPT US SAFE & THEY DESERVE YOUR GRATTITUDE.YOU PEOPLE NEED TO GET OFF THE KOOLAID!
Sir, I find it interesting that you continue to try to build your reputation on the coattails of your wife. If you and your wife are so concerned about "transparency" than I suggest that you get the CIA to open its books to "full disclosure". Mudslinging from behind cover must be satisfying, but is it "open"? If you are a devoted American, lets investigate everyone! There are a lot of fish to fry here, and lets have a BBQ! Congress is not only guilty here too, but worse, as they are involved in so many other things that line their pockets with money and undermine American values.
By the way, don't talk to me about International law, as those bozos have never lived up to anything within their own laws let alone anything in agreement with anyone at the U.N.
Lets all focus on America first. We have this thing called a Constitution, and NO ONE IN GOVERNMENT IS FOLLOWING IT RIGHT NOW. It is about time someone with the public ear as yourself, focuses your efforts on something bigger than your own ego, if that is possible.
Amen on this old coot riding his wifes coattails. He is just another media hog who has ridden his 15 min of fame about 3 hours too long. I guess he is retired and bored now, so he wants to call out the former president. I am a democrat who voted for President Obama, and NOT in love with George Bush, but Joe Wilson needs to sit down and shut up.
Joe....
No doubt your wife and numerous agents had their lives changed by the criminal acts of Vice President Chaney's office. The work you and various people have proven that this happened. I and many Americans have been outraged and terrified that this could really happen....
However....the subject in the above article. The large majority of Americans don't care if terrorists are tortured. Yes, it was wrong but lets move on. Nothing is gained by anyone going to jail. We needed to do everything in our power to keep this country safe. As they cut off our heads, we are worried if the rules were being followed.
Joe...please refocus your efforts and stop wasting time in the past. Go forward.
The problem isn't that terrorists were tortured it is that ALLEGED terrorists were tortured to find out if they were terrorists.
Many Americans are more terrified that we could become a nation of torturers for whatever cause. This is not a waste of time and anybody in any administration that authorized these kinds of techniques needs to be prosecuted and put away. If Pelosi knew and authorized it, she should be punished and the whole Bush family with Cheney and all their lawyers should be locked up forever for disgracing the United States. Nobody gets immunity on this except for people who unwillingly followed orders.
For once in this country, let's punish the people who gave the orders and not the poor schmucks who followed them. It is pretty clear in this case that these orders came from the very top.
Those who did the torture need to be sequestered and treated immediately for the phsychological damage that torturing another person does to the torturer as well.
Some commenters are saying that we should not prosecute because it would create an unhealthy precedent of administrations going after each other. Torture isn't a "policy difference" It is a crime and probably one of the worst crimes we have defined. And this isn't up to the president, it is up to his Justice Department. If a crime has been committed, especially one of this magnitude, it is their sworn duty to find it regardless of political affiliation.
The Democrats should not hesitate to expose this in the hopes that Republicans will make nice about their indiscretions later on. If the Republicans find something criminal to prosecute, they will prosecute it. Here's a hint, if you don't want to be prosecuted for doing something illegal, don't do anything illegal and don't count on the other party to look the other way if you do.
Dear Mordoormat,
These were not innocent people plucked off the sidewalk somewhere; these people were captured on the battlefield - they are enemy combatants! What you and half of the people on this blog forget is that were are in the middle of a war; whether you choose to believe that or not - we are! And more important than the issue of torture, is putting on trial for allegations of torture ANY adminstration, past or present. This is NOT what you do in the middle of a war! It is INSANE! It sends a CLEAR message to the enemy that we are very weak.
And aside from that, if an enemy combatant in our custody has info on ANYTHING to do with our national security, I want whatever administration is in office, to do whatever it takes to get the info. I'm one of those people who is NOT terrified that 'we could become a nation of torturers,' I'm funny that way; I value my country, her citizens, and her preservation more than I value any enemy combatant.
