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Sept. 15: D-Day for Health Care
Alex Brandon / AP Photo
Obama and the goody-goody Democrats desperately want to believe the Republicans are capable of a compromise on health care. They’re not.
Ignore all the posturing and pushing and posing of this hot August recess. If you’re interested in health-care reform, get out your red pen and circle this date: September 15. That’s likely to be the crucial day in determining the course of the battle.
It’s been an auspicious day in years past. On September 15, 1812, Napoleon marched on Moscow. On September 15, 1835, Charles Darwin landed at the Galapagos Islands. On September 15, 1959, Khrushchev arrived in America, and on that day two years later Hurricane Carla arrived on the Texas Gulf Coast. And just last year, September 15, 2008, Barack Obama and John McCain were essentially tied in the Gallup Poll (47 to 45 in favor of Obama), Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy, and McCain said, “The fundamentals of the economy are strong.” That one day changed the course of the rest of the presidential campaign.
Obama has invested an extraordinary amount of time and attention in Sen. Charles Grassley. I’m not feeling the bipartisan love from Grandpa Twitter.
It may be that September 15, 2009, shapes the course of the rest of the health-care fight as well. Because that is the deadline Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT) has set for his Finance Committee to come to an agreement on a bipartisan health-overhaul bill.
I’ve got to tell you I’m skeptical. Baucus, like Pres. Obama, has invested an extraordinary amount of time, attention, and credibility in Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA). Grassley hasn’t exactly met them halfway. Heck, he hasn’t even met them on his own 10-yard line. When Sarah Palin was ranting about “death panels,” Grassley should have set the record straight and described her views as fellow GOP Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-GA) did: “Nuts.” Not Grassley. He said, “You have every right to fear. … We should not have a government program that determines if you're going to pull the plug on Grandma.”
Grassley has also falsely claimed that the House version of health-care reform would deny cancer treatment to Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA), and he told Fox News that Pres. Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi were “intellectually dishonest.” I’m not feeling the bipartisan love from Grandpa Twitter.
In his thoughtful analysis, Eric Alterman argues that President Obama has never been under any illusions about Washington Republicans’ intransigence, and that his call for bipartisanship is a win-win: Either he will win enough Republicans to claim a bipartisan victory or he will have justification for going it alone. The president seemed to be pursuing that strategy today, telling radio talk-show host Michael Smerconish, “As far as negotiations with Republicans, my attitude has always been, let's see if we can get this done with some consensus. … There are a bunch of Republicans out there who have been working very constructively. One of them, Olympia Snowe in Maine, she's been dedicated on this. Chuck Grassley, Mike Enzi, others—they've been meeting in the Senate Finance Committee. I want to give them a chance to work through these processes.”
The crucial two words in the president’s statement are “let’s see.” So far, we ain’t seen much. In the four committees that have passed versions of health-care reform, the Democrats have accepted a total of 183 GOP amendments. But that generosity has yet to earn them a single Republican vote in single committee. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Bupkes.
Like the myth of the unicorn, or Sasquatch, or a humble political pundit, the myth of the reasonable, responsible, rational Republican persists. High-minded media elites and goody-goody Democrats want to believe in it; they need to believe in it, and in the face of all evidence, they persist in that belief.
On September 15, we will know. Perhaps Max Baucus’ remarkable patience and bipartisan outreach will be rewarded by Sens. Grassley and Snowe and Enzi, and we will have strong health-care reform supported by both parties—something along the lines of what Sen. Baucus outlined in a white paper on November 12, 2008. But perhaps not. Perhaps instead the bipartisan effort will yield nothing—or reforms so tepid as to be nearly useless. In that case Democrats will be forced to go it alone, possibly using the budget reconciliation process, with its lower, 50-vote hurdle, to pass large portions of reform, and then fighting a GOP filibuster on the parts that can’t be dealt with in reconciliation.
Either way, we will know on September 15.
Paul Begala is a CNN political contributor and a research professor at Georgetown University's Public Policy Institute. He was a senior strategist for the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign and served as counselor to President Clinton in the White House.
John Talks Joe
Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
The Right Dumps Carrie
Jacob Bernstein is a senior reporter at The Daily Beast. Previously, he was a features writer at WWD and W Magazine. He has also written for New York magazine, Paper, and The Huffington Post.
Forget Bipartisanship
Paul Begala is a CNN political contributor and a research professor at Georgetown University's Public Policy Institute. He was a senior strategist for the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign and served as counselor to President Clinton in the White House.
Traitor Joe
Paul Begala is a CNN political contributor and a research professor at Georgetown University's Public Policy Institute. He was a senior strategist for the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign and served as counselor to President Clinton in the White House.
The Last Sane Republican
Paul Begala is a CNN political contributor and a research professor at Georgetown University's Public Policy Institute. He was a senior strategist for the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign and served as counselor to President Clinton in the White House.
When do we get the 'fierce' in the 'urgency'?
Is the beloved community a concept that uniquely escapes Americans? We do roads and sewers as commonwealth matters.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
eeasyrider, Obama and Pelosi are not inclusive! Who are you kidding???
The Republicans have presented many amendments to the Government Run Health Care Bill, to not include rationing,and abortions, all were rejected by the Dems.... If they had no intentions of doing those things why would they vote NO? The Dems in the House have not included anyone from the other side of the isle, they have no interest in including anyone, they cant even agree between themselves. Thats the Big problem, most people in the Country DO NOT WANT Universal Health Care...At the rate Obama is going, he is going to be Best known for being the "Biggest Whiner", he cries to anyone about everyone who will listen, about the Mobs, Astro Turfers,the We Weed upers, (Those who wet the bed, according to Gibbs in todays briefing) We are not listening any more, we are tired of him always being on TV, and complaining about everything. He needs to behave like the President, not a kid in the Pricipals office tattle telling on the Big Bullies. When in reality He runs the Biggest Bully Organization going Chicago Style... We are wide awake to his style already, he cant fool any one any more.
