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Is Obama an American?
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Anti-Obama conspiracy theorists are gaining momentum with a new video clamoring for the president’s birth certificate. John Avlon on how the roots of the “Birther” movement lie in the 2008 campaign. Avlon is the author of Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe Is Hijacking America.
Signs of the Birthers’ grassroots conservative conspiracy-theorist momentum have popped at a town-hall meeting hosted by centrist Republican Rep. Mike Castle in Delaware.
A video of the event shows a nascent modern American know-nothing movement rallying around a crazed quest for Barack Obama’s birth certificate. It’s a perfect example of Obama Derangement Syndrome, defined as “pathological hatred for the president, posing as patriotism.”
In the clip, an unidentified woman in red stands up to ask Castle a question, brandishing a tiny American flag and her own birth certificate in a plastic bag. After some preamble, she says: “I want to go back to January 20. Why are you people ignoring his birth certificate?” At this point the crowd goes nuts, in every sense of the word.
“He is not an American citizen,” the woman continues. “He is a citizen of Kenya… I don’t want this flag to change. I want my country back!”
Mike Castle appears taken aback. After hemming and hawing a bit, he says, “If you’re referring to the president, he is a citizen of the United States.”
The video is a glimpse at the ugliest underbelly of American politics: an angry and intolerant Nativism that appeals to people’s paranoid fears of “the other.”
He is shouted down in tones that recall the crowd in Monty Python and the Holy Grail yelling, “Burn the witch!”
Castle continues: “You can boo, but he is a citizen of the United States.”
The congressman’s mild if steady attempt to tamp down this conspiracy theory reminded me of the moment in the 2008 campaign when, during a McCain town hall, an aging supporter accused Obama of being an “Arab.” McCain honorably tried to tamp down that strain of support by simply saying “no ma’am” over and over again.
It’s a sign that Republican centrists are operating at a disadvantage against the party’s wingnut fringe. There is a reluctance to take on the extreme in a full-fledged confrontation, a fight for the future direction of the Republican Party, for fear of provoking grassroots retaliation in a GOP primary. And in this there a tacit admission that the fringe is starting to overlap with the party’s base, pumped up by talk radio and the Internet, bleeding over into cable news and now town halls.
You reap what you sow, and some of this is the result of the “Obama is un-American” drumbeat that began by implication during the 2008 campaign and occasionally erupted in ugly ways, as in a should-be-infamous video taken at an October Sarah Palin rally in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. Its residue was reflected in Young Republican Eric Piker’s Facebook post calling the President “Obama bin Laden” and new YR Chairman Audra Shay’s exposed online comments that the president is “anti-American.”
Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America. By John Avlon. 304 pages. Beast Books. $15.95.
On right-wing Web sites like Free Republic, there has been not only sympathy for the “Birther in Red” from Mike Castle’s town-hall meeting, but reason for the congressman to be concerned. A comment on the site’s Bungalow Bill’s Conservative Wisdom blog offered this perspective: “Listen to this pansy congressman deal with his constituents. This congressman better be worried about his job in 2010 if this is the best answer he has, which is similar to an answer Roy Blunt gave me. Why are Republicans protecting Obama in this matter?”
Of course, it’s not the first time that what Richard Hofstadter called “the paranoid style in American politics” has reared its head. The original Know-Nothing Party of the 1850s was anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic while also waving the American flag, ultimately dubbing itself “the American Party.” And Obama Derangement Syndrome was preceded by liberals’ Bush Derangement Syndrome, a hysterical tendency to equate our then-president with Adolf Hitler.
In the Birther movement, Obama’s alleged birth in Kenya makes him the ultimate illegal alien. And when the Birther in Red speaks emotionally about her father’s service in World War II as a legacy she wants to honor and defend, she tellingly forgets that Obama’s grandfather and grand-uncles served in World War II, as well.
But the town-hall video’s most revealing moment comes when, overflowing with emotion, the Birther in Red nearly screams, “I don’t want this flag to change. I want my country back!”
She wants her country back from a man whom she sees as a usurper to the presidency in part because of his politics and his alleged subversion of the Constitution, but also in part because of his race. Somewhere slithering around is the idea that they must get this black man out of their historically white House.
The video is a glimpse at the ugliest underbelly of American politics: an angry and intolerant Nativism that appeals to people’s paranoid fears of “the other.” Its craziness is starting to seep in at the margins and affect our civil discourse. And its appearance so soon after the election does not bode well for the uniting of our country after the bitterly divided red versus blue decade, and the hope that something new might appear in the Obama era.
John P. Avlon is the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. He writes a weekly column for The Daily Beast. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
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John Avlon's new book Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America is available now by Beast Books both on the Web and in paperback. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
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John Avlon's new book Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America is available now by Beast Books both on the Web and in paperback. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
TaxTheRich
Do Republican leaders have the courage to stand up to their lunatic, wing-nut segment? John McCain did. But so far he seems to be the only one.
rickjr82
It's actually a math problem. The birth certificate isn't even needed.
