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Courtesy of Magnolia Pictures
Triple-X star Sasha Grey goes mainstream, starring in Steven Soderbergh’s Girlfriend Experience. She talks to Glenn Kenny about dirty films, sexual existentialism—and turning 21.
“Most girls get into porn thinking, I have to look a certain way, I have to act a certain way. And I have to be what my title says I am,” Sasha Grey explains. I am sitting with the 21-year-old brunette in Regency Hotel, in a scenario that feels straight out of The Girlfriend Experience, Steven Soderbergh’s new film starring Grey as—what else, some might say—a high-class call-girl. The setting here is a little more Old World-elegant than the glass-and-steel modernism of CraftSteak, where a similar scene in the Girlfriend Experience takes place—there, Grey’s character, Chelsea, is grilled by a journalist who wonders if any of her clients have an iota of interest in her “true” self.
Full disclosure: I’m in the film, though I do not play the journalist—that honor goes to New York magazine writer Mark Jacobson, a real-life veteran explorer of various American underbellies (his multiple profiles of the drug dealer Frank Lucas formed the basis of the recent film American Gangster). My character is a thoroughly unpleasant fellow who calls himself The Erotic Connoisseur. He manages an escort-appraisal Web site and offers to “up [Chelsea’s] profile” if she would be so kind as to give him a “review copy” of her sensuous wares/skills.
Watch The Girlfriend Experience Trailer
I won’t spoil the revelation as to whether he’s a man of his word, but I will say, from my admittedly less-than-objective perspective, that The Girlfriend Experience, about a very eventful five days in the life of Chelsea as she negotiates her love life and the ups and downs of her career in the midst of 2008’s economic meltdown, is a particularly strong effort from Steven Soderbergh, the Oscar-winning filmmaker who toggles with brilliant deftness between Hollywood blockbusters (Erin Brockovich, Ocean’s 11 through 13), smaller-scaled, edgier fare (Schizopolis, Bubble, The Limey), and neither (his epic-length biopic Che). Grey’s focused, understated performance as an individual who has commodified herself to the extent that even she doesn’t know the “real” her anymore carries the picture. Is her character a cipher, or a genuine enigma? It’s one of the many questions the film leaves hanging.
“If you want to play with the big boys, then you have to play with them. You can't just be a little toy, a little doll, that shows up to the set and says, ‘OK, I'm ready to have sex now, give me my check and let's go.’ Then, yeah, you are going to get chewed up and spit out.”
By now, Grey has done a lot of press, both onscreen and off, as she is attempting a difficult feat: making the jump from the adult film world to mainstream cinema. She is not only a porn star, but a porn star who’s just turned legal to drink, known for enthusiastic participation in acts too dirty to be accurately described on any website that doesn’t require an age check. She’s already gotten the standard-issue “How could you?” treatment on The Tyra Banks Show; she handles the questioning admirably, almost invites it. Her background and unflappable attitude are precisely what won her the role in Soderbergh’s work. She knows, at least as far as porn stars are concerned, exactly what she’s doing.
Of course, one might have a look at some of the titles in her 150-plus porn filmography and ask, as the very concerned Ms. Banks did, just what the hell she’s been doing. Sexual Freak, Teenage Anal Princess 5 (because so much was left unresolved by Teenage Anal Princess 1, 2, 3 and 4), Sasha Grey’s Anatomy (get it?) and so very many more. Since breaking into the porn industry at age 18 (and no, she says, she did not have an unhappy childhood, and no, she also says, she was not sexually molested as a child—although she did watch a fair amount of porn while underage, and her impression that much of it was lame informed her decision to enter the biz), she’s made it a point of exploring some pretty extreme corners of sexuality. And for the most part she looks quite cool, calm and collected while doing so. Her attitude, expressed in a 2006 interview in Los Angeles magazine is what first caught the eye of Girlfriend Experience co-writer Brian Koppelman, who pointed Grey out to Soderbergh. The director hired her after a 45-minute meeting at his Hollywood office.
