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Biden: Recession Worse Than Feared
No gaffes here: Vice President Biden appeared on This Week Sunday morning and spoke relatively candidly about the recession, saying the Obama administration “misread how bad the economy was” and that the $787 billion stimulus plan was “the right package” although it will take months for many of the programs to take effect. He added that the current 9.5 percent unemployment rate is “much too high.” Regarding Iraq, Biden said the administration will hold fast to its commitment of withdrawing troops from cities, as they “believe the Iraqis will be fully capable of maintaining their own security.”
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I knew how bad it was :(. Everyday normal people do.
What did they think was going to happen?
Did they really think free market efficiency in America is still thriving? How can it without trust? Why do you think "In God we Trust" is written on the money? The invisible hand is based on efficiency, but also on trust more so than faith.
The way the Madoff Scheme was handled was horrifying to investors. Millionaires, even billionaires being robbed in this ponzi scheme right under the noses of SEC, and to add insult to injury they were paying taxes on phantom earnings, making IRS probably one of the biggest beneficiaries of the scheme .
Maybe the adversarial system works in politics but not in Commerce.
We are in two wars in the Middle East, which obviously contribute to volatile oil prices, and then people bidding on the derivative market especially oil and financials, bidding on failure often, making futures, our future go berserk.
What did they think was going to happen? Market failure is a process, so is market creation. Investors support the market. And SEC and IRS appear to have exploiters investors.
"Why do you think "In God we Trust" is written on the money? "
Quote from Wikipedia:
"A law was passed by the 84th United States Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956. President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved a joint resolution declaring In God We Trust the national motto of the United States.[1] The same Congress had required, in the previous year, that the words appear on all currency, as a Cold War measure: "In these days when imperialistic and materialistic Communism seeks to attack and destroy freedom, it is proper" to "remind all of us of this self-evident truth" that "as long as this country trusts in God, it will prevail.""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
Narpak:What happens when other countries believe in their god? Best not to think about that.
If memory serves me well, "In god we trust" first appeared on coins during or around the time of the Civil War. In very hard and scary times, people reach out in irrational ways. These days, a large number of movies have been released we have a number of programs on TV in which people are saved by someone or something with supernatural powers. I think the basis for the popularity of these programs as well as belief in god is fear combined with lack of backbone.
What scares me is that people will actually give up on Obama and the Democrats and rush back to the GOP in 2012...short memories and right wing extremists may doom our country.
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I disagree. I think that Biden speaking out and engaging in reflective criticism takes a lot of air out of the "lockstep with our dear leader" argument that so many try to make regarding this administration. It also helps to lay groundwork fo the next stimulus bill which will go after the midterms...
I doubt Joe's going to be on the 2012 ticket though. And I think he knows it (remember his teleprompter quip at the Air Force Academy's commencement?)
SlaveRevolt,
I actually hadn't heard about that. But I looked it up and it seemed a case of "Joe being Joe".
Chris Matthews has an interesting pet theory that Joe Biden is the Ed McMahon to Obama's Johnny Carson; the big, loud, common guy who counterpoints the skinny intellectual's detachment. I think that's what makes it a good ticket; the fact that it has two very different personalities on it.
You might be right and that these are early manifestations of tension and that the center cannot hold two massive egos. But I think he's pretty entertaining.
Rapierwits:
"Chris Matthews has an interesting pet theory that Joe Biden is the Ed McMahon to Obama's Johnny Carson"
Or another way to put it would be Biden is the gravedigger to Obama's Hamlet. I will give you one thing though: If Biden is in fact eventually replaced it will have to be with another Zionist fascist or else A.I.P.A.C. will flip out.
The only thing he's guilty of being,in this particular instance,is candid.
No reason to stifle that.
STOP hitting on BIDEN..............he is good and decent..........and his so-called gaffes are truth-telling anyway,
He was right to say they misread the economy.....but he should have said NO ONE can fix this economy in 2 years times let alone 5 months..........
COME ON ............has anyone Republican/or whatever another real ALTerNATiVE that would work better ??
When this administration realizes that the government doesn't create jobs, but creates the environment for the private sector to create jobs and hire people, then this country might begin to recover. Lowering the corporate tax rate would be a good start. Creating a flat tax rate for every worker might be another good start.
Lowering taxes didn't create the problem - spending by the last administration and this one, along with lack of oversight in the banking industry They keep piling on more programs without any funding. And who will pay for that? You and me - not just the wealthy, but every working individual.
KICK THEM ALL OUT OF OFFICE!!
