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Traitor Joe
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The ex-Democrat now says he’ll join the GOP in a health-care filibuster. Paul Begala on Lieberman’s latest and most shameless betrayal.
It's journalistic shorthand to note a politician's party identification and state after his or her name. For example: Jane Doe (D-NY). And so Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman is identified as (I-CT). But the “I” does not stand for "Independent." It stands for "Insurance Industry."
Lieberman says he will join a Republican filibuster against President Obama's health-insurance reforms. You could see this coming from a mile away—actually from 15 years away.
In 1993 and 94, Lieberman consistently opposed President Clinton's reform bill—which did not have a public option. In case you're keeping score at home, Lieberman will filibuster the Obama plan, which has a public option, and he opposed the Clinton reform plan, which did not. Anything that protects consumers, it seems, is a bridge too far for Sen. Lieberman.
Lieberman sided with insurance companies against sick people, and with insurance companies against citizens who want to sue to protect their rights in court. As The New York Times reported, "Many of Mr. Lieberman's friends said he had no alternative but to take this position because it was the one favored by the insurance industry. The industry is important to Connecticut's economy and has generously donated to Mr. Lieberman's campaigns over the years."
Too much at once? Why didn’t that occur to Sen. Lieberman when we were fighting a war in Afhganistan, and he was cheerleading for an invasion of Iraq?
But in fairness to Sen. Lieberman, that's just what his friends said back in 2000, not what he says today. What he says today is that President Obama is "trying to do too much at once."
Too much at once? Too much at once? Why didn't that occur to Sen. Lieberman when we were fighting a war in Afhganistan, and he was cheerleading for an invasion of Iraq? Too much at once? How about 4,351 dead American heroes who gave their lives in a war that Joe Lieberman didn't think was doing too much?
Or how about FEMA? Lieberman insisted in letting the Department of Homeland Security swallow it up. Hillary Clinton warned him, basically saying FEMA was going to be doing too much in the event of a natural disaster and shouldn't be burdened by extra bureaucracy. But Sen. Lieberman didn't think FEMA was doing too much. You might say he thought Brownie was doing a heckuva job—because Sen. Lieberman blindly rubber-stamped Michael Brown when President George W. Bush plucked him from the Arabian Horse Association to run FEMA. Maybe Lieberman was doing too much to ask why President Bush was putting an unqualified boob in a life-and-death job.
• Matt Miller: Why the ‘Trigger’ Will Work
• Samuel P. Jacobs on the Pressure on Olympia Snowe Even before then, when George H.W. Bush was trying to pass a capital gains tax cut for the idle rich, Sen. Lieberman didn't think he was doing too much. No, Sen. Lieberman joined with Republicans and voted in favor of special breaks for the Paris Hilton class. He led the fight against Securities & Exchange Commission Chairman Arthur Levitt's accounting reforms, which were designed to rein in corporate abuses. Apparently Clinton and Levitt were just doing too much.
Sen. Lieberman is always there when we don't need him. Don't ask him to do more than that. It's just too much.
Paul Begala is a CNN political contributor and a research professor at Georgetown University's Public Policy Institute. He was a senior strategist for the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign and served as counselor to President Clinton in the White House.
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coltraning
the thing is, if he follows through on this, will the dems have the cojones to kick him out of his chairmanship. I hope Obama and Rahm force that, because he is useless and is a dead man walking. He has obviously decided that, unlike elastic Arlen, he will not run again in 2012 and will just suckle at the teat of his corporate masters for the next four years...
HDway1
Joe is a hero regarding his threat to filibuster Obama Healthcare. Lieberman sided with insurance companies against sick people, give me a break. We cannot afford Obama care, it is the downfall of America. Obama care, the government takes your Constitutional rights and your money and promises you what? Ever declining services. I am a Democrat but this administration and Congress has the tendency to violate their oaths of office and fashion policies outside the parameters of the U.S. Constitution, I do not want them reducing me or anyone to slavery under the guise of providing healthcare. Do you?
"(A) In GENERAL.-- For the purposes of reporting data on quality measures for covered professional services furnished during 2011 and any subsequent year, to the extent that measures are available, the Secretary shall include quality measures on the end of life care and advanced care planning that have been adopted or endorsed by a consensus-based organizations, if appropriate, Such measures shall measure both the creation of and adherence to orders for life sustaining treatment."
so-cal-centrist
HD, unfortunately I think it's by design. By creating this downfall gives the government an excuse to become more "intrusive" in order to control the nation more. This is bigger than it appears....our "rulers" want to be just that.
Not only are our enemies celebrating our demise, but nations like China will be in waiting to cash in on their investment. Aren't there about 200 million Chinese dudes with no wives? Bored? Looking for something to do?
WaltB31
It is disingenuous and insulting to compare receiving a public option for health care reform to slavery. Is Medicare slavery? Social Security? The US Postal Service? The Armed Forces?
Democrat or not, your current insurance sucks. You would know that if you had to use it.
There is NO SUCH THING as a good insurance policy. Why are you all so hell-bent on defending this crappy system?
And stop with the "death panel" bullsh@t. This ONLY pays for counseling for end of life issues, something Medicare pays for now.
so=cal centrist, you talk of China "waiting to cash in on their investment" Where the hell were you when Bush was borrowing money from the Chinese, putting us in $900 BILLION debt to them for the fraudulent Iraq oil war?
You people are obviously part of the crew that just wants to use every bogus excuse to oppose this President; like the teabaggers, to mask your own inherent biases.