Hunters (and lady fishermen) = real americans
Socialists = not hunters
Socialists = not real americans
Barack Obama= socialist
Barack Obama = not american
Barack Obama ! = POTUS
Gamblor
Any mention of Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS) without mention of the requistite progressive Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) occuring between 2000-2006 seems a bit off.
I mean, to not mention the lengths at which the left attempted to impugn the former President seems to be an error commission. Perhaps being out of power, and seeing badly made decisions causes those who care about politics to react in ways that make them more "excitable".
Of course, the Birther's only have this one issue with Obama. With Bush, it was about 50 (Bush at BushHitler, Chimpy McHalliburton, Blood for Oil, etc.). But when you're on the left, any "green shoots" of extremeism must be exposed for the good of the people.
While I don't share the zeal of these folks or their belief that Obama is a Kenyan, a simple public releasing of the birth certificate would deflate this little balloon quite quickly, wouldn't it?
http://bit.ly/s7OcA
rickjr82
Oh, I thought they released it already. And also, I thought that all of the relevant public figures in Hawaii confirmed this. Probably a big decades-long multi-party conspiracy though, that does make more sense.
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EdinNJ
False equivalencies are the domain of idiots.
Bush was not attacked relentlessly from 2000 to 2006. There was obviously alot of residual anger after his contested election. Then he proceeded to squander all the goodwill and political capital he had after 9/11 by being the most inept president in history. He compounded that by accusing his critics of being un-American.
Now Obama, 6 months into his presidency, is being attacked daily yet still retains almost 60% approval.
Republicans are out of power and they don't like it. Unlike Democrats, who had legitimate disagreements about the war, torture, personal liberties, tax cuts during wartime, and the politicization of the justice department, the Republicans have conspiracy theories and name-calling: Socialist, Fascist, un-American, Kenyan, throws like a girl, wears mom jeans. It's all designed to delegitimize Obama's presidency before it even gets off the ground.
jbo206
There was an episode of the Simpson's where the Pastor's wife ran around hysterically exclaiming "What about the children?, won't anyone think about the children?" This situation reminds me of that (except, not so funny).
- For Gamblor, the links below. This took less than two minutes to research (the first ping being the article that the author of this article wrote a few days ago. D'oh).
My conclusion is that you (& republicans like you) don't want to see what is before your very eyes.
For those of you who are independent voters, Gamblor and all the rest who proclaim "if they would only show the birth certificate" are who you are aligning yourself with every time you vote Republican. Think about it before you hit the button.
Intelligent Republicans need to stand up and shout this sort of crazy down.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
jdx60009
genomegk
Your post above is quite excellent. Really rings the bell on why the
Republican party is slippery sloping their way down the cliff. Too bad
they still don't have it figured out even now.
The attempt to paint Obama as an outsider will backfire as it becomes
more clear every day that these are the impotent protests of people who
find having a person of color running the show to be intolerable.
MrGEAH
One 1/20/2009, the left changed its tune from "Dissent is patriotic" to "Dissent is racist."
jdx60009
MrGEAH
Stupidly refusing to accept the validity of the birth certificate of the
fully vetted President of the United States is dissent? Do you have
any idea what dissent is, or are you just hitting random keys?
sonshine
"And Obama Derangement Syndrome was preceded by liberals' Bush Derangement Syndrome, a hysterical tendency to equate our then-president with Adolf Hitler." Found this little gem in the article above.
The bc has been released but you just don't want to believe that.
sophia5
Oh, and we've never heard any conspiracies from the Far Wacko Left ?
Such as the U.S. Government blew up the World Trade Center,
which would mean the government hired those Saudis to
fly planes into the towers. Insane leftists.
Cue the Rosie O'Donnell delusions.
Oh, and about that Moon Landing, that was filmed in some
studio lot according to some lefties.
"Well the United States Flag appeared stiff."
Look at the photos. There was a horizontal pole
holding the flag up.
"Yah, but there were shadows."
You think, just maybe the astronauts brought along light sources.
"Yah, but who took the pictures of the astronauts ?"
Hey, Whoopie Goldberg, ever hear of something
called a Tri-Pod.
xlntcat
Obama's birth certificate was posted on his web site for months. The state of Hawaii verified it as did the U S Department of Vital Statistics. All 50 states acknowledged its validity. CNN sent an investigator to Hawaii, verified the records and pulled his birth announcement from the newspaper archives.
This is about the ugliest underbelly of American society. Obama is black and for some, it will never be acceptable to have a black man as president or a black family residing in the WH. As was clearly demonstrated in the Sotomayor hearings, the blind hatred extends to all minorities in this country and that is unacceptable. Why do they always choose some deranged female to carry their racist water for them? This is the growing fear that old, fat white men are loosing their iron grip on controlling this country. For the record, I am caucasian.
StellaRay
Gamblor, you're not fooling anyone. We all know Obama's birth certificate was released long ago, and that this argument isn't about that at all.
