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Stopping the Next McVeigh
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Neo-Nazis took to the streets in Arizona and Minnesota this weekend, a new boldness that officials say echoes the homegrown terrorism of the 1990s. James Verini talks to the extremists leading the charge.
A year after President Obama's election, hate groups are feeling bolder than they have in over a decade, and their usually insular anger is beginning to spill into the public realm. This weekend, the National Socialist Movement, a neo-Nazi organization, held rallies in Arizona and Minnesota. Those demonstrations came on the heels of similar actions in Southern California, where epithet-spewing white supremacists were forced to disband by rock-throwing counter-protesters. The upsurge in visibility is more than anecdotal—law-enforcement officials are monitoring levels of agitation among extremist groups that they say are the highest since Timothy McVeigh’s deadly attack in Oklahoma City nearly 15 years ago.
The outcries of right-wing tea-partiers, death panellers, birthers, and the like are accompanied by increased activity all along the paranoid fringe.
“It’s sort of a beehive now,” says James Cavanaugh, a special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Cavanaugh was one of the agents at the standoff at David Koresh’s Waco, Texas, compound in 1993 (which McVeigh timed his terrorist act to commemorate, two years later, on April 19, 1995). Last October in Tennessee, Cavanaugh aided in the arrest of two white supremacists charged with plotting to assassinate Obama, and in 2007 he helped bring down members of the Alabama Free Militia, who were found with hundreds of hand- and rifle grenades and other explosives. The arrests had an unsettling familiarity. “We haven’t had that kind of activity since the 1990s,” Cavanaugh says.
“We believe there is a real resurgence,” adds Lieutenant David Hall, director of the Missouri Information Analysis Center, which tracks antigovernment extremist groups around the Midwest. “The atmosphere is ripe.”
So where might another McVeigh—or worse—spring from?
Experts on extremist groups say that the outcries of right-wing tea-partiers, death panellers, birthers, and the like are accompanied by increased activity all along the paranoid fringe—from radical border-patrol groups to skinheads to sovereign citizens. Two camps are particularly restive: militia enthusiasts and white supremacists; their members are seething because of the persistence of two wars and the election of a black (and Democratic) president with an ambitious agenda. The previous upsurge of antigovernment activity in the 1990s—of which McVeigh’s attack marked the apex—was set off in part by a recession and the election of a liberal president.
The Anti-Defamation League is tracking about 200 militias, up from 50 in 2002, according to Mark Pitcavage, the ADL’s director of fact finding. “The single greatest factor in the agitation is Obama. The extreme right hated George W. Bush. If they hated him, you can imagine how they feel about Obama,” Pitcavage says, adding “I see so many parallels today with 1994.”
To find out more about this, I got in touch with both a recent militia-founder and a prominent white supremacist. First, I called James Ambrose, an Idaho truck driver who last year founded the Idaho Citizens Constitutional Militia. The ICCM is not difficult to find—it’s listed in the “militia contacts” section of the Web site “A Well Regulated Militia", and his email is listed on ICCM’s site. Ambrose, 34 and unmarried, is a veteran of the Army, in which he served as an artillery specialist, though not in Iraq or Afghanistan. (He was stationed in Korea and Fort Bragg.) He says the ICCM now has 40 members, about half of them veterans. Their “first muster” will be in the spring. In the meantime, Captain Ambrose, as he prefers to be called, and his troops keep in close touch and try to recruit more members.
Ambrose said he started the militia because he “felt something needed to be done with the direction the government has taken. Not in the sense that we’d ever go to war with government, but I felt Idaho should have a militia. It was the strongest statement I could make.” I asked him what he meant. “I formed it to defend Idaho if it wants to secede. If Idaho decides it no longer wants to be part of the United States, we back that decision.” Why would Idaho want secede? “I think we’re headed in a direction of totalitarianism,” he said. As evidence of this slide Ambrose mentioned George W. Bush’s No Child Left Behind Act, and, of course, health-care reform. (“The crazy groups are trying to latch onto the legitimate issues. They exploit them,” the ATF’s Cavanaugh explains.)
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Jacob Bernstein is a senior reporter at The Daily Beast. Previously, he was a features writer at WWD and W Magazine. He has also written for New York magazine, Paper, and The Huffington Post.
Sarah Drops the Act
Tina Brown is the founder and editor-in-chief of The Daily Beast. She is the author of the 2007 New York Times best seller The Diana Chronicles. Brown is the former editor of Tatler, Vanity Fair, The New Yorker, and Talk magazines and host of CNBC's Topic A with Tina Brown.
