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Family of Hate
John Avlon
What kind of parents take kids on vacation to picket Walter Cronkite’s funeral, telling mourners yesterday he will burn in hell? John Avlon tags along with the sick clan behind the Westboro Church.
What are you doing for your family’s summer vacation? Shirley Phelps-Roper decided to take her two daughters to New York City from Topeka, Kansas. To protest outside Walter Cronkite’s funeral yesterday. They even had a fancy sign made up that said “Cronkite in Hell.”
“He’s in hell right now,” eagerly explains 23-year-old Megan, as mourners entered St. Bartholomew’s Church across Park Avenue. Her mom told me that Cronkite “had a platform to influence people in the right direction and he failed to do that. He chose to worship the flag and not God.” Also, he was a “fag-lover.” It says it right there on their press release: “We protest all this holy Cronkite worship. He was no hero to God. On his Cronkite Watch, America was surrendered to the fag-agenda. Ergo, Cronkite is now in Hell. And that’s the way it is. God hates Cronkite. “
The youngest daughter there, 16-year old Grace-Elizabeth, sports a navy blue “Priests Rape Boys” T-shirt and shuffled around on an Israeli flag.
The Phelps-Ropers are the founding family behind the Westboro Baptist Church. You might have heard of their practice of protesting at soldier’s funerals, where signs range from “God Hates Fags” to “God Hates America”—apparently because we don’t hate quite enough for Westboro’s tastes. Not surprisingly, their clique is designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center and other organizations. But they see themselves as something of a tough-love organization. They’re on a family trip to spread the word of a vengeful God. “Our only message is love God and he’ll bless you,” says Shirley. “Disobey God and he’ll destroy you.”
They begin their New York trip with a protest outside the Jewish Community Center on the Upper West Side, cordoned off in a little family-size protest pen, flanked by cops while they brandished signs saying “Jews stole the land,” “Israel is doomed” and “America is doomed.” The youngest daughter there, 16-year old Grace-Elizabeth, sports a navy blue “Priests Rape Boys” T-shirt and shuffled around on an Israeli flag. Despite that, she seems uncomfortable while her mother screams beside her. I ask Grace if she wanted to be there. “Oh yes, this is fun,” she gushes. “It’s the best thing we could be doing with our time.”
I asked her sister Megan—who just graduated from Washburn University this spring—what she thought of President Obama. Her eyes lit up. “Oh, he’s the Antichrist,” she says.
I ask for a little more explanation. “Well, he’s against Christ,” she says. Then mom swoops in, talking Deuteronomy and Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians before veering inevitably to abortion. “Reproductive freedom is a fluffy term for killing babies,” Shirley says. “Obama would support the murder of his grandchildren.”
Speaking of grandchildren, Megan and Grace are the grandkids of Fred Phelps—a Kansas attorney who started their church. They spoke of him in prideful tones as a pioneering civil-rights lawyer who just happened to spawn a family of lawyers who are now dedicated to trying to deny civil rights to gays and lesbians. Apparently, a family that hates together stays together. When you’re brought up to hate the world and the world hates you back, it’s a self-reinforcing circuit that only the family can understand. Maybe it’s like being brought up in a circus troupe, but your family business is preaching hate instead of, say, juggling. The kids seem to love the attention that comes with the public performance of protesting, and they have the serene certainty of the God-fearing and the brainwashed. I ask their mother if these sorts of family field trips could be considered a form of child abuse. She glowered—and then started yelling in another direction.
For New Yorkers, debate is both a sport and a pastime, and several fellow city dwellers come in to take their own shots at the Phelps-Ropers. Outside Cronkite’s funeral, one woman leans in and begins her objections by saying “I am a Christian…” but she is swiftly cut off. “No, you’re not,” says Shirley. Another questioner is dismissed as “a rebellious Jew”—apparently, his cufflinks gave his faith away—but he is offered the good news that precisely 144,000 Jews will be saved by the spirit before the rapture, which is coming with a vengeance any day.
John Talks Joe
Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
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Jacob Bernstein is a senior reporter at The Daily Beast. Previously, he was a features writer at WWD and W Magazine. He has also written for New York magazine, Paper, and The Huffington Post.
