Wow, how artfully put. Why couldn't you come up with a less racially-loaded choice of cliche, like maybe Obama's not fit to slice Cheney's watermelon or to breakdance on Cheney's cardboard box? Thank God idiots like you are dying out in this country. The best part is that you're probably as anti-gay as you are anti-black, and here your hero has a lesbian daughter (can't win 'em all, I guess). Oh, and he left office with America on the verge of disaster on just about every front imaginable, domestic and foreign. I guess that was all someone else's fault, though.

Gee, johnwr3, I thought you would be happy to have a black man gainfully employed.

Nothing like a little racist innuendo, is there, johnwr3?

You guys are idiots,of course you think it's a racist comment ,you're racist's.When you hear the phrase "Shine shoes" you immediately think about black people.Nice stereotype to walk around with in your heads.

"shine his shoes" is racist now? You people are pathetic. No debate, just shout RAYYYYYYYYYYCIST when you hear something you don't like.
As for me, there are things I don't like about Cheney, like the way he allowed companies he was associated with to profit from the war effort, but by god, every speech I've heard from him, especially in this new, bright Obamaera, makes me nearly weep that he is no longer our VP. And, no, I'm not a republican (just a relatively newly-minted conservative thanks to Obama, Pelosi and Reid) and no, I am not an "uneducated redneck" (two degrees from Oxford - BA and MA) and no, I'm not at all kidding.

President Obama doesn't do shoes you idiot!

Hey, guys, "Black shoeshine boy" is a classic racial stereotype.

Too bad, gameon and Dixiemink.

Uh ,ya Alan ,for racists it is.

I guess you would know then, gameon.

Another stunning comeback Al.

I save my best ones for you, gameon.

Hey poison-oak..

This time I absolutely agree with you...

Better the task of cleaning up all of BHOs crap is left in the hands of brown nosed sycophants like yourself.

MosDefaPunk
You should know crap. You need to wipe your mouth with toilet paper every time you speak. You need to wipe your keyboard with it every time you post.

Hey wrightswrong54....

You're a mess...I'm sure you believe you're cast in life is to be right there with poison-oak, sucking up BIG TIME.

MosDefaDork - That would be "your" cast in life. You're means you are. As in you're such a Cheyney. Good night loser con.

Hey soph....

Not for nothing, but thats a lame attempt at proffering an ever weakening bit of trivia... Besides, one could now say similar of your dude ..... but why bother? Better to reject such triteness by begging the question of any sane man, "for what and to what avail?" Come back with something salacious at this point if you really wanna get down and roll in the dirt.

sophia5...well said. ImNoPUNK do you know the meaning of the word "trivia?"

Being a coward isn't trivial.

MosDefapunk
You're a real Cheyney ... fan?
Not much going on upstairs there huh?

ImNoPUNK: "Besides, one could now say similar of your dude ..... but why bother?"

Hate to break it to you, but the draft was over by the time Obama was of age, so he needed no deferments, so the same thing couldn't be said of Obama, unless someone was just too stupid to know reality.

Hey "Emmazon" ... triva = petty.... By this point the case you're trying to make is indeed trival... As are you.

Hey "wrightswrong54"... D.O.B.1954, correct? T-minus 945 years till the effects of the einsteinium wear off .... How you coming along with that "Dick n Jane" reader, have you figured out who Spot is yet?

Hey "meglon78"... like others of your flock, you too selectively read.... I said similar, and last time I checked, similar is not identical...Bummer!!!

Had the 3 of you bothered to digest the rest of what I said, you'd understand I suggested we all give the rancor a rest ....I should have known better than to expect different from your lot..... It's gotta suck to be you.

Well Frenchy,

On the economy, he signed a huge pork laden payoff to the Democrat constituencies across the nation (Without even reading it). 780 Billion stimulus package that has done nothing but create some, but not nearly enough, government jobs that are unsustainable. Where does Government get the money to pay Government workers as it produces nothing in the market place? (With the exception of GM, and we see how well that's going) Taxes, or borrowing! Great idea for stimulus! Real jobs are created by the private sector most of which by emerging small businesses according to the needs of the market. If people need goods and services, the market will find a way to provide them and create jobs in the process. This administration is Anti-Private sector and Pro Government Socialism. We are seeing how these Socialist policies effect the economy.

