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Is Scientology's Wall Cracking?
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Several recent high-profile Scientology defections have led some to wonder whether one of the church’s most visible members, John Travolta, may be next. Kim Masters reports.
The St. Petersburg Times ran an extraordinary three-part series on Scientology last week featuring interviews with some very high-level defectors. Among the claims: that 49-year-old Scientology leader David Miscavige, a close associate of the church’s biggest star Tom Cruise, dished out constant physical abuse to his associates.
One of the key sources in the articles, Mike Rinder, was assigned to deal with me when I wrote a 2005 magazine article about Cruise. A fallen-away Rinder speaking on the record is a big get, as any journalist who has covered Scientology knows. Marty Rathbun is a big name in Scientology circles, too. Both were high-ranking members of the Sea Organization, Scientology’s upper-level staff. Sea Org members commit to the job for one billion years (with breaks provided to accommodate childhood at the beginning of each new incarnation). They live in dorms and are not permitted to have children.
“Celebrities only talk to people who have a certain level of ‘clearance,’ ” says Nancy Many, an ex-Scientologist who served as president of the group’s Celebrity Centre. “The Scientology they get is not the Scientology that an ordinary person gets.”
Rinder says he endured dozens of beatings; he and Rathbun say they inflicted some, too, under orders from Miscavige. The articles say Miscavige exerts such influence that “managers follow his orders, however bizarre, with lemming-like obedience.” Rathbun now says he ordered the destruction of evidence after a member's death brought on investigations and litigation. He also was involved in one of Scientology’s biggest coups: getting the IRS to grant the group tax-exempt status.
Needless to say, the Church of Scientology vehemently denies the allegations in the series and portrays those who made them as embittered apostates seeking to wrest control of the church from Miscavige. So Rinder is now denounced as an apostate; if memory serves me, he used that word repeatedly when attacking the credibility of former Scientologists who spoke in my article about Cruise.
None of the allegations against Miscavige is likely to reach the ears of many Scientologists, especially celebrity members and the Sea Org members, who are not supposed to own cellphones, watch television, or surf the Web. “That’s built into them from day one,” says Tory Christman, who spent 20 years in Scientology. “Don’t look at the entheta—it will ruin your bridge to total freedom.” (In Scientology parlance, good news is theta news; entheta is the opposite.)
“You’re basically placed in a bubble, exactly like in The Truman Show,” said another longtime church member, Michael Pattinson. “You never hear bad news.” (Pattinson said the church had told him it could “cure” him of homosexuality but after spending more than 20 years and laying out hundreds of thousands of dollars, he concluded that the treatment wasn’t working.)
While fallen-away Scientologists think Cruise is firmly inside that bubble, some former Scientologists nurse hopes that John Travolta may be getting restless. A few who knew him during their time as members hope that he will question Scientology’s opposition to the use of medication following the death of his son in January. (Sixteen-year-old Jett Travolta suffered from autism and his death has been ascribed to a seizure disorder. Former Scientologists—including Christman, who says she has epilepsy and paid a high price after going off her meds at Scientology’s urging—say the church does not recognize autism as a medical condition.) But Travolta’s publicist says the star is steadfast: “He’s very much part of the Church of Scientology. There’s no change there.”
If that commitment is resolute, say fallen-away members, it may be because Travolta’s Scientology is different from that experienced by regular folks. “Celebrities only talk to people who have a certain level of ‘clearance,’ ” says Nancy Many, an ex-Scientologist who served as president of the group’s Celebrity Centre. (“Clear” in Scientology refers to a trouble-free state that doesn’t come cheaply or easily.) She adds, “The Scientology they get is not the Scientology that an ordinary person gets. It is purposely kept away from them.”
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Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
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Kim Masters covers the entertainment business for The Daily Beast. She is also the host of The Business, public radio's weekly program about the business of show business. She is also the author of The Keys to the Kingdom: The Rise of Michael Eisner and the Fall of Everybody Else.