Geithner's Stock Plummeting
Jeff Madrick is a contributor to the New York Review of Books and a former economics columnist for the New York Times. He is editor of Challenge Magazine, visiting professor of humanities at Cooper Union, and senior fellow at the New School's Schwartz Center for Economic Policy Analysis. He is the author of Taking America, The End of Affluence (Random House) and The Case for Big Government.
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John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
The Next Wingnut Attack
John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
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John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
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They showed up in my hometown in Oklahoma but had to file for a permit so we knew they were coming in advance. We rounded up and even bigger crew, with signs, to shout them down and we WON! LOL They tucked tail and ran back to Kansas. You will also notice they did NOT bother the Michael Jackson funeral! Too afraid of people who would eat them for breakfast so they decided God would be O.K if they ignored the King of Pop!
Chickens who make millions off of people too afraid to do this dirty work theirself but your right, its a preformance for the ignorant.
Eh Permits! In Butte, MT the Phelps were met at the freeway offramp by a group of stern looking men with baseball bats and 2X4s who informed them they were not welcome. When they demanded to see the Sheriff, the group pointed the Phelps to the man with the badge who was directing traffic around the group. The promptly packed up their BS roadshow and left, never to return.
These folks came to Pittsburgh when Mr. Rogers died and protested outside of his church. Apparently they objected to his teaching children that they should love and accept themselves and others for who they are - even if they are different. Apparently he should have been telling them that sometimes being different means you will burn in hell.
There is "Christian Love" and there is "Christian Hate." More and more, those supporters who are vocal in the Republican party (leaders as well as supporters) are actively and vocally and pridefully praticing Christian Hate. The venom and vile and hate that pours out of their mouths, the anger they feel to most everyone who most often don't look like them, is pure hate. And it's scary how many there are and how comfortable they feel about sharing it.
"Every organization, every spiritual group, lodge, church or temple has had experience with some abnormal neurotic, unbalanced individual, suffering from hallucinations, who joins it movement and then attempts to represent that teaching to the outside world, creating misunderstanding and commotion. Though such an individual professes himself a staunch follower of the particular teaching he has elected to join, yet as a matter of fact he knows nothing about it and pursues his own hallucinations, sometimes to the point of craziness." Swami Yogananda
Just your typical, all-American Fox-News-Hate-Radio Listener! When will we put a stop to this? People are already being killed by these crazies.
I'm almost sure these are the same nuts who demostrated at Matthew Shepherd's funeral along with a Kansas minister - their father? Their naked hatred and ignorance are pretty disturbing. I don't think they have a large following so hopeffuly they will die off soon. I guess I'm always puzzeled by those who cloak themselves in Christianity and then spout such hate. They have no regard for law or for human decency. If they had Christian compassion they could be a little more sypathetic of family members. I remember watching Matthew's mom who was profoundly sad and shaken by her son's death and the abject cruelty by which he died. And then she had to be subjected to these baboons?
Nice piece of reporting.
Its too bad the whole damn lot of them can't just be strung up in a net, be declared insane, and hauled off to an institution.
Are shock treatments still legal?
Their performance art in the name of religious beliefs is a form of cultural shock treatment. We should never underestimate the stupidity of people, nor should we overestimate their sanity.
Only in America can you get a story like this.
A family invents their own religion focusing on everything they hate about modern society, they go on a road trip to the funeral of "the most respected man in America", they make a scene insulting him to get on national television, then drive a thousand miles back home to Kansas. The next day a blogger shares the story about the intersection of free-speech and lunacy.
As crazy and abhorrent as their beliefs are, this story somehow represents everything I love about this country. If they could look outside of their own bubble, these idiots would realize they love this country too. Of course if I was gay, lesbian, or a relaitve of Cronkite I'd probably be infuriated.
bojangles,
I was going to just pass this by without commenting but I loved your response!
When someone makes sense, I feel it my duty to recognize them.
Thanks!!!
I agree. The final paragraph is brilliant. Thanks, bojangles
boj4ngles- you forgot the families of the soldiers' funerals they 'picket'.