Why do you hate America?
martis
oh you and your silly death panels. i love the old "i'm a democrat" throw away line as well. dude, face it, you're not a democrat ... you are a tea bagger. now get out there start flappin your arms about and screaming about the marxist threat!
JohnnyBeagle
Why can't we afford a medical model that has been proven in every other nation on earth that employs it as being less expensive and more efficient & productive than our present system?
Why do you refer to social services as unconstitutional?
Allguns
HDway1,
Usually you can let the truth in the door and it will take care of itself. How ever to many people here and in liberal loony land cant think past what the self anointed one says VS what he does. They are so blinded by his GQ power that they cant see a man who is so in love with being President that he's not doing his job as President. That being said, you could point out every failing with Obama Care and how its gonna cost to much, not address the issues that are causing the rise in health care cost, and so forth. However they don't care because they are on their high horse and in their view they are going to save you, whether you like it or not. They don't care about your Constitutional Rights or if they are being violated, they are in power and that is all that matters. Forget the promises of having Health Care covered on C-Span with both parties at the table, talking and working together. Forget about fiscal responsibility, Government Transparency, Holding onto bills for 7 days, No Lobbyist in the Administration, Closing Gitmoe in a year, Blah, Blah Blah. Obama said whatever people wanted to hear to get elected and now he is doing whatever he whats. When Specter turn coated the Liberals praised him, When Snowe voted for the Buacus Bill they creamed themselves, then said look we got Bipartisan approval. Now Lieberman says no and they claim hes sitting at the right hand of the Insurance Devils, it couldn't be He's listening to the people who elected him who's jobs will be destroyed and their live turned inside out.
Lucky for us, the Self Anointed One comes pre-lubed because we are going to need it after the screwing we are getting by this Administration.
As Pelosi said "We won the election, We wrote the bill". She said those words when they passed the stimulus bill, and nothing has changed sense.
mcmchugh99
Lieberman is a hero? Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. He's one of the worst Senators, and has never done anything for the common people in this country during his entire career. He is one of the most corrupt and self-serving people in the Senate, and that's saying something. The Republicans can have him as far as I'm concerned, along with Ben Nelson and some others, who are all in the bag for the insurance industry.
This idea of making everyone buy private health insurance is one of the biggest rip offs in history, and will be far more expensive than just expanding Medicare. These insurance companies will milk it for all it's worth, like they do with mandatory auto insurance.
adifferentage
I STILL can't wrap my head around this:
How is making health care accessible to those who cannot currently afford health insurance taking away constitutional rights? Why will people not READ and comprehend that "end of life counseling =/= 'death panels'"?
I just... what?
sherbug
Your entire post is devoid of any fact whatsoever. Why do you post such drivel without a shred of evidence to substantiate what you are claiming. This is all a matter of what you think and quite frankly, who cares what you think.
Theophilous
What I find most illuminating is the last sentance of HDway1's comment.
"Such measures shall measure both the creation of AND ADHERENCE TO ORDERS FOR LIFE SUSTAINING TREATMENT."
Sounds to me like if you do not obey the orders of the Secretary with regard to end of life care treatment there may be consequences.
The department of Homeland Security defines terrorism as "A violent act or an act dangerous to human life,... to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in the furtherance of a political or social objective."
In California members of the pro-Obama healthcare have engaged in acts which resulted in one man having his finger bitten off for his opposition to the healthcare legislation. That was an act of terroism and has not been brought to justice. I suspect that under the Obama admin, it never will be.
These end of life panels, as constituted under the Secretary and mandating adherence to their arbitrary standards, clearly represent a danger to continuation of a human life (if you are elderly or disabled) for the furtherence of a social objective. As such it may be argued that they represent one of the largest potential domestic terrorist oganizations ever concieved.
Tell me, is it now time for all of us to put on our purple SEIU shirts and learn to greet each other with a nice salute and shout of "Heil Obama"
jburrey2
Joe is a hero for voting for the Americans who can't afford more taxes and a trillion dollar deficit to pass on to generations. Why can't the poor signup for the goverment free program Medi-cade that only a few doctors will accept patients from. The new government health option would be no different...free and less care. Why take $500 billion from the Medicare program to pay for this government option, when they predict Medicare for the elderly will be out of money by 2017? Isn't that robbing Peter to pay Paul? I'm a Democrate and will change my registration to Independent, giving a no-confidence vote to the O'bama administration their health-care package, no jobs, esculating housing and commercial forclosures and no money for business' to grow and hire. But there is additional money for unemployment from the stimulus package. I wonder how many Americans will join me who have lost their jobs, homes, cars and most of their retirement investments on wallstreets.
idyllick
So why did Lieberman pledge support for universal health insurance during his campaign?
FLASHBACK: Lieberman pledged support for universal health insurance in 2006 campaign
http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002298/
Resolute
"slavery under the guise of providing healthcare." I'll have to add that to my chart of "the dumbest comments ever posted on TDB" right after "Joe [Lieberman] is a hero..."
I really don't care what your opinion is, but to categorize Lieberman's opposition as anything other than supporting a system of legal bribery is naive. He doesn't oppose this proposal with any half-decent argument, unlike the appearance given off by Republican talking points. No, instead, because he is not in any way representing his constituency, he does it to keep riding that gravy train.
Snertly
My apologies for disagreeing, HDway1, but you are not a Democrat; you are a nut job.
"Life _Sustaining_" Even Betsy McCaughey has given up on the death panel lie.
so-cal-centrist
This is stupid. When Snowe crossed the aisle she was hailed as a hero for "seeing the light." Now, Lieberman see's the light and this mess for what it is and he's a traitor? You libs are pretty much the most hypocritical, hysterical asses I think I've ever seen. Drunk with power and clueless!
