Blogs and Stories
At Last, An Afghan Plan
Kevin Lamarque / Reuters
Chopper crashes killed 14 Americans in Afghanistan on Monday, ratcheting up pressure on Obama to decide on a surge. Leslie H. Gelb reports he's ready to act—but not even his advisers know what he'll do.
President Obama is set to make his “final” decision on Afghanistan later this week or early next. Presumably, his public orations will follow shortly thereafter — and not a moment too soon, given the mounting angst at home and abroad about the delays and uncertainties. He has spent the last month in endless meetings brilliantly dissecting everyone's facts and everyone’s arguments, including General Stanley McChrystal's. Yet, for all the back and forth, it’s not clear that any of his principal national security advisers (Secretaries Clinton and Gates and National Security Adviser Jim Jones) knows exactly where he’s coming out. Perhaps he’s shared his gut feelings with political intimates like White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and senior adviser David Axelrod. Perhaps he still hasn’t made up his own mind.
Full counterinsurgency capability is a mirage. McChrystal might just keep asking for more American troops every year. Transforming Afghanistan's government and society. is way beyond our power.
The White House does a good job of muffling presidential deliberations. And they’ve put the fear of God into those contemplating unauthorized leaks. So, to divine what’s really going on, it is necessary to sift slivers from the either. No White House can totally squash that revealing either. Here’s what may be in Mr. Obama’s heart of hearts, if he could decide policy solely on the merits:
- Stick with the goal in Afghanistan of defeating, or better yet, neutralizing al Qaeda (not much choice here) through both a counterinsurgency strategy (a la McChrystal and stepped up counter-terrorism a la Vice President Joe Biden). But begin the process now of turning the war over to friendly Afghans. Back this up with a surge of around 15,000 or so new U.S. troops on top of the roughly 70,000 already authorized. But shift operational emphasis sharply from increasing reliance on U.S. forces to seriously arming and training all friendly Afghans, giving them primary combat responsibility. And strive for a more toned-down and realistic version of nation-building, so that America can be in more of a supportive role in a couple years.
- Make even more U.S. aid available for the government and army of Pakistan if they’ll fight hard against the Taliban, clean up their act at home and commit to improving the lives of their people. Avoid all rhetoric suggesting that somehow America can determine or is responsible for Pakistan’s fate.
These are much more modest and attainable objectives than Obama’s earlier proclamations of a “fully resourced” “war of necessity.” It’s not a radical shift in policy. In no way does it mean retreat or defeat. It is a policy geared to a reduced, but long-run American presence in this region--a presence politically sustainable in the United States and sufficient to combat ongoing threats. Its underpinnings are far more realistic than the assumptions of the McChrystal strategy: Afghans will never be able to create and keep a 400,000 plus-member army, plus hundreds of thousands of reliable police. So, full counterinsurgency capability is a mirage. McChrystal might just keep asking for more American troops every year. Transforming Afghanistan's government and society is way beyond our power. It’s their culture, their history. And McChrystal’s military strategy can’t work without these non-military miracles. Finally, staying in Afghanistan forever is not the best or only path to save Pakistan from the Taliban. If Pakistan’s leaders don’t see their own vital interests, their very survival, in preventing a Taliban victory, no, repeat, NO American policy in Afghanistan can provide the missing incentives. The McChrystal strategy promises not victory, but an endless and uncertain struggle against a terrorist enemy that can already attack us from places outside Afghanistan.
• Shirin R. Tahir-Kheli: Obama’s Pakistan Problem
•Patrick Hennessey: Of Course More Troops Are Needed
• Elise Jordan: Why Afghans Are Turning on America
But the middle course that may be in Mr. Obama’s mind has its own problems—mostly political in nature. Though it makes practical sense, it may not get him out of the political fix he’s put himself in with the American military. From the military’s perspective, they’re just doing what the boss originally asked for. In March, he spoke of Afghanistan being one of America’s central security threats and fully endorsed a counterinsurgency strategy. Then he went so far as to fire his commander in the field and give the job to Gen. McChrystal for the express purpose of fighting an all-out counterinsurgency effort. Now, McChrystal—backed fully by regional commander General David Petraeus and Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen—is asking for a minimum of about 40,000 new troops to do the job Mr. Obama dispatched him to do. The president’s political difficulties worsened last week after Defense Secretary Bob Gates engineered the endorsement of NATO’s defense chiefs for the counterinsurgency strategy and presumptively for the 40,000 additional troops as well.
