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The GOP's Misplaced Rage
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Leading conservative economist Bruce Bartlett writes that the Obama-hating town-hall mobs have it wrong—the person they should be angry with left the White House seven months ago.
Where is the evidence that everything would be better if Republicans were in charge? Does anyone believe the economy would be growing faster or that unemployment would be lower today if John McCain had won the election? I know of no economist who holds that view. The economy is like an ocean liner that turns only very slowly. The gross domestic product and the level of employment would be pretty much the same today under any conceivable set of policies enacted since Barack Obama’s inauguration.
Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect.
In January, the Congressional Budget Office projected a deficit this year of $1.2 trillion before Obama took office, with no estimate for actions he might take. To a large extent, the CBO’s estimate simply represented the $482 billion deficit projected by the Bush administration in last summer’s budget review, plus the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, which George W. Bush rammed through Congress in September over strenuous conservative objections. Thus the vast bulk of this year’s currently estimated $1.8 trillion deficit was determined by Bush’s policies, not Obama’s.
I think conservative anger is misplaced. To a large extent, Obama is only cleaning up messes created by Bush. This is not to say Obama hasn’t made mistakes himself, but even they can be blamed on Bush insofar as Bush’s incompetence led to the election of a Democrat. If he had done half as good a job as most Republicans have talked themselves into believing he did, McCain would have won easily.
Conservative protesters should remember that the recession, which led to so many of the policies they oppose, is almost entirely the result of Bush’s policies. According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the recession began in December 2007—long before Obama was even nominated. And the previous recession ended in November 2001, so the current recession cannot be blamed on cyclical forces that Bush inherited.
Indeed, Bush’s responsibility for the recession is implicit in every conservative analysis of its origins. The most thorough has been done by John Taylor, a respected economist from Stanford University who served during most of the Bush administration as the No. 3 official at the Treasury Department. In his book, Getting Off Track, he puts most of the blame on the Federal Reserve for holding interest rates down too low for too long.
While the Fed does bear much responsibility for sowing the seeds of recession, it’s commonly treated as an institution independent of politics and even the government itself. But the Federal Reserve Board consists of governors appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate.
Because the president appoints the board, he has primary influence over its policies. This is especially the case for chairmen of the Fed appointed by Republicans because they often have ties to Republican administrations. Chairman Ben Bernanke was originally appointed as a member of the Fed in 2002, serving until 2005, when he became chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers in the White House, a position that made him Bush’s chief economic adviser.
As early as 2002, a majority of the seven-member Federal Reserve Board was Bush appointees, and by 2006 every member was a Bush appointee. While many critical decisions about monetary policy are made by the Federal Open Market Committee, the board’s position always prevails.
The Treasury secretary also has had breakfast with the Fed chairman on a weekly basis for decades. Consequently, most economists generally believe that every administration ultimately gets the Fed policy it wants. Therefore, one must conclude that if there were errors in Fed policy that caused the current downturn, it must be because the Fed was doing what the Bush administration wanted it to do.
To the extent that there were mistakes in housing policy that contributed to the recession, those were necessarily committed by Bush political appointees at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and other agencies. To the extent that banks and other financial institutions made mistakes or engaged in fraudulent activity, it was either overlooked or sanctioned by Bush appointees at the Securities & Exchange Commission, the Comptroller of the Currency, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, and elsewhere.
But in a larger sense, the extremely poor economic performance of the Bush years really set the stage for the current recession. This is apparent when we compare Bush’s two terms to Bill Clinton’s eight years. Since both took office close to a business cycle trough and left office close to a cyclical peak, this is a reasonable comparison.
Throughout the Bush years, many conservative economists, including CNBC’s Larry Kudlow, extravagantly extolled Bush’s economic policies. As late as December 21, 2007, after the recession already began, he wrote in National Review: “the Goldilocks economy is outperforming all expectations.” In a column on May 2, 2008, almost six months into the recession, Kudlow praised Bush for having prevented a recession.
But the truth was always that the economy performed very, very badly under Bush, and the best efforts of his cheerleaders cannot change that fact because the data don’t lie. Consider these comparisons between Bush and Clinton:
• Between the fourth quarter of 1992 and the fourth quarter of 2000, real GDP grew 34.7 percent. Between the fourth quarter of 2000 and the fourth quarter of 2008, it grew 15.9 percent, less than half as much.
• Between the fourth quarter of 1992 and the fourth quarter of 2000, real gross private domestic investment almost doubled. By the fourth quarter of 2008, real investment was 6.5 percent lower than it was when Bush was elected.
• Between December 1992 and December 2000, payroll employment increased by more than 23 million jobs, an increase of 21.1 percent. Between December 2000 and December 2008, it rose by a little more than 2.5 million, an increase of 1.9 percent. In short, about 10 percent as many jobs were created on Bush’s watch as were created on Clinton’s.
• During the Bush years, conservative economists often dismissed the dismal performance of the economy by pointing to a rising stock market. But the stock market was lackluster during the Bush years, especially compared to the previous eight. Between December 1992 and December 2000, the S&P 500 Index more than doubled. Between December 2000 and December 2008, it fell 34 percent. People would have been better off putting all their investments into cash under a mattress the day Bush took office.
• Finally, conservatives have an absurdly unjustified view that Republicans have a better record on federal finances. It is well-known that Clinton left office with a budget surplus and Bush left with the largest deficit in history. Less well-known is Clinton’s cutting of spending on his watch, reducing federal outlays from 22.1 percent of GDP to 18.4 percent of GDP. Bush, by contrast, increased spending to 20.9 percent of GDP. Clinton abolished a federal entitlement program, Welfare, for the first time in American history, while Bush established a new one for prescription drugs.
Conservatives delude themselves that the Bush tax cuts worked and that the best medicine for America’s economic woes is more tax cuts; at a minimum, any tax increase would be economic poison. They forget that Ronald Reagan worked hard to pass one of the largest tax increases in American history in September 1982, the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act, even though the nation was still in a recession that didn’t end until November of that year. Indeed, one could easily argue that the enactment of that legislation was a critical prerequisite to recovery because it led to a decline in interest rates. The same could be said of Clinton’s 1993 tax increase, which many conservatives predicted would cause a recession but led to one of the biggest economic booms in history.
According to the CBO, federal taxes will amount to just 15.5 percent of GDP this year. That’s 2.2 percent of GDP less than last year, 3.3 percent less than in 2007, and 1.8 percent less than the lowest percentage recorded during the Reagan years. If conservatives really believe their own rhetoric, they should be congratulating Obama for being one of the greatest tax cutters in history.
Conservatives will respond that some tax cuts are good while others are not. Determining which is which is based on something called supply-side economics. Because I was among those who developed it, I think I can speak authoritatively on the subject. According to the supply-side view, temporary tax cuts and tax credits are economically valueless. Only permanent cuts in marginal tax rates will significantly raise growth.
On this basis, we see that Bush’s tax cuts were pretty much the opposite of what supply-side economics would recommend. The vast bulk of his tax cuts involved tax rebates—which failed in 2001 and again in 2008, because the vast bulk of the money was saved—or tax credits that had no incentive effects. While marginal rates were cut slightly—the top rate fell from 39.6 percent to 35 percent—it was phased in slowly and never made permanent. Neither were Bush’s cuts in capital gains and dividend taxes.
I could go on to discuss other Bush mistakes that had negative economic consequences, such as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which imposed a massive regulatory burden on corporations without doing anything to prevent corporate misconduct, and starting unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which will burden the economy for decades to come in the form of veterans’ benefits.
But there is yet another dimension to Bush’s failures—the things he didn’t do. In this category I would put a health-care overhaul. Budget experts have known for years that Medicare was on an unsustainable financial path. It is impossible to pay all the benefits that have been promised because spending has been rising faster than GDP.
In 2003, the Bush administration repeatedly lied about the cost of the drug benefit to get it passed, and Bush himself heavily pressured reluctant conservatives to vote for the program.
Because reforming Medicare is an important part of getting health costs under control generally, Bush could have used the opportunity to develop a comprehensive health-reform plan. By not doing so, he left his party with nothing to offer as an alternative to the Obama plan. Instead, Republicans have opposed Obama's initiative while proposing nothing themselves.
In my opinion, conservative activists, who seem to believe that the louder they shout the more correct their beliefs must be, are less angry about Obama’s policies than they are about having lost the White House in 2008. They are primarily Republican Party hacks trying to overturn the election results, not representatives of a true grassroots revolt against liberal policies. If that were the case they would have been out demonstrating against the Medicare drug benefit, the Sarbanes-Oxley bill, and all the pork-barrel spending that Bush refused to veto.
Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect. They can start building some by admitting to themselves that Bush caused many of the problems they are protesting.
Bruce Bartlett was one of the original supply-siders, helping draft the Kemp-Roth tax bill in the 1970s. In the 1980s and 1990s, he was a leading Republican economist. He now considers himself to be a political independent. He is the author of Reaganomics: Supply-Side Economics in Action and Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy . His latest book, The New American Economy: The Failure of Reaganomics and a New Way Forward, will be published by Palgrave Macmillan in October.