WaltB31
The difference is that Snowe is crossing the aisle to move the country forward. Lieberman is crossing the aisle to keep his personal payments from insurance companies flowing. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Why do you hate America?
newyorkcity
Well, what I would say the real difference is between Snowe and Lieberman is that Snowe was working on the bill throughout the entire process (part of the "gang of 6") and only crossed over once she felt that the bill met enough of her long established and well defined criteria for what she saw as "good". Lieberman, on the other hand, has had almost no role in the process whatsoever, and all of a sudden throws his hat in the ring once he felt that the spotlight had been off him for too long. If you look at his statements and history, he has been all over the place on what he supports, and is only pulling this stunt at the 11th hour so he can make the rounds on the sunday talk shows again.
Johnnyappleseed
so-cal, look at california as an example of failed progressive government.
Take your meds and call us back in the morning, when everything is not so blurry to you.
Picachu
The only way you are a centrist is if the right wing move to the center. You are obviously a Fox news drone.
AndreainNY
The difference is...She supported Democrats and "moving the country forward". LOL.
Love the "traitor" accusation. So predictable. You're either with them or against them. Now...where have we heard that before?
Jinglebob
Yes, get Obama and Rahm to force him out Chicago style. Perhaps a dead fish wrapped in newsprint. Maybe Joe sees a thousand flaws in this secret bill that the Chicago mafia is trying to force on us.
RVGrandpa
Hey Rush (oops, I mean Jinglebob) what, exactly is "Chicago style"? I have been to Chicago many times and have found it to be a beautiful city with wonderful people. As to Loserman, the people of Connecticutt should do away with him via a recall or whatever they see fit. Believe me, Obama/Rahm have much more to deal with than this jerk. They are concerned with the country, not just one idiotic senator on the payroll of the insurance industry. Chill out.
AndreainNY
Jinglebob: Beck might find a horse's head in his bed if he's not careful.
Speaking truth to power, Chicago style.
Gkenyon
You freaking idiots have never been to Chicago. You're obviously low-level hayseed hillbillies who live in towns where marrying your cousin is socially acceptable and anyone who doesn't have arm fat and still wear tapered, acid washed jeans is considered "funny." Stay there. Watch your Springer and listen to Free Bird until the end of time, if it suits you. Nobody outside of your tiny sphere of existence -- and I mean nobody in the WORLD -- cares about anything you want or have to say. Enjoy irrelevance.
BaxBeGood
This piece covers several notable examples of Lieberman's duplicitous career in the Senate, and puts a spotlight on his coital relationship to the insurance industry, a longstanding bastion of the CT economy that effectively dictates state policy. However, in light of Lieberman's pivotal role in the health care debate, what is needed is an insightful and intimate look at his promiscuous party-swapping career, which has expanded into a full-fledged f--- fest over the past few years. I didn't know that this sort of sordid behavior existed among our elected leaders -- outside of public restrooms -- but Lieberman, God bless him, has single handedly created a new type of performance art that I'll call the "Lieberman Limp," which reflects his simpering, ambivalent, lackluster style. (Ever notice his tendency to sit on a fence until his pants rip?) Apparently, though, the Nutmeg state and country are big-hearted, open-minded and dim-witted enough to tolerate such a shifty and shameless chameleon to creep long the halls of power.
Should, by some freak occurrence, the voters of CT finally decide to put a stop to the increasingly lame Lieberman Limp machine in 2012, no one will have worry about Joe's financial wellbeing after he packs his carpetbag and shuffles out of D.C. Beltway insiders say that he is already planning a book, tentatively entitled Profiles in Pusillanimity, for which he is soliciting material from his Capitol colleagues. Meanwhile, the insurance cabal in Hartford will establish the Thirty Easy Pieces Foundation to train aspiring public leaders in the ABCs of political science: Amorality, Back-stabbing, and Chicanery. Lieberman will be chair for life, unless, that is, he has a change of heart.
mcmchugh99
In the next election in Connecticut, they should certainly go all out to defeat him. His is just an employee of the insurance industry and should stop collecting his salary from the public.
The only people on here defending him are the usual hacks and shills from the insurance companies, who want the government to mandate that everyone buy private health insurance from them.
Johnnyappleseed
Liberman is the only real Senator Connneticut has.
He represents those that elected him, for some two bit editorial writer to characterise him as a traitor, shows you what the progressives are all about.
He is one of the truly respected Seanators in congress.
freshhell
Johnnyappleseed, you need to plant a seed in information in your own thick head. Your previous comment about California being wrecked by failed "progressive" government screams your ignorance. I am a lifelong resident of California and it is completely ungovernable, but not because of "progressives".
We've had more R's in the statehouse than D's for most of my life, but that's not even the problem. The problem is that we are one of only 3 states that require a two-thirds majority to pass a budget, which means that every year the budget process is held up by, yes, the perpetual minority party, the Republicans! Add to that the fact that the vast majority of the budget is committed by mandate before debate begins and the fact that property taxes have been capped since Prop. 13 passed in the '70's, and the housing meltdown and 12.5% unemployment, and the picture is not pretty. However, it has nothing whatsoever to do with so-called "progressive" government, whether effective or ineffective.
As a Californian, I am mightily sick of morons like Johnnyappleseed ignorantly mischaracterizing my state. But what can you expect from an individual who apparently genuinely believes that Joe Lieberman, aka Droopy Dog, is "truly respected". Respected by his masters in the insurance lobby, maybe. By his peers, not so much. By history, forget about it!
