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10 Best Quotes From Vanity Fair's Palin Profile
Manuel Balce Ceneta / AP Photo
Sarah Palin is in the news again, this time as the subject of a magazine feature. Heres what everyone's talking about.
Todd S. Purdum’s Vanity Fair piece on Sarah Palin hit the newsstands yesterday. It has caused quite a stir among the political chattering classes. With Weekly Standard editor William Kristol, McCain-Palin adviser Steve Schmidt and McCain foreign-policy adviser Randy Scheunemann each getting in on some post-publication finger-pointing.
What’s all the fuss about?
The Daily Beast brings you the top 10 quotations from the nearly 10,000-word article.
1. “I don’t care how talented she is, this is really a leap.” That’s Barack Obama, who told his aides it took him four months to learn the ropes on the national scene, describing the challenge that Palin confronted.
“Little Shop of Horrors.” The nickname given to Palin by one McCain friend.
2. “Little Shop of Horrors.” The nickname given to Palin by one McCain friend.
3. “I don’t give a damn what she does.” So said former two-term governor of Alaska Walter Hickel.
4. “Was it possible that she was experiencing postpartum depression?” This one is Todd Purdum, presenting the concerns of some “top aides” that Palin was struggling after the recent birth of her son, Trig.
5. “I don’t think she could figure out who to trust.” Here’s a McCain friend on Palin’s inability to listen to her staffers.
6. “Are those John’s wishes?” Palin wanted to know if it was McCain who didn’t want her to give a concession speech on the night of the election.
7. “Remember, her nickname in high school was ‘Barracuda.’” Alaska state senator Lyda Green on Palin’s instincts.
8. “Trig’s Creator, Your Heavenly Father.” Palin’s email signoff in an email to friends announcing the birth of her son.
9. “Check my feet for horseshoes if I have to sit there and listen to another talk show.” Former top Palin aide John Bitney on the direction of Palin’s family affairs.
10. “You sort of want a guy who’s very easygoing, gives good advice, and doesn’t add to the natural nervousness.” Speechwriter Mark Salter on The Daily Beast’s Mark McKinnon and his previously undisclosed role coaching Palin before her first debate against Joe Biden.
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Sarah Palin and Michael Jackson....the gifts (circus) that just keeps giving.......
At least they've knocked Jon & Kate off the front page.
heard of persians?
Wasn't Obama's high school nickname "Barry the Bomber" for his 3 point shooting skills and for his early friendship with weatherman Bill Ayers?
We never looked into his teenage associations enough. Who did he smoke with behind the art building?
These days, In the Rockies they call him 'chinook'.
Can't imagine the nicknames for Bush and the blowhard Neocons.
On the assumption that this is not a put-on, Obama went to high school in Hawaii, and didn't meet Bill Ayers until he moved to Chicago AFTER graduating from Harvard Law.
I suppose you have a problem with his birth certificate, too.
THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS A PROBLEM WITH HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS HIM, ANY OTHER PERSON, BORN AND LIVING IN THE US, WILL GLADLEY PRODUCE HIS OR HER CERTIFICATE. THE LAST TIME HE USED IT WAS TO GET A SCHOLORSHIP AS A FOREIGN STUDENT???????????????????
jyrenejim, you can't still be repeating that lie about Obama's birth certificate? Boy, you people believe ANYTHING! His birth certificate has been shown MANY TIMES on tv. Why don;t you watch the news on MSNBC of CNN instead of FOX (the GOP mouthpeice), then you'd get the truth instead of wingnut opinions.
Once and for all - A copy of OBAMA'S BIRTHCERTIFICATE HAS BEEN PRESENTED SEVERAL TIMES - BILL OREILLY EVEN SHOWED IT SEVERAL TIMES ON HIS PROGRAM. IT SHOWS THAT HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII IN 1961. Believe it or not, Hawaii has been a state since August 21, 1959 and before that it was a US territory since 1898 - have you forgotten the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 - Pearl Harbor is in Hawaii. This persistent question about his birth certificate is hysterically funny - it's also sad because it seems that half the country needs a geography lesson.
jyrenejim, this page is about Sarah Palin and her incompetence, inability to take the heat, and being able to dish it out but not take it.
You Birthers should be ashamed of yourselves. So many problems confronting our country and this smart, kind, good man was elected by a landslide and all you "people" can do is whine about some birth certificate myth.
No matter how many times it is shown to you and verified, you claim there's another one. Write a screenplay about your conspiracy theory and you will soon see that it has no legs at all. Then look at yourself and root out what ugly thing makes you focus on these false and unfair accusations! It distracts from solving the country's problems together and makes you look ignorant.
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Don't knock warm beer...it helps with the burping.
and...global warming is a MYTH disseminated by left coast elites to destroy the Great State of Texas and Exxon!
Is this the best you can come up with? Postings like this make you look like the jerk, not your target.
Palin's "associations" include the Alaska Independence Party from whom she was trying to back-peddle during the campaign, Wasilla cronies whom she placed in positions of authority (e.g., head of the debt-laden AK state dairy who liked cows!), awful appointees (e.g., her first AG who had to step down because he had advised Todd and Palin staffers to ignore subpoenas from the legislature on the Troopergate affair or her more recent nomination of Ross as AG -- the only nominee for state office ever to be rejected). These aren't facts from her teen years. These reflect the judgments of the adult Palin.