What you and the rest of the republicans who have embraced these nut jobs really want is the humiliation of Barack Obama. You want to force him to go before the American people, birth certificate in hand, like no other POTUS has ever been asked to do. That's what your denial of facts is all about. It's a way to make him grovel, and you're all over it.
The silver lining here for me is that it drives you all crazy that he will not respond to your smallness.
I hope Obama NEVER utters a word about this. Absolute crickets. His silence underlines his dignity, and shows you all up for what you are---a bunch of small minded, utterly UNPATRIOTIC, low forms who can't hide the spit gathering in the corner of you mouth from salivating so hard at the thought of this president's failure.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
roger37
Jesus, North. Give us a break with the obscene, disgusting imagery, OK?
Flagged.
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robertz
As someone who voted for neither Bush or Obama, I find partisan blindness to be a fascinating creature. While each party has its share of 'wing nuts' the centers seem equally incapable of critical thinking. The litany of Bush errors and abuses seems quite accurate and I would add one more. Bush was not in control of his own administration.
This is equally true of Obama. Pelosi runs the legislative agenda with little regard for the President's wishes. The Speaker's bureaucratic power grab in current motion would beggar Cheney's imagination. Secretary Clinton is on a very long leash. Treasury officials are being outmanuevered daily by Wall Street (as in may cases they should be.) I see almost no evidence, save Guantanamo, of ANY material reversal of the Bush administrations policies. Worst of all to my eyes, the Patriot Act remains completely unattacked.
Many of us wanting to 'take this country back' simply want both parties to either wake up to their responsiblities or to just go away and ruin someone else's country. We all need to start marginizing the extremists and the cynical, jaded careerists.
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sonshine
This is going to backfire on the Republicans. Trust me. People don't want to hear all this silliness when we are in need of healthcare reform, bank reform, and so many fundamental things.
gak001
Between genomegk and joebloe, I think we have the previous 8 years pretty well summed up.
Kudos.
johnnycaffeine
Socialists = Collectivists
Collectivists = primative hunter-gatherers
America = First settled by Collectivists (aka American Indians)
Obama = Born in Hawaii, also first a Collectivist tribal community
Hawaiians = Great fisherman
Obama = Should be a good bass fishermen
Bass Fishermen = American!
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orourke
So are saying that anyone who is white, and disagrees with obama, is a racist?
jdx60009
orourke
If they are covering racist feelings with a ridiculous complaint about
Obama being an outsider and not really American, the answer is yes.
MrGEAH
In the liberal worldview, even if you agree with Obama, you're a racist if you're white.
jdx60009
MrGEAH
You don't know very much about the 'liberal' worldview.
clearthinker
I completely agree with Mr. Geah and you, jdx6009, are exactly what we are talking about. It's always okay for the left to dissent and criticize because that is "American", but if the right does it then they are rednecks, racists, haters, stupid, or some other playground maturity level rhetoric. Though I don't follow the "birthers" and believe in a more meaningful debate, I wonder why the Democratic Party hasn't presented the proof and be done with it. This whole thing would go away if they would do that. What happened, did O lose it?
sonshine
That's not right and you know it. That is wrong. Some white americans are racist. Yes, these birthers have convinced me that without any legitimate reason for their claims, they are racist but don't generalize like that. It really doesn't help.
gak001
@Clearthinker - Are you fucking retarded? What more proof do you need? He's already released his birth certificate and there are birth announcements from local papers.
Are you just being a troll or are you really just that fucking stupid?!
pr54321
Notice, gak001, that any time you mention the birth certificate that's been released and the newspaper announcement and all the official statements by the state of Hawaii, all you get is crickets. Then the same "WHERES THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?!1! WHY DONT THEY RELEASE IT!!1!?!" comment pops up somewhere else on the message board. These people don't care about birth certificates. They're only interested in making a lot of noise and provoking liberals and spreading misinformation.
Gkenyon
If any of you think Liberal09 is really a liberal and not a conservative in disguise, you need to think a little harder. This kind of simplistic thinking can only be the the product of a Republican mind.
jdx60009
Gkenyon
Liberal09 is just Banjo1 having fun trying to stir the pot. He's a super
troll. And he's so easy to recognize, no matter what he calls himself.
StellaRay
orourke,
I would amend Liberal09's post to say "Most of white GOP America appears to = racist," and with that change, most of America is going to nod their heads in agreement with me. Not to rub it in one more time, but that's just one more reason why the Republicans have lost the last two major elections.
The latest in a long sorrowful line of evidence to my point is the Republican doctor who sent out a mailer featuring Obama's face superimposed upon the photo of a witch doctor. See Huffington Post for the story.