I am sad to say nothing will ever happen to Bush, Cheney or the rest of the Bush Crime Family. Barack Obama will simply not allow any of the Bush Crime Family to come before the bench of law. This nation simply does not have the courage to put these criminals up before the court of public opinion.
Nor will we see members of Congress be prosecuted (Pelosi, Rockefeller, etc) for their part. I think that Cheney did suggest that they "bring it on", and that's when the back peddling began. You know the old saying - "be careful what you pray for: you just might get it.........
You are so, so, so RIGHT!! Cheney DID say, 'bring it on - bring out ALL of the documents and LET'S SEE WHO KNEW WHAT AND WHEN THEY KNEW IT!I That is precisely when obama backed off on Bush and Cheney!! He did however, feel compelled to appease his henchmen, ACORN, ACLU and George Soros, so he threw them a bone, the lawyers who drafted the documents. Which is TOTALLY INSANE, since the lawyers were only doing their job!!! By obama allowing anything to go forward against these lawyers, is EXACTLY like your boss telling you to type up a draft of the office policies for him, and then 7 years later a new boss comes in and changes the office policies and then this new boss tries to have you arrested because you wrote the draft of the office policies 7 years ago for your former boss - YEAH, SOUNDS CRAZY RIGHT?!? Well it IS CRAZY, and this is what obama is doing!! But, if obama insists on the 'prosecution game' being played, I think that Pelosi should be first, since she is in a more dangerous position, because she is an active member of the administration.
Martyz42, you should be ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!!! The Bush ADMINISTRATION kept YOU, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR FRIENDS, and THE REST OF THIS COUNTRY SAFE from terror attacks since 9-11!!!!! AND DON'T YOU DARE FORGET THAT!!! And if you are too IGNORANT to ADMIT this, then maybe you just don't belong here!!
Must point out, as I often do when I read the clause "since 9-11", that had Bush "kept us safe" BEFORE 9-11, we wouldn't be having these discussions. Tell it to the families of the victims. I, personally, don't feel more or less "safe" with either president, but I do feel more hopeful about maintaining adherence to Constitutional principles under Obama.
orourke-
Perhaps you
Should consider a
Little shame.
Defending the useless
Idiots who willfully ignored
The intel that screamed
All summer long
Bin Laden is going to
Attack the U.S.
Instead Bush went
Down to the ranch
To cut brush.
Shame
Shame
Shame.
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Oh, when I saw coming out of hiding, I thoughtt he was getting a column on the Daily Beast.
Joseph C Wilson IV shows how corrupt little rich boys can be when they work for the government for fame and notoriety and not because they need the job. Before accusing anyone of "torture", he should read the memoranda and consult a dictionary.
Wilson is right, just like he was right in his NY Times Op-Ed piece on 7/6/03 which upset Dickie C. so much that laws were broken in their effort to punish the man who tells the truth they don't want to hear. Scooter wasn't acting on his own; he wouldn't fart without instructions from his best friend the VP.
Keep on shining the light on unpleasant truths until the full story of the Bush regime's torture debacle is public knowledge. Bush can run but he can't hide the facts forever.
DoctorB, Wilson is NOT right. Cheney DID INDEED say to 'bring it on.' He actually went further to say 'bring out ALL of the documents related to this matter, which will shed light on WHO KNEW WHAT AND WHEN THEY KNEW IT.' Which is precisely when obama changed his tune, because he knew that there ARE DOCUMENTS THAT PROVE that Pelosi and other Dems KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON (ALL enhanced interrogation methods) AND HAD NO OBJECTIONS!!
Oh, and by the way, real torture is pulling fingernails out with pliars, hooking testicles up to car batteries, breaking people's bones, gouging eyes out, cutting off fingers, toes and ears, etc. Torture is NOT placing someone in a room with a caterpillar!
Fortunately, qualified officials disagree with your personal definition of torture, as does history. Not to mention the treaty that Reagan signed into law.