Excellent piece. I shall keep a copy to refer to whenever some sore loser starts whinging about Obama's high cost of fixing a derailed economy.
I am about to bookmark this also. I belong to a few forums peppered with "confused" people.
This is the most excellent article have ever seen..
honestly this Guy deserve a congratulation for being honest and explaining the situation clearly.I must keep a copy of this as reference whenever i will have a talk with friends.
tasppa
you are absolutely correct, tasppa. I've long held that there are honest conservatives with sound logical arguments. Even when I disagree I enjoy a well built, reasonable argument. There were many conservative economists who were warning unsustainable lending and 'growth'. There are also people who don't want to face facts so they change the subject (point at Franks, not that Barney was any kind of saint though this) or otherwise misdirecting the focus from the problem.
Nice try you closed minded, leftist hack. The people are not upset about the cost of fixing a derailed economy in so much as when they oppose the Democratic plan, which no Democrat can even articulate clearly, they are peronally attacked. The people's anger emanates from when they do oppose, like Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton recommended during the Bush administration, they are called Nazis, fake protesters, brown shirts, stupid, plants and a myriad of other names by the leaders of the Democratic party. Real intelligent. What happened to Obama's "bringing both parties together" idea? I guess when the Democratic's utopian plan of supplanting personal responsibility with getting taken care of by big daddy Government for the purpose of gaining votes, principles along with the Constitution get thrown out the window. Thank God the masses of people are now seeing how the Democrats handle being in power. Thank God we have elections coming up next year!
mikealtan - Hard to bring us together since Bush TRASHED our economy, closed-minded rightest hack. Masses of people are looking at idiots like you and seeing the light every day. You are the ones who lost credibility in the election and will continue to lose Republicans in Congress and health reform will go forward, you kicking and screaming all the way, because you have no plan, as usual. Lovin' watching you naysayers squirm. Lovin' it.
What an ugly rant. When you let go such venom that it reflects on you, not on the target of your anger.
"The people's anger" is in itself fallacious because there is no homogeneous uprising, no matter what the Tea Party crowd would have us believe. There IS a mixture of self-interest and appreciable funding from the insurance industry lobbyists, ordinary people to whom lies are propagated, true conservatives AND people on the other side of the equation who are angry that they are bankrupt from medical bills or can't get coverage from a pre-existing condition or can't afford it. That's why you don't get to speak for everyone, just for yourself. And what's coming out of your mouth right now is ugly, not reasoned so go work on that for a while.
Yeah, It's like my ol' Granpappy use to say:
" you can lead a wingnut to the facts but you can't make 'em think!"
" you can lead a wingnut to the facts but you can't make 'em think!"
I love it,,,
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Amen. This will be bookmarked for future reference. I have said for a long time that if you don't like Obama, blame Bush. Bartlett makes a lot of sense on what is going on right now. I think that health care reform would have been a lot easier under Bush than it's going to be under Obama, just like welfare reform was easier under Clinton and the war effort is easier under Obama than Bush. Bruce, please send a copy of this to Larry Kudlow, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity
Mauiboy you are right on target.
Nice try at trying to re-write history. How about going back a little bit and looking at your friend Barney Frank and the Democrats who bullied a Federal employee who testified that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in trouble back many years ago.... Barney said things were great. It was he and the Democrats (Clinton crowd) who pushed for loosening up the lending requirements so their constituents, who could not afford mortgages, could now get them. And then began the slide down the slippery slope.... lending money to people who could not afford to repay it.
So, how about telling the truth.... not just the liberal truth.
Nice try in trying to make Fannie and Freddie the cause of Bush's Disaster. Nothing like clinging on to ONE thing that you can use to point the finger the other way.Lets be real. Out of so many CBO reports between 2001 and 2008, I dont recall anything about Fannie/Fredie being the cause of this mess we're in. And that's because in 2007 Frank became the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee when the Democratic Party won a majority in the House.
I guess you're high IQ says that before 2007 this country was doing peachy before fannie/freddie.
During twelve years of Republican rule no reform was adopted regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2007, a few months after Frank became the Chairman, the House passed a strong reform bill and fiinally got it passed and onto President Bush's desk in July 2008. Twelve years of Republican rule produced no reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Frank did not "pushed for loosening up the lending requirements" to control subprime lending or to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac because in the first case they were never willing to do so, and in the second case, FrankI worked together with Republican Chairman Mike Oxley on the only bill that the Republicans considered during that period to restrict Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the bill was defeated because, in the words of Mike Oxley, the Bush administration gave his efforts 'the one-finger salute.'
NOW YOU WANNA ARGUE THAT WITH ME, TODAY IS MY DAY OFF YOU'RE IN LUCK. I GOT ALL DAY FOR YOUR CRAP.
Innovations, you have my Attention. Thank you for your concise input...
innovations,
how uncommon- a democrat with a day off on a thursday or my guess would be you have the day off everyday. Except, of course, when you get up off your couch and walk to the mail box to pick up your government check that working people (those who don't have thursdays off) have provided for you through taxation. Thanks for making the conservative point for us! People like you are the problem.
Owdawgo,
Your post is ridiculous. BTW, what are you doing here on a Thursday blogging away. Catching a little down time on the company computer, or what? Or are you retired, living on your government paid social security and medicare?
Odawgo and Stella Ray, if it's my day off today, that should tell your republican-fathered brain that I work.But enough about me, answer the goddamn reply with some logic and not your concern about my day off. TYPICAL TYPICAL PUKE CRAP.
LOL Notice how the bottom dwellers can only respond to intelligent debate with insults? Causes one to wonder if their parents were breeding for ignorant? or of the genetics behind them are just so swamp filled they never stood a chance.....
I'm a Republican and I KNOW Bush did us in.
Lol. Congratulations, you all took the bait - hook, line and sinker. I love it when you all reveal your true colors. Oh, almost forgot, hope you've enjoyed your day off because, if I'm not mistaken, your weekly check should be arriving tomorrow. Try not to break a sweat on your way to your mailbox. Work, work, work........
"Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect."
If CONSERVATIVE protesters are "mobs," what does that make ACORN ?
Aren't Liberals the ones who created the tradition of mob mentality,
COMMUNITY ORGANIZED ?
Odawgo-
Pathetic response.
You can't even cover your
Own butt competently.
But I was laughing-
So it was worth the read.
You've told all of us that you
Have no argument.
I still didnt hear a proper response...Well not everybody has a standard 9-5. Im tired of STUPID republicans. Thats why they dont want education in any of these budgets cuz they depend on the STUPID..No response what so ever and still have the nerve....
odawgo. Thanks for the great example. You have confirmed everything this author says.
You have fallen into a trap of your own making. LOL
Innovations your reply to timmyboy(we call him tiny BOY) was great and accurate. Facts seem to be krytonite to these uninformed, mis-educated, ignorant tinny boys ... PLS keep up the good fight against supidity!
Did someone say ACORN?!?!? o my god!!! grab the kids and lock the doors!!!!!!
Hey Odawgo, my republican friend is taking today off as well. He is a Sr. VP at a tech firm. Is he a problem as well? Idiot!
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Nice smack down ... I like it
@Innovations, you hit the nail on the head...thanks for standing up, being heard and supporting your debate with facts, not fairy tales...
It's Friday and you're back at work. But I just found this article and your response. I'll be back on the Beast now that I'm registered. Thank you for the spirited comment. Made my day. And thanks to the conservative economist Bartlett for the facts. So rare. So needed to help stop the hysteria raging in our nation.
Talk about revising history. When Bush took over the Dot Com bubble burst and Fannie and Freddie almost became irrelevant. It was only the loosening of requirements and dropping interest rates through the floor (both under Bush's control in 2003/2004) that caused the incredible investment in Real Estate you refer to. Bush and the Republicans controlled all of the government not Clinton nor Barney Frank. Try again later, but get your facts straight.
Estcruzer, I am having so much fun, reading today... Your comments have added to my enjoyment. Thanks...
Hey estcruzer, nice to know some people still have a brain. The balls of some people to even try and blame all of this on fannie/barney. It took 3 pages to list all of Bush's wonderful contributions and he left out a few more pages that i can think of, and instead of these morons shutting the f**k up, they try and come back with fannie lmao. GET A F**KING LIFE!!
According to the July 12, 2009 issue of the Los Angeles Times, a joint study by The University of Chicago and Northwestern University found that "26% of home mortgage defaults are 'strategic' - that is, calculated economic decisions to bail out of loans by owners who actually have the money to make the payments but can't handle the negative equity they're carrying caused by local property value declines."
Wanna keep up the poor bashing or wanna face the truth, Timmyboy? Maybe you should try leaving history, as you call it, to those who "wrote" it in the first place.
Janet, I laud your documentation. Anybody can spew opinions. It's refreshing to see a position offered with support.