And yes, if you were gay (lesbian is gay) or a relative you would probably be infuriated. You should be regardless. The patriarch of this clan is one of the most hateful and deranged persons I have ever heard of. They are a true embarassment to those who think of themselves as Christians- they sure don't represent anything I love about this country.
I am infuriated but I do see the wisdom in boj4ngles' post. I am happy to see people exercise their right protest things, even when I don't agree and, yes, even think they are idiots. This family is embarrassing and validating of American ideals. Even uneducated idiots may have a voice. The sad part is that it seems only uneducated idiots are the ones getting their voices heard.
My problem with this family is their choice of venues. What is proved by standing near a funeral and adding to mourners' pain? Do they think someone will magically be transformed and come to their warped vision of the world as they "realize" just how much God hates fags? These people know the bible so well that they forgot a simple line: "That which you do to the least of my people you do unto me." So they basically are trashing their own savior's message.
Thanks to people like this we'll never have to ban religion. They are single handedly scaring away millions with their fervant ignorance. Keep up the good work. How does people's view of "god" get so skewed.
There is an excellent expose of Fred Phelps and his clan, written by a former Kansas reporter, on the internet. I'd post a link but not sure if that is allowed here. The expose took me an entire afternoon to read, but it is frightening. Phelps beat his wife and children brutally, to the point of having them lose consciousness. Two of his sons escaped and live in California, and work for peaceful Christian causes. The rest of them are doomed, living in a stockholm syndrome type existence.
Phelps, by the way, was disbarred (so calling him an attorney is not quite accurate) but he forced most of his kids to go to law school and when they are not harassing mourners at funerals, they are vexacious litigants who sue everyone they hate. They should ALL be disbarred.
Uncommonsense,
Links don't work on this site, but you can just post the url and others can cut and paste to get to the site. It's allowed :)
I look forward to reading the expose. Thanks.
You know, I cannot say that I am in surprised in the slightest that Phelps Sr. is physically abusive. It's the only way you could manage to keep a group like that from wandering off and saning up.
I find these folks beyond loathsome, embodying pretty much everything that is repugnant about American peasant Christianity, but unfortunately, the problem with freedom of speech is that you have to put up with a lot of crap. That being said, I sure wouldn't think it anything less than justice to hear that they protested at some funeral where the people took it personally and just killed them all. By their lights, they'd be martyrs before their bizarre little God, which would make them happy... and I sure do believe in making people happy.
Here is the link: http://www.addictedtohate.com/
I read the entire manuscript last night. A day later, and I am still deeply dismayed. In fact, more than outrage, I am filled with a deep and abiding sorrow. While I would rather not subject anyone else to these feelings, this is a tale of such overwhelming abuse and debauchery that it must be read to be believed.
The Phelps clan, the Westboro Church, and others of its ilk are so much more than just 'fringe elements' engaged in an exercise of their First amendment rights. Jon Michael Bell's coverage of Fred Phelps (and the horrors he inflicts upon all who come into his contact) reveals Phelps to be a grotesquely disturbed psychopath. Perusal of both his doctrine and his decades long reign of terror paints a portrait of one of the most deviously destructive monsters I have ever encountered.
Bell's coverage has permanently and profoundly altered my perception of this fundamentalist cult and its adherents more than I thought possible.This group and its devotees personify evil. They must be stopped.
the right wing of the Republican Party is just getting cwazier and cwazier!!
These people don't represent any political party.
They show up at Funerals of American soldiers
with signs saying soldiers burn in hell.
These people hate everyone, liberals, conservatives,
Jews, Christians, Muslims, you name it, and they hate.
They live by their own brain washed crazy principles.
You can be sure these freaks don't vote Republican. I doubt they vote.
I have seen them with signs that say Bush will burn in hell, and their biggest publicity up to this point was their celebration of 9-11 because America deserved it for loving fags.
I don't like religious GOP, but the connection you are making is stupider than when righties compare democratic politicians to Stalin.
Actually, according to these people God apparently hates the GOP, too.