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Kim Masters covers the entertainment business for The Daily Beast. She is also the host of The Business, public radio's weekly program about the business of show business. She is also the author of The Keys to the Kingdom: The Rise of Michael Eisner and the Fall of Everybody Else.
Meet the Movie Theater of the Future
Kim Masters covers the entertainment business for The Daily Beast. She is also the host of The Business, public radio's weekly program about the business of show business. She is also the author of The Keys to the Kingdom: The Rise of Michael Eisner and the Fall of Everybody Else.
All these religions / cults have the common aspect of goal setting. They feed right into the hands of people's needs to reach a higher level of understanding about everything (mostly themselves), fix something and give structure. It would not surprise me in the least bit that Scientology uses mind control methods listed here. Breaking people down is common in lots of 'commitment' endeavors. Keep the people weak and dependent. Why big stars with access to everything would be sucked in is (unless their parents were members) beyond me?
For some people, as the song says, happiness is a warm gun. Like most societal constructs Scientology's beauty is skin deep. After that it's blood and guts and childhood baggage.
If I really wanted to make the world go away, I'd live in the Maine woods. And live off the land or something. Everyone knows life doesn't necessarily work that way. Especially in America! The Freedom of Religion Act is being horribly abused and it's sad for the already well established religions which have very little ulterior motives and really believe what they preach... to have people do these things for feeding their own sicknesses and preying on gulible (but otherwise very smart) people. Especially for money or molesting children.
Touche. We know that a lot of people who are actors are people compensating for something missing in their childhood (security, self-esteem, etc.), as evidenced by their many memoirs. Scientology preys on this insecurity and reaps the benefits of their current $$$ security.
I can see why big stars want to reduce negativity, to help them cope with being famous. The power of positive thinking is a very healthy, useful approach. But the rest of the scientology stuff is just pure bunk full of controlling methods and certainly not a religion.
I am going to become a solipsist, take a tylenol, and make all these random cults* go away.
*If Germany thinks Scientology is a dangerous cult, then it probably is. They have LOTS of experience with dangerous cults.
Who is "Germany"?
It certainly feels as if the dam wall might just be beginning to shudder under all the pressure.
That's a nice bit of reporting, Kim. Thanks.
What goes up, eventually comes down . . . just like the Third Reich!
At some point, people come back to their common sense and realize, they've been victimized for their money & power to build something that's akin to a cult or Third Reich. It's nice to see it buckle under its own power and at some point, I hope to read it's completely dissolved.
Scientology is a blight, but it serves no purpose in the long run. They're fooling themselves, but at some point people will realize they've been taken and stop the madness.
Hopefully the open sharing of information and free thought that the internet provides will not only help bring down cults like Scientology, but also continue to expose the poisonous lies and ridiculous mythology of all religions.
Well, except for the One True Religion(tm), of course. Surely you didn't mean to get rid of _that_ one!
True enough! The proof is in the pudding! If anyone really wants to figure out what and who is really (truely) out there, do the three R's. Read, Research, Reflect. Read about every religion out there. Do your research before you make any decisions on who is out there for the truth or for fame/money/feeding a personal sick-mindedness/glory/dominance... you really have to dig, dig, dig! Then reflect on everything you've gone over. Philosophies are just that. Opinions are opinions as well. Stories can be 1% truth and 99% fake and still be believable. I would also challenge any Chirstian to step back from their denomination and look at who/when/what/why/where/how other denominations got started. I've done it. I'm a former Catholic, I did my research and now I attend a Mormon church. To me they make the most sense. And there is no one person (preacher/minister/priest) who shoves their views down everyone's throat. (And no ladies you don't share your husband) Keep an open mind! Figure it out! And as Whinnie the Pooh likes to say 'Think, think, think'.
Keep reporting on this Maybe it will open some eyes as to the fact that this is a money, power grubbing cult with no purpose except to serve itself.
Please, for your own good, don't any of you compare this to churches and religions that exist to honor God.