As serious as the torture charges are, we'd be wrong to prosecute George Bush at. He may very well have committed a crime. But the precedent of the new president prosecuting the old president is dangerous. It's one of those slippery slopes. Political opponents could use the precedent to punish each other. It would allow for stacked decks. The new justice department would be able to go after the old justice department simply because they are from different parties. The Constitutional opportunity to impeach a President exists during his/her Presidency. Bush was not impeached, even though there were enough Democrats to do so. That's that. The prosecution of previous office holder would discourage highly talented people from running for office. It would intimidate current office holders from taking bold steps -- out of fear that the next President would try to punish him/her. An effort to prosecute the previous administration would interfere with the work of a current administration of solving today's problems. This is especially true in 2009. And it would make our current polarization seem like a walk in the park.
I agree with all your comments jackbutler5555, although I find it ironic that the republicans inpeached Pres. Clinton for messing around with an intern, and yet GWB walked away scott free after all he's done. Well, it's all water under the bridge now, so it's best just to move on. I hope we've all learned a valuable lesson here, it very well may be the best thing to let legal charges fall, but we still need to know exactly what Bush and his administration did under the guise of "executive power".
Clinton wasn't impeached for messing around with an intern. He was impeached for lying under oath about that incident. That's a big NoNo! Just ask Martha Stewert
Nancy Polosi had her chance to impeach George Bush, but she took it off the table the day she took office. Look it up. Can't stand that woman for that very act.
To DustyMills reply to my post re: Bush keeping us safe since 9-11. You said: had Bush "kept us safe" BEFORE 9-11, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
I say: Bush was only in office for 8 months when 9-11 happened. And although there was a CIA or FBI (can't remember which) operative who had, what he thought, was good intellinegnce about Bin Laden, he could not get through the layers of people surrounding Bush. Which is typical of every administration. However, President Clinton knew all about Bin Laden and even had the opportunity to kill him, and he chose not to. So the Bin Laden - 9-11 issues go back beyond Bush, because the planning for 9-11 began during Clinton's first term (that's a fact).
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This was an excellent comment. It demonstrates why prosecuting the pevious administration shouldn't and probably will not happen.
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Dear Mr. Plame, still struggling for people to notice you? Also, please remember to bring on an investigation of the "rendition" (torturing suspects in a third country) that happened during the Clinton years with full knowledge of Mr. Holder.
scough (what does that stand for?SwinefluCough?)
anyways, rendition is not "torturing suspects in a third country"... it is extradition for fugitives who are charged with a crime and sent back to country they did the crime in. From what I understand, what Clinton did was not the same as what Bush did. I believe Clinton used rendition per the description above. What Bush did was "extraordinary rendition" which is taking people you have in custody to a country who is known to use torture for the absolute purpose of avoiding the laws and treaties that define torture as illegal.
Now, if Clinton sent people to 3rd countries to be tortured, then fine, investigate it.
Ya see SwineCough, we libs don't care WHO broke the law. We want justice for ALL. We don't cling to our guns and bibles, put on blinders, stick our fingers in our ears and yell "la la la la". We say, shine the light baby!
What Mr.Wilson is saying to you and all you hysterical sore losers is... bring it ON.. Bring it ALL on! BRING it! Cuz we are not afraid of the truth. We can HANDLE the truth.
Nixon=Watergate
Reagon=IranContra
Bush/Cheney=Iraq, torture, illegal wire taps, etc... Bottom line: WAR CRIMINALS...
I see a pattern.
lmktacwa (what does THAT stand for?.......oh never mind, I'm above that!)
Anyway lmktacwa, Cheney DID INDEED say 'bring it on - bring out ALL of the documents and LET'S SEE WHO KNEW WHAT AND WHEN THEY KNEW IT!I That is precisely when obama backed off on Bush and Cheney!! Because obama knows that PELOSI AND MANY OTHER DEMS WERE BRIEFED AS TO EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON IN IRAQ - AND THEY DID NOT OBJECT!!! PERIOD!!!