John Talks Joe
Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
The Right Dumps Carrie
Jacob Bernstein is a senior reporter at The Daily Beast. Previously, he was a features writer at WWD and W Magazine. He has also written for New York magazine, Paper, and The Huffington Post.
McChrystal's Fuzzy Math
Leslie H. Gelb, a former New York Times columnist and senior government official, is author of Power Rules: How Common Sense Can Rescue American Foreign Policy (HarperCollins 2009), a book that shows how to think about and use power in the 21st century. He is president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations.
Stalled Out All Over the World
Leslie H. Gelb, a former New York Times columnist and senior government official, is author of Power Rules: How Common Sense Can Rescue American Foreign Policy (HarperCollins 2009), a book that shows how to think about and use power in the 21st century. He is president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations.
How To Win Afghanistan
Leslie H. Gelb, a former New York Times columnist and senior government official, is author of Power Rules: How Common Sense Can Rescue American Foreign Policy (HarperCollins 2009), a book that shows how to think about and use power in the 21st century. He is president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------
Oct/26/2009/1:15 A.M.
The soviets lost in Afghanistan,the USA lost big time in Viet-
nam,the USA lost in Irak ( all arabs including Saudi Arabia will
always hate the USA ).
Is the USA going to keep borrowing money from
the chinese,so that we can stay in afghanistan for 17 more
years?
Right now the USA has military bases in Colombia,South America.Is the USA going to start torturing
and killing as many south americans as possible?
----- Reinstate the draft! the crooked republican
senators have very few of their offspring in Irak and in Afghanistan.We need to keep everything fair.
---- We can not even pass a government run
health care bill;How can we even dream that
we will be able to correct the problems in
Afghanistan?
------ Stop the lobbysts from corrupting the USA
politicians!.
----- Get out of Afghanistan as soon as possible.
----- Get out of Colombia,South merica as soon as
possible
------ Prosecute Bush/Cheney.
------ Prosecute the crooks in the stinky USA Health
Care Industry.1/3 of the USA population will get
cancer during their life time.The hospitals are
charging $ 250,000 for some chemo/radiation
therapy.Multiply 120 000 000 ( one hundred twen-
million persons) per $ 250,000 that is how much
the USA Health Care Industry is stealing from
the USA tax payers.
----- Why is it so difficult to copy one of the excellent
government run Public Heath Care Systems from
other countries? Is it because the crooks in the
Insurance Industry do not want to lose their cash
cow?
------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------
Let me get this straight, 100 people dying, 500 injured block away from the green zone in Iraq is not enough to change the media's "forget Iraq its all about Afgan now" stance.
What does a helicopter crash (sad and tragic) unless shot down have to do with a surge? The media is driving our national narrative in illogical ways then claim they have no control over it.
octavio - "all arabs including Saudi Arabia will always hate the USA".
You exaggerate, but I can too. They hated us before, they will hate us afterwards. But not all of them.
octavio - "Reinstate the draft! the crooked republican senators have very few of their offspring in Irak and in Afghanistan.We need to keep everything fair."
Perhaps military service should be made a requirement for holding political office. If their offspring wish to continue in the same line of work as their fathers\mothers, then they too have to serve in the military. Disclaimer: Reasonable accommodation would be made according the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.
octavio - "We can not even pass a government run health care bill; How can we even dream that we will be able to correct the problems in Afghanistan?"
Two different matters.
The first matter requires patience. It's the way our form of government functions. Notice I didn't say 'It's the way our form of government works'.
Usually when Congress acts in haste we repent at leisure. Do you remember the 'Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002'? Bush asked for it shortly after September 12, 2002, the House approved it October 10, 2002, the Senate approved it October 11, 2002, and Bush signed it into law October 16, 2002. Only took about a month to get us into the mother of all messes.