Anyone who thinks Obama has tried to reach accross the aisle on this issue is ignorant of the facts. Tort Reform has not even been included,
Dencal26: Anyone who thinks that a single Republican will vote for any Democratic health care reform bill is equally deluded.
Anyone buying this tort reform myth is as ignorant as the birthers and death panel believers. Insurance companies have spent billions selling this tort reform lie. If you think there are a lot of frivilous medical malpractice lawsuits being filed, then prove it. Otherwise stop repeating rightard talking points.
Besides, isn't tort reform a state issue?
AmericanInsurgent: Tort reform is a state issue. Both Texas and Alaska have recently passed tort reform laws that severely limit suits.
Neither state has seen any reduction in health care costs.
The reason, Dencal, that tort reform hasn't been included (besides the fact that it can be a state issue) is the fact that the people (read insurance companies) that back tort reform want to cap pain and suffering awards at $250,000. (Yes, economic rewards are not limited, but they are limited mainly to earning power.)
That would make it about the cost of a permit of some sort to qualify to kill people with blatant malpractice, environmental rapine, and cavalier drug-prescribing.
My son is in the medical profession, and he agrees that defensive medicine is rampant because of malpractice torts. But making soulless incompetence deserving of only a slap on the wrist isn't going to deter any doctor or company from screwing over the public.
Unlike the "REAL" D-Day (God rest their souls), may there only be one casualty in this war....liberal health care ideology.
"Liberal health care ideology?" What the hell does that mean? Liberals are fuzzy headed bleeding hearts because they want to cover everyone so we can control costs (instead of letting the uninsured show up at ER's)?
When the "conservatives" talk about the uninsured, they have developed it into a code-word for welfare-suckers and illegal immigrants. And when the axe falls on them before they turn 65 and get on Medicare, they will change their tune in a hurry.
It's amazing to me how people--especially "conservatives"--are unable to understand, or care about, anyone else's situation in this country. "The Greatest Country in History!" Yeah, right.
Citizens of America: I call upon you in supplication, relinquish your injudicious ties to political camps and ideology and wake the fuck up......ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are such a hack.
Dems ALL good. Repubs (or anyone else for that matter) ALL bad.
No, Im not a GOP. I live in the REAL world. Where things are not so cut and dry.
Grow up......
Oped-
Please point out
An untruthful sentence
In Begala's description of
Republican behavior.
It's all based on a false premise that it's the Republicans who are preventing the bill from passing when in fact it's the Blue Dogs and moderate Dems who are resisting the "public option." Not to mention the CBO's reports which indicate that the plan will cost a fortune.
Forget the Republicans. They're not even a factor.
But then who will you blame?
Begala's numerological premise is about as sound as an astrology reading. "September ushers in the era of Libra. Look for bipartisanship to rise in the first two weeks."
rita, the entire premise is flawed. one can't make a bill "bipartisan" by simply asking both sides to vote for it. you have to include things both sides want. Repubs don't want gov't run health care, but do want malpractice reform. it's called compromise, and neither side seems to be capable of it. Paul Begala sees everything in Red & Blue; he's the definition of a shill.
Oped seems to be uniformly cynical... you should try to keep an open mind as well.
and indentation doesn't really lend any strength to your arguments.
This user is no longer registered.
rowland: Forget the CBO reports. France has the best health care system in the world. France spends half as much per capita as we do.
Therefore, if properly done, health care in the U.S. will be cheaper and better than the current system. We have proof. Now it is just a question of whether we are smart enough to make the necessary changes...
deegeezee: You must have skipped over the part where Democrats accepted 183 GOP amendments. That sounds like bipartisanship from Democrats.
Now what have Republicans done that you could call bipartisan?
nightdragon83 said: "...they [Republicans] have no political power and are no longer a factor in the House, Senate, or White House."
If this were true, a health care reform bill would have passed months ago. You must have forgotten about Senate filibusters and blue dog Democrats (who are cleverly-disguised Republicans).
Are you old enough to vote?
openanderson,
show me ONE POSITIVE thing for middle class Americans Republicans have done is the past four years. Heck, eight years.
One. Thing. Still thinking?
Naaah, Its easier to bash liberals than take responsibility for the hateful, lying cheating Right.
You mean 8 years of the Democrat " Bush Sux" platform? Now its falling apart because Bush is gone and you have nothing else even though Obama keeps trying to revert back to Bush Sux
liviapeacock: Easy. They lost in 2008. Gotta give them credit for that. You betcha! (Wink, wink.)
Dencal26: 8 years? Bush had 6 years of Republican majorities in both the Senate and the House. He could (and did) pass any legislation he wanted.
I think liviapeacock is still waiting for an intelligent response. Back to you...
Bush did drive the deficit up 10 fold, and with caring for the lifelong needs of wounded veterans in the needless Iraq war,we will pay for the next century.
Just cancel the Bush tax thefts,the ones he called cuts, that were needed to pay for his foray into Iraq, and add a progressive 3% on every 10 million net income per person, 1% with familes of 4 or more, and the hell with the Repugs.
Obama needs to get the Blue Dog traitors in line, or just cut them off politically and financially from now on. Let the chips fall where they may, and at least stand up to the fascist.
BullMoose: Actually, Bush only succeeded in doubling our national debt, from $5 trillion to $10 trillion.
The jury is still out on how much his two wars will cost us in the long run, but I'm betting on at least an additional $3 trillion.
No. Repuglicons are all Brownshirt Fascist.