We need a whole new politics. Dump the 535. The 535 Must Go!
Throw all the bums out!
They all need to go!!!!!!
Carole you are correct. Letting the sumbitches who passed the laws (deregulation of banking, and encouraging bad loans) that got us here, craft the stimulus was fundamental error in leadership. The first stimulus is a joke, isn't even spent yet and Shills like Paul Krugman are already calling for the second stimulus. Dig the hole deeper, write another flawed package ( Nothing O is saying leads me to believe he will get a second one right), and watch Barney Frank obstruct any increased oversight of the banks by Treasury.
No one in this site is going to be willing to accept any of O's mistakes. So throw stones at Biden if it'll make you fell better. What a debacle.
Actually, I believe one of our President's mistakes was not fighting hard enough for a larger package as Nobel Prize Laureate Paul Krugman had stated.
Of course, it was politically unfeasible thanks to republican obstructionism.
You are so right, and many comments prove your point. rapierwits refers to Paul Krugman as the guru of economic brilliance. He's a Nobel Prize Laureate, dontcha know! Hell, Limbaugh was nominated for a Nobel..........
Paul may have been a driven economist in the seventies with extensively used theories on Global Trade, but if you read him, he has devolved into a shrill partisan voice for a command economy rather than an objective academic. He strays into non-economic diatribes too often, and thereby has little credibility.
Paul's broad brushes ignored the details of the previous stimulus. His call for more without requiring any specifics regarding bolstering specific markets, R&D, and timing that actually constitute a plan. Additionally, he tends to ignore the worst of the political derailment of a real plan by the democratic congress and lobbyists.
Wasn't the first stimulus called "TARP"
"Absolutely, yup yup"
akcita,
It seems Krugman's voice is more like the frustrated voice of an ignored expert than one of shrill partisanship. His suggestions regarding aggressive fiscal policy seem to be quite similar to those he advocated during Japan's lost decade. I reckon a guy that smart should be listened to on a whole array of topics, even if you don't agree with him.
And the "political derailment" seemed caused much more by trying to get three lousy votes in the senate because Al Franken's victory was being delayed.
But you're right, of course about the lobbyists' role.
Afternoon Carole, long time no hear, hope your having a good summer! And of course, you hit it spot on! There is no environment for creating jobs going on, no stimulus! Only way to do that is to give the money back to the people, straight out, and let us spend it where we need it. Lots of new entrepreneurs in this climate, money will go farther and life will go on! If the government wants to tax they have to let us work and make money first. How ass backwards can they get it?
Hi, Squiggy - been busy with all my family for the holiday weekend. Hope you're having a good summer, too. You are so right about getting people back to work in order to increase the tax base. What part of that doesn't this administration or Congress understandz/
What good are tax cuts when you don't have a salary?
Go ahead, give the corporations cuts. Repeal the sales tax. Repeal all the taxes. No taxes at all. Ignore the fact that it'll leave us with no roads, no schools, no water-treatment plants and no law enforcement: all taxes gone.
It will do you no good at all. The best, most tax-free, most efficient company in the world won't be able to hire one single employee if no one has the money to buy what they're selling.
That's what ended the Depression: getting people factory jobs, making dams and bridges and eventually war planes. They had salaries again. Once there's demand, the business end can take care of itself. Business is good at meeting demand, not so good at generating it.
I applaud his honesty AND acknowledge that everyone got it wrong! Remember, McCain and the fundementals of our economy are sound statement.
The truth is too many who should have been able to see how bad it was couldn't or wouldn't. These are the people both Obama and McCain and every other candidate depended on for guidance.
Only Brooksley Borne (may have spelled her name wrong, sorry) and Sheila Blair got it right and the Master of the Universe told them to shut up.
As a society we got complacent and too many figured anything goes and the skies the limit. Common sense was tossed away (even when people knew better) as people consumed their way into ruinous debt.
Once Reagan sold the idea that government and all it stood for was bad, the door to this disaster was opened. Were the complaints about the merge and acquisition, IPO and outsouring mania? There was a time when layoffs were annouonced the stock market actually WENT UP!!
While the people who actually worked for a living found their wages stagnant those who pushed paper and made deals that would blow up in everyone's faces walked away with millions. And, we never complained. Or not enough of us did.
So the current economic diaster is deeper and longer than anyone imagine, simply because it was unimaginable given the always bigger, always better, always more philosophy that fuel this country for decades.
exploora you are so right.....and its even worst that they know..Where were the people supposed to be doing their jobs.And alot of politicians,congressmen,senators,etc,they are not leading in the best,way.Helping and caring for the people.And the morale of the persons are so low,no growth.People want to work,there are no credit lines, broken dreams,no opportunities,no real ,concrete,visible improement.And bickering in Washington,and we need 2 good strong parties,we the best of both can help the country.It almost seems as politics as usual.Maybe ,lets see.
