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Senate Committee Drops Public Option
Is this the cost of bipartisanship? A group of senators from both sides of the aisle have met secretly for several weeks, and are close to unveiling a trimmed-down health-care bill, the Associated Press reports. The new bill, pushed forth by the Senate Finance Committee, which includes Max Baucus (D-MT), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), and Chuck Grassley (R-IA) omits a public insurance plan as well as a requirement that businesses offer coverage to their employees. The plan would likely establish a nonprofit insurance provider that will compete with major insurance companies, instead of a government-led plan. Meanwhile, in the House, Speaker Nancy Pelosi confidently addressed the controversy surrounding health care, saying that everything remains on schedule for a vote—whenever the time may come.
Plantagenet
Democrats in Congress set up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to compete with banks by offering sub-prime mortgage loans to poor people.
We all saw how that worked out.
Now democrats in Congress want to set up a Fannie and Freddie to complete with banks by offering sub-prime health insurance to poor people
Good luck with that.
socialworklady
One of the MANY daily messages brought to you from the Plant.
Paid for by the health insurance lobby.
It's getting kind of transparent, Plant.
nickatdabeach
I remember clearly many times on the campaign trail Obozo said we'd get the same health care coverage that members of Congress have. I guess that promise was also lost in the transition... just another lie... tell me when to stop counting.
Ritarita
Face it Nicky
You're not going to be happy
No matter what-
You're a malcontent.
What did you do with yourself
Before the internets buddy?
Bamos99
One must be able to discerne between campaign promises that have failed due to politics and untruths. If you want lies, see the Repugnicants and Blue Dog agendas. If you want hope thatt fails to spring eternal, see Obama. The sad thing is, the country as a whole is the loser. Pols simply live on as does the cockroach. Have a nice day.
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n--Y--toodogssbvpav
it may have been deomcrats in congress who set it up; but it was the past republican administration and congress that castrated all regulation for their own wealth.
LeighBeast
Nick - Calling the president silly names doesn't score any points or show any depth. I'm guessing you are trying to persuade? Lost me at "Obozo."
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n--Y--toodogsThis user is no longer registered.
n--Y--toodogsjkica13
You may want to do some more research Toodogs. I'm very sorry about your cousin but you need to realize that that IS the situation here as well. Independent studies show that people in the US spend more for health care than any other country and we are sicker and die younger than people in any other country. We are paying more for worse care. We also lead the world in the number of people who die while waiting for medical benefits. These are facts. Under the current system, your cousin may very well have died here the same way they died there. Private insurance companies are for-profit companies, it sets up an automatic conflict of interest for your health care - you're really more comfortable with that?
Downriver
Revisionist history at work: I don't see you placing any blame on 8 years of republican control of the white house and 10 of the last 12 years of republican control of the house and senate. We are enjoying the results of Bush's disastrous "Ownership Society".
George Bush, campaigning in 2004:
5/6/04: "Thanks to being the most productive workforce in America, and I might say, thanks to good policies, this economy is strong and it's getting stronger. ... Home sales were the highest ever recently. That's exciting news for the country."
8/28/04: See, I love an ownership society. It's a hopeful society. It's a society that provides stability in times of change.
8/9/04: If you own your own home, and building equity in your own home, and you're changing from job to job, it provides great security and relief.
8/6/04: Home ownership is at an all-time high now in America. That's fantastic news. Isn't it wonderful to have somebody for the first time be able to say: welcome to my home; I'm glad you're here at my piece of property.
10/ 2004 "America is a stronger country every single time a family moves into a home of their own"
Bush pushed new policies encouraging homeownership, like the "zero-down-payment initiative," which was much as it sounds-a government-sponsored program that allowed people to get mortgages without a down payment" and he encouraged deregulation of the mortgage market.
Veronicaxy
Agree Clinton actually agreed to the sub-prime. That said it was George Bush I that uncoupled FM from congressional oversight, which allowed the extensive deregulation and private interest pressures on FM so there was no governmental ability to reel the mess in later...which is why McCain went radio silent after saying he was the champion for reform. The Repubs sold out FM so he didn't do any flag waving on that either.
Regulation is not an evil, it's a tool.
Betsy1040
I agree. The government will manage the 'public option' the same way they do medicare and medicaid. Huge costs, graft and fraud. And the fools want to turn over their health to that. Goodness, I'm not even in the insurance industry,
The "social worker' (aka parasite) thinks she is getting something for free. It's not free for anyone, rich or poor.