At the risk of repeating myself, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED to call President Bush a war criminal!!!! President Bush kept YOU, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR FRIENDS and THE REST OF THIS COUNTRY SAFE from terror attacks since 9-11!!!!! AND DON'T YOU DARE FORGET THAT!!! MAYBE YOU JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!?!!
orourke-
You use the phrase
Since 9-11 a lot.
Think about what
It means.
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Y a w n.... Oh, I mean the only reason you're subjecting readers to this issue is because you hope any investigation will uncover something hideously embarrassing for the Bush administration. Deny that. Meanwhile, go get Nixon!
I would suggest the opposite...
that Wilson go into hiding.
But, I guess being a narcissistic half-man in the limelight is something he can't do without. Who is he without Bush around... nothing, a nobody. So I can see why he wants Bush to still be in the news... that way Wilson might be a "celebrity" and even justify his existence.
Go away Joe... hide out somewhere... preferably under your wife's skirt.
Bush will have to deal with Americans for the rest of his life. He has demonstrated that he is Oil first, America dead last. Whether or not he comes forward, the facts will continue to pour out.
Do you think he will go down the path of so many violent criminals and become a "Born Again Christian" hoping to wash history away with his "faith"?
He already is Born Again - that's why it's ok that he was a drunk driver and a coke-head but Clinton got grilled for smoking pot. When you throw your hands up and claim that God is in control, give up your own will and follow your "gut" because you think your feelings are somehow informed by God you get the nonsense of the Bush years.
you people really need to get off the koolaid!
Dear estcruzer, Please explain to me how Bush was 'oil first.' WHERE is all of this oil is Bush was 'oil first?' Why do we still have oil issues if Bush was 'oil first?!' Just wondering what FACTS you based your comments on.
At the risk of repeating myself again, President Bush kept YOU, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR FRIENDS and THE REST OF THIS COUNTRY SAFE from terror attacks since 9-11!!!!! 'American dead last' my butt! Grow up estcruzer.
orourke-
There it is again.
Since 9-11.
They blew it
And they blew it
With a lot of warning.
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I see you didn't like my original comment and failed to put it on your site. Are you afraid of differing views or another less biased view of the truth sir?
As I said before, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You have done more to expose your wife to the media than anyone. I suggest you ask that all the CIA information be declassified and then we really see who is truly telling the truth, and who is using the secrecy for personal gain or protection!
I find it amazing that all of you Liberals are crying foul against the Bush administration. Your tireless blogs and mindless efforts to embarrass a former president is without reason. First of all let's all remember that over 3,000 innocent people were killed by religious fanatics that have no concern for human life. Fanatics that have the pretense of some religious mandate. If you are looking for transparency why not ask this president about his explanation of transparency? This man is arrogant and incompetent. He has surrounded himself with nothing more than Clinton loyalists and law breakers.. Do you really think that Obama is the answer to George Bush? Do you really think that this man that sits at the White House is really some sort of deliverer? Give me a break. Obama is as much a liar and a deceiver as Pelosi, Franks, Reed and Dodd. You viciously condemn the Bush Administration and blindly lift up the incompetence of this president. George Bush has nothing to confess unless all the Democrats are willing to confess that they were privy to this information as well. Now I hear that Obama wants to release the detainees into the U.S. and have the taxpayers foot the bill for their existence. Do you really think you have the right to accuse Bush of any crimes when this president has single handily demoralized, demonized and enslaved the American way of life? Give me a break. And if you are not a Christian don't demonize them. Who are you do set yourselves up as judges as to what a Christian is? As for your description of George Bush's former life, well why not really consider this presidents former life as well. He calls himself a Christian for political purposes only. He sat in a church for over twenty years to hear the ranting and ravings of some so called preacher who is racist and hateful.