The second matter requires even more patience and I suspect we are only able to correct one or three of the very many problems in Afghanistan. These being 1) Create a functional government that can defend itself; 2) Create some sort of infrastructure that locals can use to make money; 3) Get our military the hell out as quickly yet as cleanly as possible.
octavio - "Stop the lobbysts from corrupting the USA politicians!."
That would be great. Any ideas on how to accomplish that? And would that be all lobbyists, including AARP, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, Amnesty International USA, World Vision and the Girl Scouts of America?
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=AARP&year=2009
octavio - "Prosecute Bush/Cheney."
Fascinating. I suspect that you and I share the same general feeling about Bush and Cheney, but do you have some knowledge about specific criminal acts committed by Bush and Cheney that can be taken before a district, state or federal attorney? Bear in mind that incompetence and being wrongheaded aren't actual crimes here in the United States. Nor is being evil hearted or a tyrant. Remember, Saddam was tried for specific criminal acts, and not for being a dictator.
What great points. I actually learned something here and food for my thoughts. Thank You.
This is the Afghanistan Solution, the strategy we need, what we should do, how to do it, and why, when the dithering is done, and what I, an independent candidate for president am going to do upon election to our highest office.
That is a happenstance that cannot be ruled out, as the American people will find out when I wrote this essay, and how many places I've posted it, and how it affected, or failed to affect our policy.
The issue is wiping out the terrorist elements that have overrun Afghanistan, and saving lives, not who wins the next election for president. A failure to consider this clearly stated approach and solution will hasten the idea that Obama's presidential experience will conclude after a single term.
We either adopt this opium poppy strategy, explained below, or we risk another terrorist attack in America, rivalng the 9 / 11 attack. White House officials involved in the ongoing Afghanistan deliberations should carefully consider the real world realities clearly stated here.
After the dithering is done, the key to winning Afghanistan and Pakistan, to dissolving al Qaeda and Taliban, is opium; world wide, the grandest papa of al thel opiates. That dirt-cheap heroin readily bought on the streets of Kabul, by the gates of all our military barracks, in the streets of Manhattan and Washington DC, began a sleepy Pashtun poppy, milked in Afghanistan, oceans away.
Cheney was on the television as i prepared an earlier rendition of this Afghanistan solution, talking about how Afghanistan cannot be allowed to become a training ground for terrorists again, when that is not today's issue at all. Afghanistan is the prime source for the world's opiates and chronic high tonic marijuana, a multi-billion dollar enterprise, feeding the underground economy and funding the world's terrorist activities. In the words of George W. Bush, "Big time."
That ultra pure heroin bag; available on select street corners in every major city in the western world, started out an opium poppy grown in Afghanistan. You first saw the crowded Afghani poppy fields with Judy Garland The Wizard of Oz.
93% of the world's opium is grown and refined into heroin right on the Afghani farms! They are not such a backward unsophisticated country as rigid status quo Gelbite bureaucrats are apt to paint them. 93% is an eggs-all-in-one-basket huge monopoly! The farmers grow the highest quality most potent opium that yields the most heroin, world wide!
Bill Gates must marvel at their opium / heroin market share. Monopoly! Irreplaceable, worldwide; a blessing for all sides, especially us, because controlling the opium poppy fields means we will have taken over the main source of income for all the barbarian Taliban, famishing the terrorist al Qaeda operations in all the neighboring countries, besides all of the Western Hemisphere cartels and subtle European drug dealerships.
The heroin lifeblood for terrorists and drug cartels is smuggled throughout Europe, with tons, tons going by plane and ship to South America where, repackaged, its origin is disguised so no one gets wise; and from there, routed to Mexican cartels, and from Mexico, into our country, to be sold in our ghettos, suburban streets and school yards every where by illegals on the cartel payrolls, building a street corner network of dime bag dealers.
For the cartels this wholesale heroin represents billions of dollars in retail business. Billions of underground criminal, and terrorist dollars!
The key to stuffing Taliban and al Qaeda, eradicating all of their corruption of Afghanistan, is to choke the opium supply the Afghan farmers are world wide famous for; choke the opium supply which would wipe out the opium / heroin smuggling trade; and choke their Western Hemisphere criminal customers, on our side of the sea.