And why, pray tell (irony intended), shouldn't we? Are you going to sic your big, scary God on me? As far as I can tell, they're all in the same racket: keep the masses fearful and obedient.
Free speech for free people, baby. If it hurts your feelings, just move your green little butt along.
ImanotGonnatellu, u r an idiot without enough brains to believe in the God that created you. If God didn't create the planets, then how come they are all different? Who, then did create us?! How do you explain the mystery of life? Did Darwin the racist say something about it? You should keep your mouth shut and your computer off!
Everyone loves a talking snake
hdbdude...starting off with name calling never gains any ground, typically people stop caring about what you have to say or skip you all together.
Here's my take on things (I'm agnostic by the way). All religions have their pros/cons flaws and what not. Some are definitely more cult like than others...but that's part of the freedom of religion that we all get to enjoy in our great country. hdbdude obviously believes in God, that's fine and his/her choice to do so. There is also the choice to not believe in God as well and all people need to remember that decision should be respected as much as anyone's choice to worship who/how they want.
All religions to some degree are inherently flawed because they are lead by man and the interpretation of other writings of man and so on...man as a whole has the capability to be greedy, selfish...pick the bad quality of your choice, we have a lot of them. Therefore in order to follow a religion you have to weed through the crap created by man and get to the truth...ah there's the rub...no one can possibly EVER know the truth, yes I said EVER. There is no concrete evidence left that the Bible is the true word of God. This is where the word faith comes into play defined as: "belief that is not based on proof"
So there you have it, my 2cents. Just because you believe in a particular religion doesn' t make you right and it doesn't give you the right to judge or otherwise tell another human being what they need to believe in or how to live their life. (see Christianities hatred for gay people). Oh, and I'm a firm believer in separation of church and state...where we totally dropped that ideal I have no idea but we need it back for sure.
greengirl,I was almost going to say all religions have the pros and cons. thank you for stopping me.Scientology must provide something to people like the wonderful Trevolta,Im just not sure, what. Well we all have our happy moments and sad moments, and religions,are support thru it all.But if you have to beat people,control,them,manipulate them ,its wrong.I do think cults,countries like Iran,and on and on are loosing control with the cyber world,internet,computers
And how is this religion any different than those churches that honor God? Religion is as religion does. The only real distinction between Scientology and Christianity that I can see is that you have to pay to be told what the theology really is.
And that very distinction is the heart of the matter. Scientology is not a religion, it's a Ponzi scheme with aliens and rocket ships in.
Christianity tells you, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man cometh unto the Father but by Me."
Islam says to you, "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his Prophet."
Scientology retorts, "You're dragging around evil alien ghosts, and the only way you will ever be happy is to give us lots and lots of money."
Show me any priest, reverend, rabbi, imam or guru who says you can buy your way to a better afterlife and I'll show you a charlatan and a thief who should be run out of town on a rail.
Which god? Or is it gods? You need to be more specific.
There are people who believe that ALL religions are scams to keep people in their place. And in most senses it has worked. But as far as the question is who/what/how many god(s) out there is/are real. You have to think of where your provisions are coming from. All those who don't believe in a tried and true divinity should stop biting the hand that feeds them.
Perhaps you missed out on the whole Crusades and Inquisition thing or even the witch trials. Hell if the Vatican 'honored' god as much as you think that it should, would there be so much pomp? Ridiculous to think that god is even in teh equation with religion these days.
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Want to do something about the debt and lower taxes?
Have ALL religions and cults "loose" their tax exempt status!
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oops....thanks!
Spasticula,
Where, oh where, do you get your endearingly dickish quality?
You remind me of the Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons. (Am I close?)
Amen to this idea!
You're right about this 100%
Thanks for trying to keep this story alive. When I first saw the "Truth Rundown" series last week I hoped it might have enough momentum to force some major reforms, but all bets are off now that Michael Jackson is dominating the news. These stories deserve the widest possible attention.