Just as Mussolini was as dumbfounded how easily his opposition collapsed, the Democrats have no backbone.
Let the right wing scum get near me in Las Vegas at a Town Hall meeting, with their guns and threats, and i guarantee you i will be right back in their face, laughing at them, and screaming just as loud so they will not need their hearing aids.
They have gotten away with their bull because no one has stood up to the Nazi scum, and parasites like them take the path of least resistance.
How dare you accuse Repubs of being on the path of least resistance. I'm not waiting around for people to pay my way. Let's keep "Nazi" out of adult dialogue you moron. I don't have health insurance, so guess what I'm going to do? Work harder to make more money so I can afford it. That's how us "fascists" do it.You are the laughing stock of this debate Moose. When you get a moment grab a dictionary and look up the word "fascist" you idiot.
BullMoose: Please - this type of behavior is unlikely to be productive, and it gives Republicans a chance to bash us back. And Republicans love to bash us...
mountainhick Being called any perjorative by an inbred like you is a badge of honor.
As far as looking up the word fascist, i just look at a picture of the two that held the title for 8 long years, and drove this country to hell.
Apparently picking up a dictionary was too much work for you.
mountainhick If you want to start something i am game anytime inbred. Just because you are with the Nazi scum, who like seeing poor people die so Goldman Sachs can make more money, makes you no better than Herr Hitler, whom i am sure you have posters of all over you walls. Sorry logs.
Do you read? Or do you just see Begalla's name and gripe? He didn't say all Reps were bad....he specifically mentioned a few that are part of the discussion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------
Aug/21/2009
From:
octavio
To:
everybody
For years and years the republicans " public
servants " had been no-nos;from the beginning they were
against allowing blacks to vote,they were against allowing wo-
men to vote,they were against the social security system.
The majority of these republicans had always been
like whores.Large corporations like many of the USA health
insurance companies had these republicans in their pocket
for years -- here take this one million dollars "campaign con-
tribution" and make sure you do what we tell you to do!.
So far these republicans can only show to us that
they are very good in going to airport restrooms ( bathrooms )
and asking for blow jobs from male travellers,Or being caught
having sex with prostitutes ( using diapers in their sexual
games ).
Other republicans like tricky dicky Richard Nixon
who should had been impeached or that movie actor Ronald
Regan trading weapons ( arms ) for hostages and deceiving
the USA public etc,etc.
Other recent republicans that should
had been impeached are the Bush/Cheney team.George W.
Bush stole the presidency from Algore ( a democrat ).Bush/
Cheney were the ones that wanted to show the world that
that the USA is number one in torturing people.
The people of the USA need to stop voting
for the republicans.
Thank you for reading;
chao,
octavio
END!
------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Do a little research, and you'll learn who was in office when slavery was abolished, when blacks were allowed to vote, and who takes more money in political contributions. Then get back to me.
I don't know if you'll see this but, although Lincoln was in office, the Republican party was against abolishing slavery. Remember the civil war? Blacks were allowed to vote in the Constitution. Not the same party systems as now. I will support a cause I believe in hence, your political contribution argument is weak. Republicans (modern) have done nothing for civil rights. Nothing.
we will also know on or about sept.15 how many seats democrats will lose in 2010. shortly thereafter you can crank up that old worn out hillary clunker for 2012. paul, paul, paul... how's the radio?[hint: steve martin/snl.]
Never has a handle a blogger goes by fit so perfectly as uranus.
Even Repugs can not stand Ron Paul and his crazy cultist followers.
Obama is a pragmatic, moderate, rational reformer, who has never been able to deal very well with the irrational side of politics--racism, religious fanaticism, hysteria, paranoia, extremism. None of that is in his make up, but historians simply assume these are all very real. Recent events only confirm that.
Now to me, the best thing to do is just kick the Republicans in the nuts every time they start spewing their garbage and move on. Just say they are a bunch of liars and crooks who haven't had a new idea since 1892 and never will. Take advantage of this reform cycle and pass as much as possible. If the historical pattern holds good, the Dems should have at least a decade here before the pendulum swings back to conservatism.
pull the kick, nuts, liars and crooks out of this and you sound very thoughtful. i agree, pass as much as possible before the pendulum swings. i would add the timing of the swing is variable. overplay a hand and the pendulum swings sooner.
But underplay your hand, and it will also swing sooner. Nobody wants to vote for an invertebrate.
Forget the nuts, Repugs only feel pain when kicked in the wallet.
Let the kicking begin.
Doing nothing and waffling,conceeding the debate, and behaving in a politically inept fashion will get us nothing. Obama has to step up in every way. Begala is right on. Doing nothing loses, and doing something too late loses too. Over reaching? Democrats haven't been doing that for many,many years. Where's Change?
I like the "kick in the nuts" approach. mcmchugh99, I've read your posts before and they are always spot on. It's a nice change from the grunt and gurgle of the underbelly of America.
Obama is anything but Moderate. He has always been a radical extreme leftist which covers his positions and his personal relationships. Now the REAL moderates and independents are realizing what he really is.
Dencal26: Anybody who considers Obama "a radical extreme leftist" is way too far to the right to tolerate today's center-left America. I suggest you move to North Korea, where any form of liberalism is immediately killed off (and I mean that literally).
September will be very different from August.
The public has only heard nonsense on Healthcare from Republicans. Republicans spoke nonsense on Justice Sotomayor too.
The public voted a large Democrat majority into both houses of Congress. There is a reason for this.
Republicans have become the party of NO. So what.
"New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option"
http://tinyurl.com/nf4erx
I agree.
August is
Take out the trash month.
The funny thing is no one is going to remember any of this once the special prosecutor is announced.
The Republicans keep betting on stupidity and hoping Obama fails when he holds there nuts in there hand.