You want liberal truth you found me just in time. Here's some lib truth: According to the figures in today's report, the $5.6 trillion ten-year projected surplus inherited by the Bush Administration has become a $3.3 trillion deficit - an $8.9 trillion deterioration. According to these figures, the
nation's debt is projected to rise every year without limit, growing faster than its income CBO--September 24, 2004,
THE PEOPLE WHO RE-ELECTED BUSH ARE TO BLAME. BECAUSE THEY VOTED HIM IN.
Here here. Whoever voted for Bush should be thrown in Gitmo. They screwed as over BIG TIME!
Yes you are correct Especially since the first time shame on Bush but the second time shame on the people who voted for Bush. Your figures and historical information is correct but as someone pointed out Denial isn't a river in Egypt ...it is the foundation of the Republican party
Lotto it's always a river in egypt when i piss and think about these puke morons--the nile river.
I find it amazing that a certain sort of Big Shot Wanna-Be delusional is always on about Barney Frank instead of looking at reality. And timmyboy you're the typical version spouting the typical nonsense in perfectly memorized quotes.
Apparently, gay bashing and thinly veiled racism are much easier than just dealing with the truth and focusing on now and how to dig out of this mess. It's useless, and utterly repugnant to boot. A lot of the Fox Limbaugh generated hysteria is more about being a small minded bigot than any reality about The currant President or the incompetent last one.
If you don't like the country growing and changing for the more equitable, go to some nasty little dictatorship of the sort the Bush years were becoming. You'll love it! Since the Republican big shots don't actually give a snot about you any way you won't be missed. They'll just vote you anyway, long after you've put on the cement galoshes.
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! Frank had total absolute control over Treasury, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the Fed, Greenspan, the FDIC. Barney's evil hating America plans overwhelmed all of them and more, forcing them against their will to become his mind controlled economic policy and sex slaves. Besides electing the greatest military and economic mind, which we did in George W Bush, what can America do to protect herself from those so evil?
MAYBE the other Dems were wrong...........BUT THIS IS NOT OBAMA's fault.
Actually OBAMA's action SAVED AMERICAN CAPITALISM for now.......
SO, it is totally unfair to Blame OBAMA.
HE is taking the HEAT FOR the DEFICIT............because he saved Capitalism???
honestly how DISHONEST CAN The CRITICS be??
CRITICISM for the sake of CRITICISM is NOT A SOLUTION !!
THIS post is very timely and correct.
odawgo, yep I'm unemployed and receiving a government check thanks to moronic republican policies which deep sixed our economy and made it impossible to find work. But hey, tomorrow is Friday... payday. Thanks buddy!
HA HA
sophia5, yep protesting republicans are mobs, protesting liberals are protesters. Everyone has a right to protest peacefully. When they start making death threats and showing up with guns, that is where the line is drawn. Frankly, the conservative mobs are behaving a lot like... dare I say it... terrorists. Quick, somebody call Homeland Security!
LOL, you might want to Google "George Bush's American Dream Home Ownership Act"
Here's a highlight:
Housing: Help low-income purchasers, and housing developers
Bush's main proposals on housing:
%u2022Creation of an "American Dream Downpayment Fund" to allow low-income families to use HUD rental vouchers to make a down payment on a home. Bush says this could help as many as 650,000 families become homeowners.
%u2022A tax break aimed at real estate investors that would provide them with tax credits of up to 50% of costs, totaling $1.7 billion over five years. This tax credit would provide incentives for private investors to redevelop single-family housing or build new homes for low- and moderate-income Americans. Bush said he expects this plan would build or rehabilitate 100,000 homes in five years.
%u2022Individual development accounts giving tax credits and other financial incentives for low-income families to save money for a home purchase, for education costs, or to start a business.
He promised to give out $450 billion dollars in low income loans to poor people to buy homes with subprime loans, the subprime's that went bad were worth $500 billion, so do the math timmyboy. You might also want to consider that Adjustable Rate Mortgages have terms that are 1,3 or 5 years, and they started going bad in 2007, which meant they were mostly written in 2002 and beyond when republicans controlled the presidency, the congress and the judiciary branches of government. Another fact to consider is that complicated financial instruments that were made possible by Phil Gramm courtesy of the Gramm, Leach, Bliley Act were the actual cause of the financial crisis, the country could easily have recovered from a $450 billion loss. We recovered from the collapse of the savings and loans after Reagan deregulated them, and we could have recovered from Bush's very generous, very Christian act of giving homes to the poor, if the subprime mortgages hadn't been sliced, diced and packaged around the world, and insured by derivatives. Nice try rewriting history, Timmyboy, next time you might want to blame Jimmy Carter and the Community Reinvestment Act of 1978, even though Bernanke has said "the CRA did not cause the current housing crisis", that never stops republicans from blaming poor old Jimmy Carter.
You've hit it on the head, Vic. Some conveniently forget, or rewrite W's dream home ownership act. Who said he was only interested in helping his big money banker friends? Of course he was just looking out for the poor little guy trying to achieve the American dream. A closet populist. lol
Yes, the Dems have a share of the blame, but they were not the majority who pushed through de-regulation of Wall Street and the banks. They were not the party that thought that lowering taxes on corporations and the rich was the only remedy our economy needed. They were not the administration that started two wars and kept the costs of the wars "off the books" by funding it from an emergency fund (AKA loans from China). And they were not the party that eroded our civil liberties so that the most secretive administration in history could do what they want here and abroad.
So, until Repugs step up and start 'owning' that it was your leadership, your Congressional Reps, and your lobbyists and money hacks who got us into a worldwide recession from which we will be digging for years to come, don't look for much bi-partisan 'mea culpas' from the Dems.
Bruce that is an excellent breakdown of all the events that led to Obama's inheritance. But even with all that, there are going to be space cadets that are going to out-right tell you that Bush led a wonderful economy and that the 2006 democrat congress screwed it up, even though they had no say so in the matter because Bush vetoed everything they wanted to pass. Welcome to my world.
Better read up on the history of Bush's veto pen - he found it in the later years of his presidency. Remember No Child Left Behind or the Medicare prescription bill? The spending created a part of the problem, but timmyboy is right. To conveniently exclude the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debacle, which caused the housing crisis, had more to do with this recession. And there were warnings by Bush and Ron Paul, but the people in charge of oversight in Congress assured everyone that everything was just fine.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html
The Real Deal
So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:
The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.
The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.
GEORGE W. BUSH'S VETOES.
George W. Bush
1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed).
2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of... H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President's approval.
3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.
4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP"). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed).
5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President's veto.
6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed).
7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[20] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed).
8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[21]. A later version of the bill that changed a minor provision of which the President disapproved was quickly passed by Congress (H.R. 4986) and was enacted with the President's approval as Pub.L. 110-181 on 28 January 2008.
9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[22][23] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188.
10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[24][25] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-234 over the President's veto. Due to a clerical error, this act was repealed by Pub.L. 110-246.
11. 18 June 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6124, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill, re-passed by Congress to correct a clerical error in HR 2419.[26] Overridden by House, 317-109 (284 votes required). Overridden by Senate, 80-14 (63 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-246 over the President's veto.
12. July 15, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6331, Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act.[27] Overridden by House, 383-41 (283 votes required.) Overridden by Senate, 70-26 (64 votes required). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-275 over the President's veto.
NOW WHAT THE F**K IS YOUR PROBLEM AGAIN?
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
You might find it interesting to read up on Harry Markopolos, the whistle blower on Madoff. He (and most others) says the economy's collapse was based in the banks unregulated 600 TRILLION credit default swap market. He described it like this: "It's like buying fire insurance polices on your neighbors house from five different companies and then burning the house down."
Freddie and Fannie are a symptom, not the root.
Carole65--hellooo.. knock-knock, brain dead? i listed all of Bush's vetoes of the democrat congress. you was bitching with your mouth open so i dont know wtf you're talking about. but i'm always open to new entertaining info.
It appears that you poor losers picked the wrong Thursday to spread lies on the internet! innovations HAS KICKED YOUR LYING TAILS! LOLOLOLOL
Progressive2 it is so annoying when i see Clinton's name mentioned when it comes to the questioning of our failed economy. You listed "The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families." Assuming that's the direction you want to really go, keep in mind that the economy was fabulous in Clinton's time. 24 million jobs were created through Clinton. Thats tons of stimulus floating the economy. The Dow Jones rose from 2,000 to 10,000 under Clinton and continued to climb to 13,000 as Bush inherited the best economy in the world only to f**k it up.
in 1998 Clinton allowed(did NOT Veto) I think it's called the glass eagle act that deregulated the banks which makes it part of the collapse.(He didn't Veto the bill).
Note that this bill was passed by a Republican Controlled congress.
I'm with Progressive2. Lots of folks contributed to this mess.
progressive2 here is a list of all clinton's vetoes includuing 1998.
But as stated, the economy was so boomed up that it was ok to extend loans for those who may have had a shady credit score because there were jobs everywhere. I was in my early 20's in the 1st term of Clinton and I was given a $22k credit card on a job paying $9/hr. I max'd out on that card in 3 months but found a 2nd job in 2 days to pay it back. thats how easy it was back then. It wasnt a risk when clinton was in office.