It almost scares me that I can't pull up the outrage for this I used to, but you know, it's hard when it happens all the time. You end up just shaking your head sadly and praying that today's GOP suffers the consequences their behavior deserves. So far, so good. Their polling numbers are sub basement.
jonescrs
Isn't it funny how Liberals had "legitimate" concerns when attacking Bush, but Conservatives are just being irrational and mean spirited when they dissagree with Obama. I know that conservatives can be just as hypocritical but come on guys. All of you people are nuts!! You are all hypocrits and you're all mean spirited and one-sided when it comes to discussing any political agenda....and you wonder why so many people have become disenchanted w/politics. Liberal blame conservatives and conservatives blame liberals for all the divisiveness. Politicians are blamed and the media is blamed, for good reason, but you people are to blame also. Conservatives and liberals!!!
Bulldoglover100
We all knew the idiot nut jobs were out there and once in a while we see them on TV but with the internet we can all be entertained 24/7.
What they fail to realize...along with many many other common things the educated take for granted.... is that when they screech in tandum they become something common and looked apon as normal and sorta embarrassing.....and the entertainment value is gone...and the attention they seek is over....and they go back to being that aunt or uncle that no one wants to be around....kinda like Sarah Palin........
mwoody
except that most of the reason's liberals were anti bush are rooted in reality. bad wars, floods, ecomonomic meltdown, torture (now), etc.... (and we can go on)
bush gave real reason to be afraid...
Obama is not actually anything the right accuses him of.
ODS is yet more evidence that the right is living in la la land and deserve their current position (in the wilderness) within the political landscape.
godspeed obama!
lmsewell
I saw the tape of the Birther/lady in red last night on "Hardball" and felt ill. I had the same reaction when I saw that older lady at the McCain rally last year (the one McCain had to repeatedly say, "No, ma'am" to). This is truly frightening stuff. Just listen to Beck or Limbaugh or Levin, among many other right-wingnut radio hosts. They are stirring the pot like never before. They hated Clinton, sure, and the vitriol was rampant then. But this is taking on a life of its own.
tsalagi
The "alleged subversion of the Constitution" is obviously more than mere allegation.. This is not a racial issue, Obama's race has nothing to do with it, but that good old race card serves the liberals well, as usual!
sonshine
We wish is weren't about race but since he has provided a copy of his bc just as I would for any necessary purpose, why is the right wing not satisfied? What would make that lady think that even Obama were Kenyan by birth he would somehow be able to change our flag. I am usually last to blame race and it took me a while to see race in this one but there is no other valid reason for this. Is it a coincidence that the same wing of the republican party are racist as those who are birthers? That's not mere coincidence. What is interesting about the Bush haters was that so much of the stuff the sane people were alleging are now being proven with evidence that Cheney and not Bush was running the country. I never believed that until what we are seeing now. Not every issue has it's perfect corollary.
aprilnovemer811
John you're so quick to lable these people crazy, but what is so out of the ordinary about someone in America requesting a birth certificate as proof of who you are. Have you seen it? If not, one could surmise you might be crazy for believing someone who shows a pattern of lying. For example tonight, he is going to go on tv, and tell bold face lies about his health care. Here are some provisions from the bill, enjoy.
Don't worry though, Obama just wants access to your bank account.
Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benes u get
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!
Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits 4 you. U have no choice!
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided 2 ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise
Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access 2 individuals' finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access 2 ur banks accts 4 elect. funds transfer
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan 4 retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange 2 bring priv HC plans under Govt control.
PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs 4 priv. HC plans in the Exchange
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration ur Healthcare!
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic approp svcs. Example - Translation 4 illegal aliens
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps 2 sign up indiv. for Govt HC plan
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - U Health care WILL b rationed
-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will b automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monop
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what u can make.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into pub opt plan. NO CHOICE
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.
Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Emplyr w payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll
pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesnt prov. pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll
Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesnt have acceptable HC accrdng 2 Govt will be taxed 2.5% of inc
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from indiv. taxes. (Americans will pay)
Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access 2 ALL Americans finan/pers recs
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician svcs 4 Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesnt matter what specialty u have, you'll all be paid the same
PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries
PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs
PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals 4 what Govt deems preventable readmissions.
Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admiss that results in a readmiss-Govt will penalize u.
Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand
pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!!
Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing
Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority 2 disqual Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps in2 Govt plan
Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs ppl! WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!
Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. Can u say HC by phone?
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life
Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding u in death
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program 4 orders 4 end of life. The Govt has a say in how ur life ends
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will b used frequently as patients health deteriorates
PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may incl an ORDER 4 end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have at end of life
Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?
Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based org. Like ACORN?
PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt in2 ur marriage
Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing
mdkemmis
Rick Jr. you have to be the dumbest human in ALL of red neck America, I am not sure if it is the comment about hunters and lady fisherman = real Americans or the sheer fact that you can't even capitalize the word Americans. Why don't you and all of your KKK cronies just stop this ridiculous B#llsh@t, it really is just making you all look dumb! Really, I am begging you, please stop.
southernborn
I wouldn't matter what evidence they produced, it would all be considered a coverup.. I never knew you needed more than your birth certificate to prove you were an American Citizen. It is beyond crazy for them to insist this isn't his "real" birth certificate, that they want to see the "long form". I guess the person who started this mess, is an older person. My BC is on old black paper, I guess "long form", I've never lost it, so never needed a replacement. My kids BC is more like the title to my car.