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Duff McDonald is a contributing editor at New York magazine and a former contributing editor at Condé Nast Portfolio. His book, Last Man Standing, about Jamie Dimon, chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, was published by Simon & Schuster in October.
Liberal propaganda piece written to equate tea-party protestors to nazi's.A truly shameful display of journalism.Trying to take attention from the actual threat of militant islam,as displayed yesterday at Fort Hood.Thirteen dead,where's the outrage?I'm not saying Nazi's aren't horrible, but I wonder if this author is furiously researching a article on islamic sleeper cells in our country? I seriously doubt it.That wouldn't fit in with the lefts agenda.
Despite Gameon's idiocy, he has a point. Tea Party protesters may share a hatred of big government with these loons, but to associate the two is like associating Islam with the shootings at Fort Hood -- a lazy generalisation that marginalises the majority (moderate islam and moderate anti-government protesters).
On the article -- I wonder if the political success of 9/11 for anti-American Islamists is grasped by those on the militant far-right, and whether that might encourage them. After all, very few terrorist attacks on America prompted ideological success or even outright compliance with demands up until 9/11.
kayjay - Are you saying a domestic terror attack by the militant far-right would benefit the militant far-right? In the way that Al-Qaeda benefited from 9/11.
Al-Qaeda was playing to a huge audience outside of the United States, many of whom if not in agreement with the method and the causality count were still in sympathy to Al-Qaeda's goals and America's humiliation\comeuppance.
Here in the United States there would be some, in the low thousands or high hundreds (I am guessing) would be in agreement and in sympathy, but the vast majority of the population, whatever their political leanings, excepting perhaps Joe Wilson, would be in favor of hunting such individuals down like animals, even if it meant invading Idaho.
It's way past my bed time (waiting for happy news about some servers with expired certificates) so maybe I am not getting what you are trying to say.
But that misses the point. Islam can't help being associated with the base shootings. The fact that the guy was muslim was intrinsic to the stresses he was apparently subjected to and to his feelings about being deployed.
whipmawhopma
kayjay - Are you saying a domestic terror attack by the militant far-right would benefit the militant far-right? In the way that Al-Qaeda benefited from 9/11.
________________________________
*** But it's irresponsible, not to mention downright laughable, to even mention Tea Party protesters in the same breath with neo-Nazis.
Gameon is right -- James Verini is simply doing a "Hey, everybody, look over there" in hopes of taking attention away from the Fort Hood massacre and the blatant Islamic terrorism behind it.
Verini seems intent on whipping up fear and loathing over an imagined backlash that hasn't even occurred, except perhaps among tiny fringe elements of society that no one takes seriously anyway.
Let's put our priorities where they belong -- on mourning our murdered soldiers and expressing our justifiable outrage over the worst Islamic terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11.
We should also demand to know what policy of political correctness prevented the military from booting out a guy who reportedly had tried to proselytize his patients with the tenets of Islam, had stated he was "a Muslim first and an American second," and had claimed that Islamic suicide bombers were as heroic as men who throw themselves on grenades to save fellows soldiers.
Hasan should have been booted out of the military just as surely as any major who professed agreement with Hitler's treatment of the Jews would have been considered a traitor in World War II.
As for worrying about the Tea Partiers, get a grip. They're not in any way extremists -- simply average Americans exercising their First Amendment right (ooh, freedom of speech, what a scary concept!).
Some of these Tea Party protesters look about as fearsome as your average Walmart greeter. And as for perpetrating violence and destruction, there's been more of that by SEIU union goons ... not to mention the young liberal losers who went on a vandalizing spree at the G-20 protests in Pittsburgh.
So ... nice try, Mr. Verini, but after several disrupted Islamic terrorism plots on U.S. soil and a tragically successful one at Fort Hood, this country should be less concerned about the next Timothy McVeigh than the next Mohammed Atta.
Right wing believers are considered dangerous because they also believe and exercise their right to bare arms. That wont make them all criminals. This is far from true, they are responsible citizens just like you.
Tell me what law the above mentioned "Nancy Genovese" broke. I see none, not one law was broken, so how do you justify her arrest and slander?
The biggest threat to America today is the Unemployed. They are dangerous and should be rounded up. Look at that Florida guy. Do you know how many Unemployed there are, your neighbour may be one, and you might not even know. Idle hands make do the devil's work.
Make hands idle work the devil's do.
The unemployed are dangerous and should be rounded up? How's the weather in Idaho today?
I hope your comment satirical in nature. But, the biggest threat to our economic recovery is the lack of jobs and the erosion of our manufacturing base. The first stimulus package is only now beginning to have a substantial impact. We need a second package geared to jobs and infrastructure only to go into effect as when the first package is spent. There is a real risk of another recessionary dip unless we get more people back to work.
