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Stay Out of It, Obama
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Benjy Sarlin
Critics have urged Obama to "go green," to side with Iranian protesters more vocally. But in an exclusive interview, one of Iran's most high-profile opposition clerics, Mohsen Kadivar, tells The Daily Beast that the reformers don't want any help. He also says the protests are about the presidential election, not about overthrowing the ayatollah.
Plus, read more insight on Iran's election from other Daily Beast writers.
Iran's escalating protests, which many fear will be met with a crackdown given recent hardline rhetoric from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, have upped pressure on President Obama to respond more forcefully. However, Iranian cleric and civil-rights activist Mohsen Kadivar, who has taught at Duke University for the last 10 months after being jailed for his views by the theocratic regime, wants the U.S. to stay out of it.
In an interview with The Daily Beast after a rally and prayer session by the United Nations in solidarity with Iran's protesters, Kadivar said that the opposition movement was entirely self-sufficient and in need of no support from foreign leaders. “What Obama has done so far is about perfect,” Kadivar, garbed in his traditional cleric's robes, said. “We don't need any special support from you. The green movement for democracy and liberty in Iran is independent and we don't need anything from the foreigners. We should get democracy ourselves.”
“We don't need any special support from you,” Kadivar said. “The green movement for democracy and liberty in Iran is independent and we don't need anything from the foreigners. We should get democracy ourselves.”
The opposite line had been floated Friday morning on The Washington Post's op-ed page, with conservative columnists Charles Krauthammer and Paul Wolfotwitz attempting to goad Obama out of his relative quiet.
Kadivar is one of Iran's top human-rights activists, renowned for his religiously grounded arguments in favor of expanded civil liberties and democracy. Moments before the interview, he had delivered a sermon in Farsi to a green-clad crowd of a few dozen protesters, in which he spoke directly to Iran's ruling party, asking why they did not respect the voice of their own people, particularly by closing down Internet and phone communications.
“I ask the leadership, are these actions of a victor?” he told the crowd. “If you have these votes, have the attitude of a winner.”
Despite his grave descriptions of political crackdowns in Iran on dissidents and intellectuals, which the audience responded to with cries of “Allahu Akbar!” Kadivar sounded a strikingly upbeat note on the opposition's prospects to achieve change. He told The Daily Beast that he hopes a planned meeting between the Guardian Council and the four presidential candidates will produce positive results.
“I'm so hopeful and optimistic about the future,” he said with a smile.
Kadivar said he was particularly heartened by the organization role of presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, whom he believes could be an influential force down the road.
“I think that Mr. Mousavi has the capacity to be a leader of an opposition movement,” Kadivar said. “I believe he has it in him.”
Even if the movement fails to achieve its goals immediately, Kadivar believes in the long run it has already succeeded by clearly distinguishing itself from the corrupt ruling party.
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He should stay out of it. We have enough problems here at home.
He should stay out of it because they really do have to do this on their own - just like we did over 200 years ago.
The Israelis are not making statements or taking sides, they are watching to see who wins. As far as they are concerned it doesn't matter. Obama should do the same. Why the neocons want to get us mixed up in this is business as usual, a lose-lose situation for Obama.
The Israelis are making comments about the U S not making comments. Nothing would please them more than to see the U S go in and destroy Iran's nuclear facilities.
xintcat,no Israelis are not against the Iranians uprising,,Israelis are on the side of those Iranians who want peace, and want to live in freedom and do not want to abide by ajmadijanons opression,and continue to say he wants to wipe out Israel.That is not trueThey also are hoping and wishing for peace.
Obama is doing the same. Lots of noise being made to tell the President to do ... exactly what it is that he is doing. He simply expressed concern.
al-nafs,This is all the result of Obama not calling them all Axis of Evils,like the past administration,condeming all Iranianas.by Obama extending friendship,he planted the seed for those who wanted change.All he can do is express concern.This would have never happened with the former administration,because all Iranians were all united in hating the west and Israel.Now the enemy,is the real enemy they have inside,the opressors,the Ayatollah,ajmadinajon,all of these mulahs,The split is in their country,beliefs,wishes and dreams.This is not just about an election,they want change,they want to be part of the democratic world,however they see it.and Israel and the West, with a normal leader, with peace is mind and wishing to help their country foward would be the greatest happiness for all
"Neocon" is a codeword for "conservative Jew." It was a term invented by the left for saying "Jew" without actually saying it.