SFGiants
Well said, freshhell!
AndreainNY
It's true. They love him in CT.
robwriter
Johnny, just out of curiosity, how do you pronounce "Seanator"? I'm guessing "shawn uh ter." I googled it, but didn't get a hit. Is it a real word, or just something that sprouted from your seed-sized brain?
Gkenyon
Lieberman only respresents the lobbyists that fund his campaigns. 55% of Americans want the public option. Why is it so hard for wingnuts to understand that? I realize, of course, that they are so partisan, so paranoid, and so uneducated that they allow themselves to become the unwitting pawns of the wealthy elite -- voting against their own economic interests to protect the wealthiest 2% of society. "Lower my insurance rates by introducing competition? Provide a safety net for those who can't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions? Make sure every American child can see a doctor? Never! That sounds like...let's see..what are they calling it this month? Socialism? Nazi-ism? Communism? Oh, I got it -- Fascism! Anyone who tries to help the middle class is a fascist! We only vote for those who help the obscenely rich CEOs of the world. We would rather let our kids starve and watch our neighbors go bankrupt, our relatives die of "pre-existing conditions", our earth become a toxic waste dump, and our country be hated around the world than vote for ANYTHING that might take money away from billionaires! Down with the middle class! Up with (wealthy) people! I know these guys are only trying to introduce things that could actually HELP me if I got into a bad situation -- but you see I'm not actually in that situation yet -- so why should I help others who are? I would rather make sure insurance companies have the right to deny coverage and keep tripling the rates for people like me every few years instead of helping my fellow Americans who need it!
I know this sounds ridiculous and un-realistic -- but this is exactly what these people are saying. They say it every time they vote for another conservative who votes 100% of the time for corporations over individuals. They say it every time they attack a liberal as "socialist" or "fascist" who is trying to help those less fortunate in our society. If God is just, one day they will be thrown into the same situations of the people they deny today. When they are bankrupt and without healthcare, hopefully they will look back and remember the venom they spewed at people in these situations, writing them off as "lazy" or less than human so they could sleep at night. And then, when they have finally been reduced to nothing through no fault of their own -- when their job is shipped overseas or their bank collapses or their daughter gets cancer and their insurance company refuses to pay because she had an appendectomy when she was 7, and the medical bills drive them into foreclosure -- who will help them then? Liberals, that's who. You can guess where the parties stand on any issue by simply asking two questions -- who wants to HELP the person who needs it: liberals; and who wants to vote to deny HELP to those who need it: conservative. This works for every issue. Conservatives are dinosaurs. They would like nothing better than to drag our country back to this imagined idyllic 50's that never really existed except in Leave it to Beaver episodes. They are truly the crazy, embarassing uncle in the attic who jabbers all day about the "foreigners" and hordes everything he has. Luckily, progressives -- those who believe in progress -- are starting to break our family ties with these cretins. We won't let them drag us down with them. This. Country. Is. Ours.
johnnyapplecd
man alive, I think I'm gonna have to get a new username.
Free12
Talk about dead men walking, Chris Dodd, Charles Rangel, and Pelosi.
Joe Lieberman will do just fine, and Paul Begala doesn't know what he is talking about.
chasmader
yo, Free12;
I live in Nancy Pelosi's district and can assure you, she ain't goin' anywhere anytime soon.
amanda07070
Hmm. Many valid point brought up by the posters here. You addressed none of them and instead simply said "I know you are but what am I". Childish.
daveugber
payback is a B#$%...the obama administration is leaving the israelis out to dry at the UN. Senator Lieberman is merely giving a gift back to our president. TRAITOR??? A traitor to traitors is not a traitor.
davidat
It is fine to disagree, as I do with Mr. Begala nearly always. What I find interesting is that he cannot entertain the possibility that someone can oppose the public option for legitimate policy reasons. He presumes that the only possible reason for Sen. Lieberman's position is that Lieberman is willing to harm the public in order to protect insurance companies. Fascinating.
osea65
Exactly davidat, it is fascinating the kind of childish nonsensical rhetoric that passes for journalism nowadays. Lieberman is a standup guy who, at the very least, deserves to be covered by a real journalist. Is there such a person still around?
Snertly
Perhaps Lieberman will get around to offering up something that at least sounds like a legitimate policy reason.
Though, I think if he were being honest, it would sound like "This is the position my corporate masters have paid me to take."
stjam8
Have you noticed how often this man face shows up behind who ever is giving a press conference. During the campaign there was a guy who made a point to stand behind any reporter and grin and wave, wonder if they are related. Yesterday saw him getting off a bus after the President. The man has absolutely no shame.
winston1
stjam8 You must be referring to Chuckie {camera shy} Schumer.
xlntcat
Just for the record, I know that Napatano cleaned up some the FEMA corruption perpetrated by FEMA personnel when she took over, but as of 2008 FEMA had not improved much over their Katrina performance. By the forth day, Houston citizens who had had power restored were supplying food and water for first responders after Ike wiped out Galveston. And Chernoff had the same lame excuses which were total nonsense about why FEMA wasn't prepared to respond. FEMA requries a total overhaul and house cleaning. Liberman is disgusting and should be stripped of all chairmanships.
wfleet
7000 people will die before Christmas in the Insurance Industry's War on Americans. I wonder that Lieberman doesn't think that's too much at once.