When I bring up the requisite question about “going mainstream,” with Grey, I get the sense that she would raise an eyebrow at me if she could. But each of her meticulously plucked brows is made up into a permanent arch; along with her very long, straight, split-end-free brown hair; it’s part of her signature look. She shrugs the question off—she gets asked about switching from X-rated movies to a box-office film all the time, but rarely dignifies it. In fact, the idea of “transitioning” from porn to general entertainment isn’t even something she’s all that invested in.
As far as she’s concerned, everything Grey does is part of the same ball of wax—the creation of (if you will) an artistic persona. From the very beginning of her career, she’s been exceptionally astute at locating the cultural nodes where transgression meets the market. She’s worked with the edgy art/commercial photographers Terry Richardson and Richard Kern. Her co-manager is Dave Navarro, guitarist for Jane’s Addiction and sometime porn director. And so on.
How Rich People Smoke Pot
Paul Schrodt is a writer living in New York City. He has contributed to New York magazine, Radar, and Esquire.com.
Justice Clinton?
As vice chairman of Public Strategies and president of Maverick Media, Mark McKinnon has helped meet strategic challenges for candidates, corporations and causes, including George W. Bush, John McCain, Governor Ann Richards, Charlie Wilson, Lance Armstrong, and Bono. McKinnon is co-chair of Arts & Labs, a collaboration between technology and creative communities that have embraced today's rich Internet environment to deliver innovative and creative digital products to consumers.
drmarkklein
There's nothing more expensive than free marital sex. $2000 an hour is cheap compared to the cost of unenthusiastic doing-hubbie-a-favor-sex when the wife's overhead is divided by the frequency of mediocre sex. After losing her looks and acting out 24/7 the cultural hype men are dirt, she takes hubbie to the financial cleaners and steals his children in divorce court. My impression is the $100/hr college girls on Craig's List are quite sufficient.
UltimateFitz
What?
NinaMiller
"Dr. Mark Klein" is a well-known misogynist crackpot. Now that he's discovered the The Daily Beast, expect to hear a lot from him.
connie47
I'm hoping this is somebody's idea of sick humor.
peskime
Someone swallowed a bitter pill this morning.
THINKNIUM
he's right. paid sex is better than doing-hubbie-a-favor-sex., speaking from many personal and friend's experiences. Sick humor and bitter ? from the women replies here, I think not, He's just telling the truth of what happened to most marriages, the truth that most women will never admit or take responsibility for. I love the quote for the movie "As good as it gets" by Jack Nicholson, when a women asked him how he understand women so well, and he answered, simple, I take a men, then take away responsibility and accountability. I would add also taking away having to admit to mistakes.
drmarkklein
Today's women give new meaning to the expression sacred cows. They just can't be criticized. Men who do it are misogynists and female critics are traitors. The reason we're at swords point with the Islamic world is the feay adopting our style of democracy will end up their women treating their men as badly as ours do.
The secrets of male happiness in these times include a first class wash and fold, a George Foreman grill, a house cleaner whose English isn't good enough to hold a conversation, and Craig's List or its local equivalent.
restlessinseattle
both gross male stereotypes and gross female stereotypes are dehumanizing. i encourage the people who live up to them to take and deeper look at themselves. i think the men above have to take responsibility and accountability for attracting and being with the type of women who lead them to make these broad statements.
SteveStephens
In Nebraska, the women really ARE Sacrad Cows.
restlessinseattle
both exaggerated negative female and exaggerated negative male stereotypes are dehumanizing. further, one must look inward and maintain full responsibility and accountability for attracting / engaging with the type of woman who can be summed up by this sort of negative stereotype.
Genni2002
hmmm...so what you are saying is: paid sex is better than doing-wife-a-favor-sex? Jack Nicholson movie characters' hyperbole provides your deep insight for understanding females? Bravo!
drmarkklein
Women committed sexual suicide severely reducing their value as reliable relationship partners. Strongly suspect the explosion in the numbers of self identified gay men over the past 2 decades reflects the utter revulsion to what women have done to themselves. Once upon a time a peak at a lady's ankle excited male ardor. Now prancing around practically naked it's hard to get a rise out of most men!