Ridiculous! Have you been listening too much to Andrew Sullivan?
That term has changed over the years... fairly markedly between 1970 and 2009. I think we need to look at the current associations with the term.
In January 2009 Jonathan Clarke, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs, proposed the following as the "main characteristics of neoconservatism"
"a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms
low tolerance for diplomacy
readiness to use military force
emphasis on US unilateral action
disdain for multilateral organizations
focus on the Middle East".
It is the Iranian people's job to fight for their own freedom, if they want to step it up to a civil war, I'm sure our proxies in the region would be more than happy to provide them with a selection of fine weapons at a fair price otherwise we should keep our nose out of other people's business.
I wish the democracy movement Iran well, and hope they can avoid a crackdown of the type that happened in China in 1989. I would like America to have somewhat better relations with Iran than the constant threat of wars and sanctions, but there is little we can do to influence events in that country, even if we wanted to.
We have not even had an embassy in Iran for 30 years, nor are Americans even allowed to visit on tourists visas. I wonder if Iranians realize that it is actually against the law for us to travel to Iran at all, or trade or do business with it. Under US law, the punishment for anyone who travels to Iran without special permission from the State Department is ten years in prison and a fine of $250,000. I bet these Ayatollahs aren't telling the Iranians the truth about how we are not even allowed to go to Iran at all!
Actually, I agree with this law, and think it would be a mistake to large numbers of Americans to go to Iran ever again. The history between our two countries is mostly a negative one, with the US overthrowing Mossadegh in Operation Ajax in 1953, and then backing the Shah's dictatorship for decades. Then we had the 444-day hostage crisis under Jimmy Carter, and the oil shock which destroyed his presidency, as well as US support for Iraq in the 1980-88 war.
For all these reasons, I think it's best for the US to take a very cautious, careful approach with Iran, always trying to ensure that we do not repeat these policies of the past. I have never even been there myself, and as I said, it is not even legal for me to go there. I think it's best that we keep our distance, offer moral support to those who want reform and democracy, but not get too closely involved with events in Iran beyond that.
We have no real power or influence there anyway, and have not had since 1979. I know I'm certainly in no hurry even to open an American embassy there again!
The Iranians didn't get involved in 2000 when Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris and five Republicans on the Supreme Court gave us George Bush and eight years of misery.
Good Point.
Even worse: Governor Jeb was part of it. That became clear when Jeb did the exact same thing in 2004: published lists that all but guaranteed that people that should be able to vote, couldn't, because they were on the list of ex-convicts, rightly or wrongly.
Letting either of the political parties count the votes, as is done in most states, will always find abuses occurring sometimes. They need to be counted by a totally non-partisan entity, and in full view.
Mr. Obama wants to provide vocal support for the free, and freely counted, election of leaders in Iran, let him say so. Just be sure and not tell Iranians whom to vote for.
I think, however, they may take care of their problems themseleves.
This is, after all, a culture where jihad for religio/political ends is common.
No one except self-promoting, self-seeking individuals fail to understand that this isn't about the U S and that jumping in where you are not invited is arrogant and dangerous. Most individuals capable of critical thinking have to wonder if these interlopers are just attempting political gain or if they have more senister motives. Are they willing to sacrifice hundreds of civilians protesters to gain an excuse to invade a sovereign nations on false pretenses?
There haven't been hundreds of deaths. A tragic loss of eight, for which masses wore black to mourn. This isn't Tianenmen square,.. at least not yet.
What's all this advice for President Obama ? As if he doesn't have capable national security advisors. They know what to do and what to say.