Add to that, Cap and Trade, Health Care Reform, and numerous other programs that this administration is pushing. Business doesn't know how to react to the uncertainty of the cost and policy regulations that will be imposed on them in the wake of these programs. Until businesses can see how they will be effected by these Government boondoggles, they can not plan for future growth and therefor hire people.

These are just a few of the Obama administration missteps!

I can go on and on!

Nice Fox News talking points, escomments.

Without the stimulus bill, we would now be in the middle of Great Depression II, a rather unpleasant place.

Remember that it was the collapse of the private sector that got us into this mess in the first place - coupled with George W. Bush's $5 trillion addition to our national debt, his reluctance to enforce corporate regulations, and the repeal of the Glass-Segal Act.

@ escomments...while I like any other caring person in this country realize that way to many people still cannot find work, what so many like yourself fail to acknowledge is how many jobs were SAVED as a result of the stimulus. I have plenty of complaints of my own as it pertains to the stimulus and how it has been executed but your teams answer was good old " tax cuts " and you simply can't talk about pork when both sides as guilty as the other. The problem here is not the White House but rather Congress, be they Dems or Republicans. So to lump all of the blame on Obama is disingenuous at best.

I wonder what you think might have happened, to our economy, if none of this was done which is exactly what the Republicans suggested happen. " The market will correct itself " Please !

You can go ahead and mock health reform but as my call sign suggests, half of me ( by birth right ) carries a French passport and I have lived there so no amount of socialism name calling is going to get me to think negatively about foregoing some of our nations wealth in favor of providing it's citizens with this most basic of needs.

For all of this Obama bashing, so many so easily forget that if your team hadn't sent us into a pointless war in Iraq, therefore blowing our chance to get the job done in Afghanistan, our deficit wouldn't be in the pathetic state it is in now and maybe we wouldn't be so concerned about all of the calamities our nation faces every new sunrise. Beyond the waste in lives, we have pissed away so much of our treasure and sunk into a black hole of nothing, that you guys simply have no ground to stand on.

While I hate having to regurgitate Bush, as an excuse but it will take many more years before they live down what they made of this country. And you guys were cheerleading all fo the way, so forgive me if I don't affix a great deal of value to your advice and opinions with a great deal of value. After all, if I remember correctly people like myself who abhored Bush, were labelled traitors.

Gee, Alan? Fox talking points? It's called econ 101.

Do you know anything about how business works or just how to extort money from it?

Do think businesses are the piggy bank of the Government to shake down when ever they feel like it?

Is the purpose of Business to provide jobs?

Why don't you answer the question of where does the Government get the money to hire Government workers?

Your comments and those of Mr. Frenchy are utter nonsense and almost don't deserve a response. Especially Mr. Frenchy's unprovable assertion that the Stimulus Package saved a single job.

I can't wait for you guys and your President to be thrown out of power before you turn the greatest country in the world into a banana republic.

Mr. Frenchy, It's not "Our Nation's" wealth, it's the individual's wealth. If you want to give more of your wealth to the cause, go for it. It's called charity or go ahead and start writing your checks to the IRS. Don't be volunteering everyone else's wealth. It's not yours!

You aren't a citizen of the United States, are you? How did we ever give someone like you citizenship? If you are so proud of France, I'm sure they have a place for you over there!

God you Liberals Piss Me Off!

Remind me again, escomments, what was the state of our economy when Bush/Cheney left office? Huge surplus, right, just like when he came into office? You know, since that administration, with their Ivy League MBAs, were so good at economics.

JustinTimberwolf
Remind me why Bush/Cheney are relevant to this conversation on what this administration is doing is ass backwards from what it should be doing?

escomments asked: "Do you know anything about how business works or just how to extort money from it?"

Can you explain how Enron worked? Or Leahman Brothers? How many of these CEOs have gone to prison?

As for extortion, I wonder how Haliburton got all those no-bid government contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps you can explain how free enterprise gave them tens of billions of dollars of profit out of this?

And Blackwater, with contract CIA assassinations...

Well, I would love to hear from you, escomments!

escomments ranted: "Especially Mr. Frenchy's unprovable assertion that the Stimulus Package saved a single job."