What nonsense was spoken about Sotomayor? Her racist comments were obvious. Her decision on the White Firefighters was disturbing.
Dencal26: This comment reveals more about your racist attitude than anything about Sotomayor.
Your mention of "White Firefighters" shows that you care nothing for the black and Hispanic firefighters who were discriminated against in that case. (Regardless, she was just following existing case law. If she hadn't, you would be blasting her as an "activist judge".)
BAGALLA THE FOREHEAD SHOULD JUST DIE THE MOST PARTISAN DUMBOCRAP EVER WITH ALL THE WAKCO CRAZYS AROUND I AM SUPRISED HE IS STILL WITH US
Hey Banjo-
Where you been?
He was on a hedonistic retreat, aka family reunion.
KEVROY1: Much better for the rest of us if your "Caps Lock" key dies instead.
I think there is little doubt that the GOP is pursuing a plan that ANYTHING Obama is bad. They feel their political furture depends on preventing any success, reguardless of the benefits that a success would bring to the future of the vast majority of Americans. The Dems need to come together and act on some form of these plans, and I think they will. And for the future of the GOP, I think most Americans understand what they are doing.
I think we will be pleasantly surprised. Obama is playing the right and they will sink when health care is passed. By Dems alone of course.
I wish I had your faith. I don't see much evidence of any of that. Public opinion seems to be swinging against the Dems.
Only on Fox does it seem that public opinion is moving away from Dems.
junebug08: Of course. Nobody but Fox News mentions Rasmussen polls these days.
Every poll is showing a shift away from Democrats: ABC News/WASH POST/GALLUP/MARIST/MASON DIXON/CBS etc. North Carolina, Ohio, Indinana, Missouri. The mistake was labeling elderly Democrats attending Town Hall meetings as un-American...this does not win you many friends. We could hope the President would settle on one bill he supports...otherwise all his protestations to the contrary about misinformation lack credibility.
There is no consensus on the Democratic side...lefties demand public option, blue dogs say no way. Co-ops might be the answer but, for you lefties out there, they are a poor substitute for the public option, aka the first step toward single payer.
Republicans are against co-ops also. Republicans are against everything proposed so far. Republicans have not offered any option for covering the uninsured. Republicans have openly stated that their plan is to block health care reform in order to destroy Obama's presidency. Republicans are the party of NO and proud of it.
DCNurse -
You state that "Republicans have openly stated that their plan is to block health care reform in order to destroy Obama's presidency."
Really now, you might be able to find a rogue or two who has stated something roughly equivalent but it is wrong to lump all Rs together as one; just as there are different facets of your beloved Democratic party, there are varied opinions on the Republican side. It's part of the process - if the Dems could get themselves together then they could just pass a bill. Obviously, it's not just the Rs who are opposing it.
dcbooknurse - the republicans are for keeping things just as they are right now so the insurance companies can keep feeding them money and they can both continue raping the American people for the almight dollar that republicans worship.
jbuzz1:
Republican strategist William Kristol said, "With Obamacare on the ropes, there will be a temptation for opponents to let up on their criticism, and to try to appear constructive, or at least responsible...Resist the temptation. This is no time to pull punches. Go for the kill."
Senator Jim DeMint (R-South Carolina) said,"If you're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him."
Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said on August 17th that even if he got a health care reform bill that had everything he wanted in it, he still wouldn't vote for it unless a bunch of other Republicans would also vote for it. (As if that would ever happen!)
Are these guys all rogues? If you want more examples, I'm sure I can find some made by the true leaders of the Republican party - Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.
JBUZZ is correct...there is NO consensus. Republican's cannot stop health care refrom even if they tried to. The Democrats have ample majorities to pass anything. They just don't have their act together and then made the mistake of labeling 'voters' as un-American. If health care reform does not pass Democrrats have only themselves to blame.
I certainly hope Dems pass Socialized Healthcare. Cap and Trade and Amnesty for Illegals. Then they will be out of power for 50 yrs. They are clueless.
Very true and well said. Typical of political 'leaders' financially comfortable and unafraid of re-election. They act like royalty and couldn't care less about everyday Americans.
Here's the way I see it. Pardon me if it sounds a bit to cynical.
Democrats would really not do anything to hurt some of their best campaign contributors, namely drug and insurance companies or energy or defense or telecommunications.
The republicans put on their usual tinhorn loudmouth opposition.
Them dems buckle. The repubs pursue.
The dems buckle again.
All the time this has given them cover for voting contrary to what the people want and saying "Well, the opposition was just too strong" or "We didn't have the 60 votes. or "We couldn't get bipartisanship"
Sound familiar.
Nah.
The Dems will pull up
Just in time-
They've got too much riding on it.
One thing Begala, Obama, Reid, Pelosi & rest of have Dems have learned from Repubs like Cheney: constantly blame your own failures on the opposition. Republicans don't have enuf votes to matter right now...they're irrelevant. Conservative democrats are fighting health care.
Since Reagan introduced this illiterate, venomous and violent segment to the Republican Party in the 80's it's been in deep trouble. Because a lot of us got wise early in the game and left in the 80's. They hated Clinton with such a passion there abnormal hatred defied all logic. It consumed their whole reality trying to bring him down and get him out of office. Anyone with a brain knew it would be this way when Obama was elected. Because that's what Republican's do best...they hate!!!! They weren't going to like anyone but a rabid fear mongering nut like themselves. So Obama might as well give up on uniting the country and creating a perfect union of ideas. It's never going to happen. And do what he wants without this group of obstructionists. Concentrate on getting the Democratic Party together and passing what he can while he can.
Good post with a deft analysis of recent political history. The republicans are about No so the Dems have to grow some stones and do it without them.