But this whole idea of " Oh, please, please, please, don't get involved" makes it sound like the thugist government is untouchable or something ?
President Obama will do what it takes to protect the interest of the United States.
How does Iran's election dispute affect anyone other than its citizen voters living inside Iran?
The U.S. is not the world's electoral police, nor is it the world's electoral tribunal.
Yes, a foreign country's election dispute is untouchable.
After 30 years of seeing Iran falling off the map of the earth and the world becoming deadspirited to where even the students at UCLA wanted Iran bombed before they went back, and children killing children I rose on a calling and wrote 9 books in one year in 1994 pioneering new psycho-universal spirituality of rpevention, health & Excellence of Universal Laws of Human Rights and Leadership Excellence Self Power and People Power and Global Family as larger purpose and bridging through dialogue through all medium that would put an end to all pain and suffering creating Global Democracy!At that time not you nor even the United States had any idea of true democracy let alone Global Democracy and Ali or rumi were burried without being remembered or acknowledged! I believe we can put an end to all global crisis by letting go of fanaticism and competitive rivalry and discrimnatory chovenism that has made a scientist spiritual leader and healer and counselor silenced and censored for the past 12 years with everyone running around claiming her life work!I forgive and believe the reformists if give credit to their source are in the right track following me and we must unite to win and that means winning and victory for all not just some!
there's no shortage of nuts on the internet these days
The way I see it is that Iran is run by a bunch of Old Men who seem to think that they know what is best for the people. However, what they cannot fathom right now is that the citizens of the country are not happy, and they are trying to make this whole thing about the "foreigners"!
Obama is doing the right thing by staying out of it, and the more he stays out of it, the more the Iranian Gov. is looking like morons. They are blaming the foreigners already and for the most part no one in the Obama Administration has done or said anything to be blame for.
The Iranian Gov. are like the Rightwing Puppy Kickers in this country, they live in denial!!!
The Rightwing Puppy Kickers are only using this as a political football, because they are a party of no solutions, or ideas that would be of benefit to the American People and are doing nothing but pulling at straws. I don't care what Reagan had done when he was president. However, from what I do remember is that Reagan and Mr. Charlie Wilson stop the cold war, but in the process started a different kind of war and if they didn't stick their noses were they didn't belong maybe, just maybe 9/11 would not have happened!
If Reagan had stayed and helped put a more permanent Gov. in place in Afghanistan instead of encouraging the Taliban, maybe just maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened!
Rightwing Puppy Kickers! Thank you, thank you....my yuk for the day lol.
The way I see it is that Iran is run by a bunch of Old Men who seem to think that they know what is best for the people. However, what they cannot fathom right now is that the citizens of the country are not happy, and they are trying to make this whole thing about the "foreigners"!
Obama is doing the right thing by staying out of it, and the more he stays out of it, the more the Iranian Gov. is looking like morons. They are blaming the foreigners already and for the most part no one in the Obama Administration has done or said anything to be blame for.
The Iranian Gov. are like the Rightwing Puppy Kickers in this country, they live in denial!!!
The Rightwing Puppy Kickers are only using this as a political football, because they are a party of no solutions, or ideas that would be of benefit to the American People and are doing nothing but pulling at straws. I don't care what Reagan had done when he was president. However, from what I do remember is that Reagan and Mr. Charlie Wilson stop the cold war, but in the process started a different kind of war and if they didn't stick their noses were they didn't belong maybe, just maybe 9/11 would not have happened!
If Reagan had stayed and helped put a more permanent Gov. in place in Afghanistan instead of encouraging the Taliban, maybe just maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened!
The last time the United States became involved in the internal politics of Iran, Eisenhower backed a takeover of the government by the Shaw, who replaced the elected President with a monarchy. This made the entire Middle East furious. The last thing the United States needs to do in that part of the world is to create even more enemies. It has enough already.
Funny how the liberal media like TDB are rallying around the talking points they have received from their Messiah's lackeys. Maybe we should stay out of it but you would think that liberal minded people would at least have qualms about standing idly by while the masses of Iran face up to blatant oppression of their democratic rights.