Anyone who doesn't realize that the single largest terrorist threat America faces today is of the domestic, fringe right wing breed is an idiot. How many killings and arrests have already happened since Obama has been elected? Quite a few. Yes, they've been small and isolated, but they are a harbinger for what is to come. If government officials are saying that this looks like 1993, that is nuts. If someone demolished a Federal building, killed 168 people, and injured over 680 people simply because a Democrat was in office during a recession..... can anyone imagine what the same nutjobs are thinking now that a black, more ideologically liberal, foreign named President is in office? Factor in a worse recession and the mainstreaming of conspiracy-themed talking heads such as Beck or Bachmann to egg them on, and you've got a damn lethal combination. Islamic terror groups are in tatters, they've been caught off guard by Obama. Ninety percent of their war is in perception, and Obama has countered anti-Americanism in the world and cut their fundraising and recruiting ability out from under them.
Calm down it is obvious to all the teabaggers are paid shills funded by the criminal Dick Army and currently the monopolistic insurance industry. People who have jobs and actually pay taxes don't spend the summer traveling around the country.
Now if you want to talk about the Neo-nazis that followed Palin around until McCain shut her down that is an entirely different story,
You cannot call this a propaganda piece while these groups exist and hold public rallies. Yes, they are the militia piece of the Tea Baggers. The ATF and Homeland Security have the difficult job of keeping tabs on these cowards. They are filled with hate and driven by drama. They take advantage of the lowest common denominator of American society. These people are easily inflamed by Beck, Bachmann, and Limbaugh.
I am confident that federal agencies have these fools in their sights. It only takes one or two who have not surfaced to cause a domestic terrorist attack to make 9/11 look dwarfed by comparison.
What a terrible response by gameon, as if every article on the website must express outrage at Fort Hood.
Where is the equation of "tea-party protestors to Nazis"?
"I wonder if [gameon] is furiously researching a article on islamic sleeper cells in our country? I seriously doubt it."
Fifth paragraph,it helps to read the article before you comment on it.
Well that's hardly a comparison but the omission of cited "expert" sources is always specious. However, it's not really that much of a stretch to see parallel increased activity between the two groups as they both have rabid hatred for Obama and the Democratic agenda.
The article doesn't "equate" tea-party protesters with Nazis. It only says the tea party/birther phenomenon are "accompanied" by increased activity of the "paranoid fringe". Saying A is accompanied by B doesn't equate A and B. The paragraph says something unremarkable -- when you have an upsurge in loud protests of conservatives, you would probably expect that the dangerous folks way out there might feel angered by the same issues and emboldened by what appears to be support.
Reading the article isn't suffient. You have to understand it.
Thefreelance:Here's the breakdown for ya.The exact line reads;"Experts on extremist groups say that outcries of right-wing tea-partiers,death panelers,birthers and the like are accompanied by increased activity ALL ALONG THE PARANOID FRINGE ,from radical border guard groups to skinheads to sovereign citizens."
He obviously lumps all these groups together as all being along the paranoid fringe.How is fighting a very real Gov. takeover of my health care paranoid and on the fringe?How is protecting our border paranoid?I think those two things are in no way extremist and are infact mainstream, growing movements.This is an obvious strategy by libs. to discredit good Americans who are for small government.I would even go as far as saying the writer is paranoid for seeing evil in all who oppose the Pres.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE BEING CALLED ON YOUR PROPAGANDA THEN STOP WRITING IT!
There is shock and horror with the loss of lives at Ft. Hood. But how many federal workers and children were murdered by conservative hero, Tim McVeigh at the Federal Building in Oklahoma City? The tragedy in Ft. Hood has more to do with our stressed troops than the biggoted rationale of conservatives.
Why did the shooter shout "allahu akbar" as he massacred our soldiers?BECAUSE HE IS AN ISLAMIC TERRORIST! We have entire countries of militant islamists shouting "death to america" but you cowards focus on a few skinheads.You can't beat conservatives with logical arguments so you libs do crap journalism in an attempt to associate an honest grassroots protest org.,the tea-party,with a bunch of dirtbag bigots.This article is first grade liberal propaganda followed up by inane liberal comments.But I have come to expect that from the left.
Gameon-
"Allah Akbar" should not be equated with terrorism. In this case it was probably an exclamation of faith and fear, not anger. Just because he was muslim, does not mean this was a case of terrorism. He was just a scared frustrated individual, like the florida shooter or columbine shooters. psychaotic, but not a terrorist. Besides, white christians like the skinheads and others, have been more responsible for death and terrorism thoughout history than muslims ever have been. Should we start arresting people who praise God?