Hate? I guess you missed the 8 years of Code Pink Cindy Sheehan and Howard Dean Rants. Democrats won with hate and will be kicked out by Hate.
Dencal-
You forgot
To mention ACORN.
And since you've taken it
Upon yourself to critique my
Style of posting-
Let me turn the tables
By adding that you seem to have
Missed a few opportunities to add strength
To your own post
By railing about Pelosi
Barney Franks teleprompters
Birth certificates
And the main stream media.
Oh you mean the Newt Gingrich style of hate, or the Karl Rovian style?
Since the Oral Majority started their poop does not stink garbage in the early 80's, and castigated anyone who did not carry their torch, hate has been the operative code for all things Repuglicon.
The current 'hate' mongers of MSNBC and other networks at varying times in recent history (CBS, NBC, ABC,) have been in place since the Vietnam War. The media bias created an angry response on the center and right who have felt the media props up candidates and positions long sent to the trash heap by voters. We have wasted so much national energy on re-fighting issues that should have been long ago determined. Rightwing radio, media and now internet sites are a direct response to liberal media bias. So, liberals and the media have only themselves to blame for the strident anger today on both sides.
Illiterate? Let me break the news to you. The African American Community is now the Dem Party Base. A Loyal Base of 13% of America voting 98% Automatic Dem. And coincidently has the lowest test scores of any ethnic group in America. Check Collegeboards.com SAT scores by Ethnic Group. Check other test scores.
Dencal26: Well, what else can we liberals do? All of the red-neck southern white racists have abandoned us to make up the Republican base.
tumbleweed: I believe this mess started with Nixon's "Southern Strategy". But Reagan certainly followed up on it with enthusiasm.
The point is not "when" but "what." A so-called heathcare reform bill without a serious government option will be seen as a failure by a large and increasingly vocal group of Democrats and Obama supporters. This is true whether annoyed White House advisors like it or not. A massive government subsidy of insurers, the delivery of 40 million new customers to these insurers who will be mandated by the government to sign up, and a few lite regulations against ugly insurance practices that will have no teeth and will be repaled when the next Republican assumes the White House will not be accepted as anything but failure by a growing number of Democrats. A bill of that description may seem wonderful to inside-the-Beltway careerists and operators, but not to real people. And the excuse that, well we tried for a public option but it was just to heavy a lift, will not go down well, not when it is clear that from the start, president Obama and his advisers never really tried very hard to achieve it. I am afraid this legislation really wll be Waterloo for Obama and Congressional Democrats, just not in the way Jim Demint thought.
Not one Republican voted for Social Security in the 30s. Not one Republican voted for Medicare under Lyndon Johnson. Not one Republican voted for health care reform under Clinton. And not one Republican has advanced one decent thought on how we tackle this very important issue.
So we are left with basically nothing. If it all collapses, I say we should take health care away for every Congressperson in Washington. They don't deserve the assistance of this government.
I agree with you 100% Congress's benefits which are paid for by us should be stripped away, too bad we can't do that, let them pull themselves up by their bootstraps, isn't that their philosophy?
Davidpaul,
I've got a great investment for you. You pay me 13% of your income for life and I'll deliver you a retirement income that averages about a 0% real rate of return. Of course if you kick the bucket before retirement age then you and your estate get nothing. Of course none of this is guaranteed and if the money simply isn't there by the time you retire that impressive 0% return might not even be doable.-- it just depends on how much money I can get from others to invest in my scheme to then pay you off. I might also have to arbitarily decide to raise the retirement age at which you can start to collect this money.What do ya think? Do we have a deal?
Grimmace enough let the market decide crap. Just think what great shape the country would be in had Bush suceeded with privatizing SS. We would be completely screwed instead of partially.
Actually, yes. That 13% covers Social Security and Medicare. So that no matter how many times the stock market crashes, you still cover my medical and give me a monthly living allowance. I have put that amount into investments all those years and I have little to show for it. Every time I have a little pile of money saved and a little gain or interest the private market figures out a way to swoop it all up and I end up with less than my initial investment. Talk about 0% return...I wish I still had the principal.
All right whatshop, how do we get started? Give me your email and I'll tell you where you can start to send your first "contributions". You have made a very wise decision!
Piachu, yeah it would be a real mistake to actually let people have control of their own money -- God knows our politiicans know how to save and invest our money much better than I and care more about me than I do.
Grassley, I hate to burst any Republican=free-market prosperity mythology bubbles (not really); however:
I recently completed an independent analyis of 61 years worth of month-to-month Bureau of Labor employment data (1948-2009). Over 12 administrations (Truman-Obama/ 6(R) 49yrs - 6(D) 21yrs7mos), an established and predictable pattern of nationwide employment decline returns whenever Republicans 'govern' (e.g. George W. Bush took office, unemployment 4.0%; when he left 8.1%, 102.5% employment decrease. While Reagan was the only Republican to post gains, we still experienced 19 straight months over 9 % unemployment during his tenure.)* The record establishes that business, labor, and society always suffers under Republican mismanagement and Americans historically elect Democrats to solve social and economic problems created by Republicans. For Republicans to repeat their mantra of unfettered capitalism and yet ignore the fact that their poor governance accounts for economic decline displays convoluted and bizarre reasoning. When Democrats govern, people thrive (not just the "haves/have mores") and business benefits:
Truman(D) 1945-1949 3.4-2.6 1.2
Eisenhower(R)1953-1961 2.9-6.6 -3.7
Kennedy(D) 1961-1163 6.6-5.7 0.9
LBJ(D) 1963-1969 5.5-3.4 2.1
Nixon (R) 1969-0874 3.4-5.5 -2.1
Ford(R) 1974-1977 5.5-7.8 -2.3
Carter(D) 1977-1981 7.8-7.5 0.3
Reagan(R)* 1981-1989 7.5-5.4 2.1
Bush I(R) 1989-1992 5.4-7.3 -1.9
Clinton(D) 1993-2001 7.3-3.9 3.4
Bush II(R) 2001-2009 4.0-7.6 -3.6
Obama(D) 2009-2016;-) too early to tell but history is definitely on our side! This should be the era that stockholders finally mount a rebellion - we're with you!