Table 1. President Clinton's Vetoes
Bill Number Date of
Veto Title Override
Attempt
H.R. 1158 06/07/95 Second Supplemental
Appropriations and Rescissions
Act for FY1995
No attempt.
S. 21 08/11/95 Bosnia and Herzegovina
Self-Defense Act of 1995
No attempt.
H.R. 1854 10/03/95 Legislative Branch
Appropriations for FY1996
No attempt.
H.R. 2586 11/13/95 Increase in the Statutory
Debt Limit
No attempt.
H.J.Res. 115 11/14/95 Second Continuing Resolution
for FY1996
No attempt.
H.R. 2491 12/06/95 Budget Reconciliation No attempt.
H.R. 1977 12/18/95 Interior Appropriations
for FY1996
House sustained
01/04/96 by
239-177.
H.R. 2099 12/18/95 Veterans Affairs and Housing
and Urban Development
Appropriations for FY1996
No attempt.
H.R. 2076 12/19/95 Commerce, Justice, and State
Appropriations for FY1995
House sustained
01/03/96 by
240-159.
CRS-3
Bill Number Date of
Veto Title Override
Attempt
H.R. 1058 12/19/95 Securities Litigation Reform Act House overrode
12/20/95 by
319-100, Senate
overrode
12/22/95 by 68-
30. P.L. 104-67.
H.R. 1530 12/28/95 Defense Authorizations
for FY1996
House sustained
01/03/96 by
240-156.
H.R. 4 01/09/96 Welfare Reform Act No attempt.
H.R. 1833 04/10/96 Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of
1995
House overrode
09/19/96 by
285-137. Senate
sustained
09/26/96 by 57-
41.
H.R. 1561 04/12/96 American Overseas Interest Act
of 1996
House sustained
04/30/96 by
234-188.
H.R. 956 05/02/96 Common Sense Product Liability
Legal Reform Act of 1996
House sustained
05/09/96 by
258-163.
H.R. 743 06/30/96 Teamwork for Employees and
Managers Act of 1996
No attempt.
H.R. 2909 10/02/96 Amends Silvio O. Conte National
Fish and Wildlife Refuge Act
No attempt.
H.R. 1469 06/09/97 Flood Relief Bill No attempt.
H.R. 1122 10/10/97 Partial Birth Abortion House overrode
07/23/98 by
296-132. Senate
sustained
09/18/98 by 64-
36.
H.R. 2631 11/13/97 Disapproving Cancellations House overrode
02/05/98 by
347-69. Senate
overrode
02/25/98 by 78-
20. P.L. 105-
159.
S. 1502 05/20/98 D.C. Student Vouchers No attempt.
H.R. 2709 06/23/98 Iran Sanctions Bill No attempt
CRS-4
Bill Number Date of
Veto Title Override
Attempt
H.R. 2646 07/21/98 Education Savings Account No attempt.
H.R. 4101 10/07/98 FY1999 Agriculture
Appropriations
No attempt.
H.R. 1757 10/21/98 Foreign Affairs Reform No attempt.
H.R. 2488 09/23/99 Tax Relief Bill No attempt.
H.R. 2587 09/28/99 D.C. Appropriations, FY2000 No attempt.
H.R. 2606 10/18/99 Foreign Operations Spending,
FY2000
No attempt.
H.R. 2670 10/26/99 Commerce, Justice, and State
Appropriations, FY2000
No attempt.
H.R. 3064 11/03/99 District of Columbia
Appropriations, FY2000 and
Education, Labor, and HHS
Appropriations, FY2000
No attempt.
S. 1287 04/25/00 Nuclear Waste Policy
Amendments Act of 2000
Senate sustained
05/03/00 by 64-
35.
H.R. 4810 08/05/00 Marriage Tax Relief Bill House sustained
09/13/00 by
270-158.
H.R. 8 08/31/00 Estate Tax Elimination Act House sustained
09/07/00 by
274-157
H.R. 4733 10/07/00 Energy and Water Development House overrode
10/11/00 by
315-98. Senate
referred veto to
committee
H.R. 4516 10/30/00 Legislative Branch and Treasury
Appropriations
No attempt.
H.R. 4392 11/04/00 Intelligence Authorization Bill No attempt.
Carol65 hits a trifecta.
1. she agrees with timmyboy
2. She lies about the cause of the housing crisis
3. and she approves of Ron Paul
Just when you think Economists are useless you hit it point by point.
This is a great Article!
Just as I pointed out in a previous thread, the Republican fantasy of being the party of "fiscal responsibility" is just that, a fantasy.
This is an excellent article that will unfortunately do nothing to stem the hysterical delusions of the wilfully ignorant. The tea-baggers, the birthers, the town hall hissy fitters, the fundamentalists the so-called "family values" crowd - the whole ignorant lot of them - don't care about the facts.
The truth is, the wilfully ignorant are scared to death. They see a world of change that is leaving them behind. Their only response is hatred and delusional beliefs that make them feel that they are still somehow relevant, the truth be damned.
Since the founding of this nation, the wise have understood that democracy required a well-informed citizenry in order to function and survive. The wilfully ignorant and their cyncial leaders pose a greater threat to this nation than any foreign "terrrorist".
Thank you, Mr. Bartlett, for a clear and honest accounting of how we got into this mess. Sadly, it is precisely the type of clear-headed thinking that the wilfully ignorant will ignore.
And thank you for your intelligent perspective. You are right on the mark.
The blame should be on "government" then and now. For the last 76 years, since Roosevelt took office, the govermment has gone deeper and deeper into debt on an annual basis with a few exceptions. And even in the years when there was a surplus, notably in the Clinton years, it was due to a clearly unsustainable economic bubble. It doesn't matter who is in office, the federal government is incapable of fiscal prudence.
To place blame on one president or another misses the point that politicians, especially Obama, pander to the economic interests of their supporters, and now with, apparently, more than half the nation not paying income tax, Obama has secure base of the needy helpless who hope to never pay taxes again.
Obama will leave office in 2013 or 2017 with the federal debt at an all time high, and at near record highs with respect to GDP, and he will still be claiming it would have been worse if he hadn't dug a deeper hole.
Obama cannot borrow his way out of the hole he is in, and solve our economic problems by just giving away money to those incapable of supporting themselves, incapable of buying health insurance, incapable of getting a loan, and incapable of buying a new car. He needs to stop seeking approval from the helpless by giving them a handout, and for once send the more difficult message that for the good of us all, the individual is responsible.
Obama needs to tell his supporters that If they don't contribute to the nation by paying taxes, stop asking the nation to contribute to them. In the words of his hero - "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
Stop looking for a handout - all you need is out there for sale. Earn some money, buy it, and shut up.
Well, there you have it. Thanks for self-identifying as WI. Here's your sign.
I believe this expresses well the Obama creed:
"If you who own the things people must have could understand this, you might preserve yourself. If you could separate causes from results, if you could know that Paine, Marx, Jefferson, Lenin, were results, not causes, you might survive. But that you cannot know. For the quality of owning freezes you forever into "I," and cuts you off forever from the "we."
What the creed fails to understand is that the "we" wants the "I" to provide insurance, sick days, vacation time, and retirement benefits. At least a good income ensures one can still be cut off from the "we," a fact Obama is working hard to change. Keep believing "we" are the change we've been waiting for and "I" will continue to take care of myself.
Ya know some of you weiners like to gripe about BIG BAD GOVERNMENT while driving down a road....getting a drink of clean water...mailing a letter or calling the police.....and at the same time you scream that BIG BAD GOVERNMENT should stay our of health care.....yet you will draw Social Security, you will use Medicare and the laws that keep your private insurance from bending you over? Are written by the Government......
Sad thing? Your little heads are soooo squeezed by that tin foil hat you wear that you cant see the forrest for the trees!
Well, based on taxfoundation.org: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html
it appears that those top ten non-tax paying citizens live in the following states:
Mississippi 43% 1
Louisiana 40% 2
Arkansas 38% 3
New Mexico 38% 4
Alabama 38% 5
Texas 36% 6
Montana 36% 7
Oklahoma 36% 8
South Carolina 36% 9
Georgia 36% 10
Perhaps if these states provided a decent education for their citizens, more of them might make a higher income so they wouldn't be getting a full refund. But then again, aren't all these states union free? Just the way employers like it, so they can continue to depress wages.
You are correct in that only once in our history was the government debt free - during Andrew Jackson's presidency. But it didn't last long. You see wars cost money - lots of money and it is never a good idea to invade a country that has not caused you any harm, because you still have to pay for it.
treetracker, Do u notice all those non-tax paying citizens live in states that voted republican?? NONE OF THOSE STATES VOTED DEMOCRAT. Looks like the republicans take care of their own and tax the hell out of the hard-working tax paying Democrat states.
@Dobodob,
How typical and hypicritcal of you the same...say no one president is to blame, but the first thing comes out of your mouth is blaming and or criticizing President Obama for things...you right-wing nut jobs are flipping hillarious!!!