I just finished accounting theory, sort of felt disillusioned about the whole thing, I took auditing before that. And all that work an accountant is supposed to do, raising him/herself above commercial values, believing in fiduciary duty to the client, and look at what really happens.
And then whenI applied for a job, the interviewer was one of those rough and tumble guys, I am surprised he wasn't wearing a cowboy hat, was going on about being able to count, as if it is about numbers, no it is about people. We have calculators to count numbers. But what do we have that empower people to count for something.
Now I am back working on my own business full time, and it is not that bad, as long as I can stay flexible and remember it is about serving the people not controlling the people.
People like Palin who quit, for God only knows what reason only to say she will be "helping" people, what ever that means. And if journalists try to figure out why what or when, there are threats of law suits.
We have banks and pseudo banks who charge fees for having no funds, charge fees for not being able to pay the fees, and policemen are legally able to drag people away from their homes, while leaving their homes to literally rot devaluing the whole neighbourhood.
We have back to nature people who say let poor neighbourhoods go back to nature.
So who should we really be afraid of. People in Iraq and Afghanistan, or people in our land who are supposed to be helping us?
Cause it is not about numbers it. It is about people. We the people, not us and them, but we. Not an adversarial process, exploiting conflict. But it is about solutions.
[the bullet had not completely penetrated the chest wall to his lung, and so declined suggestions he go to the hospital immediately. Instead, he delivered his scheduled speech with blood seeping into his shirt.[80] He spoke for ninety minutes. His opening comments to the gathered crowd were, "Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know whether you fully understand that I have just been shot; but it takes more than that to kill a Bull Moose."[81]] excerpted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt.
And look at us now.
How ridiculous of Spasticula to condemn Biden for telling the truth. This new administration - without a single guy with top business experience - has hardly a clue what to do. The stimulus package and the so-called "tax cut" was almost another prop for an entitlement society. Of c ourse, the Republicans are wrong to protest the deficit necessary in a depression - which is what it is - and the tragedy is that Summer and Geithner and for that matter Obama have misspent the opportunity.
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There is something to that. Did you note in the beginning days of their administration Biden always seemed a little too close, invading Obama's space?
Barack is not a world leader. He is a winner.He won the election, so he is our elected leader. The world is leaderless. They are politicians. They are in the hands of Money & Power. That is all of them. We must get rid of all of them, vote them out of power, or we are going to lose the good life on this planet.
Private money has to be taken out of politics or else we will never escape the hamster wheel of being governed by bought and paid for marionettes.
Our only hope is free-market based growth strategy. unfortunatley this Administration does not understand this, despite the fact that all the economic models around big-government solutions show disastrous results.
Levinson is preparing an essay on working our way out. A major economic statement. Hopefully he will send it along for me to post. Then instead of looking at his ideas the followers of J. Edgarina will come out of the wood work and attack the poet.
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"One bunch of unscrupulous charlatans ripping off another bunch of credulous speculators. That's a definition of capitalism, isn't it?" ----Inspector Morse
K Street furnished the weapon.
So Obama's Administration underestimated the severity of the recession. Think the fiscal conservatives knew what to do? Think again.
If you recall, the GOP continually accused Obama's team of OVERestimating the magnitude of the problem.
Remember the solutions proposed by the Congressional Republicans back in January?
1) Do nothing. Let nature take its course. In about 4-5 years, the ship will begin to right itself, and within 10 years, all will be as it was. (Except for the millions of families left in the wake...)
2) Provide additional disproportionately huge tax breaks to the ultra-wealthy. Cause they are the only ones that matter anyway, and these are the folks that will try to help the GOP get reelected.
The Republicans clearly didn't have the answer. Unfortunately, the right answer is not the product of "either/or" logic. And the Democrats have moved us forward to prove it. There are more than one, or even two, wrong and fundamentally stupid answers. The Democrats are living proof.
So far we are batting two-for-two on wrong and stupid. And we've run out of political parties AND ideas.
Throw all the bums out. The worst possible outcome is a shot at three-for-three on wrong and stupid. And maybe, just maybe, this time the blind pigs would find the acorn.