Phala
Whys=Wise
Oops I apologize Grimmace - Got Grassley on the brain-what a frakkin' drain!
Grimmace: So many lies in so short a post. Where do I begin?
Well, let's start with Social Security as an investment. If the typical retiree had invested their SS payments in the market, they would typically exhaust all of these investments within 3 or 4 years after retirement. Then they are about 70 years old, with another 5 to 10 years of life expectancy, and broke. This does not sound like an ideal situation to me.
And this was before the Great Recession. I'm sure these investors would have loved losing half of their money last year.
As for my estate get nothing, why should it? This is insurance for me, the retiree (I am retired, by the way, so I can speak from experience). SS is intended to keep me from poverty during the remainder of my life, not to make my kids wealthy. With auto insurance, if you don't have any accidents, you don't get any money back (and neither do your kids).
As for suggesting that money might not be there when you retire, I believe that our government would default on Chinese-owned Treasury securities before it would risk the wrath of senior citizen voters.
Retirement age being raised? Sure. It has happened in the past and will doubtless happen again as life expectancy increases. But how is this more risky than possible stock market crashes (say the 60% loss in 2008, for example)?
Grimmace said: "God knows our politiicans know how to save and invest our money much better than I and care more about me than I do."
I'm glad that you are finally starting to see the light, Grimmace!
Why we hate Liberals? Because you are either too lazy to research or intentionally post Disinformation
.
The Ways & Means Committee Report on the Social Security Act was introduced in the House on April 4, 1935 and debate began on April 11th. After several days of debate, the bill was passed in the House on April 19, 1935 by a vote of 372 yeas, 33 nays, 2 present, and 25 not voting. (This vote took place immediately followed a vote to recommit the bill to the Committee, which failed on a vote of Yea: 149; Nay: 253; Present: 1; and Not Voting: 29.)
81 Republicans voted YES 15 Voted NO . Same number of NAYs as the Dems. Please educate yourself .
Dencal26: No, no. You've got it all backwards. It is the Republicans who lie. Take for example Betsy McCaughey, whose 1994 health care critique made her a star of the conservative movement (and ultimately, New York's lieutenant governor).
Betsy was the one who recently came up with the brilliant idea of "Death Panels", which was so quickly taken up by Republican stalwarts including Sarah Palin, and Charles Grassley. It was also a hit with Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. This lie greatly advanced the Republican's program of killing any health care reform.
You are right about me being too lazy to research, though. If it had taken me more than 30 seconds to Google the information above, I would probably have given up in disgust.
By the way, thanks for this information about the voting. I thought I remembered Republicans being pretty moderate back in those days.
Let's get your facts straight: Not one single Democrat voted for health care reform under Clinton either. The bill Mrs. Clinton hatched in secret was so odious...the Democrat majority never brought it up for a vote.
Republicans have offered many proposals and, of course, if you knew anything about history and not the hate preached on MSNBC, you would know one of the greatest health reformers was none other than President Richard Nixon.
The gamesmanship is played on both sides of the aisle. Pelosi has stated that the House won't release any bill that doesn't include a public option. So the Republicans (and some Dems) oppose this tact. Isn't this just how the system works? The left and the right are dug in - it will be up to the moderates to figure out a resolution.
Bagala baby, your Pelosi is perfect! What an idiotic BS you are penning. It is a shame you make millions dividing this country just like Rush. I can not decide if you or Carville are better than Rush in fooling main stream citizens.
What did Begala say that wasn't true? Rush and Sarah are liars but I didn't see anything Begala said that wasn't already pretty obvious.
Sarah Palin a liar? Nothing in her political career (an elected career longer than Lincoln & Obama combined I might add) did not find ethical lapses. The left-wing media has tried to damage her reputation...but truly they have just made her stronger. Enough thoughtful Americans know an authentic person when they see one and she is it.
Amazing how the most powerful man on earth, the current President of the United States, has spent three weeks bashing her...a woman who outfoxed President Obama with only a laptop and a FACEBOOK account...no press conferences, no interviews, no press releases...simply by the power of her popularity with millions of Americans.
KemCho: I'm sure Begala makes much less money than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, or Glenn Beck. Dividers, you say?
I have to agree with PB. The republicans are all about shilling for corporations and screwing the american people. The unfortunate thing is there are so many of us who are not sharp enough to divine that the repubs are not representing their interests, but have distracted them with lies, fear, and outright horseshit. It is unfortunate that our republic would operate best with an informed electorate, yet so many of our people make up their minds before any facts are actually known. Their opinions are handed to them because they want to believe in the boogie man. It's easier to blame the brown man in the white house then to actually make the effort to figure out things for yourself. It is unfortunate that the dirt bag repubs exploit thing weakness in the American intellect so deftly. I have to give them credit for that, although that is something akin to giving credit to Charles Manson for killing so many at once.
Speaking of being distracted by lies: According to the Federal Election Commission and the WASHINGTON POST -- since 1978...a full 31 years...it is Democrats who have raised most of their funds from corporations. It's one of the great myths of American politics sustained by the ignorant on the left.
GOP funds derive primarily from small donors and small business owners...the kind of people...along with elderly Democrats who have come out in force at these Town Hall meetings.