P.S. Have you ever bothered to look at the Foundation's Board of Directors on which Obama and Ayers served together? There are several prominent Republicans.
its great the way you knock her appointments like she is the only politico to appint a friend ....... how many career staffers in the travel office lost their jobs when Hillary wanted her friends in there ..... and so on and so on ......
Who cares who Obama smoked with behind the art building...He could have taken the short bus to school and he still would be 100s of times more capable than Sarah Palin! How sad for you conservatives that she's your best hope for 2012!
Couldn't have said it better!!!
ok i scrolled back and didn't see where anyone said she was the best choice ..... or a choice at all for that matter. i'm not a conservative or a liberal .... but i am a comic so i hope she does run Teddy, can drive her to Dicks house for the hunting trip.... (teeth)
It wasn't smoking. It was cocaine and I believe he was having a few lines with your buddy George W Bush. Of course we now know that if you snort enough coke, you can actually look into other peoples' souls as well as hear jesus christ whisper which countries he wants you to invade.
Just say no, right?
Yuk, yuk. What a card.
PS Don't you mean WHAT did he smoke, with who? Geez, get the punchline right....
Get a life.
"Check my feet for horseshoes if I have to sit there and listen to another talk show." Former top Palin aide John Bitney on the direction of Palin's family affairs.
Are you sure he didn't say "snowshoes"? I don't get it. Please, someone explain.
Yeah. Unless Mr. Bitney is a satyr I'm pretty sure that's a misquote/typo. Or at least I hope it is.
I originally wondered if it meant he was make an oblique reference to the amount of horseshit he felt was being thrown around on the talk shows. Now you have me scratching my head - I guess I don't get it either.
I took the "horseshoes" reference to mean a "donkey" aka "ass", because they wear horseshoes. Don't know if that is what he meant, but that's how I read it.
I think it means if he hears it one more time, it would feel as if he is standing in a pile of horse do-do.
I also thought it may be something like, "If I hear that one more time, I'll be a horse's a$$."
CAN WE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT HER! HER 15 ARE UP! MAKE HER GO AWAY!
Trust me she ain't going anywhere. And as long as we all keep "clicking on" to read any article that has the word Palin in it, they will keep publishing more articles.
Palin: The person we love to hate.
Hawnzz, I think your plee is akin to asking them to hold back the ocean tide.
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to Dilapidated
Good one!
I've enjoyed many funny lines attached to this comment thread, but yours is the best. I've never heard that one about the dead horse getting back up before, but I am sure I'll be using it from now on -- hope you don't mind. I don't know, though, if it will ever be as appropriate as it was used here, in reference to Palin.
Regarding "Trig's Creator, Your Heavenly Father." Palin's email signoff in an email to friends announcing the birth of her son.
Just wondering if Sarah, in a post-partum mind set with a less-than-perfect child, was attributing her son Trig's condition to God, distancing herself from being the Mom and Trig's earthly creator. Kind of like, "this is God's child, He created him, not me." Many parents of children with disabilities struggle with rationalizing the answer to the question "Why my child and why me?", and perhaps in this case, it was "God did it. God created this child" Keith Olbermann may have it wrong; this may not be Sarah signing off as God, but signing off as a parent distancing herself from her part in creating this child and throwing the blame (not that there is any blame to throw) to God. Perhaps?
We parents of disabled children correctly do not "blame" God for our children's various conditions. Fundamentalist Christians (Gov. Palin clearly fits the profile) and Right-to-Life advocates believe in a continuum of life from conception until death with no asterisks or carveouts for those with disabilities. And as to true believers in a Heavenly Father, there is a fundamental belief that we are all "Children of God?" One would have to have been raised outside of America's mainstream to misunderstand Governor Palin or cynically choose to throw verbal bombs like Olbermann in regard to Palin's reference to Trig's Creator
YOU are not Palin. You are not the narcissist described well on this site. YOU did not take a risky plane flight after your water broke, drive from the airport to have a child (known in advance as a special-needs child) delivered by a doctor who doesn't regularly perform births.
Palin knowingly put her child at risk and was unsuccessful in having a stillborn child, about whom she would then have claimed the death to be God's will.
Poor Sarah Palin. She should have never had a child while in peri-menapause. The chance of having a down syndrome child is ONE IN TWELVE at this time.
But she let her church decide whether to carry this child to term or abort. Let them help her raise this child! This is when abortion is right whether other people like it or not.
your thinking way to hard about a personal email she sent to "friends"
I say things to friends at times that only they would understand ..... one of those .... "you hadda be there" moments .... and as soon as I get paroled I will see those friends again
To me, she sees herself as the Virgin Mary and her son as God....I thought she was just stupid before, but this info and her,impulsive act and incoherent resignation speech/ramblings make me think this woman is decompensating!
sarah needs to find a good barber
It kills me that she is still a story. We know she crippled their campaign with her antics. She continues to hurt the party. Why do I still read these things? I'm sick. I also read what Megan McCain writes. Why? I need help. I want to ignore them but I can't.