This is my favorite video of some frat boys at a a university in chicago running these idiots off. If one of them were my son I would be proud of them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZfZiBRFM5w. Michael Moore has a a hillarious one also. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZfZiBRFM5w. Wait a few minutes before the Westboro church comes up. Wesrboro Baptist church goes to funerals and holds up signs that God hates the person. They got sued for doing this and the people won, they owe millions of dollars. Bikers would show up with large flags and stand close together so the families could not see the signs.
aspiecelia, both of your url's are the same: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZfZiBRFM5w. can you post the Michael Moore one? thanks.
the Michael Moore one should be in the related videos section. That's how I found it, anyway. :)
I live in Kansas City, Missouri, which is much closer to Topeka and those people's church than New York, which means we get bombarded by them a whole lot more. As a kid, I would go with members of my gay affirming church to protest them protesting things such as a high school performance of the Laramie Project, where they would sing songs about gay people going to church.
They also protested numerous times at the very church I went to with my family, all because we accepted what they did not. You mention in the article that they protest at soldiers' funerals, which got so bad around here that at one point the Hell's Angels would join the funeral processions to discourage the hate mongerers, until Congress finally passed a bill outlawing protesting at funerals, something I'm sure they never thought they'd have to do.
They also protested at Heath Ledger's funeral, for portraying a gay man, if you remember. All they really want is publicity, and every bit you give them just makes them happier. It's hard not to talk about, but it's the best thing you can do.
It's always been about the money with this group. Many from the conservative right send in their "Donations" and that is what keeps this group out there giving their preformances. Money is their God.
not surprizing.
And I forgot to mention, one of my high school teachers used to teach his youngest son, who was horrified by what his family was, and is, and the son always looked like he was not in good shape.
Yes, these are very sick people. Like this is news?
Yes, this IS news. Groups like this are definitely on the rise and, though they are splintered, they feed on each other's energy. There are some very scary, armed-to-the-teeth "militias" out there who are just waiting for a good excuse to open fire. Outfits like Westboro Church could very well provide the spark that sets them off.
If you thing I'm overreacting, go check out a few of these sites and see if you agree: StormFront, New Saxon, American Resistance Front, Hammerskins Nation, A Well Regulated Militia. Or, go to YouTube and search on Second American Revolution. If you have a particularly strong stomach, you can go on over to podblanc.com which is sort of like YouTube for hatemongers. Prosecutions of recent hate crimes have revealed that the perpetrators learned some of their more spectacular "skills" from podblanc podcasts.
Hate and fearmongering have always been with us to some extent. But now we are going through a transitional stage with Barack Obama in the white House and Judge Sotomayor about to be confirmed; hate crime laws are being passed; gun control is not loosening and all of that drives some of these folks absolutely wild. They are preparing for a revolution so that we can all go back to 1950. Thank God for John Avlon and others like him. He's not afraid to call it as he sees it.
Before I place this comment I want it understood that I have a deep personal belief in God, I've gone through many things in my life that I know that only by his grace did I survive them. However, I am very unhappy with how people do not seem to understand that the bible is only a "book" written by "people" - it is not God and shouldn't be worshipped and on top of that if you actually sit down and read the bible in a language version that you fully understand - you realize that it is a very flawed manuscript in many ways with passages that directly contradict each other. Cultist religions and members of mainstream religions as well tend to only focus on those passages that suit their beliefs. And every cultist religion I've had experience with seems to bypass that very special passage "Treat one another as you'd like to be treated". I worked with a woman who attended a cult like church and what I learned is that this woman liked this religion because it made her feel that she was "part of an elite group that was better than everyone else" and she often used her religion as a weapon against people under the guise of "being a true christian (I'm better than You)". She was truly one of the most evil, and seriously disturbed people I ever had the misfortune to work with. What is really, really sad is that this kind of "religion" is the kind of thing that causes people to reject a belief in God - they do not understand that religious nonsense is not what God is.
Very well said. Thank you for your comment
Well said. The issue with people like the ones in this article is that is not about God. It is about their own personal psychological issues. It is about "arrested development" which includes a lack of critical thinking skills, along with other lack of ego characteristics (ie. self-esteem, etc). People like this use "God", or race, or whatever they can to try to "fill" what they lack psychologically and emotionally.
