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Peter Beinart

Biden: The New Rumsfeld

BS Top - Beinart Rumsfeld AP Photo (2) With the administration split on Afghanistan, liberals like Joe Biden support a drawdown and shun nation building. Peter Beinart asks: Wasn’t that the Rumsfeld view in 2002?

In January 2002, soon after America overthrew the Taliban, then-Senator Joseph Biden traveled to a ramshackle school in Kabul. As his tour was ending, a girl stood up. “You cannot leave. They will not deny me learning to read. I will read and I will be a doctor like my mother. I will. America must stay.”

The conversation haunted Biden. When he returned to Washington, he pushed for more money for Afghan schools, and more U.S. troops. But he got nowhere. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld loathed nation building, which he believed bred dependence. Afghanistan’s new president, Hamid Karzai, begged Rumsfeld to let U.S. troops participate in the tiny international peacekeeping force established after the Taliban’s fall, so Afghanistan’s new government could expand its writ beyond Kabul. “You think I am president, but I am not,” Karzai pleaded, noting that local warlords were refusing to hand over customs revenue. But Karzai failed, too. Opposition to nation building, after all, was a core tenet of post-cold war Republican foreign policy. “Most of the advisors around the president,” State Department official Richard Haass would later note, “held out little hope that Afghanistan could ever be made into something much better.” Biden was appalled. Bush officials, he told reporters, “have already given up the ghost in Afghanistan. They’ve basically turned it over to the warlords.”

Biden and other anti-surge liberals speak as if America is losing in Afghanistan because Afghanistan is irredeemable, when the real reason America is losing is because—as Biden himself once screamed—America hasn’t really tried.

History plays nasty jokes. In 2002, to be a foreign policy liberal was to believe in nation building: to believe that when the United States bombed another country, America had a responsibility to help rebuild it afterwards. Today, however, it is mostly conservatives—buoyed by the apparent success of the surge in Iraq--who demand that America commit to nation building in Afghanistan. And it is mostly liberals like Biden who hold “out little hope that Afghanistan could ever be made into something much better.” In our ADD-political culture, barely anyone seems to notice that the two parties have switched sides.

Biden has every right to change his mind, and it’s understandable that he’s more pessimistic about Afghanistan today than he was in 2002. But I think he’s forgotten what he once knew. He and other anti-surge liberals speak as if America is losing in Afghanistan because Afghanistan is irredeemable, when the real reason America is losing is because—as Biden himself once screamed—America hasn’t really tried.

Tina Brown: Let’s Not Abandon Afghan Women

Jon Krakauer: McChrystal’s Credibility Problem
When anti-surge liberals talk about Afghanistan today, they often lapse into clichés about how the prickly Afghans hate all foreign occupiers. But for many years after the Taliban was overthrown, Afghans adored their foreign occupiers. As recently as 2006, two-thirds of Afghans told pollsters that they approved of Western forces in their country and almost 90 percent approved of the Taliban’s overthrow. Those numbers have dropped in recent years, such that now less than 40 percent of Afghans support NATO’s presence. But significantly, the Afghans who like NATO best are the ones who feel that NATO’s presence in their area is strongest, which suggests that what Afghans resent is not Western occupation, but ineffective Western occupation. To listen to the press, you’d think that Afghans prefer the Taliban to the United States. In fact, even as pro-American sentiment has faded, the U.S. remains far more popular than the Taliban, whose approval ratings don’t exceed single digits.

In addition to pessimism about Afghanistan itself, the Biden crowd expresses deep pessimism about Hamid Karzai, whom they dismiss as a pawn of corrupt, illiberal warlords. But as Biden himself once noted, Karzai embraced the warlords because he had neither an Afghan army nor an international military force with the muscle to extend his reach into the countryside. Until 2007, in fact, the US made barely any effort to train the Afghan army. As late as 2008, America had one soldier in Afghanistan for every six it had in Iraq. And even today, the Afghan military remains only one-fourth as large as Iraq’s, even though Afghanistan is a larger, more populous country.

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October 19, 2009 | 7:02am
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overdue

America overthrew the Taliban in 2002?
Someone should tell Fox news. Oh, and the President.

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11:14 am, Oct 19, 2009

This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.

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11:19 am, Oct 19, 2009

artsyfartsy

The surge didn't work in Iraq - that's a lie pushed by the incompetent Bush administration to make them look better. What actually worked was arming, training and paying Iraqis to kill people other than ourselves.

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2:12 pm, Oct 19, 2009

This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.

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6:01 pm, Oct 19, 2009

rahgolf

That works for me!!

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10:23 am, Oct 20, 2009

roger37

The "surge" never would have worked without the Sunni Awakening. The Iraq Al Qaeda franchise screwed up because the Sunnis were pressured too much by them.

The US's foreign policy "experts" have always held the mid-East people in contempt, ignoring our past ventures that screwed up due to simple ethnocentrism. Some of the military in AfPak are trying to recognize that, but there is no agreement. That's why Barack Obama is trying to sort it all out before doing "Ready, Fire, Aim like Bushleague and Cheney.

Gates agrees with this, so don't blame these facts on reading HuffPo or Kos.