My granddaughter was born in HA, while my son-in-law was stationed there, her BC looks just like BO's. But like I said it doesn't matter to the rabid-to-find-something that proves this man can't be our "real" president.
Oh well, they prove their insanity and stupidity by keeping it up. I guess about 20% of the country is just nuts.
By the way, a white woman 47 years ago, having a mixed race baby thought, wow, I'd better have a birth announcement put in the newspaper saying my kid was born here because someday he might run for POTUS and we will have to cover up the fact that he was really born elsewhere. CRAZY.
misha1000
"I never knew you needed more than your birth certificate to prove you were an American Citizen."
Black men ALWAYS have to show more identification. It's just a variation on 'where you from boy,' and 'where'd you get that car?'
Remember "Driving Miss Daisy"? "Where'd you get that car, boy?" Miss Daisy, who is Jewish, says "It's mine." The officer looks at her license and says "What kind of name is that?" Same story, different players.
clearthinker
"Miss Daisy" was 90 years old when the movie was made 20 years ago Misha. Can we not turn the page on that crap? Are you so blind that you can't see a different generation? A generation that elected its first black president. What more do you possibly want? Have you ever asked that question? Do you want things given to you? Do you not want to have to earn anything? Should there be special concessions made in life just for people of color? IN America, there is the NAACP, the Black Congressional Caucus, the Black Coaches Association, an entire month (February) dedicated just for black people, BLACK Entertainment Television, EBONY Magazine, the BLACK Scholarship Fund, and on and on and on. THere is NO such thing as WHITE anything. A lower-middle income white guy can't claim anything or make any excuse based on the color of his skin. He has to suck it up and go to work and can't complain about it so stop crying and quit playing the race card every time life gets difficult.
sonshine
For clearthinker below, tell all the black people who are educated, middle class and not at all purveyors of hate, that racism is over. All those things you point out are true but if you think hundreds of years of slavery and then legal segregation is fixed in the forty years since we have had civil rights laws, you are very naive. You may not see the racism happening but that doesn't mean it's not. I am highly educated professional working in a very progressive city and I see it more frequently than I ever thought would exist in this time in our government's history. Don't insult people with your Driving Miss Daisy example when you don't know what's really going on out there.
misha1000
" A lower-middle income white guy can't claim anything or make any excuse based on the color of his skin."
White men will NEVER know the sting of institutionalized racism. And here's affirmative action for the wealthy: my half-brother wanted to go to law school, but he had a C average. He found a school which was happy to accept his breathtaking endowment donation, and was admitted in due course. When I was in NYC, the optometrist I worked for wanted his son to be an OD also. He told me he made a $15K donation to a school's endowment (in 1972), and his son was in. The kid failed out at the end of the first semester.
People who bray against affirmative action never complain about AA for the wealthy. One time I was having breakfast with a friend, in the west side. He said to me "You're different and Jewish. You'll understand. Being black is like carrying a 50-lb sack of lead, all day long. When you get dressed in the morning, you put on that sack of lead, and drag it around until you go to bed." I believe Bill.
But thanks for playing.
mattison83
@clearthinker
I am a mixed woman, black father, white mother. I have light, brown skin with dark, wavy hair. During traffic stops I have been asked:
1. Is this your car? This question coming after the police offer has been shown my drivers license with my photo and address that matches my car registration.
2. What is your social security number?
3. Are you in the military?
I have been asked these questions while wearing a business suit while on business for IBM. I am an Ivy-league educated professional. Why do you suppose I was asked these questions?
And my traffic offense? Driving 5 miles over the speed limit in a 25mph zone.
Have you ever been asked these questions? Yes, progress has been made in this country, but racism is still an ugly part of our society. It festers under the surface for many people as a way to excuse their own failings.
Racism is fear. Racism is ignorance. Racism is real.
misha1000
@clearthinker
During a traffic stop, have you ever been asked, "What do you do for a living?" No? You're white.
I never have, but my black colleagues have.
Have you been asked, "Is this your home?" When you answered, "I own it," were you then asked "prove it."? No? You're white.
sonshine
This is the thing. While trying to say our president shouldn't be there because of some sort of shortcoming(s) they are basically saying that he was at the center of this huge conspiracy where there was knowledge at his birth of the urgent need to prepare him to be president of the u.s. It defies logic and those who are pretending its a valid question are the worst ones.
glogrrl
I do believe the abbreviation of Hawaii is HI.
dcbooknurse
I have a simple response to the Birthers: Prove to me that YOU are an American citizen. And we will use the same criteria you use for Obama. Show me a birth certificate. If it is not the original certificate, then it is a forgery. If you do show me an original birth certificate I will still demand that you prove to me that it is not a forgery. If you insist it is issued by the state and the state verifies that the certificate is real, I will demand you prove the state is not part of the conspiracy. If there are signatures on the birth certificate I will demand you produce the gentelmen who signed that certificate. If you can't produce these gentlemen that is proof that the certificate is a forgery. If you can somehow find these men and they swear that they did sign the certificate, obviously they are lying as part of the conspiracy. Besides, even if the certificate is valid can you prove that you are in fact the person named on that birth certificate? Maybe you obtained someone else's birth certificate and you are lying about who you are. It's all a conspiracy.