You're confused. It's the Republicans who are constantly whining about taxes. Show how tax cuts have created even one job and I'll give you a cigar (if you smoke).
What fairy tale do you live in? People all over this country have lost their homes and their jobs. What jobs are you proposing they get? Do you have one to offer them? Until you are in the same boat as many other Americans, then perhaps you are the one who needs to shut up.
Misplaced rage? This registered "Unenrolled" voter believes Obama wasn't even really elected! IF DROWNING OUT OPPOSING FACTS IS un-AMERICAN THEN IGNORING UNPLEASANT FACTS IS un-AMERICAN TOO
Put down the crack pipe and just say no. Did you even read the article or are you just responding to the title? You're a tool.
A perfect example of primates breeding and then enrolling their off spring in a souther school.....
This is getting tiresome. Of course I understand that the GOP did poorly during their tenure in the majority. I also admit that Bush did a less than stellar job of handling the economy. But trying to push the blame back to House Republicans and G.W. is just a cop-out for failing to hold your own president and congress accountable for porked up spending and rushed legislation.
You all seem to think that the Dems are now invincible...that the death of the GOP is inevitable. However, if you continue to fail so miserably at holding your leaders responsible for their words and actions, you'll find yourself right back in the minority.
Don't be fooled, the drastic measures taken by our Dem leaders were not all necessary to mending our economy. Half of what we've seen coming out of Congress and the WH is simply an attempt to further their own agenda, regardless of what the American people want/need.
Furthermore, seeing how Obama's approval has since dropped to 47% (still a good rating, of course but not as out-of-this world as it was a mere month ago), I'm going to assume it's more than just isolated Right Wingnuts who are dubious about Obama's spending spree.
It is tiresome. Your stupidity and hypocrisy that is. Face it. Rethugs are a dismal failure and a waste of space. If I had my way I'd throw you all in gitmo for you did to this country.
Actually ALL polls short of the one Fox News presents have Obama at 60% or above. Try using facts though I know you might find it difficult......
As for Obamas agenda? Honey thats called a MANDATE and everything he has done? since he was elected? Is give the people who voted for him what he promised them.....deal with it.
ella04, that "spending spree" of Obama is necessary to start stimulus and catch up to our debts. With over 10 million out of work, how do we get the revenue we need to pay our bills?? The govt only gets money through taxes. Do u suggest we go to China AGAIN and borrow more trillions?? I dont even think they'll lend it to us. Obama's cash for clunkers is a success. He took $1 billion of our tax dollar and invested in this plan for the rebates. In one week the $1 billion was gone. We sold 300,000 cars in one week. The rebates were only $3,000 average with $4,500 being the highest payback. People were buying cars costing $20,000-$30,000. Do you think 300,000 customers walked in with cash to pay for the difference? They financed it. That's 300,000 financed loans at 7-9% interest for 48 months. That $1 billion turned into a surplus for us. And this cash for clunker plan ends in November. There's no telling how many more cars we'll sell. And notice Obama did this without being bi-partisan about it. Because Obama is realizing that you cannot work with Republicans. They insult everything you do and then call up FoxNews to have them spread evil lies. If Obama brought the cash for clunkers to congress, that would have been another protest and shouting match. Sometimes you're better off just doing it.
Just when I was ready to give up on finding anyone that I could agree with, I found you. Excellent posts, innovations. Up till now, the only person that filled the empty spaces where logic should be was my husband. Thanks for shining a light in this dark night.
Beanpoop. Bush spent a trillion dollars (so far) in Iraq and what did that expenditure stimulate (except Blacwater and Dyncorp)? For less money, all Americans can have access to quality health care. Gee, aint math great!
You go light on the Bush administration by describing them/him as "did poorly" and "less than stellar job". Try instead "egregious self-interest" and "incompetent and morally bankrupt".
What Obama -- and "We, the People" in herited was an unholy economic, fiscal and foreign stew that he and his Neocons created. It is impossible to UNdo that mess overnight. (Don't forget we're in a worldwide recession where the only countries pulling out of it faster have more stringent controls on their banks!!!)
We are an ADD nation that wants everything solved yesterday and without any pain to our pockets or our small minds. No one here thinks the Dems are "invincible" or 100% right, but there is an earnest attempt to 'right' the Ship of State. And your notion that measures taken were unnnecessary are not backed up,even by conservative pundits or economists like Krugman who think we'd be WAY worse off otherwise, especially considering who would have been in the White House now. (Something you elect to overlook.)
Who the hell cares about Obama's rating (or Bush's) on any given day? The presidency is not a popularity contest. It's a position that demands vision and strategy. Right now the GOP is offering neither and is withering because of its in-fighting and astonishing capacity to stall and balk rather than lead. I'll take the long, slow cure rather than another tax break for corporations as the way out of this mess, with continuing hope that we will uplift a larger segment of the population than the Repugs even know exist.
Where is Phil Gramm? Didn't he say, Americans were a bunch of crybabies? There wasn't a Recession... It was all in our heads or something, like that? He has a PhD in Economics... Wonder if they will demand his return of the Degree...
He was right about the crybabies, but he actually said whiners. Whining over a recession is like whining over spilt milk. What's the point, clean it up. You have to admit there is a lot of whining going on, especially here on The Daily Bleat.
I have yet to see a blogger here say "I made a few bad choices in my life and it hurt me. It was my fault, and I would do things differently now. It's going to take a long time for me to climb out of this hole." You sound like a bunch of addicts: "It's not my fault, blame the demon Rum." Too much whining not enough pride - or should I say self respect, it seems more PC than actually being proud of something one has accomplished.
why not whine when Many of us did the right things financially but were still smacked down by the Repub spending spree...
Let me tell you my story: I worked my butt off to get into a good university, and I worked even harder to excel at that university. I studied topics that I thought would help me have a deep understanding of our world and society. That was apparently mistake number one - I should have majored in business. After graduating, I realized that all that knowledge and breadth of knowledge, looking a the big picture, had no market value. I held many jobs, trying to find my way and keep my head above water, living in a world that values profit over knowledge and wisdom. I continued to have an outstanding work ethic and desire to grow. In September of 2008 I was working as a video editor, and my company (which happened to be run by staunch conservatives) began to collapse with the rest of the economy - the majority of the very capable staff was laid off and I was reduced to part time. In November, I was laid off as well, regardless of my work ethic. Life since then has been a horrific, anxious scramble. high unemployment numbers don't just mean a certain percentage aren't working - they mean that companies are firing rather than hiring. Even if I hustle and con my way into another job, there will be 99 other hard working college graduates who don't get that job. That is what a recession means. Whining has nothing to do with it. Was it a mistake not to spend my college years studying business and approach life from a me-first, profit-obsessed mindset? Maybe. But I tell you what - it's a much bigger mistake - and a tragedy - that we have created a world where that should be the case.
" Too much whining not enough pride - or should I say self respect..." How about personal accountability for our behavior? We've become a soft, self-centered spoiled nation of consumers. We outsourced all our manufacturing so corporations could generate more profit and so we consumers could buy more. Well, guess what? Now we have little manufacturing capacity left, huge endebtedness to China and few of us can afford what we outsoureced for. It's time for "sucking it up" and behaving more responsibly economically.
So, this guy is saying that conservatives should be protesting a guy who isn't even in office? I think conservatives did abandon Bush. His approval rating was in the 20's for two years and the Repulbicans took a beating in 2006 and 2008. Obama is the one trying to jam something down the public's throat that the majority of the country doesn't want. How long exactly are we supposed to blame Bush for everything and how exactly people go about protesting him? He's gone and the US fired Republicans. What more do you want? just because Bush was fiscally irresponsible doesn't mean we should allow Obama to be 100 times worse...
What we shouldn't allow is mental patients like you roaming around amoung the populice.
So, everyone that disagrees with you and Obama about health care is a mental patient?
Stay classy, liberals...
Compared to people like Rexblat? We are the classy party these days! LOLOLOLOLOL
"Obama is the one trying to jam something down the public's throat that the majority of the country doesn't want." What, precisely -- and based on FACTS -- are you talking about? (And try not to overlook that he won the election and has a mandate for change from the disasterous course we were on.)
If it's health care you're wailing about, Obama is trying to
* Get more people insured so they aren't using the emergency rooms of hospitals as their standard medical care (which in turn costs the rest of us $$),
*Regulate insurance companies so they can't turn away people with pre-existing conditions and
* Expand options in how one buys health care.
The actual legislation is not gelled yet. It's complicated, but we will bankrupt this nation if we don't solve this problem. What about these basic principles do you not get?
Stop listening to Palin and Limbaugh and try facts for a change. With 6 lobbyists to every Congressional Rep, there is plenty of interference between the facts of the legislation and our getting correct information. Be very wary of ads and those who rant the loudest.
This kind of commentary really reeks of "I wanna be friends with the mainstream media" style of "conservatism.
Obama spends more than Bush, and all other previous presidents combined, in a few months and this guy shrugs his shoulders. What a joke.