"I don't care how talented she is, this is really a leap"...this from the guy who was US Senator about 3 years before he began running and before that as state senator couldn't make a decision on about 130 votes. He voted "present" not 25 times, not 50 times, not 100 times....130 times he couldn't make a choice and we elect him to the highest office in the land because he sounds good. Now that's a leap.
Regarding the obviously emotional decision for Palin to keep and rear her down syndrome baby, why are we mocking the faith of a mother that made a courageous choice like that? What can you find in the character of that choice that deserves scorn?
Next you should have the top ten stupid things that Joe Biden has said...
Dude, Obama wasn't criticizing Palin personally, he was offering *gasp* empathy for someone in in her position leaping to the national spotlight essentially overnight, on the basis that it took him years to feel comfortable on the national stage. ODS, much?
And who the hell has "mocked" Palin's decision to keep her kid? People are understandably weirded out by her signing an email about Trig with "Trig's creator, the heavenly father." If you don't think that is a strange thing to do, well than I think you're a bit weird too. But don't create strawmen here over it; the trope that legions of liberals made fun of Palin for not aborting Trig is pure Republican mythology and I challenge you to find any support for it outside the most extreme quarters of the political left.
Finally, I'm sure the Beast would be happy to run this type of top ten list for Joe Biden if he volunteers to be featured in a major national publication and says a bunch of things that are weird or outright stupid. Again, do you hear the rustling of straw everywhere you go RNichols?
Yes, its the God reference that is what is strange. Makes one think "psycho".
I never heard anyone say she should or should not have aborted her child either. They are the ones who used the child as a marketing tool, calling it courageous to keep it. What is courageous about it, don't we all love our children?
And it was quite a leap for Palin entering the scene. She herself must have experienced as a leap, because it was one!
Obviously Palin was making the point that God allows suffering and Trig is not a mistake. She communicated this to her supporters who would clearly understand the point she was making. Keith Olberman and others are taking this and mocking it. That was my point. When someone makes a hard decision that is noble why are we mocking her?
Biden has said so many stupid things we can barely keep track of them...
RNichols - again, no one is "mocking" Palin for making a "hard decision." We are mocking her because it's freaking weird to sign off on an email in the persona of God.
And it doesn't matter that if it was an email only met for her supporters or even if it was meant for only one person to read, Palin was running for VP, to represent everyone. And most of that "everyone" finds such a narcissistic signature to be pretty damned disturbing.
So, sugarbiscuit, you seriously believe that rather than making the spiritual point that God is sovreign and allowed Trig's condition so that her friends can find peace in that... she instead was being narcissistic and trying to say to them "I am God" using the words "Heavenly Father" ? You really believe that was her intention?
"The narcissist is described as turning inward for gratification rather than depending on others, and as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, and prestige. Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to self-centeredness. It is also colloquially referred to as 'the God complex'".
Yep, that pretty well describes Palin in my perception. One of the ironies of people like Palin who use religious faith as a method to achieve power and prestige, is that it seems the closer she thinks she is to God, the more she seems to believe she is God.
Go and actually read the Vanity Fair piece, it's well-written and well-sourced and it may open your eyes to how ridiculous the notion of this woman having any real power in this country really is.
Voting "present" doesn't mean you can't decide. From what I understand, it means they read it, but there is something in it that needs to be changed, something unrelated has been tucked into the bill and needs to be removed, etc. It is something in his favor that he would not vote blindly, but was actually reading all the details. Present means he read it!
I don't see what was courageous about Palin reference to God for her son's condition. If you know that you are taking a gamble on the quality of your child's life by your choices, it is your responsibility, not something you can attritube to God.
I have heard others who drank or smoked when they were pregnant say it was up to God if their child was born with defects because of their choices.
This isn't that much different, it was a gamble she took. I personally think the wiser choice would have been to not get pregnant at that age if you know there is a greater possibility of that happening. It a little bit strikes me as child abuse to not be more careful.
130 times he liked the bill but thought it should be changed? ...please..
Jane, you ignorant slut.
So, what is your excuse. Why didn't someone put you out of your misery a long time ago. I don't think your quality of life must be very good since you have such a hard, cold heart. Who made you God, anyway.
Sans - don't take the bait from clowns like RNichols. This story is not about Obama nor Biden, but the crazy ass shit that Palin has done and continues to do. It's called diversionary tactics and is a wholly dishonorable way to debate the sanity of Governor Palin.
Point A: a bunch of craziness from Palin - what's up with that?
Point B: Palin supporters rush not to defend her indefensible craziness, but instead introduce irrelevant points like Obama's voting record while a senator and "Hey, what's up with Biden, huh?"