Dear Pastor David, please take a deep breathe and a blood pressure pill.
The reason the issue of Bush and torture is being pursued very delicately, almost to the point of evasion, by the Obama administration (yes, he is being very slow and careful) is that opening up on Bush and torture would then demand opening up on Clinton and renditioning.
You sound like a serious person who considers himself a good Christian and who is indigent about the horror of 9/11. But you sound like you have been pushed so far over the edge that you no longer trust or value anyone. The stream of remarks herein does no service. Please reread your posting. You are drifting closer to Rev Wright than to the Lord. People of faith and righteousness should seek to be of service to humanity...all humanity even those whose minds are twisted or who have been manipulated by corrupt forces all their lives.
I would ask all of us who have become addicted to overblown indignation and derision, to fomenting discord and hate, to consider our words more carefully and speak as a righteous person would speak... with concern for the common good, rather than defaming those you do not agree with..
Obama does not demonize nor enslave us. We have done a good job of doing that to ourselves. Bush deconstructed almost the entire the Bill Of Rights. He destroyed our humanity when he opened the door to human rights abuse. The minute you start regarding anyone as less-than-human and say that they do not deserve protection under the law so that you then can torture, maim, abuse or kill them, you start down a slippery slope that ultimate leads to holocaust. And I never hear a good answer from any one claiming to be Christian (those I now call Christianoids), to the question, "who would Jesus torture?"
Please stop calling names. Stop segregating into liberal or conservative, innocent or guilty, and become a righteous man in service of your fellows in all your words and deeds.
Dear Mermaida, ARE YOU INSANE?!?!?!?!?!! Really, ARE YOU???!?!? If anyone needs to re-read their post my dear, it's YOU!! Talk about an '-oid' - you sound like an obamaoid!!!! Every single word you wrote in response to PASTORDAVID sounds like the words of a kool-aid drinker!! You are seriously going to call Bush an abuser of human rights??!? You're JOKING, right?!? And DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THE BILL OF RIGHTS - BECAUSE I CAN/AM WRITING A THESIS ON HOW OBAMA IS SYSTEMATICALLY CHANGING THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, RIGHT BEFORE OUR VERY EYES!! BUSH DID NOTHING TO THE BILL OR RIGHTS - NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!! AND I AGREE with EVERY WORD by PASTORDAVID!! OBAMA HAS ENSLAVED THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE, POSSIBLY FORVER! Obama does not believe in a capitalist free market, which is how this country grew to her greatness. Obama has enslaved the American way of life, by putting us TRILLIONS, AND TRILLIONS, AND TRILLIONS (10 TO 13 TO BE EXACT) of dollars in debt! Because of this debt, millions of Americans are enslaved from enjoying life as they once knew it. Especially retirees.
MAIMED??? MAIMED???? WE DID NOT MAIM PRISONERS!!!! I REPEAT, WE DID NOT MAIM PRISONERS!!! We put people in a cold room -- ooooh, scary! We deprived people of sleep -- ooooh, scary! We put people in a room with a caterpillar (my personal favorite!) - ooooh, really, really scary!! FYI, torture is: pulling out fingernails out with pliars, burning someone with a hot poker or branding iron, gouging eyes out, cutting off fingers, toes and ears, crushing kneecaps with a sledge hammer, breaking arms and legs, slicing the bottoms of people's feet with straight razors, etc. And if you can not see the difference Mermaida, then you are indeed a full-fledged kool-aid drinker!