Ghandi said it best
"I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They should try to be more like your Christ."
You forgot to capitalize the pronoun whose antecedent is your fluffy, kind sky-daddy ("his grace"). He's probably done with you now. You know how He hates being referred to in lower case. Enjoy hell, blasphemer!
I know you're kidding but that was kind of a schmucky response to a sincere post.
She didn't forget to capitalize anything. 'His grace' wasn't used as a pronoun. Grace was a noun, and in this instance, it belonged to God (proper noun). Now I'm an Anabaptist, not a Roman Catholic, but I believe "His Grace" refers to bishops and archbishops, not God.
Also, seeing as we're being sticky about it, it's generally considered incorrect to capitalize a letter in the middle of a word, PinkoLefty (yes, I appreciate the irony)..
That was witty. Sad because some people would think it true, but witty.
I agree with your comment. What stands out for me is the smug, really spectacular arrogance of claiming to be able to understand and interpret the will and judgment of God.
While I'm at it, what I find freakishly ironic are the Christian groups that proclaim the New Testament yet defy all of Christ's teachings about tolerance, peace, forgiveness and non-judgment in their words and deeds. The concept of exclusiveness is key, because by excluding and objectifying different types of people, violence against those people (in word or deed) can be justified in their minds. Every act of barbarity in human history can be traced to that form of self-induced insanity.
All of us were made, as we are, by the same Creator or by no creator at all. We won't know anything even resembling the truth of that until we die, and we may not know even then. Just playing the odds on that should tell us not to waste our brief lives on earth creating misery.
Very well written. Thank you.
Isabelle,
I'm so proud of you for saying that so articulately. Thank you.
Michael
I'll add my 'well said' to the others. It is sad that the simple phrase, "God is Love' is just not understood by these people. One wonders, what it is about that phrase that they cannot embrace. I think its because you need to feel love in order to give it and from their history its clear that they are putting out only what they have received - hate. I have nothing but compassion for their pain even as I abhor what they stand for.
Very well said. I consider myself a spiritual person, but not an organized religion person.
Seems to me that cults are just little religions and religions are just large cults.
According to the Bible, the folks that harrassed Jesus the most were the "religious" people. The only time Jesus showed violence was against the religious money changers. Sigh.
Yet another argument for population control. Problem solved if they were not allowed to procreate.
The creatures of Westboro Baptist Church inspired the euphemism, Copulating Christian(s) by those who don't wish to call that cruddy crew Jucking Fesus freaks.
These nutcases are exhibit one in favor of abortion. Anybody ever hear of culling the herd?
its hard to not be for selective abortions when you see what people are doing to their children.
have you seen the jump for jesus campaign, they are trying to mobalize a second childrens crusade against jihadists. its really no wonder why people hate america. if you dont agree with a persons belifs or values, im fine with that, you can be a racist, neonazi communist, antiestablishment....as long as you are capable of accepting that your view isnt the only correct one, and might even be wrong.
the problem with religious nuts is they are so astranged from reality that they actually believe, verbatim and literally, a book written thousands of years ago attempting to explain events that couldnt be explained, that has been translated and retranslated over and over again by various social, political, and religious leaders in order to control the population. and the best part is most of them dont even read it, they go to a church where some other nutcase tells them what it says. the beauty of a book like the bible is that if you read it with an open mind, it can actually be enlightening. but if you read it with a closed mind (like the vast majority of bible thumping nut jobs out there) it just breeds ignorance and hate, which is the opposite of what it is intended.
And a word for this family, didnt someone you worship say "he who is without sin throw the first stone" donesnt it say something in there about "it is not your place to judge your fellow man, that is the duty of the christ and the father" and a whole load of crap about loving thy neighbour, and forgivness of sins? what kind of bible are you reading that makes you act this way.
Wouldn't be nice if we could take all the "haters" of every race, religion, etc., round them up and put them on an island somewhere and let them work it out with one another, which then could relieve the rest of us of having to breath the same air as them.