We don't have 68,000 troops in uniform, stationed in South America, chopping down the Columbian jungle to get at the cocaine plantations. That is not happening, and won't. But we do have 68,000 troops stationed in Afghanistan, and the opium poppy stratgegy carefully explained here will SAVE MOST OF THEIR LIVES.
Surely, you, the reader, hopefully a White House official involved in the deliberations over what and how to proceed in Afghanistan do not want to see any more lives lost and American blood shed.
The Taliban's and al Qaeda's end in the opium/heroin trade nets millions of dollars, peanuts in the big picture, falafel on the table for Taliban's "freedom fighters" over the border, in Pakistan; and money paid to the families of al Qaeda's suicide bombers throughout the region.
But without the opium / heroin trade, al Qaeda and Taliban would be financially decimated. The Western Hemisphere drug cartels would lose hundreds of millions of dollars and be facing their own recession. All of the illegal heroin in the United States would dry up as the monopoly pipeline for the heroin would be destroyed!
Do not suggest to me we don't want that! Of course that is exactly what we want, the cartel USA employees signing up for unemployment insurance.
In Iraq, whoever is running the roads, wins. In Afghanistan, the opium dollar is fueling both the war and the Taliban structure, enabling them to strike! Afghanistan is a poor country with a rich culture. Whoever controls the opium harvest will have battled for that right. The hardy farmers get only enough to live decently and plant their fresh poppy.
The Taliban "freedom fighters" would leave for home in a heartbeat, were they not getting fed and allowed to wile away the day smoking the black Afghani hashish. No food no money no fight. The newly chosen Taliban "leader" has a payroll he must meet. The opium proceeds cover that payroll!
Mr President Obama is our Commander-in-Chief, the civilian boss in charge of our ribbon shirts, but his military bureaucrats, and the retired cable news talking heads are all misreading and misleading the war.
The Wall Street Journal reports: "White House officials familiar with deliberations said that while some elements of the Taliban were inclined to harbor al Qaeda, which operated freely in Afghanistan through 2001, other Taliban were focused on Afghanistan's internal politics and much less likely to support the international terror group."
Oh! The Taliban is more interested in securing seats on the neighborhooded school boards. Get reel!
The Taliban differs from al Qaeda in one respect. Taliban are criminal drug dealers hiding behind religion and oppressing the local people they believe is the key to their continuing success in controlling the opium / heroin, whereas Al Qaeda smuggles heroin to fund sensless political attacks throughout their region, and to plan another 9/11 which cannot be accomplished without millions of opium dollars swapped with Goldman Sachs.
A few years ago a Taliban leader came to Texas. The official reason for the "trip" that was to meet with oil executives about an oil pipeline. While in Texas, using throw away drugstore purchased throw away cell phones, Taliban Mullah Omar held lengthy conversations with a Mexican Cartel person and a Columbian cartel dude about shipping refined heroin to Mexico via Columbia instead of shipping tell tale smelly opium. The Mullah was visiting Texas to do the heroin pipe line deal, using the imagined oil pipe line as a cover!
The Columbians got into the act because no one would suspect heroin originating in far off Afghanistan would be round-about smuggled into USA via South America, then to Mexico.
We don't need to build an Afghanistan army. The unalighned unofficial Afghani militias know how to fight.
With a little strucure and dollar support at the bottom, at the farm level, they will protect themselves. Abraham Lincoln established a sea embargo to win the Civil War. Without supplies by ship from Europe, the Confederate Army was doomed.
Our troops get killed on border patrols between Pakistan and Afghanistan to protect our way of life across the ocean. Yet a stone's throw away, Mother Nature's opium is grown for the criminal and international terrorist's gain? How can our military be so dumb as to allow this to go on, creating millions of terrorist jihad dollars?
The only thing going across that Pakistan / Afghanistan border are paid fighters and convoys of drug smugglers hauling their cargo. The Afghan opium is key to everything happening in Afghanistan and Pakistan!
We own the opium and the country is ours. Opium control means renegade Taliban, al Qaeda terrorists, and warlords are on the road again. Skedaddled or killed.
(I like the idea of not killing anybody.)
The White House failure to respond to this open letter will lead to loss of American lives, and eliminate the possibility of Barack Obama being reelected to a 2nd term in our Highest office. As the person who created the Vehicle for World Peace, I can promise that much. But the author of this article is not the issue here, only the authority of the real world strategy presented.