SteveStephens
Yes, but he still gets sexual favors from his betrothed on his birthday.
jhub32
Truck nuts, right "doctor"? I'm betting you've got a set.
moonchild
In older english common law, there was a reciprocal duty of support due the wife, and conjugal rights for the male members of the bonded couple. Obstensibly, this was/is a contract, and clearly a breach of this contraact could result in divorce. The evolution of equal protection, and womens "[f]rights" movement have caused a state of unresolved offset in equalibrium.
Now, women are not chattel, but face it, the girls on the Chearing Leading Squad are shooting to become trophy wifes, attached to a cash cow like a doctor, penis size no issue, balance sheet and income tantamount to matrimonial bliss, that is until Doctor no good is caught boning one of the nurses.
In Germany, and other civilized countries, the U.S. is not by the way anyway enlightened as to human sexuality, sex workers receive unemployment, periodic medical checks, and other workers. At one point it was considered an alternative form of employment for unemployed.
Unfortunately, from the onset the male of the species is outgunned because females mature at a faster rate and when a group of middle schoolers are competing for the gal with the biggest gams, the trophy goes to the upper classmen. The bargaining posture is unequal for the start.
Clearly it is simply primative to consider women as chattel, they are not. This Country or our founding fathers were not good bible thumpers, and knew the folly of letting the church or some other organization based on a fairy tale, control the reigns of power.Most American do not the Iranian Iatolla for example, so why do we suffer this in our political regime.
Women, are smart and know a good thing and how to manipulate it. We are barraged with MADD diatribes about drunk drivers, equal pay, how about an equal lay policy.Us boys need to pass our seed, and have been deprived of such by a polical process gone mad.
General consensus is it is OK for someone (a guy) to get sodomized in prison, afterall it and I don't use the pronoun he, is a criminal; by heaven to betsy when the ACLU finds out about boss hog pimping the girls out at the penal farm.
Feminist are opportunistic cunts that have been exploiting the times. I for one think children are only useful if they are going to plow the fields, or get off their dead asses, grow up and contribute to society and the social security fund so I can pay for my porn out of government subsidies.
Of course women who appear in pron are poor little waifs that had no choice; bullshit.
It is sad we as a society so enlightened and all tolerate the like of an Athony Scalia on the Supreme Court who imbues his decisions with religious hype.
We need to have an open market, and a $100 a hour for some broad to open he legs and do what god meant her to do is unreasonable. Our concern regarding the former governor of N.Y. is not so much that they were dipping their willie, it was how did they gets the surplus income to do what comes natural and pay the price. Hey hookers should pay taxes, it would help address the growing deficit and national debt.
busdrivermike
Hey ninamiller:
Isn't "misogynist" a politically correct word that defines men as hating women? So isn't that word sexist since it can only be targeted at males?
As much as you try to discount people with sexism, so you discount yourself to others.
KonradProduct
The constant interruptions - "warnings" - during the Tyra clip are distracting and obnoxious. If the DailyBeast is going to post videos, assume the people who are watching ARE adults and able to handle the material. Work it out or watch people navigate away from the site. Like ... now.
Youwot
Agreed. However, it isn't the Daily Beast - but the organization who originally posted the video that put the warnings. If you google you will find an unadulterated version.
Deeanndria
This article made me laugh out loud----this writer has made a fool out of himself and of course he doesn't even realize it. Mr. Kenny reveals his own fantasy of what a happy (female!) porn star is like----intelligent! well-read! cordial! collegiate! professional! long split end free hair! 21! 21! 21! I can hear him drooling from here. Talk to her in twenty years, Mr. Kenny (if you're still interested---she won't be 21 then) and see if she's still happy and cordial and full of bonhomie. What a joke.
alice--k
Well said! I completely agree that this article is feeding into the porn marketing bulls**t machine.