Do you hear the Europeans saying anything? The Canadians? Anybody? No, you don't. That's because the rest of the world already knows what you in the US need to learn. BUTT OUT! ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!
Very Well Said!
Thank you! Agree.....
Uh.... Excuse Me....Butt The Europeans have said plenty and stronger than Obama. Stay Informed...http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090623/wl_time/08599190620200http ://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7777224.stmhttp://www.deutsche-welle.de/ dw/article/0,,4411746,00.htmlhttp://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,2 5197,25649133-2703,00.html
I agree that the U.S. should not interfere with the proceedings of those Zealot Idiots in Iran....But the President can make his guarded comments thats Democracy.
As a conservative, I'm sure you have no qualms with telling other people how they should live and be. As you noted, the masses of Iran are facing up to the blatant oppression of their democratic rights. It is their fight, and they are handling it quite well I think.
How appropriate would it have been for European nations to intercede during the civil rights movement, when far more people were killed and the oppression of basic human rights was instituted in law.
As a nation, the US grew up and advanced because of that struggle. A child has to be permitted to learn certain life lessons while the parents ensure that the child doesn't suffer permanent harm. Its how we grow as humans.
Good analogy.
Excellent way to put it.
No qualms, absolutely none.
opedanderson,You can joke about the messiah nickname,Obama jokes about it himself,but there is a change slowly happening in the world.and it is from the Obama effect. he is spreading good will, and friendship, and that has people from all over the world and all nations, joining him.very interesting.Im not a liberal,but the pathetic former administration,,spread hatred towards other and towards us.He does have a messiah effect, and he is funny,too........People want to be our friends,and belong to democracy.
President Obama is walking a thin line with Iran, I think he is doing it quite correctly and those shoot, fire, and then aim like John McCain are 'DEAD WRONG', as said by Joe Klein. Now you know why a hot headed person like John is not our president, thank goodness. Between him and Eric Cantor we would be way on our way to a war with Iran, think about it.
joycehelene,you are right,and if we would get envoled ,it would be a disaster, because they would unite calling us oppressors, and invadors.The real cause and uprising would loose its value.It would become about US.
Cantor is an idiot... and is making a fool of himself a lot lately. As if we care about his opinions! I get the feeling he just wants to get his face on TV and is trying to implement some plan to forward himself on the political scene... and I fast forward through his interviews. And yes... he is a dangerous fool.
Those who continue to call for the US to take a tougher stand against the Iranian government and for the opposition their are either stupid, or don't know what the hell is going on there and are ignorant of the fact the we'd hurt the Iranian opposition if we became more vocal in ur support for them, or don't really give a damn about the whole thing in Iran and they just want to score some cheap political gain among their semi-illiterate, half-brain base who couldn't tell you where Iran is on the map. In any case, the iranian opposition are pleading with us to leave them alone and not to give the hardliners in Iran the ammunition they need to paint the protestors as American puppets. Give it up you cheap clowns of the republican party, and give the good guys in Iran a break from your sleazy political shenanigans!
The press should stop interviewing the political "face men" who just want to hear themselves talk and have nothing of value to offer on the topic. I think they are self-motivated opportunists and most of the time... as you say... don't know what the hell is going on to begin with. They are vote hunters... not public servants.
President Obama is right again.And guess what the publicans and jOHN mcLOST THE RACE mcCAIN ARE WRONG AGAIN NO WODER THEY LOST Thank goodness the president did'nt fall for publican trickery.
Headline could have been "Wolfowotz Wrong Again, streak remains unbroken.
Wolfowitz still has plenty of backers. That is why his name has resurfaced in this again. Unbelievable.
Listen dahlings, one of the talking heads saying that Obama and the US should jump into this mess is Paul Wolfotwitz. You remember him? He was one of the talking heads in the Bush White House that masterminded the Iraq war, screaming that Sadam had WMD and it was the responsibility of the US to take immediate total military action. For his past service to the Country and for his brave comments about Iran, Mr, Wolfotwitz should be tarred and feathered and dropped off at the Bush white house in Crawford, Texas. Be cheered bobbykins, they love people like him in Texas.