To whit: why do you think Lisa Marie Presley married Jacko, out of a deep personal need for humiliation? The 'Tollies dearly coveted the cash and influence controlling MJ and the Beatles catalogue would give them.
'Tollies prey on the weak and easily influenced, largely kids from the middle of the country who come to the coasts. That's when they made the play for Jacko; they got Travolta after his older girlfriend died and he felt betrayed by the press. To this day, I only know of one (ex-)Jewish tolly and one black tolly; pehaps they're generally too saavy and street smart to get hustled by these hucksters. Deadly and mean - it really is all about the money.
Are all those fools running out to the music stores and buying up MJ's collection going to pay off is debts? Is he a god? Is Elvis? Is JFK? Or Frank Senatra? I know... Operah Whinfrey! She must be a goddess or something because everything she says nearly instantly becomes gospel truth! People seriously need a life!
Travolta has been a Scientologist for the last 20 year and you really have to delusional to see a change in that. Just recently he supported several Scientology charities and his wife Kelly Preston was the host of a Charity Concert at the Church of Scientology in the UK (and presented a check of $82,000 to the Sussex Air Ambulance).
Scientology is ridiculous. Still, you have to admire the gall of Hubbard. As a science fiction writer, he wrote a novel about a man who invents a religion and uses it to become wealthy and powerful. Then he did it. How destructive that has proven to be continues to be demonstrated in the broken lives of people who rely on it.
I wish Scientology could stick to what it does well, which is to cure people of drug addiction, and to help criminals learn how to lead a good life. These things are done under the names Criminon & Narconon. Other than that, you don't hear a lot of good about Scientology. But, at the same time, if you investigate Mormonism (& probably several other religions,) the stuff they peddle isn't that much crazier than what Scientologists push.
I know that amongst many Scientologists, there is a true passion to want to help people to live free of addiction & other damage from drugs, but beyond that, I can not truthfully defend them.
If scinetology is really just an elaborate non-drug rehab program... then stop dragging religion into the mix!!!! If people want to live as naturally as possible then by all means you don't need to become a scientologist to do it! Go by Nike's slogan 'just do it'. I have investigated Mormonism along with a great many other religions. I have my views you have yours. Mormons make the most sense!!!!!!! It was developed by a teen boy who had but a minimal education who ASKED QUESTIONS!!!! Something too many people don't do anymore... And it's sad.
Bryan, It's undoubtably true that many people have gotten hooked into cults like scientology joined with altruistic ideals. Cults prey on just that sort of thing. Regardless, front groups like Criminon and Narconon do nothing well beyond sucking even more people and more money into the cult. Their claims of a 70% success rate at curing addiction are nothing more than undocumented bluster. Third party studies indicate a success rate that is lower than what could be expected with no treatment at all. Overheated saunas and high doses of vitamins do not cure addiction. At worst, these so-called treatments place their recipents in even greater danger to their health. There are many legitimate, recognized, and successful drug treatment programs available including Narcotics Anonymous. There's no reason why anyone who's done the least bit of research should ever allow themselves to get sucked into a sham such as Narconon.
As for the relative crazieness being peddled by actual religions, that's completely irrelevent. It's not the beliefs of Scientologists that have brought the cult to the brink of collapse, it's the criminality of the organizaton as a whole.
Years ago, I was stopped on the street by a Scientologist, who offered to do a "personality profile" on me. I agreed, and answered questions about how I felt about this or that, and what I did in this or that situation.
All of the questions had double or triple negatives. For instance, a question might be, "I often don't feel that I'm sometimes not depressed." I don't remember exact questions, but that gives you an idea.
What struck me was how carefully I had to count the negatives to find out if I was supposed to answer "Yes" or "No". Some questions required significant thought because they were so convoluted.
No matter. Both I and another person who took the profile at the same time learned from the Scientology evaluation that we were mentally ill, and required substantial assistance to make us well, which they were happy to provide.