Well written nonsense. Bush rammed through the bailout...democrats voted it in.Now Obama wants to finish the bankruptcy of the US by adding millions of uninsured to the taxpayers' burden. Thanks, but no thanks. These people already get free health care at ERs across the nation. California is broke, not in some small part because of the cost of health care to illegals. Meanwhile, not one mention of the legal costs associated with health care. If "loser pays" as in UK were applicable here, you might see a precipitous drop off in health care costs. Malpractice insurance has crippled many specialties. Try finding OB care in southern Illinois, or a neurosurgeon.
And you are a well known economist? How the hell do you know? ER is NOT free!! It get passed down to use through taxes; and why should people have to wait to be seen in the ER when they need healthcare? It might be too late for them then!! What a dumb ass post!
Your astonishing claim that things are okay because there is "free health care at ERs across the nation" is oblivious to the reality that thie "free card" directly impacts those of us paying for a plan.
Do you think that hospitals and plan providers suck up the costs of those getting free care? You know very little of how the current system works if you think we've got a working system now. We are going BANKRUPT. We will not be able to afford our plans 10 years from now at the current rate. Tort reform should be part of the efforts, but in the scheme of things is less the problem than being unable to get coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurance reform is infinitely more important which is why the lobbyists are supporting negative campaigns.
Do you need a nuerosurgeon, scollins? I'd consider something less invasive to deal with your issues, but hey you can always move.
good point- people keep forgetting how much money Obama has spent in just EIGHT months!!!!!
There are plenty of people to be mad at. Bush and Obama included.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9-2PhChboU
I love your "facts". Bush set the record on spending. Of course, he also set a record for the # of Executive Orders so he could work around legislation passed by Congress. And of course there's that other record: # of days out of the White House. Very admirable.
I'll take Obama ANY day over Bush.
Bruce!!!! YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am printing and framing your article!!!!!
No. Bruce is not the man. He is a hack. He ignores Congress's role in the economy, and leaves out any effect 9-11 had on the economy.
When you re-examine his analysis while being mindful of the facts I brought up, you realize he's full of crap.
Intelligent people analyze data, then come to a conclusion based on the data. Mr. Bartlett, on the other hand, already had his conclusion. He just fudged the data and facts to match the conclusion.
It's similar to "reverse engineering".
You're a total idiot.
Here's one simple fact
Bush turned a Budget Surplus into a Deficit FACT.
Boy those facts really bother you dont they djanimaequueen?
I agree with the main point that Bush is responsible for growing the government. However, the GOP paid for their largess by losing control of both houses of Congress and eventually the WH.
Voters have already used their vote to punish the overspending and bureaucracy creating laws that the 107th, 108th and 109th Congress' were responsible for.
Since Obama has been in office, he has dwarfed the most egregious spending by Bush. In addition, he has nationalized banks and the auto industry. Those actions are singularly his. Therefore the anger his policies are now receiving are justified.
Just a reminder, blaming Bush is old and stale. He is not on the ballot and his signature has not been on any bill this yr.
FACTS:
* Obama has not spent more than Bush, but our deficit continues to grow because of the interest owed on our debt that ballooned during the last 8 years.
* Obama has not nationalized banks. Several of the banks are already out of the bailout system that Bush started, and of course over-compensating its executives right away while not dispensing the loans that the GOP agreed were necessary in 2008.
* Obama has not nationalized the auto industry. A few of the big buys have just had a profitable quarter, thanks to Cash for Clunkers. The Repugs hate the program because it has been successful in helping the whole automotive supply chain to recover.
It is not "stale" to blame Bush because he sowed and watered this recession. We cannot climb out from the problems he started in a mere six months of effort so take your meds for the ADD you're suffering from and buckle up. It's going to take a long while still before we get on even footing again. Two terms of Obama and we'll get there.
Well lets see, I did complain when Bush thought spending 400 billion dollars frivolously was a good idea.
Now that Obama wants to spend another trillion frivolously, I think that is a bad idea too. And the 2.4% economic downturn from cap & trade? Yeah, I think that's a bad plan too.
Who should I protest about cap & trade? Reagan? Sure he's dead, but you want me to protest a man who isn't in office; why not a dead guy too?
Then we get to TARP2 and Stimulus package #2... I think I'll protest Nixon over those... just to spread around the random protesting of people who are no longer is office.
I wonder if my protests of Bush, Reagan, and Nixon will have any effect on... past Washington... somehow rippling through time to change the past. Seems unlikely, very quantum, but I'm pretty sure conventional knowledge of physics precludes time travel.
Maybe I'd have to try to have an effect on people who either are elected officials now, or will be in the future? Naah, that's crazy right-winger talk... and probably racist too.
This is a great post. It gives a lot to think about.
And we wonder why people are disenchanted with the political elites. It matters little who caused what problems. How does the blame game in and of itself solve any of the problems? Let's start with debating the role of the federal government. Neither Party has a monopoly on virtue or badness.
The current activities that ostensibly question the actions of our elected officials are incredibly healthy if for no other reason that they are revealing in many cases the arrogance of our elected officials. Officials that won't take the time to even pretend they value the input of their constituency need to be unelected.
What good does hating Bush have? Obama is in charge now and he's the one making things worse. Do the Republicans need to change? You bet! But Bush-bashing fits into the Democrats - "it's not our fault". We should hold Obama accountable while letting the Republicans know - the status quo has changed.
Why does Bush get 6 years until criticism starts and President Obama gets 7 months?
THANK YOU. You remarks echo mine about being an ADD nation that needs all its problems solved in a blink and with as little pain as possible. Bush had a very long grace period in which he bragged about having "political capital". Grant Obama the same, without that arrogance.
Haha! What a desperate editorial! Still trying to blame Bush are you? Isn't this racist, I mean he doesn't have enough respect for Obama as a black to let him stand up and face his own errors? Truly a racist writer!!
No. What's racist are those astro turf, ignorant of the facts birthers and deathers at these "designed to be disruptive" town halls.
Nice try at attempting to turn this into a pseudo-racist issue. Says a lot about you. The article asks us to look at how we got here and to understand the origins of the problem. Bartlett uses facts, which you're allergic to. Dispense with the pettiness of your rant and take an Economics 101 course. You'll be better off for it.
"Haha! What a desperate editorial!"
Look up an article by Phil Agre on The New Jargon.
and
Why Neoconservative Jargon Threatens the Language Itself
The "ha-ha" pretense of laughing at you, and "that's hilarious" and "desperation" coupled with illogical accusations. More: "well, that is scary"
Agre says:
My problem with a passage like this is not exactly that it is nasty, but that it is nasty in a stereotyped and cultivated way. It is part of a technology of nastiness.
The phrase "ignoring facts" is part of the rhetoric of public relations. Facts (which in practice need not be factual, but never mind about that for now) are what you use to create an association between two concepts, or else to break an association that you do not like.
I want particularly to remark on the word "inaccurate". This is another term of art in the public-relations vocabulary of the jargon. In the jargon usage, "inaccurate" does not mean "false".
Rather, PR distinguishes between "messages" and "facts". "Messages" are strategically vague, and someone else's "message" is ispo facto "inaccurate" if it conflicts with your own. Of course, you can't tell from this guy's e-mail that he meant "inaccurate" in that sense; it is simply that he is consistently using a lexicon and a mode of reasoning that derives from public relations, and "inaccurate" is part of that. The lexicon is like a toolkit, and every word in the toolkit has a function in the rhetorical technology of the jargon.
Just a sample from Phil Agre back in 2000, you see this everywhere.
Bruce Bartlett is not a conservative.
I agree! He's far too reasonable.
Bruce Bartlett is not a Republican, but he IS a conservative ... please take a look at his credentials. A conservative makes rational arguments supported by facts, Republicans (what's left of 'em) just scream NO.
Very good article; only two things that bothered me, though. Number one, your insistence that conservatives are not themselves proposing any alternatives, is simply not true. Several conservative think tanks have been trying repeatedly to get their more sensible plans involving tort reform, technological modernization, and R&D grants into the light. Ex. Gingrich's Center for Health Transformation: http://www.healthtransformation.net/ The problem is no one wants to pay attention. Liberals choose to ignore it because an expensive national healthcare system will transform the political landscape to keep all elections for the next century on their terms and their home field. Most of the media seems to avoid it because, well, they are still in love with Obama and everything he does, even though the rest of country is starting to get a little more aggrivated with him. Obama's and the congressional democrats' big, pricey health plan is simply way sexier than any boring tort reform/modernization thing being talked about by a bunch of crusty old conservative policy wonks. So, the dems' huge, destructive, nationalized healthcare proposal that emulates the other nationalized healthcare systems that have failed in every single other country they've been tried in is what gets the attention on the news.
Second, are you really surprised that all the activist right is acting so hypocritical. C'mon man, activists on both sides are raging hypocrites. It's why the anti-war crowd was completely dormant every time Clinton dropped bombs on Sudan or Iraq just to get the country's attention off of Monica's mouth on his... well, you know. Not a peep from the left that whole time. But then when a republican starts dropping bombs? Whoa! Clear the streets! No one's going to work today! We gotta protest march against sick, fascist slaughterfest this sicko Bush is raging!