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8:10 pm, Oct 24, 2009

hazardta

Nation building is what turned Iraq into a 6 year quagmire that has cost trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives, with no clear victory parameters. Does this sound like a good game plan for afghanistan?

I'm sure conservatives would love President Obama to fall into the same political black hole the Bush did, which is why they identify liberals who are against action in Afghanistan as "anti-surge". Yes the surge worked to bring order. But the surge was a band-aid, we should have never gotten into a situation where a surge was required. If the only way a government can create order is with overwhelming military presence... that's not a success, not by a long shot.

We need to face facts here. We cannot change this region with military action. How can we commit ourselves to build a nation at such an enormous expense to the American people?

No nation building.

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11:23 am, Oct 19, 2009

bgeasyas123

No, what turned Iraq into a 6 year quagmire was launching an attack under false pretenses....."WMD's"

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2:09 pm, Oct 19, 2009

rahgolf

The Cajun is right!!

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10:24 am, Oct 20, 2009

rufride4u

no what turned iraq and now afghanistan into quagmires is going in half cocked, and not really in it to win. had we gone into wwwII that way we would be under nazi rule today. and who else in history has every nation built better than us. hello japan, germany, thriving vibrant democracies. hmmm we even wrote their constitutions. and naysayers said the same then it would never work, well guess what it did.

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10:43 pm, Oct 30, 2009

rufride4u

really, well tell that to the girl who wants to become a doctor, or the girls braving acid in their face to get an education. we owe to them to stay and help them build a stable country. at least as stable as it was before the soviets came and we abandoned them and left them to the taliban. had we done it right in the 80's bin laden wouldn't have had the safe haven in afghanistan. and 9/11 probably would not have happened. lets not sentence another generation of afghans to hell on earth. they are afraid of helping us because they believe we will leave too early, than what beheading by taliban, acid in thier daughters faces. come on where are a ideas of justice. and helping the underdog, even if it is with the big bad military. as our first female secretary of state once said, what the hell do we have it for.

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10:40 pm, Oct 30, 2009

Frenchmanaz

Mr. Beinart, while I appreciate your position, it always bothers me when pundits talk about political positions as though they are static, as though what one believed 2 years ago vis a vis a perpetually evolving situation, is what they should stick with.

You do afford Biden a little luxury by understanding the reasons for his change in thinking but then mock him for doing so.

Indeed it is heartbreaking to even think about the attrocities perpetrated against particularly young school girls by the Taliban and to think that the US might once again be responsible for starting a war that it might not finish, leaving countless locals, who supported us, to languish and suffer.

However, Afghanistan is the world's war, not just ours and we have numerous other areas to focus on, of even greater importance in this " war on terror ". So the question is, why is it OUR sole responsibility to send in more of our young ?

Although our nation cannot afford to expend our financial resources, if money was the issue, then it would be easier to swallow. But you are asking us to contemplate losing our own children in a fight that has never been winnable.

Let us keep in mind that Afghanistan was able to expend the Russians without a single American troop on the ground, so If Karzai's objectives are, as you say, ultimately honorable, could we not provide the same kind of resources we provided to fight the Russians, rather than more of our children ? That region of the world is chock full of mercenaries for sale, we would be spending this money anyway, why not give Karzai the resources to fund his own army ? The answer to this is likely that we do not trust Karzai, that he will instead pocket the money. In which case, is Karzai really this loyal partner you claim.

You speak as though the Taliban will ever really go away, when the truth is they will sit for as long as it takes on the periphery and swoop in, 10 years from now, after we have buried thousands of our children.

We thought the same way you do about Vietnam, that once we left it would turn into hell on earth, but look at it today. I understand that there are different variables but our singular goal was to kill terrorists not save the Afghans.

I am not a heartless man and feel deeply for what the Taliban represents, but the world is full of countries led by savages and we cannot save them all.

If we pull out of Iraq, gain the approval of many other nations that they will send some of their own in, therefore cutting our own need to sacrifice our own, then maybe, but even then one has to wonder if we will ever achieve the desired goal. Afghanistan is smack in the middle of the bees nest, surrounded by foe and radical Islam. Trying to turn Afghanistan into an oasis in the middle of this terror filled region is idealistic at best.

The question I ask is, if the tables were turned, would they do the same for us ?

Our kids over there weren't given the tools to do the job they were originally sent there to do, now the cancer has spread throughout the world, so it's time to bring our kids home from both Iraq and Afghanistan, let the chips fall where they may. We need to look out for our own best interest, given everyone else is doing so. Again, if the discussion was about sending anything but our own kids, then my opinions would be different.

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11:33 am, Oct 19, 2009

rufride4u

your right is is the worlds war, but as usual where is the world, the global community that bush supposedly ignored. yes he screwed it up. but he had plenty of help. we have obama and the world still sits silent. if not us who? if not now when? our brave soldiers are there because they believe in what they are doing, give them the tools and resources to do the job right and you will have a new afghanistan. the soviets went to occupy. the afghans know we are there to help, and will help us to change their country if they know we will not leave them to savages of the taliban. as decent human beings we owe them this, for our abondoning them in the 80's after charlies war. come people we are supposed to be liberals who care about us and the world. why are we turning into neanderthals and isolationists.