When pigs fly
Grassley is running for reelection in 2010
The Republican party in Iowa notwsithstanding the general leanings of the state has always been and has increasingly become as they became smaller a hard right group
They voted for Pat Robertson in 1988
He is concerned about a primary challenge he could loose to a wingnut
This is similar to what Spector faced but Grassley doesnt have the option of becoming a Democrat
This was obvious day one
Self preservation is the politicians first concern
I think you are on to something there. I live in Iowa and Grassley has not always been as much of a horses ass as he has been lately. However, I disagree that Iowa is a right leaning state. We were the first to go Obama, and most Iowans are not died in the wool right wingnuts. Most are moderates, although in the rural parts of the state they tend to lean to the right. How else can you explain the continued re-election of Steven King - a true political horror story and an embarrassment to our state.
Picachu: It's true that your state was the first to go Obama, but that was just in the primary, when only Democrats could vote. By itself, this says nothing about the overall makeup of Iowa voters, although I don't doubt you characterization of them. (By the way, I was born in Iowa, though I only lived there 2 years.)
Maybe this will explain why government health care plans work in this country. Like, Medicare, Medicaid and the Veteran's System.
In todays Houston, Chronicle, it was r eported that in 2006, William "Dollar Bill) Mc Guire, CEO of parent company United Health Group walked off with a $1.1 billion dollar golden parachute (on top of $500 million he had already raked in) - though he had to return some of it in an options backdating scandal. Just think about that amount of money and the health bills it would cover for sick people.
The Military does not have this type of stuff to contend with and there is much more money going to the patient.
Takes a hell of a lot of paid premiums to justify that kind of greed.
Now you know why they want so badly to keep the status quo.
Companies like United Health are bleeding American citizens dry.
And Americans are too stupid to even realize what is happening to them. And even if they do
realize this... they think as long as it does not affect them it really is not important.
Just wait, when your kid gets brain cancer and the insurance company immediately tells you they are canceling your health care plan.... you will get the shock of your life. And believe me, getting an eighty thousand dollar bill that you find out your insurance company will not cover.... you will be shocked.
I have a friend whose health care plan was canceled because when she filled out her application she neglected to say that she had a gall bladder attack when she was ten years younger.
The insurance company took her premiums for fifteen years before they brought that subject up.
And getting back to United Health Care.. this is the same company that eighteen months ago paid a
$400 million dollar fine in New York State for consumer fraud charges.
Check it out...be informed.... do not jeopardize your and your families future by being uninformed.
For the last four months, Republicans so adamently opposed to any reform in our broken health care system have been heard over and over again spewing statistics from a company
c alled The Levin Group.
The statistics are falsehoods and inuendos about the health care business.Out and out lies. Skewed accounting....
It has taken months of research hunting to finally find out that the Levin Group is owned and funded by United Health Care Group.
If you are interested in some outstanding research being done on the health care industry in this country, check out the Rachel Maddow Show on cable. The have the most researched news on television. Every evening at 8 PM Central. Monday thru Friday.-
Have paper and pencil ready because they will give internet sites to follow up their investigations.
You will be appalled to see what is happening in the health care industry and why the companies are spending a hundred million dollars fighting any changes.
I have had a Living Will for more than twenty years.
Most of my family, friends and neighbors have a Living Will.
Many people I know went immediately to execute a Living Will after the Teri Shrivo case hit the newspapers.
That poor woman lived like a vegetable for fifteen years. It took eighteen judges, twenty million dollars and the Supreme Court to get her out of her terrible predicament and millions of dollars in wasted expenses.
I wonder what about all this is what the Morons do not understand?
A Living Will is one of the finest things you can do for your family and loved ones. It details what you want done if you should get into a terrible situation where you will live , completely incoherent, on tubes. Where you have to be turned every four hours or your body will be covered with bed sores. Give yourself a break... think about it. Inform yourself. And your Family need to understand just what a Living Will is.
No one is trying to kill you or have you killed. However, if you are brain dead with no chance of recovery... you can choose to die with dignity.
The Living Will was first proposed and instigated by a Republican Congressman from George at least twenty-five years ago. Four months ago
both Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich were hawking Legal Zoom. com on their radio shows.
And what were these two nutcases hawking forf Legal Zoom. com. Why, of course...forms for Living Wills... you could execute yourself on the cheap.
Nice... No? Always the Republican henchmen with their great morals....
Most of the States so vehemently opposed to Obama and anything he wants to do are in the South.
The South is the most ignorant part of this country .. They are still fighting the Civil war.
They soil their collective pants every day when they realize once again that there is a black President of this country. United Health Care has given their employees time off so they can drive around on buses to oppose the proposed changes to out healh plan system in this country. These people gro from town to town screaming obscenities about the President and his effort to fix our broken health care system. How do I know this? I live in Texas. Texas is the center for the Lunatic Fringe.
Because these employees, many of them who don't even know wht is expected of them do not do well with the Press...
Max Pappas from Freedomworks shows up to speak on their behalf.
Freedomworks isn't some "organic grassroots" outfit. It's run by former Republican House Majority Leader Dick Armey -- corporate lobbyist, global warming denier and lady's man.
The President and CEO of Freedomworks is Matt Kibbee, who was trained by Lee Atwater. Kibbe was behind the attempt to get Ralph Nader put on the ballot in Oregon in 2004, prompting a complaint to the FEC of illegal collusion with the GOP.
Steve Forbes is on the FreedomWorks board. As Paul Krugman noted, their money comes from the Koch, Scaife, Bradley, Olin nexus, as well as other reliable funders of right wing infrastructure including Exxon Mobil.
Freedomworks has a long history of skunk works. In 2004, a woman who identified herself as a "single mother" in Iowa, Sandra Jacques, appeared at a George Bush town hall and gushed about his plan to privatize Social Security. She left out the part about being an employee of Freedomworks, who were lobbying on the issue at the time.