Point C: some poor sane person engages the diversion and finds themselves defending said irrelevancy, thereby making it appear relevant.
so now she is a narcisstic child abuser who thinks she is god that should run for president ..... i really need a scorecard
What would anyone expect from Vanity Fair?? Being a strict Independent, along with 70% of the country, I sit back and laugh at the "MANHATTEN PRESS & SOCIAL CLUB" as they are absoultely scared to death of a person like Governor Palin. The very thought of a woman being Conservitive, a mother, a political leader who has made accomplishments in her state, very attractive, sharp mind (otherwise "THE CLUB" would not try so hard to discredit her intelect), and on top of this she likes to hunt and fish and attend low life clam bakes with the common person!!! Get real, they cannot have this type of woman representing "The Modern Woman"!!!! She is just too lowley to be invited to the local tea gossip group, she just would not fit in with "The Club". It is time the Norteast learned that they will no longer control the mainstream thought process, as everyone is trying to escape the hordes of what "The Club" has given them, that is also, why the media is in so much financial trouble, and businesses such as mine refuse to support the crazyness by purchasing advertisement. It is only a matter of time when "The Manhatten Media & Social Clubs" will only be a distant relic memory, and the rest of the country will be better for it. Happy 4th of July, May God Bless Our Great Country and All The Military personnel who are defending her, and us.
Those women like me who think Palin was not up to the job of VP still like her for her spunk and speaking ability. I can't agree with her fundamentalist religious views or her politics, but I think she could be a spokesman for the handicapped.
It was her religious views that made her bear a down syndrome child and I am sorry for her decision because she will influence other women who are not in the same position as she is (with help and financial security) to go through with this kind of pregnancy. Whether you believe it or not, abortion is sometimes the right decision!
I don't like her for anything. She's fake and John McCain never vetted her. She can't crack a book. TO THIS DAY she still doesn't know the job description of a V.P. which about two or three sentances long on the first page of the Constitution. She's a sham and her spunk doesn't impress me because it's fake and used for, in my opinion, evil purposes.
Umm, I think its "ManhattAn.......
How smug you are to dismiss a person who was president of the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law, worked in a national law practice and was a successful community organizer on behalf of disenfranchised blacks and whites. How smug of you to ignore Obama's several accomplishments after only five months in office.
Get ready to provide a list of the many accomplishments of his predecessor, that paragon of ideals and strategy, that accomplished wordsmith who left us great thoughts, that foreign affairs expert who brought us successful relationships with Iran, North Korea and Pakistan, that economics expert who delivered us from an economic meltdown, that defender of civil liberties.
Please do tell us how we are so badly off now because we had it SO good for the last eight years.
RNichols ...... you really expect to narrow that list down to ten???? maybe if its a daily list haha
as far as Sarah and her baby ..... thats off limits ..... its no ones buisness but her and Todd
To RNichols:
Are you Sarah Palin? If not, you certainly do a perfect imitation of her ETERNAL VICTIM/PERSECUTED MARTYR persona. Please desist. Thank you.
Wow you liberals are so tolerant of other views...
I'm not an Obama koolaid drinker so I dared to make a point that departed from the administration's talking points. Didn't realize that wasn't aloud.
Oh, you're certainly free to carry on all you want, but you'd be better served by consulting with a mental health professional. SERIOUSLY. You have some major infatuation with Palin going on. I believe she's already happily married.
RNichols - sugarbisquit & goldengateview are your typical liberals. No brains just mouth. They attempt to talk but only know how to insult. You may or may not remember the Valley Girls from long ago. Well, if you do that is what these airheads are. Bobble Heads!
It always amazes me how people who so proudly trumpet other people's lack of intelligence will do so in a wholly idiotic, incoherent manner.
that's okay, that was Bush's way, you can think and speak freely now and no longer have to defend an empty platform and evil agenda. Your Free!
please desist??? are the amendments different for RNi???
hey giantphan - you can type all the questions marks your little heart desires, but the amendments don't apply to interactions between private parties. that's how sites like this can ban people without getting sued. Palin had this same problem over the Letterman flak, taking pains to note that he had a First Amendment right to say whatever he wants, when that is entirely irrelevant. now, she's a dolt; what's your excuse?
To RNichols,
Ummm....she made no 'choice' to keep Trigg. She doesn't believe in a woman's right to choose, remember?
So, there was nothing courageous about it.
You make my point. In an age when people like you are championing the right to kill unborn children, she could have easily had it done, but instead, because of her belief that God breathes life into babies in the womb, she made a difficult choice that was not popular but consistent with her religious faith.
Again, RNichols, please explain why Palin's choice to give birth to a child with down syndrome was "not popular." Provide one example of any corner that roundly denounced Trig's birth as wrong. Or is this theory of yours just as fantastical as your ideas on how life is created?
And you really swing and miss on ColorBox's philosophical point - if choosing to have an abortion is not even an option to Palin because she abhors abortion, then she really did not make "a difficult choice."
There was no choice for her due to her personal feelings and beliefs, which is completely consistent with the Pro-Choice philosophy. I'm a pro-choicer and I'm glad that Palin had the option of choosing an abortion, regardless of the fact that she would never pick that option.
The fact that you keep referring to Palin's decision to not abort as a "choice" only clarifies the importance of guaranteeing that right for millions of women who might actually consider the option of abortion based on their own beliefs and circumstances, not out of some sense of duty to your silly superstitions.