The truth is there is no way you can convince a Birther that Obama's birth certificate is real. If the Republican Party had any morals left they would denounce the Birthers for the lunitic fringe they are. The fact that they are embracing the Birthers is shamefull.
southernborn
well put dcbooknurse!
Maybe we should demand "proof" from the 10 republican senators who have signed on to that stupid bill.
sonshine
I agree with that one. Those guys should be ashamed of themselves.
RoadScholar
Bless you. A cool and logical mind.
What a relief.
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sonshine
Stop that. It's overboard. Just stop.
clearthinker
You sound like the lady in the video. Seriously, what's the difference? You type in caps and you call every white person a racist. How educated do you sound?
nouvelliste
We need to ignore these idiots. Most of them probably have no health insurance. They are the children left behind. Leave them behind. McCain was not born in the US. We know this is not about Obama's birth certificate. So let's not participate in the charade. If they wok up the courage to say they can't live with a black president, I would accept their position and maybe agree to listen. But this is ridiculous. We have real problems that these people are not equipped to discuss.
seeksense
Excellent post.
Thanks
barronmb
To be perfectly honest I am not committed either way. He may very well be a citizen. But one must admit that the questions surrounding the issue of Obama's long form birth certificate are not baseless and certainly have some merit.
While I will not go into detail with all of the questions... I will submit the most prevalent and provocative - at least in my mind. Why hasn't the long form certificate been produced? It is a fairly simple matter. Produce the certificate and the lawsuits (which he has spent thousands of dollars defending against) disappear. Why not produce it? Unless it either does not exist or there is something on it worth hiding - how else can one justify spending so much time and money to prevent it from being produced?
To be frank, I don't believe it is too much to ask to have a sitting president produce his birth certificate.... every federal position (including military) requires it.
That being said... I do not necessarily subscribe to the notion that he is not a citizen or that this is some mass cover-up. But I also do not see why he doesn't simply diffuse the situation by producing the document.
As for the "birther" conspiracy theory being based - at its roots - in racism... That's a stretch and a frankly chilling manner of addressing the issue. It is a typical liberal knee-jerk response. Kind of like Garofalo calling protesters at the Tea Parties racists for being against the stimulus and rampant government spending.
audaxviatrix
Maybe the Democratic party should "offer asylum" to GOP members who are rational, reasonable people, albeit conservative, to save them from the lunatic fringe. The growing visibility if not power of the right-wing fringe is a far bigger danger than the influence of a few reasonable conservatives. Maybe Democratic state and local committees should consider proactively offering their support to Republicans targeted by their parties' crazies.
I don't know what that would look like in practice - let the Republican run as the Democratic candidate? Throw support behind Republicans running as Republicans? I do know, though, that all people of good will should oppose this groundswell of right-wing hate.
osopolar
May god help America, we need u strong but fair...
joncarl
Is it just me or did that woman in Delaware sound an awful lot like that beat up old woman that claimed Obama was a Muslim at the McCain rally, during the election. These people just seem so angry and ignorant. I am saddened and disgusted. Educate yourselves.
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blinky
I'm reminded of the young Mccain campaign worker, Ashley Todd, who blamed a black Obama supporter of carving a backwards "B" into her forehead...She would be a right wing martyr today if she had been a smarter self cutter.
sonshine
It was her cheek. Remember even after she confessed you had some wingnuts saying they still believed her?
xlntcat
The woman at the McCain rally was a paid plant. The campaign staff ran after the press and begged them not to interview her. Now I don't know if that holds true for the Delaware crazy or not. But this is an old, white man's fight. Even though females are actually a majority, this has remained a patriarchal society and women have been second class citizens. We have made progress as have minorities but we still earn $.70 on the dollar. So why are women agreeing to fight the racist old white man's fight. Why are the racist old white men hiding behind a woman's skirts?
Tango121
Not knowing about this birth certificate argument. I took a few minutes to look up the facts. Hawaii issues two types of certificates, a short form and a long form. The short form is what is being shown on TV the Internet etc. The short form shows the name of the person, when, where and what time he was born. It also shows the name and race of the parents, but not the child. The long form show the same information but it also shows the race of the child. Is it possible that his parents given the race relations at the time (the early 1960s) when segregation was legal listed him as white and not black to help him in life. It would be hard to run as the first black president when you are listed on your birth certificate as white. Just a thought.
lehkb8
At that time, it was customary to list the race of the mother as the race of the child. They didn't choose to list him as white. His mother was white, therefore so was he.
RoadScholar
They do NOT "issue" long-form COLBs. Only the short forms are available, and the information they contain is certified by the State to be the same as on the original on file in a fire-proof, secure facility.
southernborn
I think you misunderstood something. HA has stated that this is the only BC they now issue.