The man is tragically self-centered.
wolverine1987
And you are tragically misinformed and clearly uneducated. That statement is so stupid, partisan and ignorant it defies belief.
WaltB31
So, the truth is partisan? I guess you Fox Opinion Channel partisans don't recognize the truth when you see it. Understandable, with all the pablum you all are fed on a daily basis from FOC.
Baddchild
it must be true it came straight from a WH talking point, do we really need for it to be repeated by olberdork before it becomes a fact.... hahaha
wilbur
60% of his constituents support the public option. Is he serving their interests, or his own?
PinkoLefty
Yo, wolverine! You want to go ad hominem, fine, we can do that.
To me, the most intriguing aspect of ignorance is that the ignorant are comically unaware of their own state. The system of serfdom that you're awkwardly attempting to defend should be a source of shame to you. The rest of the world looks on at us and doesn't know whether to laugh or cry over a country as wealthy and powerful as the United States that allows its citizenry to wallow in conditions more suited to the third world than the first. The system of education that produced you is a disgrace. The healthcare system causes fevered bouts of head scratching across the globe.
Have you ever driven through West Virginia and seen some of the rundown shacks sliding down the sides of mountains that some people call homes? Have you ever driven the length of I-95 and crossed into South Carolina and seen the shattered highway strewn with so many shredded tires that it looks like a continuous stream of IED's have been detonated there with background music supplied to car radios by a wide spectrum of christian and country music to the exclusion of nearly every other art form other than the voice-over by Rush Limbaugh? Have you ever traveled through southern Georgia or Alabama and tried to have a lucid conversation with an average denizen of the region? Clearly spoken English words above three syllables won't even get you a cheeseburger from a drive-through window. Irony is futile.
Only thirty-nine percent of Americans "believe" in evolution. I wonder how many believe in gravity and how many believe that the sun is pulled across the sky each day by a team of celestial horses?
Only someone who is truly ignorant could defend the system that is enriching a tiny minority while rotting away the infrastructure and social fabric of this nation. With roads and interstates crumbling, a dilapidated electrical grid, christian madrasah day care centers masquerading as educational institutions and a health system that is fantastic until you need it, what exactly is it, of which you're so proud, that needs defending so vigorously? These things reflect on you and should be a source of shame to you. Chanting USA #1 doesn't make it even close to true.
Getting back to ad hominem... Since your screen name is wolverine1987, can I assume that you are an incredibly wizened 22 years old? Please bring us all up to speed by using your incisive reasoning powers to explain why you would name yourself after a Canadian comic book character. Never fear. If your side of the debate should happen to prevail, you may find yourself being denied health benefits at some point for some seemingly arbitrary reason, but at least your alter-ego will be covered by the Canadian health system. Then again, maybe you chose the name wolverine because you prefer communicating via anal scent instead of vocalizations.
Johnnyappleseed
You kooks on the left need to get a life and a calculator, add it up, it will bankrup our nation, notice I said our nation, not just you and the secular progressives on the lefts nation.
Picachu
If your going to make such a bold statement why don't you back it up with some facts to support your assertions? Go to Fox news web site - I'm sure that's where you get most of your information.
palecon44
wfleet &WaltB31 & etc. :
I would REALLY like some citation for that figure ("7,000 deaths" DIRECTLY tied to the Ins. Ind. refusal to pay because of........).
You can, if you would, e-mail me at ardee444@yahoo.com as well as post it here.
For those of you who are actually participating in a discussion: TY.... very interesting.
amanda07070
PinkoLefty - Reading the posts surrounding yours such as the ones from baddchild and Johnnyappleseed, full of nonsense and rantings, you are truly a breath of fresh air.
hardrain
Palecon,
I believe it was the CDC that collected the data that was turned in to the report "Health Insurance and Mortality in U.S. Adults" - that appears in the current issue of the American Journal of Public Health. This is where that 44,000 deaths/ year due to lack of health insurance comes from.
Gkenyon
I hereby nominate PinkoLefty's screed for Best. Comment. Ever.
Allguns
wfleet,
Obama Care doesn't start until 2013, if your in such a hurry ask Obama, Reid, Pelosi whats the delay? Also ask them why they aren't fixing the problems that currently effecting Health Care System, even with their plan? Then ask yourself if this is just a political power grab?
wfleet
You can find the Harvard Study which shows that 45,000 people a year similar in all other ways (weight, gender, age, disease, etc) die simply because of lack of health coverage -- which 45 million people cannot afford in this nation unless they are destitute. The Study was published in the American Journal of Public Health, but as that's subscription only, you can find info here http://tinyurl.com/l7cy8u.
360,000 Americans uselessly dead since 9-11. 7000 more Americans dead by Christmas. 19,000 more dead by Easter. Imagine writing a note of consolation to those 360,000; 7000; 19000 ruined families. Use your smart heart and your humane mind. Imagine the children without a mother or without a father. For. no. good. reason.
Pick a person in your family to die and imagine how unbearable it would be to you. What can this possibly have to do with partisanship? How sick has our national mind become that anyone could think this is partisan? Think thru the lens of the beloved community. Everyone's life is exactly as valuable to them and to their family as yours is to you.
AndreainNY
Do you really believe this? Hard to believe. I can't, actually.