Fast forward to now. The right was asleep when Bush handed the country countless spending increases that should make any good conservative turn in their sleep. But now that a democrat is spending like a drunken sailor? Well, look at YouTube to see what happens.
It's just the way it works with activists folks. They're only bitching when the other party is messing up. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying let's recognize the pattern and not be surprised by it.
PS-And why are you people still sticking to this delusional conspiracy theory that all these protesters are simply the republican's puppets? Yeah, a few of them are, but a lot aren't. And you're just making them madder and madder by saying they are.
The Republicans spent too much.
The Marxists in the Democratic party used Fannie Mae/ Freddie Mac as part of a strategy to overload the government bureaucracy and collapse the economy, so they could create an opening to implement their radical, liberty-killing agenda.
They did this under the guise of helping the poor and screaming, "Racist!" every time someone pointed out that it was not fiscally sound to make loans to people who could not afford to pay them back.
Let's get some real conservatives in office, who can start dismantling overreaching government programs, repealing oppressive laws, shutting down the government-sponsored enterprises, and giving the money we have earned back to us.
Let's impose term limits so we have real representatives of the people in office, not a cabal of dictator wannabes. Let's create and support a conservative press and film industry, pull our children out of universities that tenure anti-American terrorists, and put an end to the culture of entitlement.
America is the land of the FREE. Let's put the government back in its place.
The only place I differ with Bartlett is the idea that bailing out Wall Street and "socializing" the banks while placing no limits or rules on how they spent the booty (i.e. privatizing the Treasury, not socializing the banks) was a necessary component for Obama to "save capitalism". I'm still with Hudson and Zarlenga. Federalize the Fed and take it out of private hands. Tax the hell out of useless and parasitic economic rents. Eliminate or minimize taxes on production and wages, make it highly progressive, hit billionaries much harder than hundred-thousandaires dont put them in the same bracket, tax LAND, resources, interest, etc.
This is in line with the views of the classical liberal political economists who "invented" capitalism, partly Smith, but mostly Ricardo, Veblen, George, etc.
Fannie was created by FDR (and later Freddie) to repurchase mortgages from banks. THEY DO NOT offer mortgages to people. F and F then repackage those mortgages (fraudulent creations of the banks rated as AAA) as Mortgage-Backed Securities and sell them off to banks and investors, which borrowed against them ten or forty times or more, as "assets".
Loose lending was encouraged because it created new mortgage-backed securities, not because Bush wanted to help poor people. Puh-leeeze!
"According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the recession began in December 2007-long before Obama was even nominated. And the previous recession ended in November 2001, so the current recession cannot be blamed on cyclical forces that Bush inherited."
Nice spin, but COMPLETE AND UTTER B.S.!
Here's where you are wrong:
1) Democrats took control of Congress in 2007. THEY began writing the spending bills. The economy has far, far more to do with Congress than it does a President...and this Bartlett guy is a "LEADING conservative ECONOMIST"? More like a spin-monkey taking the Megan McCain route and getting a column not for his skill but for being a critic of conservatives.
2) You point out the previous recession ended in November of 2001. November of 2001...September of '01...why does that date stick in my mind? Damnit, I shouldn't HAVE TO REMIND PEOPLE OF 9-FREAKIN'-11, and it pisses me off to no end that I have to remind...ahem...this "leading economist" that the events of that day damaged the economy, destroyed many businesses, and hurt consumer confidence.
Bartlett is no conservative. He's an Obama apologist, telling lies by omission.
Not on my watch, slappy. I'm here to out your B.S.
RE: point #2
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/webfeatures_viewpoints_9_11_econom y/
What I remember about the economy post 9/11 is that little sign in EVERY window that said "AMERICA: OPEN FOR BUSINESS." As though what we spend proves how little these colors run. As it turns out, we weren't spending what we'd earned, just what we could borrow. Kind of like how we financed the Irag War.
If anything, 9/11 BOOSTED consumer confidence.
Get OVER nine-eleven. More people die from lack of health care every day than died that day. More people die in car accidents every day than died that day. More people have died in Iraq and Afghanistan than died that day. More people died in concentration camps during WWII than died that day. Get over it. Life is dangerous. People die. That day is was marketed and continues to be marketed by the (R) party like cheap bologna on daytime tv.
GET OVER IT.
I take it none of you're friends or family members were in anyway affected by the so called 'act of terror'. Get over it?....
BASTARD!
lmktacwa,
I agree that 9-11 was marketed and continues to be marketed by the (R) party like cheap bologna on daytime tv.
What most people still don't realize is that Michael Ledeen stated in 1999 or 2000 in his book that an attack on America like Pearl Harbor would be "lucky" and "providential" after which Bush took him on as a national security consultant.
Also in 2000, members of PNAC --- which include Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz as well as Kristol and many other leading Neo-cons --- stated in a 70-page report on Rebuilding America's Defenses, that starting multiple simultaneous wars was VITAL to the future of American global hegemony, which they believe is vital also to world affairs, and that these wars could NOT be launched EXCEPT in the instance of a "catastrophic and catalyzing event" which soon followed. Prior to that, they'd been hyping for an attack on Iraq for at least 4 years.
Wolfowitz had been hyping for an attack on Iraq since his days in the first Bush admin, and wrote a 1994 DoD policy statement (the Wolfowitz Doctrine) advocating for an Iraq War.
How did these guys get so g-dmn LUCKY on 9-11?
More recently, Rumsfeld cited a new 9-11 as a solution to public disillusion with war, and just a few months ago a leading conservative ex-CIA named Scheuer told Glenn Beck the ONLY chance for America is for Osama Bin Laden to detonate a nuclear bomb in an American city. Beck basically agreed with him.
Which city do you wish to sacrifice to "save America", Michael and Glenn?
Ditto other Fox personalities, like Brian Kilmeade and Jon Gibson.
YNOT4TONY2, WHILE IT IS TRUE THE DEMOCRATS TOOK CONTROL OF CONGRESS IN 2007, BUSH VETOED ALL OF THEIR BILLS. HE IS THE ONLY PRESIDENT THAT FOR 6 YEARS IN A ROW SIGNED ALL THE SPENDING BILLS WITHOUT ONE SINGLE VETO. HERE IS THE LIST:
George W. Bush
1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed).
2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of... H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President's approval.
3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.
4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP"). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed).
5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President's veto.
6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed).
7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[20] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed).
8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[21]. A later version of the bill that changed a minor provision of which the President disapproved was quickly passed by Congress (H.R. 4986) and was enacted with the President's approval as Pub.L. 110-181 on 28 January 2008.
9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[22][23] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188.
10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[24][25] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-234 over the President's veto. Due to a clerical error, this act was repealed by Pub.L. 110-246.
11. 18 June 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6124, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill, re-passed by Congress to correct a clerical error in HR 2419.[26] Overridden by House, 317-109 (284 votes required). Overridden by Senate, 80-14 (63 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-246 over the President's veto.
12. July 15, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6331, Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act.[27] Overridden by House, 383-41 (283 votes required.) Overridden by Senate, 70-26 (64 votes required). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-275 over the President's veto.
AS FAR AS 9/11 IS CONCERNED, YOU'LL BE SHOCKED TO KNOW THAT BUSH PAID NOT ONE DIME. THE CBO REPORT OF SEPT 9, 2008 STATES: "The Bush Administration's refusal to offset the
costs of its new tax cuts, new entitlement expansions, and the wars have led to the ballooning of the national debt. This Administration has pushed through tax cuts that cost roughly $2 trillion, as well as a Medicare prescription drug bill that cost $400 billion. The wars have already cost nearly $900 billion. Yet, the Administration has paid for none of these measures. In fact, if the Bush Administration's tax cuts and the war had been fully offset, we would not be facing such a mountain of debt, which threatens our economy and our ability to meet the needs of our citizens."
SO NO YOU DONT HAVE TO REMIND US OF 9/11, AND HOW THE EVENTS OF THAT DAY RUINED OUR ECONOMY, BUT MAYBE NOW YOU CAN REMIND EVERYONE HOW BUSH PAID NOT ONE PENNY TO FUND IT WHEN CLINTON LEFT HIM A $5.6 TRILLION SURPLUS.
YNOT4TONY2, WHILE IT IS TRUE THE DEMOCRATS TOOK CONTROL OF CONGRESS IN 2007, BUSH VETOED ALL OF THEIR BILLS. HE IS THE ONLY PRESIDENT THAT FOR 6 YEARS IN A ROW SIGNED ALL THE SPENDING BILLS WITHOUT ONE SINGLE VETO. HERE IS THE LIST:
George W. Bush
1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed).
2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of... H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President's approval.
3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.
4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP"). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed).
5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President's veto.
6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed).
7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[20] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed).