Sugarbiscuit, it is Palin's belief in the sanctity of life that is unpopular in the media and though it wasn't roundly denounced, Trig's birth was definitely snickered at by the left.
Everything we do is a choice whether it is according to our standards or not. We all know what we believe is right but that doesn't mean we always do it. My point is that you can preach a message and then there comes a time when it is hard to live it. She made the difficult choice and walked her talk.
Why mock our faith? Is any faith that disagrees with you a silly superstition?
RNichols, until you provide me with ONE example (just one) of a mainstream media person or outlet "snickering" over Palin giving birth to Trig, I'm going to continue to categorize this "point" you think you're making as wholly imaginary.
You know, the vast majority of people who support a woman's right to choose also belief in the sanctity of life, they just don't belief women should die in its defense.
And yes, saying "God breathes life into babies in the womb" is a silly superstitious explanation of how life is created. What is this, the 15th century? You do realize that any time you rely on a supernatural explanation for how the natural world works, you are being superstitious, right?
God "breathes life into babies in the womb"? What about all the 'spontaneous abortions', commonly called miscarriages. God must not care about them because there are more spontaneous abortions than live births! Also, what about all those embryos or eggs that are expelled by every woman every month from puberty to menepause? Doesn't God care about them, either? Grow up. Just like fish who lay thousands of eggs to make sure 2 or 3 survive, women are born with 100,000 eggs in their wombs and use, what ? 2 or 3? All those eggs not used are expendable.
This whole argument about abortion is a way for men to control women. Well they don't control me or my decision to have children or not.
"God breathing life into babies" is a poetic way of saying that God ordains life. The point being that some believe God initiates life at conception and yes He sometimes allows death. Allowing death doesn't mean He doesn't care because He allows everyone to die at some point. The religious belief that I was referring to is the idea that only God can initiate life so only He should terminate life.
It's impossible to say that you believe in the sanctity of human life and simultaneously sanction the termination of human life.
I don't want to control women but I do want to let babies live.
If any supernatural explanation is superstition to you, sugarbiscuit, then you must be an athiest. That answers my question as to why you're ok with faith being mocked.
What many on the left are missing is that the decision to raise a child with Down's Syndrome is a very hard one. My mother was told by her doctor that my brother would never learn to dress himself, and that she should put him in an institution and forget she ever had him. Making opportunities for Kevin has been a full-time job for her (in addition to her 50 hour work week). It is not a decision to take lightly.
RNichols makes a valid point when he says that doing what you believe to be the right thing isn't always easy. Palin did make a choice to deliver Trig. He seems to think her religious belief is the sole or predominant factor in her decision. He doesn't seem to consider that to have an abortion after making a political career on a "pro-life" position, would be problematic at best. When you put these two points together. 1) that she would destroy her career if she had an abortion and 2) that her God would punish her (does she believe in eternal damnation?) if she had an abortion, her choice doesn't seem that courageous to me.
I think that Palin made a difficult choice, and made the right one. I think trying to make political point on it is kinda cheap.
"It's impossible to say that you believe in the sanctity of human life and simultaneously sanction the termination of human life."
By that definition, even Palin doesn't believe in the sanctity of human life. She supports capitol punishment.
Heck, if you can't justify killing in ANY context, you can't have a war, no matter how just, no matter how many WMDs there are, no matter how many terrorist live there, how nasty the dictator, no matter who struck first. I personally struggle with this one, because I am too liberal for my own good.
The "sanctity of human life" is a canard. Nobody believes in it anymore. Even the Pope believes in just war (he just hasn't seen any lately).
Well, RNichols, I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic. Do you ever get tired of always presuming the wrong things?
And I can declare that believing supernatural explanations for the way the natural world operates is superstition without dedicating my life to disproving the existence of God. You do understand what an atheist is, right?
And we are still waiting for your single example of the mainstream media mocking and ridiculing Palin for giving birth to Trig. I suggest Google.
"It's impossible to say that you believe in the sanctity of human life and simultaneously sanction the termination of human life."
So, taking this statement to its logical conclusion, you don't support war under any grounds, the death penalty, or even abortions when the mother's life is endangered?
"I don't want to control women but I do want to let babies live."
Well, I'm sorry RNichols, but you don't get to have both. There is a choice there. To tell a woman to carry to term a fetus that is non-viable outside of her body is to control her by denying her bodily autonomy.
Let me ask you this RNichols: if you had something in your body that posed an immense amount of responsibility emotionally, financially, etc., which you were not prepared to take on, how would you feel about a bunch of strangers ordering you to take on that responsibility despite it being your body, your mind, your emotions, your finances, your life, all because of their supernatural belief that this part of your body is precious because it was created by the breath of an invisible spirit they worship?
CONTROL WOMEN?????? Newswoman i'm happily married for 21 years ..... five kids (one lil girl ..... and yes i'm wrapped lol)
I can't get her to put butter on my toast in da morning and you think I can control her eggs????? we have a diplomatic relationship....
we discuss things two, three, sometimes four hours before we do it her way.
you show me a man who says he can control women, and i'll show you a several divorced lonely man
giantphan - the issue is not individual men controlling the women in their life, it's the religious right demanding the State control women by coercing them into carrying unwanted pregnancies to term. there's kinda a vast difference between your individual power over your personal relationships and the power of the State to enforce a ban on all abortions.