Terrance72
Lieberman is the ultimate hypocrite. In addition to labeling critics of the Iraq war unpatriotic, he also chastised them as "partisan" as if their opposition to Bush's policies in Iraq were a byproduct of their party affiliation and distain for Bush rather than legitimate moral and strategic concerns. He was constantly whining about the "tone" in Washington, but strangely those complaints only seemed to be directed at his former party. Despie this, after he not only opposed Obama in the general election but was used by the Republicans in the "Zell Miller" role at their convention & Democrats were screaming for his head, Obama extended an olive branch. The ultimate act of non-partisanship. How does Joe repay him, to not only oppose Obama on the biggest initiative of his presidency, to join in a filibuster against it---pure obstruction and the ultimate act of partisanship. Its time for the President to takes the gloves off.
NorCalGladiator
I support the progress of the health care overhaul.
With that said, Let us learn from history and not use any words that came out of Sarah Palin's mouth. "Take the gloves off" obviously did their campaign well.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Give it time. Have some patience. The bill wont pass in one day. The war wont be over in one day. Only with calm, assertiveness will Obama be able to make a psychological change in the way Washington runs. It may take him 8 years, but it sure as hell wont be in one day.
Patience Kimosabe
osea65
We're only giving him three more years. Only a genuine miracle would make me change my mind about him or his devout followers.
Bergen
If Rahm and the president keep him in his chairmanship or, for that matter, in the caucus, hoping that he'll offer a helpful vote in the future, this should disabuse them, and he should join his friend McCain in the Republican caucus. Nothing he does will damage the American people or the president as much as this...which is the point. My only question is to what extent he is McCain's puppet.
wolverine1987
Predictable response. The exact same people who call Senator Stowe a "person of conscience" and the "one decent Republican" will call a Democrat doing the exact same thing (crossing lines to vote with the opposition) a "traitor." Non-partisan talk from any side is just that, talk.
WaltB31
Lieberman is protecting his wallet, not the American people.
wilbur
You listen to pundits too much.
unclelew
Lieberman is interested in only thing: himself. He sucked up to the Republicans when they were in power and then when his boy McCain lost, asked - and got - his Democratic perks back.
It's time to kick this unprincipled jackass out of the caucus.
Right now it's like an army letting one of its own mercenaries shoot its own men while a war rages.
He's a right-wing ideologue and belongs with the Republican fringe.
It's bad enough that the Democrats put up with wavering warriors like Blanche Lincoln and Ben Nelson, but Lieberman leaves no room for doubt: He's totally in the Republican camp. You know, the people who hate empathy and the middle class.
TrueRed
Interestingly, unclelew, I don't think that Lieberman is a right wing ideologue, or any kind of ideologue. The man has no political or moral principles at all. He just goes where the power/money is. In Connecticut, that's to the insurance companies.
freshhell
Senator Snowe. Not Stowe. So stow it!
noodlebrain
Joe represents all that is bad in the egocentric world of politics. He is a great argument for term limits.
Carole65
"Anything that protects the consumers, it seems, is a bridge too far for Sen Liberman". The thing is Begala's definition of protecting the consumers is to get as many people dependent on the government with huge social programs while sticking it to the taxpayers. The Democrat Congress could have extended Medicaid to the 40 (minus) Americans who can not afford health insurance and then work on making health insurance available across state lines and portable no matter where you work. Throw in some tort reform, as well as organizations and companies forming collectives, and then see if this wouldn't have some affect in reducing the cost of insurance.
I sure can't speak for Liberman, but the breath taking speed in which this administration is on a spending spree in a bad economy should give everyone pause.
WaltB31
Ask your parents or grandparents about Medicare. See if they want to trade it for private for-profit insurance.
You morons keep screaming about "depending on the federal government"; and you have no clue.
People are dying at a rate of 45000 a year because of this current insurance system.
Maybe all of you should have a young family member contract a major illness like cancer, and try to rely on your private insurance. I guarantee you will be supporting health care reform.
Carole65
Your and kord's rebuttal is the same tired old liberal talking points. Do you really think that a public option isn't going to be costly for all of the taxpayers, especially with unemployment what it is, and the fact that fewer people are paying into SS and Medicare for the baby boomers. The unfunded liability for Medicare is now around 45 billion. There has to be some kind of fiduciary responsibility before expanding the spending without considering the income for new programs, don't you think....... The credit card mentality has destroyed many families and the credit card mentality of this administration is creating a bigger problem for the American people.
Is that 45 hundred, thousand, or million people who are dying every year do to lack of health insurance? How many die every year due to quality health insurance - 0?
WaltB31
Carole65
You bring out all the tired pseudo neocon talking points about the public option being too costly. The independent Congressional Budget Office stated the Baccus bill with the public option will reduce the deficit over ten years.
This same bullsh@t rhetoric you're spewing now is typical; there was NO mention of this "fiduciary responsibility" when Bush/Cheney were bankrupting the country for the immoral Iraq oil war, and the wealthy tax cuts.
Where were you then?
This is just neocon BS and bias masquerading as rational opposition.
You people are so twisted that you are fighting something 95% of you would benefit from, just to oppose the current administration.
Why do you hate America; and more importantly why do you hate yourself?
Carole65
You know, Walt, the spending on the wars has nothing to do with the massive government social programs of this current administration. And you know that, or you would have come back with data to support your points, as well as refute my points. It's always amazing how posters like you decline to debate a point and resort to displaced hostility for those with whom you disagree. Try again...................
Snertly
Carole65, if I may disagree, you said "You know, Walt, the spending on the wars has nothing to do with the massive government social programs of this current administration."
The part I think you miss on is that the Bush/Cheney administration's social programs were primarily focused upon financial and legislative support for the richest few percent of Americans by way of tax cuts for the wealthy, and financial and legislative support for the largest corporations, in finance by only raising the interest rates when wage earners' incomes increased (Greenspan's base definition of inflation), and that group of companies commonly known as the military-industrial complex, by starting a war based on false premises and then taking steps to protract the war, such as destroying the weapons of the Iraqi army just so two years later we, US taxpayers, could buy them some more.