The opium production and our clear ability to control that opium, is the only issue that should be dithered! An overwhelming majority of the American people would agree.
Our guys must begin digging foxholes in every opium field, making CIA Cash In Advance deals with the Afghanis we are purchasing their opium crop for top dollar, in raw opium form. The farmers don't have to brew the black sap into a dangerous snowy heroin powder, so they are poppy plentiful, an ounce or two for the house, compliments of us.
Raw opium isn't dangerous. You won't kill yourself smoking opium the way you can so easily overdose from a heroin syringe, or pass out and die from too large a snort, so we want their whole crop raw, just like unefined brown sugar, and we will pay the refined opium heroin price which is similar to tacking on an additional 65 cents to a bushel of Iowa corn.
The Afghanistan war momentum will immediately shift!
Instead of Taliban's "freedom fighters" picking us off every other day as we patrol the dangerous Afghanistan border, we will occupy the opium poppy fields and wait for Taliban to show up, our invited guests to their slaughter.
The key to Afghan quality of life for Taliban, thugs without a country when we defeat them, to shipping their kids off to the Ivy League is based on who gets to stash the cash from Afghanistan's opium crop.
Karzai and his drug dealing family in Kabul are part of this. How could they not be getting a slice?
At the same time, on the diplomatic front we ought to push to reunite Pakistan with India. This will initiate an eviction of Taliban by the Pakistani people, besides the military operation going on as we speak! For Pakistan, rejoining India means freedom, food, jobs, education, and a better life. Only the Pak military bureaucrats are against this idea, and their minds could be changed with a passport, an SUV, and a forty acre guarantee in Montana.
Instead of knee jerk reactions to my Hunt For The Red October reference to 'Montana," just get creative and plant that idea above the fold in their newspapers! Now is the time for us to wag the Pakistan India dog!
Sad, these policies, purchasing Afghanistan's opium, piecing off the Pak military, and reuniting Pakistan with India may be too progressive for Barky Obama, and for his Secretary of State Hillary Clintstone, but maybe not.
Certainly wagging this Pakistan-India dog will be incentive for the Paks to completely evict the Taliban and that is what we want! The Paks have nothing going for them under the Taliban gun.
Don't you know the Taliban bribed the Pak military for long-term safe journey with the opium money. That is how Taliban established their foothold in Pakistan! Opium money! Unfortunately our president is surrounded by bureaucrats who wouldn't recognize the scent of an opium house were they standing at the door.
Many Taliban soldiers will change colors of their turbans and meld into the crowd as soon as they understand the opium harvest has been taken away from them. It isn't about religion, or the neighbor hooded school board, or how many times a day you pray to Big Al (Allah to you), it is about the opium / heroin and millions of dollars in cash! Seeing as you can eat three hot meals a day in the streets of Mumbai for less than 75 cents, with 25 cents for a hookah full, one million dollars = one million days divided by x number of Taliban Kalishnekov slugs.
In Afghanistan, we need to get busy, prepare the fields, create comfortable foxholes on every poppy acre, booby trap the brush surrounding with a wide safe swath to the farmhouse, and make it clear to the farmers, by CIA shelling out Cash In Advance, we are purchasing their whole raw opium crop but paying top refined heroin price, so the farmers are with us! Super incentive for the farmers. Less work more money.
Taliban, Al Qaeda and warlords will have to exit their caves and cross the poppy fields instead of picking us off with their remotely detonated roadside attacks. Retired military will be opposed to this poppy war, but hard pressed to tell you why because they support that opium trade just the way it is.
We are purchasing their poppy crop, and negotiating fair and square and in advance how much sticky black sap can be extrapolated from each plant. This is a job for our enlisted soldiers in the field to negotiate with the farms where they are dug in, not CIA officers who are from Kabul, not living on the farms in foxholes!
The plants, ripening by day, are the draw for Taliban, al Qaeda and warlords to show, the only way for them to go, taking on our troops in the poppy fields where we will defeat them!
When they come down the yellow brick Afghanistan road we can sting them from above. A couple drone attacks will turn them all around in their tracks. No opium no paychecks. Road kill ids not the way to the bosom of Allah.