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10:50 pm, Oct 30, 2009

ThinkAgain

Rumsfelds strategy was to send a bunch troops over there to do nothing but hang out and get attacked.

The only difference is that Rumsfeld would have insanely hunkered down forever. The democrats want to hang out until things deteriorate enough that they can justify implementing that cut and run strategy they love so much.

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12:43 pm, Oct 19, 2009

artsyfartsy

Cut and run? Let's look at that. Democrats Roosevelt and Truman won WWII, Eisenhower and Nixon left Korea and Vietnam unfinished. If only you neocons knew your history.

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2:06 pm, Oct 19, 2009

ThinkAgain

Oh for godsakes, I'm talking about the current democrats. The actual people in Congress NOW. It's the same crowd that wanted to cut and run in Iraq. Keep up, you can't just turn on your old WWII 'program' and run it in Afghan.

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5:27 pm, Oct 19, 2009

rufride4u

actually it was ford who left vietnam. nixon was bombing the north to hell and back and they were on the verge on surrender. but ford flinched. and left millions to die, and all the poor boat people trying to flee that horrid north regime.

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10:52 pm, Oct 30, 2009

wcasey

WE CAN EITHER FIGHT THEM HERE OR THERE.
IF WE FIGHT THEM HERE THEN ALL THE MOTOR MOUTHS CAN SHOW US WHAT THEY ARE MADE OF.
CASEY PURVIS

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1:16 pm, Oct 19, 2009

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3:45 pm, Oct 19, 2009

Nuld001

Peter, you have written a very thought provoking article. This boils down to the politic - how this plays here and in Afghanistan. We all continue to sit and wait until the run-off elections before any decision of some kind is made by the President and his administration.

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1:19 pm, Oct 19, 2009

Picachu

Ah, just what we needed, another neo-con attack piece. Yes, let's surge in Afghanistan just like we did in Iraq. It will work just like it did in Iraq. Please tell how the surge has worked. I will conceded it has lowered the internal violence to some degree. Has it moved Iraq any closer to our being able to disentangle ourselves from that ill-conceived engagement? Are the iragis any closer to true self-governance without a substantial US force in country? Oh, yes, let's surge in afghanistan, but of course let's ignore Afghanistan's well earned reputation as the graveyard of empires.

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2:11 pm, Oct 19, 2009

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n--Y--genomegk
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3:36 pm, Oct 19, 2009

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n--Y--genomegk
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3:43 pm, Oct 19, 2009

sojourner3

Well, Peter, if you think you can do better in Afghanistan, how about putting your plump little bum in a humvee and hauling it on down over there. Talk is cheap. Oh, but I forgot. That's what you do, isn't it? Everytime you get all hairy-chested with words calling for war, war, and more war, fine young men and women die. But what does that have to do with you?

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4:51 pm, Oct 19, 2009

Greatcaesarsghost

What is interesting in the above comparison of two different administration's officials positions on Afghanistan strategy, is that the official who was in power and would be held accountable for his policy choices had similar views as to what could be accomplished with a democratic government in Kabul as his counterpart from the other party. The opposition, in both cases, was more expansive in assessing the possibilities attainable by American intervention, more willing to focus on a narrow objective for US policy in the region and, of course, all too willing to attribute failure to the fecklessness of administration policy. In 21st century America, we seem to find our greatest enemies, not in the tyrants and despots that brutalize their fellow man in contravention to all our professed standards, but, in our fellow citizens, who hold differing points of view as to what we are capable of doing about it.

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7:11 pm, Oct 19, 2009

enyage

I appreciate all of your comments. I must say, however, as an optimist: do you really think our goal now, or was, or ever will be, to liberate muslim women? no, never. so this short-sighted propaganda shouldn't even be published. its not even a real opinion.

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9:35 pm, Oct 19, 2009

sfgary

At this stage of the game there is really no point in rehashing past mistakes. But we've spent more time messing about in two mini "wars" than we did in WW II. Dropping a couple of "smart" bombs from drones is not going to get the job, whatever it is, done. Either have a plan and execute it or get the heck out. The easiest and the fairest way to com to a decision is to call a draft. I have a feeling Americans will only get serious about this war when a draft is called. Until then its someone else's sons and daughters getting killed or maimed in a country that most Americans can't locate in a map.

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12:49 am, Oct 20, 2009

rufride4u

well i don't think we really need a draft, but if and when we do go to war, we must go all in, and be prepared to do the nation builiding and investments that we did after wwwII. had we done this after routing the taliban, we would not be having this discussion. i agree with article biden was right and is now wrong. we must commit to investing not only military might, but in rebuilding the country, roads, schools, letting them know we won't leave until the job is done and the people are secure and can defend themselves. only until the population trusts us to stay and help will they come around to our side. right now they not sure they can trust us.

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11:00 pm, Oct 30, 2009

rahgolf

BRING BACK THE DRAFT!

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10:26 am, Oct 20, 2009
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Biden: The New Rumsfeld

by Peter Beinart

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