So their strategy, as I saw it, was to boggle your mind, convince you you needed help, then tell you they had the answers and could cure you.
I said "No, thank you."
You expected them to say you're good to go?
Really?
No. I did not. But think of all the people they sucked in that way, who believed them, and want us to think the religion is credible.
I think I'm going to make up a bunch of really confusing questions, carry them around in my pocket and if someone approaches me about scientology... then I can turn the table on them! See how they react! Hehehe...
One more story about Scientology. I have a friend whose ex-husband was a folk singer in the 1960s. He was in the middle of all the stuff that was going on at the time. You name a counterculture character from California in the 60s, and this guy met him.
One day, he was at a gathering at author Aldous Huxley's house, and Ron Hubbard was there. They were all hanging around, drinking, I guess.
He says Huxley and Hubbard got into an argument over whether or not you could invent a religion and persuade tens of thousands of people to follow it.
So they made a bet. Ron Hubbard said you could, and said he would prove it.
Problem was, Aldous Huxley died before he could pay up.
The moral of the story is, if you believe my friend's ex-husband, Scientology was created as a the result of a drunken bet between two science fiction writers.
And it shows.
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(And making a comment like that makes you a bit of a d!ck, no? That I confused my authors and genres? I can repair mine by pulling up Amazon.com. You can't repair yours without a whole lot of internal effort.)
I never said my friend of a friend was credible. I don't even presume it. I personally don't care if he is. I'm just repeating what he told me because it was a good story. The rest of you did the research for me. Thank you.
Strikes me as a bit elitist to deny that Huxley wrote some novels that could be classified as sci-fi. Of course, as a writer, he was much more than that. However when I read namedujour's post, I assumed he was classified that way for symmetry, to improve the story.
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I heard this story too but without any personal connections.
I used to be a housesitter for a woman who was a long-time Scientologist and I would peruse the brochures that came to the house about the courses available and the costs and I have to admit that if I had had any money I might have been sucked in. The idea of being a kind of superior being with no hang-ups or engrams was very attractive. I was always asking her why it was so expensive and the only answer I ever got was because it is and that's that.
The competition was with Robert Heinlein, not It wasn't Aldous Huxley. Heinlein gave a stab at it with "Stranger in a Strange Land." Fans still "grok" his famous works.
I did a little more research and apparently it wasn't Heinlein either. The myth may have been generated from a comment by Harlan Ellison.
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1276839
Thank you, Margot. I figured just as much! If I wanted to make quick money, can I make up say... workism? A religion for work-a-holics. Justify their ends by means and publish it! Work your buns off for the greater good! There I go! I'm set for life! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! (Nearly falling off my chair with amusement). People need a life!
It shouldn't matter who made a drunken bet with whom... stop getting mucked up in details and get to the heart of the controversy: scientology was created by a sci-fi writer who made a bet with (possibly various peers in various circles at various times) to see if one can create a religion solely on the basis of making money. He had proven that it worked. And the results have been an eye opener.
No doubt Hubbard is burning in hell.
But his Scientology/Science fiction writings are very much alive polluting the Sirius Satelite radio Book Channel. I think thy must own the whole thing.
No he's been reincarnated into the body of South Park's Stan Marsh.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1529878/southpark_vs_scientology/
Everyone, I assume, has heard of Catch 22?
I've coined Catch 44 for ALL religions. It's the opposite of 22. With 22 you can't get in. With 44 you can't get out. No matter what reason you use, it comes down to SIN or what ever version of SIN that org. is using.
Therefore: ALL religions are for the weak. No matter what "good deeds" they do, all they do is replace one addiction for another. But actually strengthen their payers -- never.
Give something for people to believe in... (shrug) I guess religion is supposed to be a moral guideline for living. Prayer is just a basic sense of pulling your thoughts into a focused compass. I seriously think it's funny to see people in a grave yard talking to a block of etched stone as if it is their passed loved one. What is the meaning of life? Life is what you make of it... That is all. The end. Amen. So be it... whatever you want to close with.