The extra virgin first milk is scheduled to start tomorrow. Our enemies know that. The farmers are out of the picture as they are already paid in advance. At 4:00 a.m. we begin snipping every plant two inches above ground with two handle bush trimmers, chop chop, just like that. At dawn, we start stuffing wood chippers and spread the soil with the chopped up results to fertilize next year's crop.
So good-bye Taliban grunt, and don't step on any land mines going home.
A couple million heroin addicts in Europe will be going cold turkey! The Mexican and Columbian drug cartels will be out of heroin, and lose hundreds of millions of criminal dollars in projected sales.
Regardless bureaucrats will be viciously against this operation. The status quo is how the rigid government's bureaucrats want to go.
But with a cash infusion at the farm level, Afghanistan will begin to flourish from the bottom up. The Afghani people will start rebuilding their own country, without corruption from above, roads and schools decided by tribal leaders in the farm districts, with a helping hand from us.
We must also purchase their whole marijuana and hashish crop, and either sell that to the shops in Amsterdam or bring each of the harvests to USA for medicinal purposes or run the risk that that crop, too becomes an income for the terrorists. Afghani marijuana is the most potent in the world, best for relief of chemotherapy's side effects.
Regardless what your surrounding bureaucrats say,I say we occupy the opium fields, purchase the whole crop, and all the heroin sold every day in our country will dry up! Young kids in poor neighborhoods will not become addicted to heroin. Don't we want that? Don't you? The opium / heroin dry up is guaranteed because all of the other countries where opium grows, they only have planted enough for their own home land and neighboring clientele.
The opium pays al Qaeda's world salary. But who controls the opium wins the terrorist war, world wide! The above poppy strategy will accomplish our mission! Those opposed want things the way they are. Follow the money. In the event we ignore the terrorist's cash cow, and leave, al Qaeda, opium rich, will have the funds to execute all of their murderous plans.
Wasn't the twin towers demise and their Pentagon attack enough! The opium trade paid for the 9/11 tragedy, not bin Laden's millions! We cannot risk allowing a 9 / 11 to repeat. We cannot!
Unless The white House wants it guaranteed before the end of his first year that Obama is a lame duck one term bye bye president, then ignore this assessment.
candidate for president
michaelslevinson.com
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
You have no clue as to what Clinton, Gates and Jones know regarding what the president has decided or when he is going to reveal it to you, because they aren't going to draw you into the circle. Nor should they. They do know that whatever decision the president makes that we do not have 40,000 additional troops to send nor will we have before the first of the year per Gates. They do know that the final deployment of the troops authorized in the Spring leave in December and that the harsh Afghan winter will slow conflict. They do know that even McChrystal states that regardless of troop numbers counterinsurgency in Afghanistan is ellusive and may very well fail.
The public knows that McChrystal has proved that he lacks the self-discipline to follow military protocol and is unfit to entrust with national interest ane the lives of troops. McChrystal irresponsible ambition proves that he should be relieved to pursue his career as a media star.
Octavio says the USA has bases in Colombia and will the USA start torturing as many south Americans as possible? No Octavio, only those that need be. us is by invitation of their Colombian people to help stop the drug trade. the demand for illegal drugs has created a cesspool in Colombia and innocent woman and children are murdered by drug traffickers. The USA has been a savior to most of Latin American's displaced European colonizers and has helped to keep the communist tide from becoming a flood, which has attracted the native populations of malcontents, and unrelenting population explosion. The exception has been Venezuela, where a communist has tried to hijack the European run country and give it to the indigenous. peoples, but the problem as we all know is that they do not know how to rule, Most canot even write and have no education. A classic example of this is Zimbabwe,(Rhodesia) You cannot take bush people and istal them in european style government and expect anything but disaster. This will happen in every latyin american country if ther USA does not intervene. The hondurans have almost sucumbed to this and the natives ae indeed relstelss and if it were not for the powers that be intestinal fortitude to repel this onslaught, Honduras would be in the midst of an indigenous uprissing.