A funny thing recently happened, escomments. The CBO proved that Frenchmanaz's assertion is correct.

The Congressional Budget Office reports [11/7/2009] that the economic stimulus package is working, having created or saved 600,000 to 1.6 million jobs, and having added 1.2 to 3.2 points to our GDP growth. See this report at

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/106xx/doc10682/11-30-ARRA.pdf

Naturally conservatives like you are in deep denial. They only believe the CBO when it reports numbers they like.

Conservatives: Living in a Fact-Free Zone.

escomments said: "Mr. Frenchy, It's not "Our Nation's" wealth, it's the individual's wealth. If you want to give more of your wealth to the cause, go for it. It's called charity or go ahead and start writing your checks to the IRS. Don't be volunteering everyone else's wealth. It's not yours!"

Just out of curiosity, did your individual wealth pay for our military and our two wars? And what about police and fire departments? Just askin' ...

By the way, if you are happy to have others volunteering their money and efforts while taking advantage of what they do, you are the worst kind of freeloader I can imagine.

Alan,

You obviously don't want to discuss Economics. Just keep slinging the DNC Straw Men Talking points out there as if they mean something concrete.

Giving examples of huge multi billion dollar corrupt or perceived corrupt corporations that we all agree are scum (not to mention their disgusting relationships with politicians from both parties), doesn't answer a single question I asked you about economic theory and the role of Government, and the role of private sector businesses which 90% are Small Businesses.

I'm done with you.

"I can't even begin to imagine what things would look like right now if we were saying President McCain and slutty Sarah the VP."
Not enthused at the idea of Palin as VP either, but please elaborate on your use of the adj "slutty".
How, exactly, does she fit that term?
No response expected, btw, since you have none that is reasonable.

Left Wing Ideological Clap Trap! Tell us about the 30 years of Republican Missteps? No Democrat controlled house? Does Carter and Clinton count? Are Democrats responsible for anything that has happened in the last 30 years? Or is it just Republicans?

escomments: We have had a Republican President for 20 of the last 28 years prior to Obama. I think this gives Republicans the bulk of the blame, especially as Clinton was the only President during this time who had a budget surplus.

While you can claim a Democratic Congress had power during much of this time, a Republican President would have vetoed any controversial legislation passed by them.

So Alan, you mean we aren't going to talk about the mess Jimmy Carter left Ronald Reagan? Although, I don't remember Reagan ever whining about it and blaming all of his administrations problems on him.

Clinton was lucky he got a second term after the 1994 Republican take over of the House of Reps after 40 years of Democrat rule. The Dems didn't have any opposition anyway, the congress was full of Limousine Liberal Republicans who didn't give a crap about the Democrats Liberal agenda and never saw themselves being in the majority until the Contract with America and one Newt Gingrich's Conservative Agenda. That agenda was a backlash against Clinton's Socialist Health Care Reform. DejaVu all over again!

At least Clinton was smart enough to see it and started Governing from the Center after that. He "Ended Welfare as We Know It" That saved his ass and he was elected to a second term. That and his opponent was one of those talked about Limousine Liberals, Bob Dole who was a terrible candidate and was no Conservative.

@escomments: Since you and I are both business-oriented advocates, I'd like to break in here and make a case for government's influence as well.

As an exec in a very big business and a former small business owner I've seen from experience how critical is the balance between government & business.

Activists and extensive government regulation do matter, sometimes they're the card on the table that keep business decisions balanced and defendable. I work for the most ethical business in my career right now, and this is still true.

Business goals are not going to work to protect your health, the local economy, infrastructure or your civil rights unless it makes business sense to do so, and that's usually because of government regulation and public perception.

Profit isn't usually pursued gleefully at the expense of others as many anti-business bigots imagine, but because everyone in the company has been given a job to do to the best of their ability and it creates myopia.

And on the other hand there are poorly written, not thought out, lobbiest created government regulations and laws that cause problems to the causes of wealth, health, etc. Governments can get very self-serving.

I can say for sure that "left wing ideological clap trap" has created public schools, parks, social security your parents probably depend upon, kept sewage and pollutant out of your water, libraries, roads, on and on. Do you really want to live in a world without it? Wouldn't being more focused on the results and less on the 'religion' be smarter?