Is anyone surprised that Atheism is sweeping the country? After reading this article, non belief is like exhaling: it seems effortless and comforting. It doesn't inspire or discourage. It just is and it allows you to continue your day without intruding on others.
It isn't surprising anymore to see proponents of faith acting as far from God-like as imaginable. It's not even news.
When I was a kid, bad news brain washing was wrapped in flower carrying Moonies selling them on street corners.
I think God would forgive anybody who met these people with water balloons filled with red paint or lighter fluid. But that's what I think of God. He's a forgiving God. I may be wrong but not as wrong as they are.
And why do the media keep giving this guy publicity?
The reason they give the media slime so much attention is the dollars they get from having us watch their excrement, and getting sponsors' money. Oh, you don't really believe them, do you?
I like the comparison of their lives and a circus upbringing, but not so much jugglers. More like the clowns that tumble out of a funny, little car. Except, of course, these folks have nothing funny about them.
There's a song I remember from my childhood, where I used to spend 3-4 days a week at Church - along with Church Camp and Vacation Bible School every year until I was 14. It went like this:
We are One in the Spirit
We are One in The Lord
We are One in the Spirit
We are One in The Lord
And we pray that our Unity may one day be restored
And they'll know we are Christians
By our Love, by our Love
And they'll know we are Christians by our Love
That's about all I've got to say about that...
They sound like Christians to me, just a bit more honest and vocal about their hatred than most, but just plain old Christians nonetheless.
I'd have to completely disagree with you. They are examples of the faux Christians of the modern days. You generalize Christians, true Christians by saying this. I think if you were to meet the gentle type of Christians I know and love and respect, you'd have a different view. At least the way I was raised, you never judged ANYONE, lest you be judged yourself. ALL of us fall short - especially these people. But the last thing we were told was "you will know you are my followers if you have Love for one another" - that's just what I have always lived by. Maybe there are just too few True Christians anymore.
By the way - I just learned that Mr. Peter R. Scholtes, who wrote the words to the song I quoted above, died on July 11, 2009 - he and his family have my prayers and sympathy.
John in KY
I'm not a Christian but I know that song and I've always liked it. I'm sorry to hear that the author just died. The song is as fine an epitaph as a person might want.
"You generalize Christians, true Christians by saying this. I think if you were to meet the gentle type of Christians I know and love and respect, you'd have a different view."
Where were they between 1933-1945? I was raised by survivors. Hitler and Goebbles were Roman Catholic, Eichmann Lutheran.
I once dated a Presbyterian. Her father said to me "I'd have a problem if Pamela came home with a black man." A Jew is OK, isn't than nice.
No anti-Semitism in China, Taiwan or India. Ever wonder why? Hint: what are the majority religions there?
I'm sorry about your personal experiences, misha1000, but your examples in the last sentence are kind of a fail and the point that you're trying to make remains woefully unclear. I can't speak for the religious pluralism inherent to India, because I know precious little about the subject, but seriously: don't even drag China into this mess unless you'd be willing to address Falun Gong, the institutionalized persecution of many different religions, and the perpetual undercurrent of racial/cultural/religious unrest with its minorities.
misha1000 -
Hitler and his cronies were not really Christians, regardless of whatever indoctrination they had as children, any more than Stalin was a good Georgian Orthodox Christian as an adult. A child can be raised with the intention of having them believe just about anything, but what they end up believing is up to each child. I wasn't raised as a Christian or anything else, and became one while in college.
Specific to Hitler, he chose to deny\ignore that Jesus was a Jew, and he found the Jewish roots of Christianity suspect. He was the kind of thinker that read to find ideas and notions in books that supported what he already believed to be true. I doubt he found much use for the Bible, as loving his neighbor as he loved himself would have been too much of a demand.
Hitler, Himmler, and the others made National Socialism their religion, which of course encouraged the murder of some of the other races and/or religions, as it included the same racial pseudo-science that was very popular in the period before, during, and after World War I.
This was a time when people believed that electricity and magnetism could cure disease, the dead could be spoken with, and that Jews were like bacteria that could infect the racial body. Among other things fascinating yet untrue.