The Republicans have more of the answers than the Democrats. Power corrupts, and the Republicans weren't immune. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. To get the economy going we need simple, low taxes and restraint on spending. Democrats are running California, yet look how bad that situation is. If we keep the Democrats in power, the whole nation will be like California in a few years.
having more answers does not count when those answers are wrong.
The republicans blew it and their turn is over
Our president is reforming the tax code.
Biden is Obamas butt and he knows less about the math of things than Obama. He is a mouthpiece and that is all. He doesn't know what is going on in America because he is one of the long time elite Senators who has insulated himself from the real world, as all elites do. Why anyone would give credence to anything he says is beyond me but if opening his mouth gives a chance for people out of work to pin their job loss on the infrastructure of our economy so be it, in spite of the math!
No, Obama's $2 trillion in spending (on a national debt of $11 trillion) made the economy worse. How can anyone hire a person if they expect their taxes and overall costs to go way up? Duh!
This is astounding and infuriating. Why isn't this in the papers?
WHY ARE WE BANKRUPT?
Informative, and mind boggling!
You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:
I hope the following 14 reasons are read so many times that the Readers gets sick of reading them. I also have included
The URL's for verification of all of the following facts.
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal
Aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance
Programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school
Lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3.. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal
Aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts..cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages
Are caused by the illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC RI PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate
that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge Additional crime problem in the US .
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal Aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many As 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of
pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. From the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'
Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
!
14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ..'
Verify at: http: // www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE HAVING TROUBLE NDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY..........
Are we that stupid? YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!
JD-
All this says
Is that you're a small picture
Kind of guy.
I cannot find a credible link from any of these citations! links that lead to other comments sections at other blogs are not credible.
THIS IS NOT AN ECHO CHAMBER FOR RACIST SENTIMENT!
YOUR POLICIES OF DIVISIVENESS HAVE FAILED!!!
The diversification and strengthening of America through diversification shall continue.
you and all the other little tancredos lost.
go away.
JD92840
You're spreading lies. You are sharing a false, tired, hateful chainletter. You should be ashamed of your self. You apparently are incapable of independent thought.
The sad part is that these hardworking folks are doing their best to feed their families and spreading your lies incites hate and hate crimes. If you want to stop illegal immigration you need to go after those that profit from them being here.
Even if the numbers your chain letter stated were true, think about who is profiting from the illegals and the jobs that are created by your so called 338 billion stimulus package.
Oh yea, also do the math we are spending approx. $34,000 on each of the 11,000,000 illegal aliens in the country. Get out of your trailer and take some math classes, maybe learn a Spanish so you are not so afraid of these people.
Here is a respected link that debunks most of your lies.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do_illegal_immigrants_cost_3383_bi llion_dollars.html
JD...don't attack the illegals...they voted democratic.
Obama screwed up.
Biden admitted Obama screwed up.
The press reported that Biden admitted that Obama screwed up.
Liberals are angry that the press reported that Biden admitted that Obama screwed up.
:)
and Republicans will spin this as a Democratic failure
while taking credit for the success of causing that failure
by way of obstructionism.
Don't be silly. Obama's failure to fix the recession IS a democratic failure---Joe Biden just said so.
The Democrats control the White House, the House of Representatives and have a filibuster proof 60 vote control of the Senate. Obama got his stimulus bill and his supplemental budget and his extra money for the Afghanistan surge and his bankruptcy for Chrysler and his government takeover of GM and every other bill he asked for.
There is nothing "republican obstructionism" can do....the dems have complete and total control of the government.
Plant is right and the fact that he admitted it was worse than they thought is a cover, something Obama got him to say, for they need to spend more money! Money they must print. Here is an example of a dying industry and how it is being handled. Let me know if you recognize the symptoms.
The San Francisco Chronicle announced that they would stop publishing their newspaper at their aging, unionized printing plant and instead outsource the printing to a Canadian owned, non-union company...........The Chronicle lost $50 million last year and could not afford to replace the plant themselves..........The move comes at a time when California unemployment is 11.5% and there are threatened layoffs at all levels of government in the state.
The problem is we are in a downward spiral and everyone is scrambling to save themselves rather than saving the industry. We have all had to make cuts and tighten our budgets but damn rapier, you can't bleed turnips, I don' t care what party you are in. In this case there is no obstruction, anywhere and the gov't can't save the industry! Happening all over!
rapierwits - you hit the nail on the head
Plant - you seem to forget that dems are independent thinkers. They do not line up behind their demigod of the day suckin up bad air and spewing it back at the voters. Dumbed down-- A majority of democrats is not equal to a majority of republicans.