And HOW DARE YOU remotely try to relate something like the holocaust with President Bush!!!!! You should be ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!!! The Bush ADMINISTRATION kept YOU, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR FRIENDS, and THE REST OF THIS COUNTRY SAFE from terror attacks since 9-11!!!!! AND DON'T YOU DARE FORGET THAT!!! But I'm sure that you are too IGNORANT to admit that!! I must admit that I don't quite understand this obssession that people like you have with President Bush - but it consumes your lives! You just can't let Bush go!?
orourke-
People can't
Let Bush 'go'
Because they are
Still shell-shocked
By his miserable
Incompetent performance
Which set the country
Back
60 years.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
Wow! I rest my case on Liberals. Whenever someone questions the current thought of the day well you always label us as some heretic. To be a Christian is a choice. No one is forced to believe and everyone in this country as far as I remember is free to believe whatever they want. And no, I am not going to stop writing just to suit your wishes. It's time liberals came to understand that Christians have a voice and have a right to stand up for what we believe to be true and just for all men and women. People like you seem to think it's your way or no way at all. I may be "sub-intelligent nit-wittery" but what does that make you? Learn one thing, I am not going away and I do intend to keep up the fight. You want to discuss issues then do it intelligently. You want to display your ignorance with your vulgarities then it is your God-given right to do so.
Your reply to PASTORDAVID demonstrated a childish rant, which shows an inabality to refute his remarks. Denigrating ones religion and name calling simply shows a lack of knowledge in arguing a point. Arm yourself with some facts, and then come back with something that can demonstrate where he may be wrong.
To Spasticula, Wow, real intelligent remark. Hmmmm, I wonder if your remarks are a reflection of your name?
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To Lord Vader: At this moment in time my wife and I are in between ministries. We have been looking at possibly starting a new church. We are members of the Southern Baptist Convention but we have worked with other denominations to help restart dying ministries. Our country experienced something most people would never had thought possible, the election of a young black man. This was America's finest moment in what I think was a break down of racial barriers. As for leadership well he has not shown himself to be very forthright. I do question his closest advisors though. I believe Obama is a bight and intelligent individual but I fear that he is not getting the best possible advice from his people. As far as George Bush is concerned, well he did not get some things right either. I was not for the war in Iraq but I supported the efforts. I was certainly not for the bank bailouts. As far as prayer we do pray for our leadership but we also have been writing to our Senators and congressman for explanations as to certain decisions. Only one Senator has been in contact with us. Now as for the direction of the country, I am fearful of its direction and the ever expanding of government control. As for the Republicans I am deeply discouraged by their efforts and their unwillingness to really address the issues head on. I am a Republican but I am mindful that maybe it is time for new parties to emerge. As for the end times, I am mindful that it will happen just when and how only the Lord knows that. At the moment we are called to mind the things we can change and pray for the things that we cannot.
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My post was in response to Lord Vadar, but appears below Spasticula, an inexcusable error. Dear Spasticula. Are you a first cousin to Dreckula? (Ritarita hates me). It's late.
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I thank you for your words and expressed concerns. We may never agree on this president. I feel I must continue to address my concerns to my political leaders here and I have on numerous occasions expressed how I feel towards President Obama by writing to him personally. What I have written here or in other blogs is not something I have not written to him. I feel no shame but hope that maybe, just maybe he may respond back to me. As far as ministry goes, I have never nor will I ever lead a church that is one dimensional. Every church we have served in has had people of different races. If there is one place where color should never be a factor it should be the local church. I have been on the other side of prejudice arrogance and it really makes one feel insignificant. I came across this principle in our Declaration. I feel this government is getting too big and too controlling.
". . .But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. . .
The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."
I hope we never have to fight against our own country men or government.