8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[21]. A later version of the bill that changed a minor provision of which the President disapproved was quickly passed by Congress (H.R. 4986) and was enacted with the President's approval as Pub.L. 110-181 on 28 January 2008.
9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[22][23] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188.
10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[24][25] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-234 over the President's veto. Due to a clerical error, this act was repealed by Pub.L. 110-246.
11. 18 June 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6124, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill, re-passed by Congress to correct a clerical error in HR 2419.[26] Overridden by House, 317-109 (284 votes required). Overridden by Senate, 80-14 (63 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-246 over the President's veto.
12. July 15, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6331, Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act.[27] Overridden by House, 383-41 (283 votes required.) Overridden by Senate, 70-26 (64 votes required). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-275 over the President's veto.
AS FAR AS 9/11 IS CONCERNED, YOU'LL BE SHOCKED TO KNOW THAT BUSH PAID NOT ONE DIME. THE CBO REPORT OF SEPT 9, 2008 STATES: "The Bush Administration's refusal to offset the
costs of its new tax cuts, new entitlement expansions, and the wars have led to the ballooning of the national debt. This Administration has pushed through tax cuts that cost roughly $2 trillion, as well as a Medicare prescription drug bill that cost $400 billion. The wars have already cost nearly $900 billion. Yet, the Administration has paid for none of these measures. In fact, if the Bush Administration's tax cuts and the war had been fully offset, we would not be facing such a mountain of debt, which threatens our economy and our ability to meet the needs of our citizens."
SO NO YOU DONT HAVE TO REMIND US OF 9/11, AND HOW THE EVENTS OF THAT DAY RUINED OUR ECONOMY, BUT MAYBE NOW YOU CAN REMIND EVERYONE HOW BUSH PAID NOT ONE PENNY TO FUND IT WHEN CLINTON LEFT HIM A $5.6 TRILLION SURPLUS.
Obama has to stand on his own. Nobody forced the job on him. He told us he could do it, he ask for it, he's got it. If we don't like what he's doing, we should say so regardless of what we did or didn't think or say about Bush.
ThinkAgain - I believe you said something most excellent and true.
I would guess that the only we would disagree about in the context of just that statement is that I think Obama will succeed over time and that you think that he will fail, over time or otherwise. And time will tell.
This is a great article, if you're a democrat. Bruce, I can only assume that you wrote it to promote outrage between dems and repubs. While I don't agree with everything Progressive2 has to say I do agree that we all need to get over pointing fingers as to which party did it. Both are guilty. I'm sure I could provide a counter to any argument in this piece if I looked hard enough on the internet. We need to start having real conversations about issues and not spend time singing the party line song. We all become irrelevant while the politicians make decisions for us.
I am a Republican that will soon be changing to an Independent and I am going to start voting my conscience.
Innovations - I can see your blood pressure boiling in your post so I have supplied you, and the don't blame it on Barny crowd a link to a You Tube showing that the Bush administration did in fact warn congress as early as 2001 about possible problems with Fannie and Freddie and continued to up through 2006. Facts don't lie. That said "both" parties are to blame for our current situation. No actually we are, if we would have stood up like the tea baggers, as you call them maybe someone would have noticed. We were all too busy living the good life though. I think it's shameful that anyone could call a fellow American exercising their rights names just because they disagree with them. Did you when the Dems did it to Bush?? There are far too many real problems in this country right now to keep living in the past. Speak up and be heard and try not to rude.
Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing crisis; meltdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&eurl=http://lexington.bravelo g.com/&feature=player_embedded
Were you so reasonable when the Bush administration and their mouthpieces were calling those of who thought the war was a huge mistake idiots at best, traitors at worst? It's funny how suddenly we all need to get along. I was living fat during the Bush years. I was afraid of the inevitable blowback from all the fat living I saw around me. I didn't hate Republicans or conservatives then. Watching the way they abused their power and lied constantly taught me to distrust them. I see no reason to change that position so far. You're right, there were some Democratic fools who assisted in the foolishness, but the conservatives and their Republicans were a systematic scourge on the country. Still are.
No I wasn't, I was being a good Republican. That's my point really. A lot of people chose sides and voted party line without knowing who they were even voting for. As long as the govt. wasn't causing us too much trouble nobody really cared. I'm certainly not happy with the Republicans since they had the majority and all they did with it was they became Democrats. To be honest with you I don't remember the republican's bad mouthing citizens who were against the war so I'll have to take your word on it. I will tell you what I do think though. The hate speech coming out of Democrats like Pelosi and Reed is downright ridiculous not to mention that most of the main stream media won't even acknowledge the other side's point of view. You can look at a lot of these protesters and see that they are real and they are concerned. They have homemade signs and are obviously passionate about how they feel.
As far as the Republicans being the scourge I think that's a title shared by just about every politician. It's all about special interests, theirs.
I am not saying that we all have to get along. There are a lot of bills that this administration is trying to push through very quickly without anyone really even knowing what's in them and if we don't stop playing politics I'm afraid we may all be sorry and end up with something none of us want. How can anyone think that the same Federal Govt. that gave us Medicaid, Medicare, the VA, Indian Health Care, and Social Security which are all basically broke or will be shortly is going to fix everything for us with Universal Health Care for us but not for them. As a country we are broke and now they want to make it worse. It's time for the people to debate, decide and then tell the politicians what we want. I'm tired of them deciding what's best for us.
Timbo52--The 'HATE' speech coming out of Pelosi and Reed is pure frustration. Not everyone has the tolerance that Obama does. I'm still waiting for Obama to flip but the man just keeps his cool. I remember a few months back when they accused Pelosi of lying about knowing about the torturing in 2002. What difference would it had make if she did or didn't know? In 2002 Pelosi was Minority Whip. Minority Whips are outranked by almost everyone in Congress but the janitor. But the republicans just need to shift the attention away from those who knew about it and could have done something about it eg Dick Cheyney.
Innovations - It does matter if she knew or not. She called the CIA a bunch of liars. That doesn't give the American public a lot of confidence in one of our top security agencies. I think it is very important to know the truth what ever it is. You can't say that your against waterboarding and that its horrible to make political points if you in fact knew about it and said nothing when it was happening, its a credibility issue.
Timbo52, well lets face it, while Obama was looking into the matter, 97 video tapes that showed torture were burned. You think this was Pelosi?? Someone on the GOP side was obviously covering their tracks. And if Pelosi knew, she is a two-face. But looking at her title back then, she probably was there when it was being discussed, but paid no mind to it. After all, what can she do as a minority whip? So trying to put all the attention on her when she out-ranked by so many people back in 2002 is childish.
WOW!! You're a breath of fresh air. You are one of the very few who post on the DB, including me, who has stated the situation we are in today with facts and have done so without being rude. I, too, switched from Democrat to Independent this summer, because all the politicians in Washington are simply out of touch with average American citizens.
Thanks.............
That'll show 'em!
Timbo I just watched the video, and using someone's quotes is not proving anything. The fact remains in 2001, this economy was at its strongest. It began to decline when Bush's $5.6 trillion surplus turned into a $3.9 deficit in a matter of 2 short years. With that kind of deficit, everything gets effected. To try and blame all of this on fannie/freddie/barney is absurd. The Sept 23, 2004 CBO report tells you straight out: "According to the figures in today's report, the $5.6 trillion ten-year surplus inherited by the Bush Administration has
become a $3.3 trillion deficit - an $8.9 trillion deterioration. According to these figures, the nation's debt is projected to rise every year without limit, growing faster than its income." The CBO already told you what Bush did, and how our debt will continue to rise. And this was in Sept 2004, giving you time to vote for someone else. But re-elected Bush in with all this information. But I know what happened. You listen to FoxNews and they won't tell you this. You will not see any Fannie/Freddie in any CBO report as the cause for our disastrous economy because it's simply not true. This is Franks address on this matter. Notice after this noone has said anything about it: http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/financialsvcs_dem/press0312092.shtml
Innovations, you should check this graph out:
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/images/editimg/issues01050707.gif
Clinton economic policy imploded the economy right at the end of his term. We had the largest crash since 1929 (at the time). The internet bubble burst, remember? Bush inherited that crash, didn't bitch once or point fingers, reduced taxes and we grew out of it.
Obama inherits a crash cause largely by the failure of certain progressive institutions... he complains constantly, points fingers at his predecessor, and spent more money than God to fix it... and we're still crashing.
And, Jesus, quoting Barney Frank as an expert? I used to like him because he could explain very complex economic things (like derivatives) to people... but now I'm thinking that the guys in Enron could probably do that, too. Frank is being protected by his party. If he was a republican he would've been drawn and quartered by now. Barney hasn't even had to answer a question, not even about his claim in 2007 that Fannie Mae was in awesome shape and to even suggest otherwise was criminal.
Stop being partisan and just look around you! The facts are everywhere.
In 2003 or so, Bush unveiled his American Dream plan and specifically asked "Franklin" (Raines) to help implement it, but putting $448 Billion (Bush emphasized the "B") into home ownership for poor people.
Banks and Wall Street needed fresh mortgage paper to trade and to bid up.
Thank you.
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