Tha being said, it is not that a racist policy s being proposed, but a policy of reality. These natives have no education and no sense of a world view. They cannot run a country. They must walk before they can run. It is like teaching a child to drive a car. He may want to so badly, but his feet cannot reach the pedals and certain death is imminent. The children must grow and it will take generations, but slowly, they will emerge and become a force to be reckoned with. Look at the USA itself. the black population wanted to have full responsibility immediately and if it were not for the southerners and population in general, keeping them until they were ready, a disaster would have made the USA into a Zimbabwe. Hussein Obama is proof that with time and nurturing these peoples can be taught European ways and become mainstream and learn civilization. You cannot rush certain things and one must keep in mind that Evolution is nothing more than evenly paced Revolution.
Spo Octavio, hold onto your dreams and when the time comes it will be known. Your misdirected anger at Republicans or USA policy is childish and you too will learn, that it is not the Republicans or Democrats that are the problem, (Two sides of the same coin) it is the large corporate entities and banking that control the governments around the world. A power shift and struggle is taking place now of monumental proportions, the final outcome is yet to be played, but many will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 19th century, directly from the 18th century. Many native populations have been kept at a disadvantage for a reason and when and only when they are needed to fill the ranks of productive citizens, will they be allowed to progress. It does look like we will need them to progress and sustain the system, so you do have hope Octavio, you must be a little more patient. Not every thing happens all at once and Revolution is not in the cards. Financial incentives to keep them happy will see to that. That much the powers have learned. It is not time to isolate markets, but broaden them.
Wow, wildcat, at least you're coherent about your worldview -- things were at least honest when real politik and detente ruled. Of course, as honest as it is, it remains wrong.
In Latin America, democratic-socialist movements have resulted in the greatest degree of social mobility, improved education, and improved health. There's a reason Cuba had the highest life expectancy in the region until recently (when similarly socialist movements took power in Peru, Brasil, Venezuela and Argentina).
The inequalities you point to as evidence of those countries' citizens inability to govern are largely the product of the ineptitude of the very European leaders the US has for so long protected against democratic movements. This is easily confirmed by pretty much any metric (buying power, mean income, life expectancy, etc) since the ruling classes' fall.
Your second example regarding black Americans is equally backwards. You take as evidence the very social inequality and education gap that resulted from their treatment. Again, look at social mobility of ethnic minorities in other countries that ended slavery and segregation far before the US.
In short, you seem to be saying "it's wet outside, that's causing it to rain". The inequalities you perceive are the result, not the cause or justification of US and European economic domination.
Not that it isn't easy to do. I, too, am frequently tempted to hold the very same Eurocentric view when looking at the ignorance of Americans. For a democratic country with such low social mobility, such a poor education and healthcare system, to have so much money... It makes it far too easy to assume that's down to the idiocy of its inhabitants rather than the intelligence (although this is at times questionable) and immorality of its elite.
wildcat - Utterly fascinating. It reads like some political tract published in the late 19th Century or early 20th Century, chockfull of pseudo-scientific notions and justifications with a sprinkling of truth to suggest that the whole thing is true, something that people like Hitler or Lenin could have picked up at a political debate in Hapsburg Vienna and then incorporated into their worldview.
Are you a left-wing philosopher writing parody? Or are you Glenn Beck? Or have you somehow managed to steal his mojo? Your words all have his 'Through the Looking-Glass' style to it. You should write to him. He might need someone of your talent, and words fail me, but I would say someone having such a grand vision of the mechanics of human progress.
Please write in paragraph form. It would improve readability, and I assume you want people to read this. Please keep posting. Again, it's fascinating.
BTW - You do realize that we're currently in the 21st Century, right?
kayjay (10:43 am, Oct 26, 2009) - Well said.
good points kay and whip
RE freshing!
Mr. Gelb, I still can't see what the "win" is here. 25,000 Afghan insurgents and less than 100 al-Quaeda in that country (according to General Jones) doesn't seem to warrant 70,000 to 100,000 American troops. Even if we were able to beat the hell out of them, then we're into nation-building as well? What good does it do to take out 100 terrorists in Afghanistan when we know they are present and plotting in 48 countries?
Finally, are they present and plotting BECAUSE we are in their countries when perhaps, we shouldn't be?