Miles29-
The stereotype is that Muslim Crazies who blow themselves up and kill people like to shout "Allah Akbar" and as we know, all stereotypes are based on some amount of truth!
It brings to mind the airline pilots a couple of years back who shouted "Allah Akbar" into the voice recorder right before they flew a plane full of passengers into the Pacific Ocean.
What you have said sounds like the ever lasting childhood excuse, "The dog ate my homework"
In other words your reason for shouting "Allah Akbar" before proceeding to kill as many people as you can is ridiculous and outrageous!
You wouldn't be one of those Muslim crazies yourself, are you? Or, just an apologist.
Oh please! Could you be more dramatic? Sometimes people write articles about one topic while others write about other topics. This is called journalism. This is not meant as any kind of liberal conspiracy to promote a certain belief. No one is equating teabaggers to Nazi's the way teabaggers equate Obama with Hitler. The from page of Daily Beast offers you a chance to click on stories focused on "militant islam." If you want to read about that, just click and read on my friend. Now just one more pointer: If you click on a story about Jon Gosselin don't expect to read a diatribe about islam....that is just not how it works. Good luck.
What a timely article.
Just last week a man who may have been an American Born
Islamic Terrorist murders and maims . . . and what do we get . . .
" Stopping the Next McVeigh "
If only the liberal press had the balls to say . . . " Stopping the Next Hasan. "
Exactly. There's such a shortage of hate, fear, intolerance and ignorance in this country. Let's demonize all Muslims--that will help us turn Iraq and Afghanistan into stable nations.
There are three articles on this website about the current Hasan, one about the next McViegh. Both are issues, both need to be reported on. There is legitamate fear of both.
If you are looking for anti-Islamic screeds there are plenty of them all over the internet. This article was about White supremacy--a totally different sort of terrorism. From your comment, sounds like you were browsing in the wrong section.
Excellent article. There are deep and growing connections between the tea-party protesters, Glenn Beck's paranoid America, and violent fringe groups. Anyone who was paying attention this summer knows that. There needs to be a follow up on this, especially the supremacist plots to kill Obama. Revealing and disgusting.
its time to get these racist pricks under control! i happen to be Asian living in Arizona, i know exatly what the author is expressing in this article! as much as right-wingers like to dismiss anything coming from their side of the political spectrum, and yes NEO-NAZI's are far right-wingers which can be understood by anyone who has an encyclopedia, it should be easy now to see why minorities vote Democrat and consider many Conservatives racist! why the hell would we want to vote for a party that makes excuses and many times over are endorsed by White Nationalist groups and militias?
I have even head Fox News try to play this Nazi crap down all the way up until the shooting at the holocaust museum, and then Shep Smith somberingly stating that Fox and the right-wing should never had laughed of the reports of racist right-wing violence to come, which i might add came from a report that was investigated publish by the Bush Administration during 2008, not President Obama!
Anyone who thinks somehow these lunitics are just going to fade away is either racist themselves and don't care what they do, or is too stupid to see the danger in bunch of drunk hardcore racist starting their own little state by state armies with an anti-gay, anti-black, anti-hispanic, anti-asian, anti-semetic, anti-muslim, anti-immigration, anti-feminist and pretty much anti-everything that not white christian male agenda, with absolutely no one to answer to but themselves!
we all know they pose no threat of truly taking over, atleast not without the help of silly weak minded Conservatives who for the past 30 years have pandered to these people amd encouraged their anti-government mentality, all in the name of getting votes and staying in office! as much as Neo-Cons try to say they don't agree with rasisim, all you ahve to do is got to a White Nationalist, KKK, or Neo-Nazi website and read their well placed political agenda to see that they agree follow the same wedge issues and ideaology down to the letter!
-They are against immigration, not becuase it was an illegal act but becuase they are afraid of the idea that whites won't be the majority one day!
-They consider Obama a "wake up call" to whites, not becuase of his political agenda, but becuase he is black and catering to everyone in the country of all races, not just one!
-They are against Muslims building places of worship and being recognized in this country as Americans, becuase world wide Islam is the #1 religion with converts of all races, while Christianity is slowly losing its battle with Atheisim! (which i might add no other religion is attemping to fight or make a big deal of but Christians and the Zombies the worship Fox News's Anti-athiest stance)
-They are anti-abortion not becuase they respect the lives of children, but becuase the birth-rates among whites in America and Europe are at an all time low and they blame abortion, interracial relationships, immigrants in their fear of being out-bred in countries they feel a false sense of ownership of including ours!
-They are against social programs based on no other standered except that they don't want their tax dollars helping anyone thats not white! even though government records of individual numbers broken down by race, there are more Whites on welfare than there are black who come in second, while asians and hispanics take the least from welfare!