You clearly don't understand Christianity. Given that, you probably don't understand any other either.
I was raised not to knock anyone's religion, but in my mind Scientology isn't a religion. While I'm not sure about Tom Cruise (his existence is baffling, though interesting), John Travolta has always come off as a very good and grounded person, as well as very intelligent. One wonders what type of enlightenment he could receive from the doctrines of a crazy old man. I hope in light of his son's recent death, he will take stock of his life and hopefully see that he may well be a pawn in the Scientology puzzle. I wish him Godspeed in his and his family's recent tragedy. God's richest blessings to you and yours, John.
Interesting story with Travolta....you see---when he was a young fresh faced kid in Hollywood, he was part of a very nice and nurturing GAY community....well, here is where it gets intriguing. Hubbard was a HOMOPHOBE. Ask any Ex Scientoloist. Hubbard may not have acknowledged such maladies as Depression or Autism, but he wrote a great deal about the mental aberration known as Homosexuality.....it is well known in Scientology that this 'sickness' can be 'audited out' at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am sure that Travolta was sucked into that cauldron of deceit many many years ago. Chances are, whatever his sexual preferences are, they are Private and not some mental disorder. I believe, from what I have read, that the same holds true for Cruise, who used to have a bit of a reputation for partying with a crowd of gay men....not exactly a terrible mental illness....I cannot really explain why I am writing this other than the fact that i was wrapped up in that horrible mess for years-in my case over drug addiction issues. I knew many people who were in a similar position. First, you take the famous 'personality test' and they convince you, that you need help....like you cannot communicate well, or that you are not living to your full potential etc. They get you to feel like you cannot live without them...it is the worse of all addictions....a mental addiction. I hope Travolta can pull out Scientology. Such a great and talented man and so full of pain from the loss of his son. I hope he can see the light at the end of the tunnel. He does not need a crutch like the pure cult of Scientology to pull him down (and make really dumb movies like Battlefield Earth, which has been voted the worst movie in history.)
Yes-your timing of the article was poor....should have waited a couple of weeks till this MJ thing 'dies' (sorry) down.
Thanks, for sharing your thoughts on this. Hoping that you are still managing to stay away from drugs. It is really sad that these cults and religions choose to condemn groups because of some inside knowledge that they, and only they, have.
and don't forget will smith.
the rumors of his gayness have been out there forever.
am i seeing a trend? gay, macho, leading men actors turning to scientology to "ungay" themselves?
Fascinating. Scientology is like Mormonism on speed. No doubt Joseph Smith was L. Ron Hubbard's model in writing a "new" testament full of scifi. And the cognitive dissonance between image and reality is the same.
It seems that religion will forever and always be a touch topic.Every religion has allegations of what people may or may have not done. It seems that Scientology has been taken criticism because they are the new and popular religion.What I am trying to understand, or question is why The Daily Beast is being one-sided. Why not interview Scientologist and receive both stories from both sides.This post seems to be more gossip than news.
jenniferH, do you realy believe that any Scientologist would submit to an interview on The Daily Beast or any other site/publication?
Come on now.
JenniferH - TDB is not journalism; every posting is one-sided. That way they get the attack dogs from the other side to flood the blogs, which in turn brings out the defenders. It's their business/publishing model.
religion?
That's a stretch.
It's sad when one of the best news sites report such gossip information.These are just allegations and are not factual information. It is so not true that people cannot own cellphones, watch television, or surf the Web.It's very sad that this is even posted here on the site.All the claims are so untrue and this post is so misleading. It is so one-sided.