Ritarita
The 'social worker'
Is Canadian Betsy-
She doesn't have our problems.
Don't be so smug.
DennisF
Well, Fannie and Freddie go back to the New Deal. Secondly, it was GW to his credit that wanted expand home owning. Third, Fannie and Freddie were a small part of the problem--don't forget AIG, Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, etc. Lastly, health ins reform isn't for just for "poor people" it's for middle class (?) people like those of us who blog who can merely hope that we are covered when the time comes for a major surgery or whatever else. I await your reply.
Bunx05
Good luck with that?!
We NEED health insurance reform. It's not the same as healthcare reform. It should be called health assurance. My parents (only by the grace of God) were able to put money away for me to go to college. I got scholarships and grants. But instead of using my college fund to make up the difference, I took on student loans. Why? I'm glad you asked.
The summer before college, my father started having complications with diabetes. He was in the hospital for 13 months! Right in the middle of all that, he lost his job and with it his insurance. He couldn't get anyone to insure him because of his pesky preconditions. So I used my college fund over the course of the next 7 years to pay for his healthcare.
And we are some of the lucky ones!
Everyday, there are more and more stories like this. People with cancer dying without healthcare. Senior citizens riding buses to Canada to get their prescriptions filled. States like Texas cutting their government plans for healthcare for children. CHILDREN! How can you talk down to anyone in a situation like that?
Oh I'm sorry, you said it in your first line. This is all about poor people. How about young people who are trying to make it?! Many of them aren't insured, and with today's economy, many of them can't get the jobs they need to become insured.
The minimum wage was raised recently. Now if you have a minimum wage job, you can earn $15,080 annually. In 2008, however, the average cost for a family to have insurance was $13,150 (Source: Center for American Progress). So, hey, there's some good news! If you work your ass off in a menial minimum wage paying job, you can afford insurance for your family . . . provided you can live off $1,930 annually after that.
Am I the only one who is absolutely sick and tired of hearing rich people bitch and moan about healthcare? About how their freedoms will be infringed on if we have a government option? A society is only as great as their treatment of the elderly and the disenfranchised. By that standard, we suck.
So how about good luck with trying to make a better country for its citizens?
Jackass.
Ritarita
Right on the money
As usual Bunx-
A society is only as good
As the way it treats it's lowliest members.
Wish more people would ponder that
When they're out there
On the links.
hfb1053
Where or where do you get your facts? At Toys R Us? Even wealthy people that over-extended themselves are in foreclosure and losing their homes, cars, etc. It's not that Freddie/Fannie made loans to "Poor" people; it's that they overappraised home values to those that were already overextended. Use a brain cell here. And health care is totally in the hands of the insurance companies as of now and most of us are getting f**ked and not even kissed.
TJColatrella
The Lewin Group of all did a report for Colorado, that shows even after adding the uninsured Single Payer Cuts costs and saves money lots of money..that's from the Lewin Group (United Health Care)..a large very suspect convicted insurance provider...!
hockeydog
As usual, bidness as usual!
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n--Y--charles116allonfla
This is one of three bills and the house has stated that they will not vote for a bill without a public option. it appears neither you or db knows what they are talking about.
Ritarita
That's right allonfla-
This is a tabloid headline.
All paradigm shifts
Go through convulsions.
That's how our country was born.
keepakeeper43
The bill is rushed.
It looks like a white-wash.
So, Barack, Nancy, & Harry,
Can you say you REALLY tried??!!
It looks like
NO.
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n--Y--charles116allonfla
yes, 50 years is a rush let's wait ten more or when you have gone bankrupt because that brain cancer you had been treated for was not paid for because you insurance company dropped you.
jq2122
Or the government refused to pay for it because it's not "cost-effective." Take your pick.
Wake up, America. Congress and the president don't give a damn about your health care. If they did, they wouldn't refuse to be part of the same plan they're trying to force on you. Fixing problems here and there is one thing. A complete health care overhaul is entirely another. It is a waste of taxpayer dollars, given that 91% of Americans report having health insurance, and 84% of those report being satisfied with their health insurance.
Ritarita
No need
To ask what you do
For a living- jq2122.
You've made it very clear.
'Not cost effective' is insurance talk
Not government talk.
Go get your paycheck.
kaleb85
jq -
There's so much wrong with that. First off, your numbers. In May, 16.6% reported being uninsured. In June, 16% reported being uninsured (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/who-are-the-uninsured/).