-They are anti-media becuase they feel its all controled by jews, and were the first to coin the phrase "Jew-Media" which is now used by in common by many Republicans and Neo-Cons!
and this list of political identifiers among White Nationalist groups and Conservatives goes on and on and on! the only differance is one is lighter on the racisim but refuses to openly throw the other under the bus, but is instead pushing their political party more to the right in semi-silent agreement for the sake of keeping power!
as for the guy above claiming this artical is meant to hide the threat of radical islam, the gunman in texas was working on his own, not as part of some vast radical muslim agenda! he may have said some radical crap, but just like a single neo-nazi in a holocuast museum he planned and acted on his own! so when you bring me proof of a string of well organized muslim cells or armed Islamic Nationalist militia here in the U.S., then i will agree with you that they pose anywhere close to a similar threat as these racist uneducated rednecks and hillbillies throwing their guns and weight around...lol!
You sound angry. Ever think about starting your own militia?
You could hate the hate-groups, you could hate the GOP, you could hate on Christians, and best of all, you could hate on FOX News! Hell, just hating on FOX alone is enough to get everyone on this website to join you.
It is offensive to equate the twisted religious right with the teachings of Christ. From their inception the evangelicals have been about amassing wealth and power at the expense of the nation.
Khnum21:You covered all the bases and are right on. I only wish you hadn't ended with lol
because this is no laughing matter. It is deadly serious.
I agree that Khnum21hit the nail on the head perfectly.Too perfectly I'm afraid. If anyone thinks there is no correlation between the Tea Party folks and Neo Nazi groups, they are idiots and not worth arguing with. This is gonna come back and bite us in the butt big time real soon!
It's not fair to label all the "Tea Party" folks with the fringe, but many of them seem to be right out there -- check out some of the signs they wave around. For the ones who really are protesting the deficits, where were they for the eight years before Obama?
I think the extreme right the liberal propaganda piece is always needed to be written as long as insecure white men want to promote racial & religious tensions.We all know what the price of turning a blind eye is with these people.
If you feel tea party protesters are been compared unfairly as extreme right wing thugs, perhaps it is about time Tea baggers looked at what they are saying & why people are thinking this ? Perhaps they think they are talking Bollocks?
As for the militant Islam sleeper cells , i am sure if they are about they will be found from excellent police work that has kept this country safe since 9/11. Also they are just as dangerous as militia enthusiasts & skinhead groups ?
It is unfair to turn the tragic events at Fort Hood as a excuse to turn on the peace loving Muslims who live in America. Every time a kid from a white christian family goes and shoots up a school i do not see Christians scapegoated & blamed ? unless they are committing terrorist acts on Doctors who perform abortions , or even if they go crazy and shoot up a Holocaust museum.
Islam promotes the killing of "infidels",christianity does not.It is a rare thing for a muslim leader to condemn violence from the radical fringe of their religion.On the other hand christians do not promote violence,imagine the outrage if the pope was to praise a suicide bomber! In Islam thats a common practice.
The reason you don't see a link made between white shooters at school and christianity is because they don't walk into school and shout"Jesus is great" and start shooting kids,this is an Fundamental Islamic tradition.
Dr. George Tiller , Dr. John Bayard Britton , David Gunn was not killed by a Fundamental Islamic tradition?
Don't Pro life have strong links to Christians rather than Fundamental Islamic's?
O.k.,I tell you what ,you list all the abortion doctors that have been killed by right-wing nut jobs in the name of Jesus and I'll list all the americans who have been killed by Islamic Jihadists.I hope you have a lot of time,I got about 5,000 names right off the top of my head.
And I really doubt any Christian leaders of any merit came out in support of abortion clinic bombings,and if they did they would immediately be condemned by Christians.
Christians tend not to justify the murder of innocent people,in Islam though that's your ticket to heaven and 70 virgins.It's a religion of hate and violence.
Christianity (like most organized religions) promotes all KINDS of killing for MANY reasons. Have you read your bible lately?
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be PUT TO DEATH. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should NOT let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be PUT TO DEATH for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be PUT TO DEATH by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be PUT TO DEATH. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be BURNED TO DEATH. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and EVERYONE WHO WOULD NOT SEEK THE LORD, the God of Israel, was to be PUT TO DEATH, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and COMPLETELY DESTROY ALL ITS INHABITANTS, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you SECRETLY SERVE OTHER GODS, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, BUT KILL HIM. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Make ready to SLAUGHTER his sons FOR THE GUILT OF THEIR FATHERS; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
and finally this verse gives reason for the Christian crusades...