So, in as much as war spending helped the rich get richer, war spending is just a different kind of social program; based on the concentration of wealth, as opposed to the redistribution of wealth. Trouble is, the fewer hands that hold the wealth, the less the need for a large, vibrant, and diverse economy.
kord81
Carole65 or whatever you call yourself just STFU with your stupid and tired talking points. Please when you reach the age of 65 (or if you are already there) open your wallet and turn your Medicare card in and tell your government you don't want to depend on the government anymore.
Gosh! people are really stupid in this country, no wonder you all behind in just about everything.
Llplo99
Remember, according to a recent TDB story, the Republicans are the less educated class...explains the ignorance.
poorich13
Such a tired red herring....the point isn't whether Medicare recipients like Medicare...of course they do! Who wouldn't like free health insurance? Free entitlements are...um...popular. And the sky is blue and the sun rises in the east. What exactly is your point?
What honestly blows my mind is that people argue with a straight face that health care reforms should be modeled after Medicare. Umm...isn't this the same social program the Medicare Board of Trustees has projected will go bankrput around 2016? The same Medicare that will consume roughly 20% of our GDP by 2030? And people think it's a good idea to impart its "success" to the entire healthcare system?? I'd love to hear explanations as to how that's workable. If you got em - get at me.
AndreainNY
You really shouldn't be commenting on other's stupidity.
Whatever you call yourself.
stjam8
Buying health insurance across state lines is a red herring. Some states have stricter regulations that prevent some insurance companies from doing busiiness in their usual fashion. Meaning , taking advantage of their policy holders. The insurance companies would like these state regulations to be removed so, they can keep collecting premiums with NO intention of giving coverage. The McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945 allows insurance companies to be monopolies. This is why insurance premuims continue to go up along with your deductibles, co-pays and out of pocket expenses. Most people are under the false sense of security about their insurance. Tort reform has already been done in some states like Texas and has not been found to significantly lower costs. Since the great amount of lawsuits stem from a few doctors. The Medical community needs to police their own better. If you are a victim of an incompetent doctor, I doubt you would want a cap on your pain and suffering. Some of these medical errors can cause a life time of suffering as well as huge medical bills. Insurance Collectives would not have the power of the U.S. government to negatate prices on services and drugs.
kord81
Carole65 blah! blah! you still not making any sense. I don't care how much public option cost. This is health not a meaningless war taxpayers are still funding. Besides the last administration passed the medicare prescription drug part D without paying for it. And please can you site the source where you get your bogus 45 billion unfunded liability medicare.
P.S- calling somebody a liberal doesn't make you a conservative. This is no such thing as conservatism in this country and keep leaving in denial. There is common sense and there is stupidity.
stjam8
This is not a liberal or conservative issue, this is a Crisis for the American working class. The following is excerpts from Market Watch blog Sept. 18, please feel free to read it in entirely for yourself. News that this years premium growth for job-based family coverage came in at a relatively moderate 5% was offset by dire forecasts of what an average policy will cost 10 years from now, assuming that the atypical pattern at slower growth we've seen in the last few years continues. Premiums for a full year of family coverage increased 5% to $13,375 in 2009, with employees on average footing $3,515 of the bill and employers paying $9,860 according to a report released from the Kasier foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust. Health care costs have been gong up a couple of % points faster then economic growth since the 60's. The foundation also stated if you assume that premiums increase over the next 10 years at an average of just the last 5 years, which was an unusual moderation in health care costs, then the average premium in 2019 will be $24,000. Thats not the cadillac plan. That would be the average family premiums. In 2002 and 2003 premiums jumped 13%. The following from the American Journal of Public Health and the Harvard medical school 45,000 Americans die each year from having no health insurance. That is more then drunk driving and homicide combined. That is one every twevle minutes. This is why we need health care reform. In a few years, What average American Family will be able to afford to pay for health insurance premiums?
Picachu
Read this and your post below. So tell me Carole, how is staying with the status quo and enriching the insurance companies any kind of solution? You spout the same tired old neocon bullshit about self regulating markets good, government bad, but look around at the smoking wreckage of our economy. Your neocon bullshit has been debunked, but you are so fox news brainwashed you still spout it. Those of us who see what your policies have brought aren't buying your BS.
AndreainNY
Uh, hello? How is the government's cutting payments to doctors and hospitals, which, then, causes them to charge private insurance companies more going to reduce premiums?
Anyone who believes the insurance companies are the sole cause of rising health care costs knows little about where those costs are incurred. Try looking at doctors, hospitals, etc. They're all responsible for rising costs.
No wonder people want a public option. They don't know a thing beyond "Insurance companies are evil!"
osea65
Those of us that know the horrors of a dictatorial socialist republic don't want any part of your BS either. Liberals have no clue how to run anything, they are ill equipped for it and that makes them a threat to society.
cecil91
Joe is a rational man. He knows this healthcare reform, as given, is a pig in a poke. BO can afford to do the snail crawl on the Afghanistan decision, so Joe wants more time too. And "Time for BO to take off the gloves"? OK, then he can slap him with his five-fingered sponge.
WaltB31
OK smart guy, what's YOUR solution for the health care mess? Let me guess, you have NONE.
Pathetic.
devilsadvocate
Oh yeah, I sure was expecting to hear about the next solution to providing better medical care from nothing other than a comment posted online.