Secondly, the logic that all that matters about people's health insurance is whether they report satisfaction. Many of the people that report having health insurance are actually uninsured. As long as they remain somewhat healthy they are fine, but once they really need the insurance they find out that insurance won't pay up.
Seems to me like you're the one that doesn't give a damn about health care.
kaleb85
I meant to say that many of the people that report having insurance are unDERinsured. My bad.
confused
This sounds like another diversionary plan from the minority that doesn't want health care reform. New tactic - every few months submit a "new" plan and start all over again until the other side gives up.
Betsy1040
Why do you think it follows that if someone is against the public option, they are against health care reform? There is nothing wrong with health care in the US. It's with health care costs. Let's focus on that.
GVidal
I will vote against anyone who supports a bill WITHOUT a public option....that includes OBAMA.
bebando
I will vote against anyone who supports a bill WITH a public option. Thank goodness some Senators are trying to work together.
neverlate
The grown-ups have finally entered the room! Now we can leave Reid-Pelosi LaLa land for some real solutions to real problems.
GVidal
The moron have entered the room....you should know them well
splinter
It must be hard to be you. How lonely it must feel to be the only smart one everywhere you go. Rattling cages. Grabbing people by the ear and teaching them. You must feel so unappreciated. Anything else you can think of that will make this country more like France? Perhaps a 20% unemployment among people under 30 would imprve your opinion about good old USA? Maybe a 65% tax rate? How about just going completely broke? You mean there is nothing that USA does that is to your satisfaction? Being the world's biggest economy and having the highest standard of living is not enough?
ghettosavant
splinter, you sound furious at the man for having a strong opinion and yet you're just as strident. you're real beef wouldn't be envy would it... or are you a famous and widely admired writer posting under a pseudonym? i mean, how can you trumpet capitalistic meritocracy and then shit on intellectual and artistic achievement? your achievements in life should lend your words more or less weight given the correct circumstance. a discourse on public welfare sounds well within bounds. i swear, has this country ever had any civil discourse? does anyone even vaguely care about persuading or is this just a knock-out brawl where the loudest, most belligerent and most importantly, tireless, competitor wins. what a darwinian proposal.
splinter
Ghettosavant: I am simply a man greatful for the opportunities I've had. Greatful to learn, to work and to provide. Greatful for the escape my family has made from the corrupt and corrupting system some are so stridently arguing for. The grass is always greener and so forth. Some would do well to remember that.
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n--Y--charles116connie47
splinter,
You might want to check your America-only attitude. The countries with the highest standard of living are:
1. Iceland
2. Norway
3. Canada
4. Australia
5. Ireland
6. Netherlands
7. Sweden
8. Japan
9. Luxembourg
10. Switzerland
11. France
12. Finland
13. Denmark
14. Austria
15. United States
Numbers 1-14 all have something in common - they are industrialized countries with some form of universal healthcare.
Genni2002
splinter
It is very hard for me to believe that anyone should be denied access to medical treatment, just as no-one (in this day and age) should be starving? It just seems like a very inhumane approach no matter which side of other issues you stand on.
Ritarita
Hey splinter
You Constitution kissers
Should read the first line-
mandating our Government to
PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE.
Rafter
Connie47,
Check the immigration policies and enforcement on every one of the countries you listed. Better yet, try to "sneak" into one, find a job and get healthcare.
splinter
Rita - welcome back. You've been missed. You do know that words "GENERAL WELFARE" had a different meaning back then? Right? If not, here is a link:
http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#WELFARE
Connie - You have not been missed. I am assuming that you are getting your data from HDI. As such, you should probably also post that #1 Iceland has a score of 0.968 and #15 USA has a score of 0.950. To gain an extra 0.018 movement in the index, you would give up our competitive edge.
France, example frequently kicked around on this site, has a score of 0.955 and is #11.
Genni - I see a difference between "denial" and "provision". You are equating lack of access to "denial" or, in other words, you are arguing that Americans are "barring" someone from receiving medical care. Is that what you are trying to say? That we, as a nation, allow our sick to die in the streets? If we do, than your two favorite programs, Medicaid and Medicare have been a gigantic waste of our treasure.
GVidal - you are a child. I will not be responding to you.