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Wanting: I suppose this login indicates something of your character. Let's see, how do I respond to your observations? First of all, what does religion, or better yet what does my religious belief have to do with your commentary? Second, let me reiterate something I said before, I did not agree with the war in Iraq. I supported the effort because some of my family members went there. I also knew a few people here where we live that died there. So I am not oblivious to the deaths of Americans. Second, where is it written that Americans killed 91,000 Iraqi civilians? And as to your reference to Katrina, you may be right about our response to the efforts there. Still, there were al lot of religious organizations that went there and some are still there working to get them up and going. Did you volunteer to help? Did the organizations that you support go there and help? And while we are on our mountain top spewing words like racism, is not your hatred for Bush as racist or hateful or do you suppose yourself to be above this matter? And as for your insinuation of a dead religion, what would you know of religion? Or better yet, what do you know about Christianity? You seem to be very intelligent and very self assured, so tell me what do you know about such things? Do you think Christians ought to just shut up, look the other way, never get involved, and never have a different thought? Sure you do. Most liberals don't want to hear a difference of opinion. And as for my comments about the president, let me tell you I have written to him on numerous occasions and I have told him exactly what I think. Now did you do that when Bush was president or did you just go off into your liberal corner and complain? Sorry, I am not an Obama droid. And I will continue to speak out whether it hurts your delicate liberal feelings or not. You talk about racist? What about Garofolo's statements that all the tea party goers were nothing more than rednecks and racist because the president happens to be black? Well let see, then all of the other people who were black, Asian, Hispanic and different religious personnel at these events, well I guess they were racist too? Get off your high horse.
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WHY IS IT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE FED. GOV. TO HELP IDIOTS WHO ARE DETERMINED TO LIVE BELOW SEA LEVEL AND WHOSE LOCAL GOV. DID NOTHING TO PREPARE OR RESPOND TO THE WARNINGS? CAN YOU SAY DEATH WISH?IVE READ MANY MANY COMMENTS ON LINE AND YOURS IS BY FAR THE MOST IGNORANT I HAVE EVER SEEN.
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Beautiful. Honest. (From another post, 'dreck' is spelled with a "c.") There are lots of republicans that voted Obama because they felt he would be the president of all the people, or at least, he would cross over the aisle and try to be.
But when push comes to shovel, none of the 'politishinz' have a clue what to do. The world is really bureaucratized - leaderless - all of the so-called leaders are bureaucrats, devoted to the 'process,' in every instance defending the status quo; not in search of solution.
Be careful of Bar-Donna Bush-Corleone. In the Bush clan they refer to her as 'the enforcer.' Speak too loudly here and FBI will be running a check on your bank account, with a live agent listening in on every call. You will know you are on J. Edgarina's party line when you detect an echo in your telephone. I did not tell you that. I will deny it.
Spasticula, You refer to Bush and frat-boy idiocy, well, what do you think obama is? Bush - Yale, obama - Harvard, same difference - so what's your point?
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Optimus, Please tell me what Civil Liberties of yours were violated by President Bush, that you would want the ACLU to file criminal charges for.
Oh, and by the way, President Bush kept YOU, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR FRIENDS, and THE REST OF THIS COUNTRY SAFE from terror attacks since 9-11!!!!! AND DON'T YOU DARE FORGET THAT!!! And if you are too IGNORANT to ADMIT this, then maybe you just don't belong here!!
orourke-
Since 9-11?
Wasn't that the date
Of the largest terrorist
Attack in
American history?
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I think people who go on about God the most, the George appeared to, appears to also assume it will be others getting judged acting as they are above the law, and sometimes I wonder if they think they are above God.
Sort of the same principle as declaring "in God we Trust on Fiat money". Go figger. [Fiat money is money declared by a government to be legal tender. The term derives from the Latin fiat, meaning "let it be done". Fiat money achieves value ...] excerpted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_currency
Mr. Wilson was sent to investigate allegations of Iraqi purchases of uranium ore from Niger. He was sent at the behest of the Bush administration. His (since declassified) report stated that these rumors were unfounded and the alleged purchase was of such size that it would have been physically impossible to hide. These facts are freely available.
Why do people attack Wilson (pimp, half-man) or deflect debate (next attack, congressional democrats) while ignoring what these facts prove?
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mordoormat - at least part of the problem was and is that is "his" justice department. Its supposed to be our justice department. Aside from that I agree with you.
By attacking Wilson because he believes the matter should be looked into is another of Bush's favorite themes. If you disagree with me YOU'RE A TRAITOR. It was then, and is now Bull.
Thank you.
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