The only unfortunate flaw in your logic, Deeanndria, is that people like Mr. Kenny and Dr. Mark couldn't care less about women over 30 (or maybe even over 25?). They like to eat 'em up young, use 'em up, and spit 'em out.
Real vampirism is the fetishism of youth.
ambralita
I am absolutely nauseated by this young girl and the entire porn industry. God help us all. It is very very difficult not to hate men for being the main pushers/consumers of this incredibly evil, harmful industry.
Deeanndria
I absolutely agree---not that I hate men but the double standard is sickening---would Mr. Kenny want his mother to have been a porn star? His daughter? It's gross. Pornograpy is commerce, pure and simple. If there were no money, no one would do it. That's why this girl is doing it and it's the only reason she's doing it. Consumers of porn want to believe that everyone who does it loves it. How come this girl's eyes look dead?
alice--k
I completely agree. Any time I've talked about porn with a guy in favor of it, they somehow always get stumped when I ask them if they'd be happy for their mother, sister, or daughter to be in one.
The key to porn being watchable is the depersonalization and dehumanization of the people in it. And I completely agree that the porn industry is "marketing" their product by convincing men that the stars "love it." It's bulls**t.
dsycks
There is a LOT of porn that is made for home use. For every large budget porn there are countless home made and amateur porn that is made for nothing more than fun.
As for the issue of wanting ones mom or sister or daughter to do it, I would leave that up to them. I would only hope that they act of their own will and not out of a lack of options which is where the victimization and ugliness comes into play. Our society is so hung up on sex that we view it as dirty and that is sick in its own right.
dsycks
Feel free to hate us. I care about as much as I am sure this "young girl" cares. There is nothing so vile about sexuality or porn in the same way there is nothing so evil about a glass of wine or a fine cigar. There can be problems attached to any of these things but they are not the fault of the object in question.
Deeanndria
You don't make one bit of sense. I am also interested in the way "porn posters" on this site continually need to use the royal "we" and "us". Not only are you so weak that you don't seem to be able to healthily relate to another sexually, you can't state an opinon without calling upon the mythological millions who agree with you. Stand or fall on your own.
Deeanndria
I feel very safe in assuming that if Ms. Grey were "dropped off on your porch", she would take one look and run screaming away. Dream on and get over yourself as well.
Youwot
Sasha Grey appears to have chosen a life where, without breaking the law or abusing another human being, she can learn an awful lot about how it feels to be subject to the judgement of others.
It looked to me like Tyra Banks, with her nasty little snipes, was more abusive to Sasha than anything that she would have experienced on a porn set.
Deeanndria
Give me a break. This girl was abandoned by her father---she was abused right then. My father abandoned me and let me tell you, when Miss Grey talks about asking the idiot male porn star to hit her in the stomach, she was asking for a physical manifestation of the first sensation she learned from a man: getting kicked in the stomach. This girl isn't a person to you; she's a thing, an object. It makes you feel good to believe that a beautiful bright young girl likes being abused and for you to think that it's a-ok for her to be used and abused by men on a porn set (that she loves it) is tragic. If she likes abuse, Ms. Banks was doing her a favor according to your logic. It's a joke.
Youwot
Whoahhh. You are so off the mark with your judgement.
dsycks
Actually it is her choice as to how she cares to live her life. If she is making choices secondary to pain and hurt, I hope she is able to move past it and do better. At the same time I think its silly to assume that is the case. The fact she did not have her father around is NOT evidence of anything more sinister and your talking as if it is says more about you than it does her. We ALL have tragedy in our lives. Get over yourself.
As for needing to see her as less human. I do in fact like seeing her as less human. Girl as object has a hot side to it but it is only a side. If someone wrapped her up in a bow and dropped her off on my porch I would would be more interested in talking to her about issues than treating her like a piece of meat. For as delicious as she is as a package I find her at least as interesting for the non package issues. Take it for what it is worth.
PatriceFitz
Sad, sad, sad.
She is a child, and she doesn't understand the import of what she is doing to her spirit. Someday she will. Many years and much therapy later, she will know better.