I went to their website and there is only one type of BC you can order. There is no place to ask for another type:
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/pdf/birth.pdf
Even though the following clip is from the crazies and they go on to try to discredit it, here is what HA has to say about their BC's.
"According to Hawaii's Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo, the state only issues "certifications" of live births since 2001 when the health department went paperless. It is only available in electronic form, she said.
"At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she is quoted as telling the Star Bulletin. "The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests," Okubo said.
She did not explain how those needing a standard long-form birth certificate to qualify for programs such as those offered by the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands or to establish proof of eligibility to be president could be fulfilled. She said the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements."
So, they try to keep on.........Arkansas issues one BC, as do most states, it is crazy to say what a state should produce, when the state says it doesn't do that.
darkgable619
John, another excellent piece. Keep up the good work!
larry278
I wonder if the Birthers would have had a hissy fit if John McCain became POTUS. Some half wits said that he wasn't an American because he was born in Panama. His parents were natives of the USA. His father was an officer in the US Navy & stationed at a Naval Station in Panama. Sen McCain may have been born in a Naval Hospital in Panama.
Will the Birthers bring that up again if Sen McCain displeases them.
BTW, I wasn't born or hatched; I was issued in 1937 by Supply Service at what is now W-P AFB, OH.
Tango121
Larry
My brother joined the Air Force in 1960 and was stationed in Germany during the birth of his two children on the Air Force Base where he was stationed. He still has the letters from the State Department that states that his children are United States citizens with all the rights that go along with that, except that they cannot be President due to the fact that they were not born within the continental United States. I understand this rule was changed to include people born on military bases, but in 1960 it was still the old rule when my brothers kids were born and John McCain was born in Panama.
RomeoHotel
I generally have no small contempt for wild-eyed conspiracy theorists, but it is passing strange why this thing about the birth certificate has not been put to bed once and for all.
I hope an original or a copy of the original actually exists. Obama's upbringing was singularly unconventional as far as POTUSes go, and not producing a convincing document has only fueled speculation.
John Avlon does Obama no favors, though, by adding the birth certificate issue to the now-interminable list of questions that are "racist".
RoadScholar
The only people who think that document is unconvincing (the one which says AND I QUOTE, "This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding" at the bottom), is conspiracy nuts who allege a huge, absolutely evidence-free conspiracy.
There is no evidence his mother even TRAVELED to Kenya, much less gave birth there. There is no evidence the 2007 COLB is a forgery. There is no evidence Obama was ever NOT a citizen of the USA, nor that he has withheld any records. NO EVIDENCE.
It's this kind of thinking that's behind those who claim we never landed on the moon.
Sheer, unadulterated hogwash.
sonshine
For a poor lady she was doing a lot of globe-trotting, huh? Think people. You are being played like a violin with this birther thing.
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orourke
Wow, unbelievable, how is asking for proof of birthplace a 'racist' question?
Not for nothing, but the only racists I see are you folks here who keep bringing it up over, and over again!
I have read lots of birther blogs, and they never mention race, but every time I come to a liberal blog, there it is, the 'race' card!
So I ask you, if someone disagrees with obama, on anything topic, does that make them a racist? Because it sure sounds like it to me.
jdx60009
orourke
If they are covering racist feelings with a ridiculous complaint about
Obama being an outsider and not really American, the answer is yes.
republikant
YEAH JUST BECAUSE WE ARE CLAIMING BARACK ISN'T AMERICAN DOESN'T MAKE US RACIST. WHITE MALES ARE THE REAL OPPRESSED PEOPLE HERE, HOW MUCH AFFERMETIVE ACTUN ARE WE GETTING? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME SOMEONE BECAME PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE WAS WHITE? IF NINETY PERCEPT OF WHITE PEOPLE VOTED FOR SOMEONE YOU DEMONCRATS WOULD BE PLAYING THE RACE CARD. DESCRIMINATION ENDED A HUNDRED YEARS AGO GET A LIFE!
Glenn Beck or rush or someone showed a study the other night that the only reason obama got elected was because illegeal allens voted for him! can you believe that?
DeaconDrJones
You are being dense, orourke. People trying to appeal to the inner racist don't shout overt racist slogans in this day and age, they use code words the same way the religious right do because these outdated notions are not acceptable in common speech, but do still ring true with people born into them. I know, that's where I come from. Nobody in my family would say overtly racist comments, but when they come to my neighborhood and see all the blacks, they are very nervous. The birther movement is an outgrowth of this nervousness. AS stated above, a huge part of the modern conservative movement is just a tribal understanding that "we" are the "true America" and anything else is un-American, anti-christian, whatever you wanna call it. No amount of evidence will change this viewpoint when people are surrounded by it daily. I live in a progressive city and those ideas just don't hold up here. You get laughed out of a joint for even suggesting such tribal bs, but if I go back to my hometown and try speaking frankly about this stuff, they all get real nervous and defensive. You can even get you ass kicked by some down home, true blue American patriots who don't know the difference between Democrats and Republicans, Jews and Arabs, or Chinese and Japanese. It's ignorance, man. Own up.