Why don't we see how the people of Iran handle this situation themselves? I think it is a very good article.
Noooohhhhh! We must do what the Republican Neo Cons demand. We listened to them for eight years and it all worked out great! Obama, you better listen to the Neo Cons, they have a great worldview! USA! USA! USA! USA!
About the neocons, read about Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson (D) and his connection with Wolfowitz. Gives a perspective on the evolution of this thinking that is not often noted.
All this political rhetoric aside, why doesn't anyone mention the real reasons we, the usa, care about iran? Ah, oil? If the state of Iran becomes the dominant player in the region, what's to become of our oil supply? Why am I confused?
The Energy Information Administration (a unit of the Department of Energy) has a list of the top 15 countries that the United States imports oil from. Iran is not on that list. Reference...
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_l evel_imports/current/import.html
It's not about oil. It's about nuclear fears and maybe it's about the fact that hard feelings aside, the Iranians are natural allies of the United States. It's a regional power, it's relatively stable (for the neighborhood), some of its strategic interests coincide with those of the United States, it's kind of a democracy, and the locals don't generally hate us. Maybe later we can buy their oil.
Yikes! Another member of the "It's all about oil, stupid." club. There are other factors at play. (Unless you're a Texan or Alaskan I guess)
Paul Wolfotwitz?? Is that a typo or a Freudian slip?
Did anyone read Paul Wolfotwitz's opinion piece? I tried to, in the sense that I read it but could not discern what he thought Obama should actually say if he were to take the Wolfman's advice and break his silence.
Charles Krauthammer's opinion piece is better written than Wolfie's but it's still a bunch of nonsense. For example...
Krauthammer - "Dialogue with a regime that is breaking heads, shooting demonstrators, expelling journalists, arresting activists. Engagement with -- which inevitably confers legitimacy upon -- leaders elected in a process that begins as a sham (only four handpicked candidates permitted out of 476) and ends in overt rigging."
Jeez, like the Iranians give a rat's ass (pardon my French) about what America thinks about their government's legitimacy. Iran is not South Vietnam, where the local power elite had to mind their Ps and Qs around the Americans. And in any case, I suspect the Iranians are preoccupied with what they themselves think about their government's legitimacy. Or better yet, whether or not is this really is THEIR government.
Krauthammer - "Where to begin? 'Supreme Leader'? Note the abject solicitousness with which the American president confers this honorific on a clerical dictator who, even as his minions attack demonstrators, offers to examine some returns in some electoral districts -- a farcical fix that will do nothing to alter the fraudulence of the election." -
I'm pretty sure that the Iranian government refers to Obama as President Obama just like we do, despite the fact that he himself is the Supreme Leader of their version of the Great Satan. It doesn't hurt to be polite.
Krauthammer - "Even from the narrow perspective of the nuclear issue, the administration's geopolitical calculus is absurd. There is zero chance that any such talks will denuclearize Iran. On Monday, President Ahmadinejad declared yet again that the nuclear 'file is shut, forever."
Evidently Chuck doesn't read the Daily Beast, otherwise he'd know that our hero Mousavi is also in favor of nuclear development in Iran.
I think both of them miss the point that this is an Iranian members-only event. We're not wanted. Not for this.
Aljazeera has an interesting article on what's going on in Iran.
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2009/06/200961781431119985.html
Aljazeera should be on our cable network. Why isn't it?
We should absolutley stay out of this. And when the "reformers in Iran come looking to us for financial aid we should give them the same amount of assistance. It's time for the US to cut back on foreign aid and keep our tax dollars at home!!!!
I agree! Look at all of the billions we've squandered over the years supporting folks like Saddam...
Ayatollah Khomenei has said Ahmadinejad won by "11 million votes".
The Iran election commotion is for Iran to solve. Period.
Thank you.
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