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
The next time, know what the bible promotes before you deny that it promotes it.
By the way, the Vatican knew Jews were being persecuted by the Nazis. "For the first few years persecution seems to have caused few ripples at the Vatican and awakened no more interest or sympathy than in the 1930s. Church diplomats continued to speak in favor of "justice and charity", but were largely unconcerned about the persecution of Jews by Nazi or collaborationist governments. A striking illustration comes from the autumn of 1941, when the French Ambassador to the Holy See, L鯮 Berard, sent an extensive report to Vichy on the Vatican's views. According to this diplomat the Holy See was not interested in the French antisemitic laws and worried only that they might undermine Church jurisdiction or involve occasional breaches of "justice and charity". So far as the French were concerned, the Vatican essentially gave them a green light to legislate as they chose against Jews."
That rips to shreds your hypothetical scenario of the Pope praising a suicide bomber. He may not have, but the whole of the Vatican (and many members of the Catholic clergy) looked the other way while an entire ethnicity and various other classes of people were persecuted unmercifully.
Unapologetic,this is one of the lamest retorts ever.Your quoting old testament to me.Jesus established a whole new set of rules and did away with the old ways.Thats why he's the New Testament.You know what two religions are based mainly on the old testament?Islam and Judaism.
As far as your suspicious ,unknown book quote,the only thing being ripped to shreds is my patience.You can try to blame the holocaust on christians ,but the pope had no real power during that period,they were trying to survive like everybody else.But do you know who actually allied themselves with Nazi's during World War ll?Militant Islam.Al husseini the Imam of the Al Aqsa mosque was supported financialy by the nazi's through Adolf Eichman.That same Imam went on to inspire the founding of the P.L.O,a terrorist organization.It's a fact.They shared a common hatred of the jews.
You should spend your time studying history instead of typing the Old Testament.
Oh, and if you doubt that Islam is violent,Google" Islamic beheading" and spend some quality time watching fundamental Islam at work.
And then there's Islam's treatment of women.How could you possibly defend a "religion" that treats women like animals? They have to wear a blanket over their head for goodness sake!
I live in upstate N.Y. On my way to the market with my son and a friend of his.... we passed a local highway where these people: teabaggers, birthers, anti-healthcare, anti-Obama...(who even knows what their against) were protesting,..their message is all over the place...they had American flags...there were about 30 of them...mostly old, ALL white, ....you know the look...I went in to a Burger King right next to where they were protesting...and I swear, the looks they gave us (we are not white) was really scary....They are the meanest bunch of losers I have ever seen. As an African-American I have seen that look before.. I hurried up and ordered my food and got out of there..Anyone who dares to say this isn't about Obama's race, is kidding themselves, as a woman I felt if I had of dared say one thing wrong or against them they would have attacked me...yes, these old hateful azz white folks...one thing I know for certain...I don't believe the average white American wants to be affiliated with these people...they are extremely bad for America...I keep saying this and I will continue...they look like a piece out of American history...they look EXACTLY like the people that tried to stop integration in the South...very ugly!!!!!
"you know the look"
"the looks they gave us (we are not white) was really scary"
"They are the meanest bunch of losers I have ever seen"
"I have seen that look before"
"Anyone who dares to say this isn't about Obama's race, is kidding themselves, as a woman I felt if I had of dared say one thing wrong or against them they would have attacked me"
"they look EXACTLY like the people that tried to stop integration in the South...very ugly!!!!!"
Hmm. You can tell a lot just by looking at people lady. Thank goodness you are so wise and God forbid that anyone should ever judge you by your looks the same way.
I am white and they scare as well as disgust me.
What is all the talk about equating Tea Buggers with Nazis? Isn't it self evident?
Oh, how scary,white people! You must have been terrified. Why waste time asking what they were protesting against,just use your superior, liberal open mindedness to judge them by the color of their skin! Hopefully everybody will learn to be as "progressive" as you Dems.,then we'll all be able to be judgemental, Intellectual cowards ,unable to see anything other than race and our own irrational hate of anyone who disagrees with our point of view.
The Democratic party is the home of racism,classism,socialism,communism and now ,a new more pathetic philosophy"Obamanism"!
don't forget nazism, pessimism, feminazism, post-modernazism, obamoptimism, and the dreaded baptism.
Wow! The pic accompanying this article looks just like a meeting of Young Republicans.
I was a young republican once, a long, long time ago. I have been concerned about the actions of the lobbyists for the corporations using the tactics of the big lie and activating the lunatic fringe of the conservative right to supress debate on health care and other conservative issues with the tacit approval of most of the leaders of the remains of the once Grand Old Party. This is facism, not republicanism. It brings out the worst in people, and does encourage people with violent tendencies.