Hey, Americans! Let's get pondering and see beyond noses. The scientists and building engineers had given facts beyond reasonable doubt that 9/11 saga was simply implosion of the Twin Tower and not explosion. If these Almighty Crooks could cause such wanton destruction to justify all-out war in Afghanistan, the same way the yet-to-seen Weapons of Mass Destruction as the price for still continuing bloodbath in Iraq, then where lies the success of America in these regions?
Americans, please wake up from your slumber! The hard-to-get tax payers' sweat together with the hard-to-pay loan from Chaina is been lavished, let alone the souls wasting away out there without knowing why they're in. How many of their siblings are in the front lines? P. Bush in the Navy is surely a hoax, time would tell.
If the Bushs have a scuffle with the Bin Ladens, innocent souls shouldn't be the buffer. Americans should resist the blood thirsty lobbyists, allow for more friendly foreign polices, make Americans more loveable outside the US.
The scholar A.B. Johnson has written an interesting article on his blog NotTheology.com about Al-Qaeda and their part in the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
He writes that "Al Qaeda's goal remains the same. It aims to 'provoke and bait' the United States into 'bleeding wars' throughout the Islamic world."
He goes on to say that "(a)s it is, al Qaeda is currently engaged with its allies in an effort to destabilize Pakistan. It is doing this to keep American troops in Afghanistan distracted as well as to make leaving Afghanistan all the more difficult for the U.S."
It seems to me that Al-Qaeda's goal is to keep America stuck in a never ending war in the region. I'm not saying we should just pack up and leave, but I understand why our President has taken so long with such a complex decision.
Powerful
While Richard Milhouse Obama dithers, men and women die.
The opposite is true. More troops on the ground, more terrorist attacks.
While reardongalt blathers, men and women yawn.
When Cheney and Bush 'dithered' over Afghanistan for ten months after a troop increase request, what did we call it then?
GM
Really! the nerve
That gets me too, but doubt you will ever ever get a healthy response to that.
Oh, GM, that's just frickin' history. Don't remind reardon about "history." Whatever happened more than 24-hours is irrelevant.
Future generations on the reardon family tree will have to straighten out Grampa
".....but not even his advisers know what he'll do. "
Who knows what he will do? No-one does. What do you expect when you hire a guy to do a job and you know NOTHING about him.
Proof lies in how his supporters always revert to the same old line......"He's better than Bush!" Woopdee do! My left testicle would have done a better job than GW.
HRC has this guy pegged during last years campaign.
The White House is no place for on-the-job training.....
Hay AIPAC and neocon crowed get a life, I'm glad that I did not serve with any off you , but of course you don't serve too master you only serve one, shalom
Leslie Gelb told Hillary Clinton that Iran would be an ally of the US in the Middle East and South Asia within five to ten years, due to common interests. Iran wants stability in Afghanistan, and no return of the Taliban to power in Kabul. So, why is the US so slow to engage with Iran on this issue?
Garvagh - That is a great mystery but I suspect has something to do with Saudi feelings about Iran, and Saudi feelings about certain matters help push, if not steer, what America does do and doesn't do in the Middle East.
But Mr Prez, don't tell your plan it will empower the enemy. That is why we did not hear the Bush/Cheney plan. And If someone asks you about your plan, like our X VP, tell them to F themselves.
Good enuf for them not to divulge their plan, why is everyone bugging you about yours.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
We have no leader with that title in the US nor anyone by that name in any branch of government.
Do you have anything of merit to add? Ever?
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
I am still waiting too.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
LOL
I should have known you were a "birther".
I could link you his birth certificate and the newpaper birth announcements (which have been a matter of public record since the election), but there is no point. You will apparently believe any ridiculous conspiracy theory that fits your distorted world view regardless of evidence.
I'd bet that the best way to get to you is by ignoring you, so I'll reserve my future responses for those with the capacity for rational thought. Besides, I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed blogger.
Enjoy life in your bunker!
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
dabeall "Oh, and Reason, wise move on the battle of wits .... you are unarmed."
Does not look that from here.
Thank you.
As a first time user, your comment has been submitted for review. It can take anywhere from a few hours to a day or two for your comment to be reviewed, depending on the time of week and the volume of comments we receive.
Please log in to leave comments.