Sugarbiscuit, if you were an agnostic then that would mean you don't think that you can know if there's a supernatural element in life. But you said that any belief in the supernatural is silly superstition. If you still stand by that, then that makes you a naturalist, and by definition, an athiest.
That's why you and journalists in the media elite who have the same view can so easily mock people of faith and their hard choices(as evidenced by #8 above from the VF article). Making my previous point that Palin's choice to keep and rear her down-syndrome child was courageous and noble and consistent with the views she champions. Unlike liberals who claim to be tolerant of all views but are only tolerant of those they are sympathetic with. There's nothing noble about selective tolerance.
Just war and the death penalty are both examples of self-defense which is totally consistent with the sanctity of human life. However, a dependent unborn human life, no matter how much it inconveniences me, is innocent and therefore should be protected by the law from termination.
"Sugarbiscuit, if you were an agnostic then that would mean you don't think that you can know if there's a supernatural element in life. But you said that any belief in the supernatural is silly superstition. If you still stand by that, then that makes you a naturalist, and by definition, an athiest."
That's not what Agnosticism is at all. There's two parts to Agnostic belief, generally, and you conveniently leave off the second part to suit your presumptions about me. Yes an agnostic generally believes that the existence or nonexistence of a deity is completely unknowable because it is impossible to prove or disprove, therefore (and here's the key part) agnosticism refers to knowing, while atheism refers to actual belief (i.e., the belief that God does not exist).
I call the portions of your Christian faith which are supernatural "superstitious" because that's what they are (a belief or notion not based in reason or knowledge).
See, I think words and belief systems should actually have rational meaning. I can still marvel at the creation of life without referring to it as a "miracle" (which it isn't, by definition) and value life intrinsically as a basic moral principle without having to qualify it with "because my church/bible says so."
Religious faith serves no purpose any more. It's irrelevant. It was created to explain the world when the world was unexplainable. Then as that reality changed due to advances in human knowledge, religion continued to be utilized by the rich and powerful to control the masses in order to convince them that slavery and other shackles of ignorance were fleeting miseries that would be infinitely rewarded in the great hereafter. It is my personal belief that adhering to these kind of superstitions about human worth are dangerously backwards and have no place in the modern world.
Referring to "just war" is a nice dodge of my earlier point. I specifically referred to war on any grounds. Sure, you can make an exception for just wars or wars of self-preservation, but what about all the un-just wars like Iraq or Vietnam or Mexican-American war or the Philippine-American war, or the war on the Native American population, etc. etc.? We certainly weren't preserving or defending ourselves in any of those instances, were we?
The death penalty does not, in any way, fall under the precept of "self-defense." Self-defense is a qualified defense to physically harming or killing another person. The qualification is that the claimant have reasonably believed that he or she was facing imminent death or risk of physical harm. Clearly a person who has been captured and tried for his or her crimes is under the complete control of the State cannot pose such a qualifying danger anymore. The death penalty is not about self-defense, it is about retribution. Retribution is an important aspect of our criminal justice system as victims deserve to see their assailants suffer some form of punishment for their wrongdoing - but extending that to killing is both immoral and impractical.
And, again, I await your provision of any example of the "journalists in the media elite" who openly mocked Palin for giving birth to Trig. Tick-tock.
That doesn't make sense. You can't say you're an agnostic which is someone who doesn't believe you can know and then make an absolute statement that the supernatural doesn't exist. If you declare that belief then that makes you an athiest. It's either unknowable or you can know it and declare it as true or not. (You making the classic athiest statement about religion being established by the powerful confirms this). Believing that the supernatural doesn't exist means believing that God doesn't exist.
Whether you call it self-defense or retribution, just war and the death penalty are both informed by the Biblical principle "whoever sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed" (Genesis 9:6) I don't consider neoconservative wars like Iraq to be just though I agree with going after Bin Laden in Afghanistan because of 9/11.
As I said below, #8 from the VF article is obviously meant to openly mock Palin's faith in her choice of keeping Trig...
RNichols - I believe the existence or nonexistence of God is unknowable. Therefore it is not a belief in the actual nonexistence of God, it is the belief that such an existence (or the lack thereof) is unknowable, so the point is moot. That's the difference. I can't help if you find that distinction insensible.
And yes I don't believe in the supernatural. If you choose to include God, in that field, fair enough. So are unicorns, trolls, fairies, Odin, etc., etc.
My point is that just because I choose to use my senses and my brain to determine what is real and determine that your God cannot possibly be proven to exist or not exist under that matrix does not make me an atheist.
And finally, how you think relying on the Bible is going to convince me that State-imposed death in the absence of any actual imminent threat of death or bodily harm is self-defense is ridiculous.
I think at this point (and probable well earlier), we're just talking past each other, so so long and good luck out there.
sugarbiscuit, I don't know how a god could not be supernatural....
I was not trying to convince you with Scripture but trying to show you where Christians get the ideas for just war and self-defense and how we consider it consistent with our belief in the sanctity of human life.