semolinapilchard
Maybe it's the cold hard fact that no one demanded proof of birthplace until we had a black president? It's really not that hard to understand the correlation between racism and this movement unless you're in some hardcore denial.
crngndmhm
YEAH JUST BECAUSE WE ARE CLAIMING BARACK ISN'T AMERICAN @ republikant
DOESN'T MAKE US RACIST. WHITE MALES ARE THE REAL OPPRESSED PEOPLE HERE, HOW MUCH AFFERMETIVE ACTUN ARE WE GETTING? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME SOMEONE BECAME PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE WAS WHITE? IF NINETY PERCEPT OF WHITE PEOPLE VOTED FOR SOMEONE YOU DEMONCRATS WOULD BE PLAYING THE RACE CARD. DESCRIMINATION ENDED A HUNDRED YEARS AGO GET A LIFE!
The fact that the Birthers are made up of people who spew crap like this shows just how racist and delusional they are.
glogrrl
Presidents who were not required to produce original birth certificate
=43 white
Presidents who were reguired to produce original birth certificate= 1 black
sonshine
Look, its not asking the question that's racist. Notice how the allegations of racism has just recently bubbled up. When these birthers ask to see the bc, it is given to them, (Christ Matthews has been waving it on tv for two days) and they still don't believe it. Doesn't that make you wonder whether this is really about the bc? "Take my country back?" What's that all about? When they saw the bc they then changed to story to say it was forged. Then experts look at it and confirm its not forged and that the Hawaiian government will issue as many of them to him as he needs because they have these records that has all the people born in their state, they still say he's not a citizen. What is it that they really want? What is it that they are really trying to say? Makes me wonder.
roger37
Hey, orourke that's cheap victimhood and you know it. But nobody expects integrity from you guys anymore, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
crngndmhm
Why should the onus be put on the POTUS to prove he's an american citizen?
Shouldn't the birthers prove that he isn't? And by proof i don't mean mindless screeching i mean cold hard proof. Such as a Kenyan birth certificate if that's where they think he was born.
orourke
Let me guess, you're a lawyer, right? Well, the way you framed your question, it sounds like obama has committed a crime - has he?
Look, in the grown-up world, any other sitting President would have shown his LONG-FORM birth certificate, and been done with this nonsense. He wouldn't have spent $800,000 dollars trying to block access to any and all obama private and public records. Heck, I could get a short-form birth certificate that says I am obama!
sonshine
He already did his part and now they need to do theirs.
xlntcat
I think that the 'birther need to prove that they are Americans and that their cognitive deficits do not make them a danger to themselves and others.
pr54321
It hasn't been put to bed because there's a certain percentage of the population that will NEVER accept Barack Hussein Obama as their president, and this is an issue that they can grasp easily and repeat ad nauseam in shrill, hysterical tones.
I mean, they COULD spend their time debating the minutiae of policy, engaging in a respectful and sophisticated dialogue, sort of like Obama tries to do with everyone he encounters, or they could howl at the moon about foreign invaders and vast anti-American conspiracies.
Now pretend that you're a belligerent fringe character with a knee-jerk hatred of all "liberal media" information sources. Which of those two options are you going to embrace?
xlntcat
CNN sent an investigative reporter to Hawaii during the campaign and showed the original on the air as well as the announcement of his birth from the newspaper archives. All 50 states ratified his citizenship. There is nothing that will detur these freaks. They do not care about his birth certificate. He is black. He isn't one of them, therefore, he isn't a "real" American like Sarah Palin. Sane Americans are grateful.
oliverckerr
This is a conspiracy to get the constitution changed so wherever you are born you, too can grow up to be president.
That poor, ten year old Afghanistan kid getting her first chance to go to school - could be adopted - brought to America . . . and become president! That Italian dude with the hot and cold running blonde models . . . president. Ahhnold from Collie-fornia . . president.
I am partial to the Levinson statement on running for president - it might be at the end of his speech in New Hampshire on NHPTV in 1988. He said he was seeking the highest office on behalf of a Vietnamese girl, orphaned at birth, born on a coast guard cutter more than three mles off the Vietnamese coast, that when she grows up she can run for president, too, because she was "born in the USA."
for more of the same
michaelslevinson dot commie
orourke
Huh?!?
sonshine
Whoa. What's your point?
MurrayAbraham
Looks like Orly Taitz, Alan Keyes, Philip Berg and WorldNetDaily have found a lucrative business with this conspiracy theory, because they are finding more and more crazies to fund their "cause".
sonshine
And their followers don't even see that.
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DeaconDrJones
Troll. Conservative troll trying to make actual libs look like jackasses. Don't buy it.
jdx60009
This troll sounds a lot like Banjo1. He or she probably got banned after
Monday's comments.
sonshine
You are so wrong. We know you are a troll.
Thank you.
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