It would be refreshing if the repubes give Obama some support and try his plan. If it doesn't work then they would be back in business next election. The sooner we all get together and try something new to fix this country the better. The tired,tired,tired lower taxes smaller government just doesn't cut it.
"Absolutely, yup, yup"
This has been written on the wall for a long time.
Obama & Co., want to keep up the "BLAME BUSH" rhetoric as long as they can.
I am not saying that Bush is not to blame, so relax Obama-bots (keep sipping the Koolaid!) but I am saying that Obama knew exactly how bad things were and fought tooth and nail for the job of POTUS. (Blew 600 million to get it too, I might add.....) So now he's crying the blues?
Like the old saying goes...."Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it!!!!"
"Absolutely, yup, yup"
Of course it's a very bad situation, as bad as the Great Depression of the 1930s or the Long Depression of the 1870-90s. A thing like this will last for many years unless the federal government intervenes with massive deficit spending and easy money policies from the Federal Reserve. If the government had not done this, the depression would be even worse than it is right now.
There is no Republican answer to a depression like this. Never has been. The things they are talking about will only make it worse and it will last much longer. A lot of them don't even realize that they're playing with fire, and that instead of being in a situation like 1930, we could be in a total economic collapse like 1933.
It is time to give the Federal Reserve new powers to transfer money directly to cities, states and industries facing bankruptcy, as well as funding entitlement programs like Medicare that are broke.
mcmchugh99
It is also time to outlaw lobbyists and get the politicians weened off the corporate teats. When government starts answering to the public rather their corporate sponsors we have a chance to truly reduce the size of government and truly reduce taxes.
It is also time to rid ourselves of businesses that are of no "value added". Publicly traded companies should have complete transparency as to executive compensation so consumers can make educated choices. Then free market will begin to work rather than a bastardized system that served the so well until greed overcame common sense.
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We need the Federal Reserve to cut the checks, and push the buttons to transfer funds to bankrupt cities, states and industries, to prevent total collapse. If you think we need a negative income tax, well, I agree with that. We could throw that into the mix as well. If we don't start getting creative, we will be facing collapse.
The scary thing is they do not have a clue as to what to do. They keep pushing long-term plans for health care and climate control and ignore the immediate problem. What is their plan? The great communicator hasn't articulated one? They came into office convincing the idiots who voted for them that they could solve all by raising taxes on a few "evil-rich" people, and nobody believes that one anymore.
"The recession is worse than feared" WOW! How about Obama and Biden are WORSE than alot feared. I bet those Kool Aid drinkers are getting scared as we have been from the beginning of this fairy taled presidency. Gotta appreciate Biden for is outspoken candor. He does the same thing as Hannity, Limbaugh and Levin. Thanks for giving it to us strait Joe. Liberals this is what happens when your Gods do not use a teleprompter.
"Bring them home" Its costing to much for our troops to be sitting there as sitting ducks.Get them out of there or Let the Iraq's start paying for something If they want our troops there longer let them pay for the stay.But I still say get them the hell out of there.
Honesty from a politician? Well, Obama has been saying that this recession was very serious. So have most economists. No economist who's articles I've read thought we'd be breaking free from the recession by now. And conservatives are already saying that Obama caused this recession and that it belongs to him...their logic escapes me. This is a GOP recession! Most likely, the recession will last until the end of 2009 or 2010, and though the stimulus package may save or create some jobs, jobs are typically the last statistic to show improvement after a recession. In fact, I expect the jobless rate to stay quite high for a _long_ time. Where are the jobs going to come from? Foreign automaker's plants? The good times are over in this country. As other countries have industrialized, the U.S. has found it harder and harder to compete.
It's not clear that the stimulus package was large enough, and the money is tied up in government bureaucracy. We can save money by ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and closing most of our 750 military bases around the world ASAP. Spend that money here at home, or use the saving to reduce deficit spending.
rtchap2: when conservatives offer any solution to any of our problems, I'll dance in the streets. Right now, all they do is complain. Do you really believe Limbaugh, Hannity, and Levin? If many people do, we're doomed for sure. Obama is doing most things right.
Hi
I'm new to this site but I am already impressed with the level of discourse and exchanges here.
I dont know if any of you read informationclearinghouse.info as it is a little far out there but It has a lot of commentary from ppl other than the so called "experts" on may subjects.
Mike Whitney whom I am not sure of his background writes some great articles on the current economic crisis and if you search the ICH archives you will fine articles written by him that accurately predicted it.
As far as how bad how deep and how long it will be here is a link to his latest article...Running On Empty
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22976.htm
SPAM!!!!
Thank you.
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