Porn isn't good for the viewers, and it isn't good for the performers. And Mr. Kenny -- you are helping to promote this. Do you have a daughter? Would you think SHE was a savvy little thing with her head on straight if she went into porn -- at 18?
SteveStephens
making a few million bucks as a budding movie star should help her spirit.
PatriceFitz
No, actually, it won't. She'll just be a rich unhappy person.
morganw
If Sasha Grey's filmography is to be viewed as "disturbing," then the annotations embedded in the "Tyra" clip strike one as truly horrifying. Aside from the ridiculous assumption that Grey was molested or in some other way abused as a child (how the hell could anyone be sure, other than Sasha, some assumed molester, and perhaps her shrink?), the real abomination is the forced idea of "normalcy" pushed on the viewer. A "normal" sex life is, by definition, a sex life that conforms to the very subjective ideas of normalcy held by whoever is expounding on said issue. The fact is, matrimonial, monogamous, heterosexual missionary just doesn't do it for everybody. And neither does judgmental, puritanical lunacy.
Furthermore, the idea that the type of pornography one consumes somehow is an indicator for one's real-life sexual predilections has been widely disproven (see "Shifting Preferences in Pornography Consumption," by Dolf Zillmann of the University of Alabama, et al). Studies show that viewers seek different, or more extreme, genres of pornography as they tire of more conventional films. Does this mean that watching pedophilia-style role-playing is morally excusable? Probably not, but it is unfair to equate any type of "art" with reality, even if one finds it difficult to define it as such. Perhaps knowing that men and boys like to masturbate while watching said "art" makes it more difficult still for some people. But those are the same people who like to define what "normal" is in the bedroom.
Deeanndria
I repeat---she was abandoned by her father, by the man who was supposed to protect and provide for her. That is abuse. Deal with it.
alice--k
No one is saying everyone has to have a specific type of "normal" sex.
What is being criticized is men paying for sex, whether that be prostitution or porn. As soon as one person pays another for a sexual favor or to do something sexual on camera, exploitation is taking place. It is inherent to the relationship, even if the prostitute/porn star is making $2000 an hour.
But regardless of exploitation, the most basic criticism of porn is that it makes people LAZY! Sure it's easier to rub one out to porn than to have fulfilling sex in an actual relationship with another thinking, breathing person who has a mind of their own....because that takes work! But here's the thing, the work is good for you and is worth it.
Watching porn is lazy and weak, and it allows you never to have to confront and resolve the issues you have that keep you from having the actual sex life you want, whatever that may be.
dsycks
Everyone has suffered abuse. Be a victim or move on. It is your choice.
Msbeachwood
The author states clearly that many porn actors are abused as children. It is not a "ridiculous assumption" to assume that she may well have been as well.
hockeydog
I don't know, maybe we are completely bankrupt as a culture, a country, a noble human entity.
What are the repercussions for another young, perhaps troubled teenage girl seeing a bright future as a hollywood star, and all she has to do is subject herself to this life of humiliation.
Oh it's just another choice - right - doesn't a society have a duty to protect its children? Is this the logical extension of American Idol, and reality television?
I am sorry, but this makes me very sad.
kickerofelves
We've got to the point where our skank is now mainstream and skanks are now actresses in cinema?
I'd like to keep my Sasha Grey skanks doing "Gangbang my Face" in a separate category than my Meryl Streep in Sophie's Choice. These worlds should not meet.
Who knew that my POV would ever end up being considered 'Old Skool'.
Youwot
Yeah, but I wonder if 'your' Meryl Streep would feel the same way?
I would imagine that as an artist she would take an intelligent woman who is actively engaged in trying to make sense of her life, over some such as yourself who brazenly allows herself to dismiss others' experiences with contempt.