Indeed Andrea, some of the facts in the article are off. For instance, you can use the net and own a cell phone if you're a public Scientologis, but definitely not if you're in the Sea Org. And the wonderful Tory Bezazian was actually in for 30 years. It's all self-help up front and space opera on the back end . . . once you've spent all your money. And if you think it's not space opera, listen to "The Commodore's" own words on the true nature of our system . . .
http://vimeo.com/1227000
This commentary is dangerously one-sided -- it almost supposes that the allegations are true when they have yet to be proven. I am not a Scientologist, but I believe in coexisting and respecting the chosen religion of people. Before we jump in and make conclusions, let us remember that the accusations right now are merely that, accusations, with no substantial evidence to back it up. Let's give Scientology a chance to air their side.
These aren't just allegations. These are allegations from the one-time, SECOND-IN-COMMAND OF SCIENTOLOGY. Miscavige's right hand man. And this gossip information is the result of an extensive bit of journalism on the part of the St. Petersburg Times.
Until Scientology can offer SUBSTANTIVE evidence that these claims (physical abuse resulting in death/extensive harassment tactics/etc) are false rather than the same character attacks they always rely on, they DESERVE all the attention they are getting.
Wow! Never thought Daily Beast would talk about religion. Religion is a real tricky topic because in all aspect, it is a belief. It seems that this post is very one sided.Also why not create a post of all allegations for all religions? That would be a better post than to target one religion, just a thought. Has anyone seen the Scientology commercials?I think that they are pretty cool.
Religion? This is not religion.
I'm just thrilled no one has gotten out of line on this board yet. I enjoy debating religion, but find it disturbing when people become excessively negative in personal attacks. Or worse, threaten violence. So, Bravo to the posters, who have kept this board 'clean'.
If I wanted to be a mindless optimist and be cut off from the rest of the world, I'd go hide in the Maine woods, build me a little camp, sit on the front porch in a rocking chair with a double barrel shot gun in my lap and shoot at everything that moves!
Religions and cults are different. A religion can be left without retribution. A cult cannot be left behind. You choose to believe a religion. You are manipulated into a cult.
Scientology is a cult.
I respectfully disagree Hawnzz.
Islam is considered one of the "major" religions.
Yet, if you leave, you are beheaded.
Nice try though.
Once on a trip to San Jose on business I happened upon one of those Kiosks where a Scientology rep was offering a stress-test. The lady asked me if I would try the test and being game to new experiences I tried it. My finger was stuck into a contraption and I was asked different questions. As I doing this it became apparent the the deal was she would show me how stressful I was and present the position that Scientology was THE way I could rid myself of the stress that was prohibiting me to reach my full potential. The results were calculated and low and behold my results were the lowest levels of stress that particular lady had ever seen. This intrigued her and she started asking my about my spiritual beliefs. I spent the next hour talking to her about Christianity and faith. I'm not sure what if any impact our discussion had, but it clear she really didn't know about the non-media Christianity I spoke of. She said it had opened her eyes and thanked me for the taking the time to discuss it with her.
It just makes me wonder how many followers of Scientology made an actual studied and thoughtful decision about their spiritual belief - one their core principles...
That is a fascinating exchange - makes you wonder what happened next. Not sure they could reconcile the idea of Jesus exorcising body thetans...
If you're a Christian then you dont't have too much room to talk, what you believe is just as absurd as the tooth fairy.
And you keep on believing that because you will be sorry in the end.
I'm getting sick of these posters flaming the big three religions and trying to compare them to scientology. Yes, all religions require you to have beliefs in things that require a certain faith to believe in, since there isn't any concrete evidence behind it. But the only paying you do in a religion such as christianity is putting a couple bucks in an offering plate. In my experience, this money goes towards things like paying electric bills, compensation for the pastor of the church, and missionaries. And it isn't a lot of money.
Try comparing that with the thousands of dollars a year that scientology requires.
Not only that, but anyone at any time, without any kind of subscription, could pick up a Bible or Torah, etc, and find out EVERYTHING there is to know about a religion that is in print. That's a monumental difference.
You only need hear Hubbard in his own words to decide that indeed, space is wild . . . and Scientology is full of crap.
http://vimeo.com/1227000
Thank you.
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