If the title of this article is "Stopping the Next McVeigh", where are the proposed solutions/preventative measures for dealing with the problem? Otherwise, you should have called it, "Chatting It Up with the White Supremacists, Etc.".
This article was far from complete and didn't really have a good point other than "here, look at these interesting anti-government people I talked to"... it was either ill-titled or ill-compiled...
It actually was very interesting, just sort of pointless in light of the title.
Looks like Becks chickens are coming home to roost. Fox news is really benefitting us all with their use of the publics air waves to keep the memory of Nazis and Hitler right out there with Washington and Jefferson. Since President Obama has been elected, Fox has ratcheted up its use of the lingo these wounded minds crave. Yeah their ready for war and they have been absolutely incited by the media.
The Conservative Domestic Terrorists are a small, bitter group of uneducated and undereducated racists. Their agenda of hate and fear is attractive to the white, rural, racist poor who are feeling the effects of the recession and need to scapegoat any minority that is most unpopular. They are no different than the early Nazis. Tim McVeigh is their folk hero. They are are eager to use their guns and accumulated weapons on average Americans. Just like McVeigh, they would give little consideration to killing children. They are misdirected and think that they can easily take down our federal government. They are not patriots, but cowards.
The military has not adequately responded to the growth of hate groups in its midst. As a result, we have the military actually training white supremacists! Investigations need to include those at the highest levels of the military.
This is an argument for converting all local and state law enforcement agencies to federal agencies under the executive branch. Local police/law enforcement agencies could and should be first responders in the case of attacks by Conservative Domestic Terrorists. They need to be trained and maintain a high level of readiness.
I think Moore has some movie fodder.
He is not going to make more movies. Sad, but true.
On first hearing of people like Todd Palin and Gov. Perry with their secessionist movements, my first thought is to just give them Mississippi or Oklahoma so these whackos can be happy. Let them see if they can make it without us.
However I automatically think back on Lincoln's opinion that the Union must be preserved at all thoughts and I think of all the brave American's who gave their lives bringing down the cowardly confederates.
The last thing we need is a small, land-locked country filled with uneducated and undereducated fools without leadership. We do not need a tribe of anarchists with weapons bent on terrorism to extend their agenda. I can imagine their government would be a Christian theocracy that stones women for adultery but not men. I can imagine that they would encourage polygamy and forced marriages of girls of 11 and 12. I can imagine their women being forced to become full time mothers of 14 kids all educated by their computer at home. I can imagine theirs being a country with no diversity. Sooner or later only those with blond hair and blue eyes will be tolerated. They will not teach science or geography. Their history books will be filled with stories of Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed and Washington throwing coins across the Potomac when he was not chopping down cherry trees. Teachers will be burned at the stake. Lawyers beheaded. Boys at the age of 8 would be sent to the military. There would be no zoning laws and no clean water laws. Hospitals would no longer have doctors and nurses but faith healers. Libraries would not be needed... most books would be banned. They would quickly squander away all resources. In a few years, they would trying to sneak across the border into the USA where a huge wall would greet them.
The Reuglican Utopia
You sound just as crazy as these other wackos.
"Let them see if they can make it without us." Who are you? What service do you provide that nobody could live without?
Sure, these extreme groups are wackos but some of the responses on this thread are just as batty.
What everyone forgets is that the more things change the more they stay the same. Will Obama turn America into a Socialist country? Of course not. Will these extreme groups take over Nebraska and leave the union? Not a chance. People run their mouths to hear themselves talk and we all freak out as if they can back their words up. Lame.
The White supremacists don't call themselves, the Nationalist Socialist Movement for nothing! They are the socialists... not President Obama. The white supremacists are a hate group and should be behind bars and their guns taken away. They threaten our democracy.
"They ran through the briars and the ran through the brambles,
and they ran through the bushes where a rabbit wouldn't go.
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch them..."
I believe in free speech but not in hate speech. It is comforting to see that the cowardly, white supremaicsts were scared and confused when confronted by Patriotic counter-demonstrators. This emphasizes the weakness and lack of organization on the part of the white supremacists. May they stay put behind the woodwork until we bring out the Raid! LOL
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
The hate rhetoric from the right wing lunatics is what is driving this anti-government movement. It did back in the early 90's. Hate rhetoric is like an addiction to a lot of these people. They feed their sick paranoid fantasies off it. In order to be a right winger you have to be paranoid. I think it's a mental disease in a lot of these people. So many of them cross the line from normal into insane paranoid delusions that defy all reasonable logic. I am a firm believer in the freedom of speech but a lot of this speech crosses the line into being completely irresponsible and destructive. The biggest thing that could help in this country would be to bring back truth in the media. Where a lot of these people are forced to prove what they are saying before they say it. They just can't spew their hatred at will. That is going to destroy us if something isn't done.