Deeanndria
Youwot---I really want to understand, truly. You honestly believe that an eighteen year old girl who admits on national television that she has had sex with fifteen men at once for money (filmed for posterity!) is "trying to make sense of her life"? Really? Yeah, your thought process is waaaaay better than nasty old people who use "judgement." Yeah, it's "judgement" that's going to ruin this girl's life. Yeah, you're just there to cheer her on while she has the time of her life! Why don't you go ahead and buy her an eight ball of cocaine while you're at it? I bet porn makes a whole heck of a lot more sense if you're high.
Deeanndria
Maybe this is too simplistic but the Madonna/whore complex that a lot of men seem to have is so disturbing. They split sex from love or even from another human being; They'd rather watch someone else being degraded and humiliated as opposed to relating emotionally and realistically to a live body.
And they don't see that this makes them less masculine, less manly.
alice--k
Deaanndria, it's like your speaking the thoughts right out of my head.
I think the sociosexual bar needs to be raised for men; they need a higher set of expectations, not just for us, but for *themselves*. Where does it come from that these low expectations exist? How do we as women re-educate men about what we actually think is manly?
Deeanndria
I honestly don't know---I am married to a wonderful man that I adore (and I truly think he is the best man that I've ever known) but even he struggles with this (before I knew him he watched porn with his significant others). I told him that I would not watch it and that I would never change. To his eternal credit, he chose me over porn. But I do think he struggles with sex and emotion---that they can and should be linked. I'm not talking about Harlequin Romance gunk----I'm just talking about really and truly experiencing sex with another person. I think a lot of men are afraid of that---and they deny the fear by deriding the notion itself. It's all about power and surrender, I guess. Choosing to lay yourself down (no pun intended!) and be vulnerable to another person in a loving context is the very definition of power because it indicates that you can handle whatever happens next. Men who must have porn to enjoy sex are afraid of and dislike women. I think it's that simple.
OffenbachStutz
From a cinematic point of view, I had to see what this article
was talking about, so I bopped on down to the Movie Gallery
and rented a Sasha Grey "film."
John Waters is right: she's an unadulterated narcissist.
She stares into the camera the whole time, never once looking at the tattooed love boys having a go at her.
And her shouts of encouragement and pleasure are about as
convincing as Edie The Egg Lady.
Soderbergh is putting us on!
Youwot
Oh bummer. Which one was it so I can tell my teenage son to avoid it.
mothnflame
So why is it that we never have a conversation about the male actors in porn being abused and manipulated and taken advantage of? Is it because we just assume that the person on the receiving end of the sexual act is debased? There's a reason why 'F**k you' is an insult!
Deeanndria
When the male porn star is routinely described by names such as "whore" "bitch, and "slut" in film, then we'll talk. (I do believe that the men are degrading themselves, btw).
citivas
The male stars, with only a few exceptions, are just props and are treated like it. They make a fraction of the money the female stars do. In that sense, this industry may be one of the least gender biased in terms of compensation and status. The females get the money, the fame, the covers, the exclusive multi-picture deals (if they are stand-outs) and the fans. The guys get paid (a little) to have sex with pretty (if mostly disgusting) women and call themselves lucky.
artbeefine
She said she hopes to make 100-150,000. in that year. Um, that's really not that much money. If she's doing it for the money, how sad. Maybe she can command a little more now that she's a big star at 21, but it can't be enough to last her for that many years, and then what is she going to do? I also think that it's funny the porn star is going "mainstream" by playing the role of a hooker. What a stretch. She claims she is empowered by what she's doing, but the porn industry is supported by men and run by men. It is for them. They are defining her, and she aint making that much money doing it.
xbainx
I can't take anyone seriously like her. She could be incredibly intelligent and all I would be thinking is: "I've seen your butthole."
A lot. I'm a fan, can you sign this giant rubber dick?
hockeydog
Those are some terrible visuals, xbainx, but they pretty much sum it up.
finderj
You can buy expert sexual technique.
You can buy vicarious sexual experiences.
You can buy good acting.
You cannot buy caring, compassion, passion, respect, or someone who doesn't laugh at your foibles behind your back.
Of course, some posters on this blog think that sexual professionalism is more than sufficient.
Which may explain the divorce.
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