WaltB31
OK devil, I'll ask you the same question. What is YOUR solution?
You people are pathetic.
You reflexively fight something that is going to help you just because it doesn't fit in with your faux opinion channel talking points. Or is it inherent bias?
Whatever, your kind (neocons) are becoming more and more of a minority; soon you will be irrelevant.
unclelew
Yeah, Joe has had only 20 years to think about it. Another 20 just might do it.
stjam8
Joe Lieberman was for Universal Health care in 2006. Since then he has received over a million dollars from the insurance companies. For a complete list of republicans and blue dogs who received money from insurance and pharmaceuticals companies go to The Center for Responsive Potitics. Maybe the bill is a pig in a poke, but he won't even let the bill be discussed. Call and email your elected officials tell them you want at the very least a strong Public Option that forces insurance companies to compete. See my replys to Carole 65. Currently the insurance companies monoply is protected by the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945.
Glenda1976
This is not shocking, the guy has been saying he would not support healthcare taxes "right now in the middle of a recession." Wasn't Harry listening?
Johnnyappleseed
Hell no! Harry never listens.
Mixpixlix
It amazes me how many people think this administration is on a spending spree. Where were you during the last administration? This administration is at least focusing spending on US those who provide the money.
If we don't get real healthcare reform those who are so snide on this board will find themselves on the other side of the argument sooner than later. Business are dropping coverage and reducing benefits. Full time employees are seeing more of their take home pay go to insurance premiums, while deductible and copay and NON COVERED items countine to month.
As one Princeton economist say (and I paraphrase) the only people who are against health care reform are those who have yet to deal with a major illness. It's quite a wake up call.
wilbur
Amen.
freshhell
Exactly. Just as the old canard that a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a supporter of health care reform/public option, is an opponent who's had a major medical event, or has a family member who has. The ultimate in conservative "thinking"; i.e., if it doesn't happen to me and mine, it doesn't matter.
If we're not going to pass meaningful health reform, let's at least carve out a medical exemption for bankruptcy and not make people financially ruined through no fault of their own, listen to lectures about financial responsibility. It's literally the least we can do.
AndreainNY
That Princeton economist sounds like just another myopic person who believes anyone who doesn't hold his viewpoint mustn't have any experience or is too ignorant to see beyond his/her own situation.
Doesn't say much for Princeton economists.
There are many people who are against the public option (vs. health care reform) because they believe it won't do anything but expand a "broken" system.
The democrats plan does little more than cut payments to providers. Could they actually do any less? That's hardly "reform".
Zero001
And the Administration's enemies list grows.
Gkenyon
Yep. It's too bad their not as evil as you stupid, deluded pawns claim they are. I'm just sayin'...
kurtmudgeon
I know. I know. I am supposed to hate health insurance companies. I hear it everywhere. But I can't remember
why, except that they are the Target De Jure.
AndreainNY
Insurance companies are the target because theirs is the piece of this health care pie that Obama and Democrats want for the government.
All participants in health care -- ex., patients, doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies -- are responsible for rising costs. Each contributes by demanding more service or more dollars for their services/products.
And, yet... the insurance companies have been singled out. Hmmm. Can you say, "We want that business for ourselves"?
If Democrats were really interested in "reform" they'd not single out one player when so many others are also responsible for rising costs. By doing so, they ensure that costs will never come down.
stjam8
An investigation this summer by the House Energy and Commerce Committee and earlier ones by state regulators in California, New York and Connecticut, found that thousands of vulnerable and seriously ill policy holders have had their coverage canceled by many of the nations largest insurance companies without any legal basis. The Congressional committee found that 3 insurance companies alone made $300 million dollars in 5 years. The following is from the Huffington Post 9/17/09. In February 2008 a private arbitration judge in Los Angles ordered Health Net Inc. to pay more then $9 million to a breast cancer patient whoose health insurance was canceled shortly after her diagnoses and while she was under going chemotherapy. The plaintiff, Patsy Bates, a 52 year old grandmother and hair salon owner was unable to continue her chemotherpy for several months. During the case, evidence emerged that Health Net Had paid bonuses to employees to reward them based on the number of policy holders they had recinded. The judge who awarded Bates, said in his decsion," IT IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE A POLICY MORE REPREHENSIBLE THEN TYING BONUSES TO ENCOURAGE THE RESCISSION OF HEALTH INSURANCE THAT KEEPS THE PUBLIC WELL AND ALIVE!" What your insurance premium has bought many times is a false sense of security. Joe Lieberman was for Universal Health care in 2006. Since then he has received over a million dollars from the insurance industry. The Center for Responsive Politics has a complete list of the republicans and bluedogs who have received money from the insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Is your elected officials on the list? You need to call and email them, and remind that this President won with a majority on a mandate of Universal Health Care. We are the only industrialized nation without health care for all its citizens. The insurance industry is spending over a million dollars a day to Fight against health care reform, they are happy with the status quo.
winston1
Paul Begala forgot to mention that Senator Dodd is also collecting money from Conn. Insurance co., this is common knowledge, nothing new, everybody in congress have their selective doners. Paul {forehead} Begala acts like this is something new, and who cares what this little weasel has to say.
devilsadvocate
But then again, Paul forgets to mention anything that is not politically expedient to his own arguments. Lieberman upsets Paul so much, because now, moderate Dems who did not support the public option or the medical care bill in its current form, now have cover to not vote for it. Had Lieberman not done this, the moderate Dems would have been too afraid not to toe the line.
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