Veronica,

I think you make some valid points however, their are some contradictions.

"And on the other hand there are poorly written, not thought out, lobbiest created government regulations and laws that cause problems to the causes of wealth, health, etc. Governments can get very self-serving."

This is the rule, not the exception.

Companies and individuals are in business for one reason. The person who creates the business has a vision to either fill a market void, or compete in an established market with a better mouse trap. It is empowered by the individual's drive and love of what they are doing and the freedom to do it. An un encumbered Capitalist Free Market system if allowed to flourish would be self sustaining. When you fail, you fail. Pick yourself up and start again. Businesses fail all of the time and new businesses spring up to take their place. That keeps employees well paid and prices low for consumers. When corruption of the system takes place due to Unethical business practices one of which I would categorize as buying politicians and public officials, as your above statement reveals, in order to establish an artificial upper hand in the market place then we end up with an Enron, or Lehman Brothers. In these cases, people should go to jail as they did with Enron and that should be a deterrent against others attempting to skirt the law. I guess that happens unless you have made the correct payments to the correct political campaigns.

Suffice to say, businesses are not in business to create jobs. They are in business to make prophets for the business and it's owners and to expand it's presence in the market place, In the process, they create jobs and hire the nessassary people to accomplish their goals. In order to be competitive for the most educated and highley trained workers they offer benefits packages.

I'm sure you already know all of that.

Capitalism has offered the highest standard of living for the most amount of people. Socialism creates misery and mediocrity for all people except the "Best and the Brightest" that put them selves in charge to run everything. It has never been shown in history to be a successful model for an economic system and their is no reason to believe that success can be achieved in the future.

We have the New Deal programs now because of FDR's willingness to cause a treasonous Constitutional Crisis in the name of helping the poor in a depression. It is debatable whether it helped or was it World War II that pulled us out.Either way, he inserted the proverbial "Camel's Nose" under the tent. Now we are attempting to stuff the whole body humps and all in.

Had there not been a new deal, we would have continued on out of the depression, some would argue earlier, not later.

Now we are stuck with all of those bankrupting programs with no end in sight and no way out. Yes, even I want my Social Security and why not? I've paid into it for 30 years. That's is not a good thing, that is reality!

BTW, as businesses have a purpose so does the government. It's purpose is to grow and grow sucking in like a black hole, productivity and wealth. With that accumulating more and more power to run our lives.

Yes, I agree there should be a happy medium between Government and the Private sector. Government provides Constitutionally authorized services that the people or the states don't have the authority to do for themselves. You mentioned schools. Schools should be a function of a state or local government service. There should not be a Federal Department of Education and there is no authorization in the Constitution that allows it yet we certainly have to answer to it. We can go on and on with these examples of Federal Government excesses. Government should be creating an environment where the private sector can flourish and create jobs. Under the Obama administration and many administrations before his, it is striving to do the opposite and stifle economic growth and prosperity in return for power.

Your unsupported assertions about Cheney make me wonder about your intelligence, crypto.

Most of what Cheney has said and done - particularly in regard to our wars - has been wrong. Remember how he said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and how we would be welcomed in Baghdad as liberators?

Facts: The Bane of Conservatives.

Political savvy?

Pathological liar, mafia-style hitman and propagandist-in-chief?

Hey Alan2....

Not for nothing , but I'd say you're displaced sept can now lay claim to it's very own cause célèbre of great distress...... the bane-berry plant michelle brought with her to 1600 is being plucked as we speak...... I'm gonna enjoy knowing your side is sweating it for the next 3 years.

Cheney cut and run from Iraq in 1991! He got us where we are today in a total mess. Cheney and his lesbian love novel author wife are both enemies of the United States of America.

Sweating it for the next 3 years, Punk?

Surely you meant to say "7 years".

Please be more specific! It appears you too have created your own reality. President Obama has no excess baggage that will be blown wide-open. Don't you think the Clintons would have exposed that before during or after the election? Of couse they would have, and the RNC with all their research specialist would have come up with something. The lies from the right didn't work before the election and they won't work now. President Obama was the most vetted presidential candidate in the history of the United States of America. Of course if you only tune into and watch the Extreme Media you would nt know that truth.