David Koch is also Chairman of the other major outfit heavily involved in these "organic" uprisings, Americans for Prosperity, whose members lynched Democrat Frank Kratovil in effigy. Koch is the 19th richest man in the world. They recently renamed the New York State Theater in Lincoln Center the David H. Koch Theater.
These aren't just some organizations that these guys gave money to. They run them.
This extreme violent behavior is being organized and funded by those at the highest levels of the conservative infrastructure. It's not some sideline, some quirky hobby. It is the function and purpose of these organizations to threaten and intimidate elected officials in order to subvert the will of the electorate to a corporate agenda.
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/04/how-come-cbs-journalists- cant-recognize-paid-lobbyists-when-they-see-them/
Please call your representatives and tell them these thugs do not represent you.
Gee, this rant looks really familiar. Didn't you post this exact same comment to another story a few weeks ago?
If you hate the south, why stay?
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
"Not Grassley. He said, "You have every right to fear. ... We should not have a government program that determines if you're going to pull the plug on Grandma."
The only thing I fear is people like Grassley and the ignorant masses who believe everything Sarah says. Its truly frightening!
Grassley has become a real shithead. He wasn't always that way.
MYTH: Illegal Immigrants May Be Covered
Rep. King (R-Iowa) issued a press release with this headline: "CBO:
5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare."
FactCheck.org: "Not True"
H.R. 3200 includes a provision that specifically says that there will
be no federal funds spent to cover illegal immigrants:
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 - NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for
affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully
present in the United States.
[Misleading GOP Health Care Claims, FactCheck.Org, July 23, 2009]
MYTH: There is a Republican Plan
Minority Whip Cantor: "The Republican plan" provides "access to
affordable basic coverage."
FactCheck.org: "Republicans have yet to coalesce around a single
plan."
Even though the House Republicans' "Health Care Solutions Group"
guaranteed a counter proposal, they have refused to release a plan to
the public.
[Misleading GOP Health Care Claims, FactCheck.Org, July 23, 2009]
MYTH: Widespread Tax Increases
Newt Gingrich: Reform plan would increase taxes on "virtually
everyone."
FactCheck.org: Less than 1.4% Would Face Higher Taxes
According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, less than 1.4 percent
of all U.S. households would face higher taxes under the proposal. The
surtax for those upper-income folks would start at 1 percent and go up
to 5.4 percent with top incomes over $1 million.
MYTH: 120 Million Americans Will Be Deprived of Health Care
Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.): Democrats' plan "will deprive roughly 120
million Americans of their current health care coverage."
PolitiFact.com: "False"
The 120 million number Pence cites comes from the Lewin Group, a
wholly owned subsidiary of insurance giant UnitedHealthCare, which
based its numbers on several public-option scenarios that are
dramatically different than what Democrats have proposed. The
Congressional Budget Office estimates that about 11 million-NOT 120
million-Americans will end up voluntarily enrolling in the public
option, and none of them will be "deprived" of coverage.
[Politifact.com]
King is a true right wing POS.
A number of illegal immigrants are already covered. What are you talking about?
Oops, I thought I cancelled the above comment, I clicked on cancel, it wasn't finished and I changed my mind, sorry.
Barney Frank called out a guy at a town hall meeting who declared that national health care is unconstitutional. Barney said, oh do you think Medicare is unconstitutional? The guy flat out refused to answer but after Barney kept after him, he finally said he wasn't qualified to judge whether or not Medicare is unconstitutional. The lack of logic exhibited was apparent for all to see. This type of illogical thinking is rampant in America and will spell our doom long before any other problems do us in.
revcat,
Please give me the specific verbiage from the Constitution that authrorizes the federal government's involvement in healthcare -- whether Medicare or any other similar plan. I've looked real hard and I can't find it anywhere -- but again if you can give the specific passage that authroizes it then I'll change my mind and support the Messiah on this one.
About 90% (made up number) of what the Government does is unconstitutional, but they so bastardized the Commerce Clause, that its a bit too late for that argument.
It's in the Preamble. "Provide for the general welfare,". You may think Medicare, etc., is an overreaching application of this provision, but it is legally reasonable law for an elected body to pass. You might also justify it under Article I Section VIII the right to regulate commerce since insurance companies are based everywhere, drugs are imported from everywhere, and people often travel across state lines for health care. I think it would take a much more strained reading of A 1 S 8 though. Just looking at the Preamble is much more straight forward. In your defense though, the Preamble goes on to state "to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..."; instituting such expensive programs may be seen as a threat these Blessings, especially in the context of a nation already so mired in debt. You can debate whether certain policies will threaten or forward these goals, but again, it is legally defensible, for a gov't given the authority to enact laws, to pass Health Care bills if they decide that they will forward these goals.
akryan, if you want to make the point that "provide for the general welfare" authorizes government involvement in healthcare then you're basically just saying that there are no rules or limitations. Why bother with anything more than having a Constitution with only 1 sentence... "Provide for the General Welfare". Everything is essentially fair game. The founders could have gone home and saved themselves a lot of hard work and effort.
The Constitution is a document that intentionally limited the federal government to only those things that were explicitly laid out in this document -- everything else is reserved to the states and the people.
Tell me, Grimmace, were you as concerned about the integrity of the Constitution when Cheney/Bush & Co. were pissing all over it? As I recall, anyone who objected to their interpretation of the document was branded a traitor, unAmerican, a pal of terrorists. Slimy hypocrites...
Grimmace: Please give me the specific verbiage from the Constitution that authorizes the federal government to torture detainees in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and in Afghanistan.
I haven't looked at all, because I don't think it is there. Good hunting!
It's not there because the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment.
Thank you.
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