Can I suggest you read "The Reason for God" by Timothy Keller, for a more rational defense of Orthodox Christianity than you might have heard before. Keller's a pastor in Manhattan who has Columbia grads in his congregation so he gets asked all the hard questions. Also "The End of Reason" by Ravi Zacharias who regularly speaks at Ivy League schools.
In return I promise to read the Neo-Athiests (Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris). That way we can continue to talk past each other thru books... : )
I wish you the best as well...
I cannot believe that a supposedly reputable magazine would publish a 100,000 word piece of hate, filled with unattributed and unsubstantiated "quotes." Moreover, I find it incredible that so many people would find it entertaining to continue attacking personally a person of strong character and deep conviction. Whatever happened to the left's penchant for tolerance? It appears that the only tolerance being exhibited is for those who agree with the left's political agenda.
It would also seem to me that those who cannot appreciate Ms. Palin's willingness to sign her email "Trig's Creator, Your Heavenly Father" do not likewise hold an appreciation for her deeply-rooted beliefs. That is NOT an effort to assign "blame" for her child's condition - it is a recognition that God is the ultimate creator of all things, including life, that He is the Heavenly Father of all human beings, rich or poor, of great ability or otherwise, and that Trig, like all other human beings, carries value to God and to Ms. Palin. If you choose not to carry the same belief as Ms. Palin, that is your prerogative, but you should not be mocking her because of it. Perhaps the mocking goes on because the far left views her as a threat?
She has shown just how politally savvy she is. She is following in the Clinton/ Carville mode of immediately responding to all attacks. Michael Dukakos learned the hard way when he failed to respond to attacks. She put Letterman in his place with her interview with Matt Lauer. She should not be underestimated.
"She put Letterman in his place with her interview with Matt Lauer."
What, first place in the ratings? This might be difficult for you Palin fans to contemplate but she is not a popular person. Letterman is far and way more popular and meaningful to a far greater portion of Amercia then she is.
And Letterman handled the situation with a lot more maturity and class than she did.
Amen. Palin gave us another example of how UNHINGED she is.
sugarbiscuit - That's a load of bull----! Letterman has no maturity much less class!
EGW7777-
As soon as Letterman realized the mistake he and his writers had made in referring to the wrong Palin daughter, he immediately apologized and attempted to explain the mistake. Palin responded by refusing his apology implying that Letterman was a pedophile.
Uhh, so you're wrong.
That she kept the whole flap going after Letterman apologized is just another example of how she's desperately trying to keep her 15 minutes going.
And RNichols: If your faith accepts dinosaurs romping with the folk in the Bible, then it is just a silly superstition.
easy kids ..... play nice ..... Letterman gave a half-hearted apology a cpl days later that she ignored ...... when he finally did give a sincere apology she accepted. now lets all hold hands and sing cummbye ya ... s> sighhhhh
[sigh] the initial apology was made the very next show. it was an 8 minute explanation/apology. considering the fact that Palin had called Letterman a pedophile that very morning, it's pretty remarkable that Letterman even bothered to engage an obviously deranged person at all. yes, a few days later, Letterman made a fuller apology, but calling the initial one insincere is ridiculous.
Yeah, Letterman won that last round by giving a sincere apology that was genuine. But Sarah doesn't understand genuine. She has no class.
OMG, WTF?
almost commented but this is so hopeless.
Everyone is following the line of thinking that Sarah actually gave birth to Trig. If you read some of the research and look at the pictures posted at Palin's Deceptions, you'll get another point of view. No one knew that Sarah was pregnant until she announced it in her 7th month. Pictures show her stomach flat as a pancake and poorly "disguised" by flowing scarves weeks before giving birth. In on photo, her pregnant belly looks like a sofa cushion; you can see all four corners. Bristol mysteriously disappeared during the time that Sarah was supposed to be pregnant. Sarah's description of giving an important speech in Texas, taking two 4 hour plane rides, driving another hour to give birth, all the time leaking amniotic fluid defies belief, and certainly endangered the baby. The child was born with a number of health issues a month premature yet she took him to work to show him off to an office filled with people three days after he was born, more endangerment. There is no doubt that Trig is the son of Sarah and Todd; what we don't know is who gave birth to him. If you want to make a further guess, there were two teen aged love birds at the Republican Convention tenderly holding and kissing Trig; many people think they may be the biological parents. Given Sarah's ability to shape the truth to fit her own reality, we just don't know right now.
Are you crazy? You must believe everything you read? Either that or you lie so much in your own life that you think the whole world is like that. How do you get through life?
and then apply all you said to yourself, and you'll get it!
Lewmay, you do know to stop pushing the Q-tip deeper into your ear when you feel resistance don't you????
Monday morning when your waiting on the corner for the little bus to take you to "camp", as you adjust the straps on your helmet ..... reflect back on just how crazy that post is ..... have the several voices in your head discuss amongst themselves just how someone could pull off a deception like that without getting caught ..... especially someone as powerful as Mrs. Palin... now you go nitey nite lil buddy .....