A small number of authentic Christians died in the concentration camps, Dietrich Bonhoeffer being among the best known. The Nazis also murdered Jehovah's Witnesses, Roma, homosexuals, and an assortment of others who they either disliked or who would not go along with them. I suspect most Christians in Germany and elsewhere kept their heads down, which only condemns them as being afraid for themselves and their families.
I am not so sure about Taiwan but the majority religion in China is getting rich. That being said there are millions of Christians in China, somewhere between 10 million to 40 million or even higher. I am pretty many of them would like to get rich as well. Under Mao things got very rough for the Christians, since the Chairman was peddling his own religion.
Jews in China have never been more than 1% of the population and never a challenge for the authorities to deal with, unlike the adherents of other religions or members of other races under Chinese rule.
As for India, well, there are millions of Christians there, mostly but not always living in harmony with their Hindu and Muslim fellow citizens. At the moment there is a certain amount of persecution of Christians by Hindus in India, usually driven by the people and governments of the wackier Indian states which have some parallel here in the United States. It's just my opinion, but I think that in India the Muslim versus Hindu issue attracts more energy than what the relative handful of Jews or even Christians merit in the eyes of the people in power.
As for your experience with the Presbyterian father, did you sample a population larger than one, since they seem to number in the millions? You might have come across an alpha-hotel. Every demographic groups and zip code seems to have at least one.
Thank you for sharing that.
@jaguarxjs
Thank you for saying that. My feelings exactly.
@misha1000
Sorry for your bad experiences...
Here are some of mine.
guess you never experienced, as a Christian, being told your relationship with your Jewish boyfriend could not become public until After his grandmother died...
no Jewish parent ever said
I want my son/daughter to Only marry someone Jewish...Oh no...that has NEVER happened..or someone of a European background only (read white)...NEVER...
All Jewish people have interethnic (there's only one human race so I refuse to use the term interracial which is meaningless) , interfaith marriages..and are full of God's love and tolerance and forgiveness...Amen...
Only Christians are bigots..and committ murder of innocents...
guess you missed those Isreali soldiers complaining they were
told to shoot Palestinian civilians...women and children....and not allow them warning to get to safety...
ever read all the smiting in the Tenakh...canonites, moabites...take a gander at who was doing all that...Hint NOT Christian...
and Saul (who was Jewish)l...before he became Paul (still Jewish, by the way) was assassinating Christians for Rome...pre-Holy Roman Empire
to quote a very well know and respected Jewish Teacher
"he who is without sin cast the first stone"
or as my first grade teacher illuminated- "when you point your finger at someone else...never forget that three of your fingers are pointing right back at you"
a little self-examination goes a long way...
Guess you never heard that the Nazi regime was Actually practicing ancient Germanic pagan war rituals...including the decapitation in ceremonies of young German men...and depended on astrologers for fortune telling (actually used against Hitler by the allies)
FYI NOT Christian practices....
Yep! You gotta love them " Compassionate Conservatives" !
The haters are everywhere.
What a hateful comment. I am a Christian and the Westboro Baptist congregation hates me. They have shown up in my town, which is frequently referred to as the buckle in the Bible Belt, and found no support here. They do not represent Christianity in any form. They completely deny the new covenant Christ made with his followers and rely entirely on an Old Testament view of a vengeful God. They are not plain, old anything- not plain old nuts, not plain old evil. They have taken evil to a different level, one entirely protected by several sections of the Bill of Rights. They are the dark side to our liberties.
I agree with your post and I lived in Topeka for years with these nutz. They do not resemble the Christianity that my Lord, Jesus Christ, professed. They are extremely fringe and that is why the media gives them any attention at all...gets eyeballs to watch the 24 hour news and raise their ad rates. Want to beat these guys and the Corporate blood suckers in media...turn them off..there are so many things to do in this rather than listen to anyone else's propaganda and that is all the so-called news people are putting out there, with no regard to what it is doing to our cultue and our relationships within this country...it's all hate and dispare...don't need it!
Who's paying attention to them except the people who think like them? Quit putting them in the paper, they don't get any attention. They don't get any attention, they disappear. Poof.
Thank you.
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