The members of the National Socialist Movement are the socialists, yet they have been calling the president a socialist for the past year. These people are afraid of themselves!
I can't believe they have a site on the Internet! It is amazing that they don't have membership in all states and not just the Red states!
Just as Janet Reno and our great FBI mowed down the rebellious rabble of 15 years ago, let's hope that Attorney General Holder and the ATF and Homeland Security can eradicate these current hate mongers! Of course, a few counter-demonstrators is enough to scare them away.
"National Socialist Movement are the socialists" WRONG! They are neo-Fascist white supremicists . Just check out their website. It is filled with anti-semitism and their "flag" has a big swastika in the middle of it.
http://www.nsm88.org/ "Party Membership is open to non-Semitic heterosexuals' of European Descent."
Here's the nucleus of this scariness: "Two camps are particularly restive: militia enthusiasts and white supremacists; their members are seething because of the persistence of two wars and the election of a black (and Democratic) president with an ambitious agenda."
How ironic is it that the militia movement is arming itself because it doesn't want the two wars we are in that the Neocons started!
As for the blatant racism of white supremisists, what can one say about their inability to credit any non-white with intelligence, leadership, vision?
When I read articles like this, I hope fervently that the FBI is vigilant 24 x 7 and that they are recruiting people WAY smarter than the wingnuts in this article.
If all conservatives are responsible for McVeigh or Tiller, then all anti-war liberals are responsible for the anti-war guy at Ft Hood and the one earlier this year.
Oh please- the average voter can't stand the government- they think most politicians are crooks. They hate paying taxes and don't want to bother with some bureaucratic bullshit- so your going to blame anti-government issues on a specific group. "The far right hated G.W.Bush"- every once in awhile I wonder about him, and if refused to give rights to specific minorities in order to keep "them" happy? Its always difficult to believe that the Ivy league school graduate is a narrow minded bigot and his wife who resided over the arts wanted censored paint by number collections to express the U.S.'s creative individuals. Who knows. It will be nice when this country is run by diplomats and not politicians and the events of defining rights and personal issues by the government ends entirely.
I have a problem with the media not naming these groups for what they are, "White Supremacist"
These people are "White Supremacist"!
http://www.blackpowercartel.com/
Equating the center to tea partiers, birthers, and worse neo nazi's smacks of the kind of BS which emit from countries who feed their populace lies. There have always been radicals on both sides. Waiting for an essay on the radicalism of the extreme left but truly I am sure I will never read it here.
Hate to tell you but there are millions to the center of both the left and right. The mainstream media wish to lump us all together so we will shut up. Our voices will be heard, make no mistake. We are the majority aside from the extreme left, the birthers, the tea partiers and most certainly neo-nazi's.
Furthermore what this article is insinuating beside the obvious is a measure to take the oneness off the terror attack at Ft. Hood. Inside I am laughing for there is surely no political correctness or halting to rush to judgement in the case of calling anyone who disagrees with Obama a radical.
This article is not only dishonest but an a- moral hyperbole of the worst kind.
Wrong. This article has nothing to do with the unfortunate incident at Ft. Hood. Of course, bigots have their own spin on the truth.
This article relates to the rallies being held this weekend by the Nationalist Socialist Movement, aka neo-Nazis. It is not Obama, but the Nazis, by their own admission who are the socialists!!!! One thing of interest is that these cowards run when confronted by counter-demonstrators!!!!!
I would even take it one step further, look at the pathetic souls in this quick picture accompanying the article. You're right in suggesting that this behavior has less to do with Pres. Obama; it has everything to do with self-loathing - lost in society, trying to find their way, and one way is too make up scenarios in which "we'll feel better about ourselves as we hate others"....wow, what a way to live.
I swear squarey ,every post of yours looks the same to me,you start with the "bigot" line,the "obama's not a socialist the nazi's are" thing ,oh and the "they ran when confronted by counter-protestors"bit.Some pretty tired and lame arguements.But their not "arguements" per se,more along the lines of an outburst a teenager would make when they don't get what they want.
Calling people bigots makes liberals feel all warm and self-righteous inside.
Like a child with their blanky,you cling to your anger and hate to justify your own inadiquacies.Your intolerance of differing opinions is the very definition of "bigotry".
Come on DB, how about a story on the following:
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/
Look hard.
These people are Anal Orfices. Every one should be drafted. sent to Guam, for 2 years boot camp.
Thank you.
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