"Little shop of horrors"...Perfect...I love it.
sugarbiscuit, there was a kink in the arguments going on awhile back. RNichols argument on the 130 votes was faulty. If that were a strong argument at all, it would have been brought up in the presidential debates. There was a clear reason why the President did what he did during those times. Even if there was some fault there, it apparantly wasn't worth pursuing then.
I do appretiate both of your writing though. Debate is so much better than one sided commentaries.
All I can say about those who keep putting Governor Palin down is they are evidently all jealous & afraid of her. She has more common sense in the tip of her little pinkie then they have & ever will have. If we had her in office now the country would be so much better off & the unemployment rate would be no where near as bad as it is now. We, also, would not be getting tax hikes & GM & Chrysler & all those banks would not have all of the tax payers money. Barney Frank would not be trying to find a way to use the return of some of the tarp money with interest that we have collected for another one of his give away programs & we would not be getting a daily briefing full of lies that tends to come out of both sides of everyone in Washington's mouth. I'm sick & tired of things getting shoved down our throats & all the idiots have to do is complain about Sarah Palin when they better wake up & look at whats going on around them. I assume they don't get it when Obama tells them they are going to have to spread the wealth & that they are going to loose their health care that is better then the government run health care that they are going to end of with so the lazy good for nothing people that won't work just want the government to take care of them can get something free. Forget all the hard years you have worked to be able to retire & live comfortably & maybe leave a little bit of money to your children. So much for our liberty & pursit of happiness in our country, the land of the brave & the home of the free. I wonder how the actors, the Diane Sawyers, the Barbara Walters, the comedians, all those that thought Obama was the coming of something are going to feel when they have to start giving up their fortunes so they can spread their wealth???????????They may think about Sarah Palin in a different way then. She tried to tell us.
LOL
I love Sarah Palin. She is such a great entertainer! I can't wait for her 2012 Presidential run so I can keep laughing at all the crazies and their crazy talk.
"All I can say about those who keep putting Governor Palin down is they are evidently all jealous & afraid of her."
Or we could believe she's just a pompous nitwit.
Well, call me a jealous coward. I had no idea till I read egw7777's comment that Palin would have solved our economic problems with her pinkie [sp], if only we had elected her VP. Now that she has decided to stop being Alaska's governor, who will keep an eye on Russia?
just her pinkie???? imagine what she could do if she used all her fingers ..... maybe a toe or two
Sarah advocates the killing of Wolves in Alaska. She offers a bounty for every right front paw of each wolve killed. She has no platform other than hypocritical pro life views, loves oil, and small government (which would be ill-run if run by her). Her big thing is spreading nasty false rumors about the president and getting ignorant people like you riled up. It's sad that people put so much stake in an evil witch like her.
leave her along she will be our next president
Keep runnin', Sarah honey, keep runnin'!
You're in way over your head.
sheddinglight
Regarding "Trig's Creator, Your Heavenly Father." Palin's email signoff in an email to friends announcing the birth of her son.
Just wondering if Sarah, in a post-partum mind set with a less-than-perfect child, was attributing her son Trig's condition to God, distancing herself from being the Mom and Trig's earthly creator. Kind of like, "this is God's child, He created him, not me." Many parents of children with disabilities struggle with rationalizing the answer to the question "Why my child and why me?", and perhaps in this case, it was "God did it. God created this child" Keith Olbermann may have it wrong; this may not be Sarah signing off as God, but signing off as a parent distancing herself from her part in creating this child and throwing the blame (not that there is any blame to throw) to God. Perhaps?
You know, I think you have a very good point. Which might explain WHY she accepted McCain's offer in the first place. It was tough, as a mother of three teens, to understand how a woman with a pregnant daughter and a disabled 4 month old infant, in addition to three other children, would accept such a challenge. It ended up humiliating her daughter, and brought questions about why she hid her pregnancy for seven months from everyone. She wasn't "celebrating" life by having Trigg, she was doing what she needed to do for her religion and political future (can you imagine if it got out she had an abortion?) So by blaming God for Trigg, she might have seen the offer by John McCain as a message from God to her...? A road she must follow?
It doesn't really matter, she's a good laugh for us on the left, and worht a cringe for the right middle--the far right loves her, but she'll never be POTUS. Sorry Sarah.
I just want to pick up on RNichols' point:
"The religious belief that I was referring to is the idea that only
God can initiate life so only He should terminate life."
How come you still have the death penalty with all these anti-abortionists being so opposed?
This is a really great top ten list, but I am now dumber for having read it. Thank goodness for Alaska and for everyone she is quitting. Anyone can post their own list to our site http://www.toptentopten.com/. The coolest feature is you can let other people vote on the rankings of your list.
Sarah is now officially the laughing stock of the 2008 presidential election, a joke in her own state, and now a joke in the media and on the national stage.
Career to nowhere, complete. - - check!
I see all the Sarah-lovers on here today only wanna talk about some guy named Barry. I don't know if they are referring to Barry Manilow, Barry White, or what. But they just don't make much sense. Which does make sense, since they worship Sarah.
What does she even stand for? She has no platform other than spreading hate about our president.
Thank you.
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