Ghettosavant - Although we are clearly on different spectrums, I am looking forward to more of your posts. PS: Aren't you glad you stuck up for GVidal?
kognyc
SPLINTER, it must be hard to be you. How lonely it must feel to be the only smart one everywhere you go. Rattling cages. Grabbing people by the ear and teaching them. You must feel so unappreciated!!!
connie47
splinter,
How nice of you to notice that I haven't been away. I didn't know you were watching. Regardless of what the % of difference is between the top countries and the US, there is still a % of difference and their citizens having some form of universal healthcare into the bargain.
Ritarita
Splinter-
'Well regulated militia'
Meant something different
Back in the day too.
Didn't it?
splinter
kognyc: I am enjoying the debate. Sorry if I've stepped on the last, exposed, raw nerve. You should have that checked out. I wouldn't wait for the Universal Healthcare.
Ritarita
Haha Connie-
You must be broken-hearted.
connie47
What can I say Rita? Sniff.
Genni2002
splinter:
No one is barred, that is agreed. People can be denied if they don't have the money. I just think that everyone should get basic coverage, sorry, but I do.
GVidal
Nothing short of a single payer UNIVERSAL system will work. Once again, the Brits, the French, and the Canadians prove we are a very, very stupid country.
neverlate
Maybe you should take up French.
GVidal
already know it...unlike you Republicans who are illiterate and intellectually bankrupt.
Maybe you should take a trip up to a New England college to get some "learnin"
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n--Y--charles116Ritarita
It wouldn't
Hurt you any-
Neverlate.
jus1drun
there's more than a few of us who seriously want to see progress here and are hopeful.
but thank you marx, lenin, stalin, castro or whomever you may be in absentia, there's a big bunch of us who are not willingly going to give over our lives to bureaucrats (animal farmers) unless it is proven at the level of science that it must be so.
BasPos
I don't necessarily believe that a for-profit company has my best interests at heart, viz. the auto industry. I have owned two cars from each, and none was equal to the various VW, Honda, or Mazda I've had;-(
Gkenyon
Awwww...did someone read a little Orwell and now think he's intelligent. Perhaps you shoulld have kept reading and found out how Orwell really felt about issues like super captitalism and the profitization of everything from healthcare to prisons.
And all you "Merica!" chest-thumpers need to remember one thing: America currently has the single most expensive health care system on the planet. We pay more than any other country, but our outcomes here are inferior to nearly every other modern nation. We have the highest deathrate of newborn children among industrialized countries. A recent study rated 19 relatively prosperous nations on their effectiveness on curbing deaths from preventable diseases, and guess where America was? That's right...at the very bottom. American's are also more likely to suffer to from chronic diseases such as diabetes than nearly all other modern nations.
Yes, we know you love America...and we're very proud of you. In fact, we love it to. But loving your country doesn't mean holding your hands to your ears and chanting "we're the best! we're the best!" while other countries surpass us in the way they take care of their citizenry.
You've been hoodwinked. You get your cretinous talking points from your Republican senators and FOX News. They, in turn, get them from spinmeisters at the insurance companies and big pharma -- whose interests they are paid well to protect. No matter how much you dislike them, Obama and Pelosi are fighting for your interests! That is, unless you're a third-generation mult-millionaire who will never have to worry about going bankrupt because of a sudden onset of a disease and an insurance company that decides to drop you.
Seriously -- wake the f up! How can you be so moronic and not see that you are being manipulated here? If there weren't so many cretins in America, these huge sociopathic companies would never get away with putting profit over people and destroying the earth to do it. They would never get away with dropping people from insurance because they develop a life-threatening illness. With polluting our oceans and rivers to improve their bottom line. Fortunately for them -- the dumb breed more quickly. So they will never be short of shuffling, brain-dead zombies to add to their constituency. They just put out a commercial with a few flags waving in the background and convince you that "the other guy" isn't a real American, and you fall in behind them to vote AGAINST YOUR OWN INTERESTS!!
Seriously, wake up. We're trying to help you here.
jus1drun
gkenyon
dude your knee jerk bias is showing. i vote progressive, i voted for potus. rightwingers are on the extreme of not trusting govt but there are plenty of us who want to see progress but don't consider turning all control over to govt a viable option. furthermore i spent 10 years in the belly of the beast (the last 3 as budget director for a 200,000 pop city) and i know first hand that if a solution is available that does not involve increasing the bureaucracy, run don't walk to it.
ThinkAgain
When's the last time the Brits or French or Canadians invented something you actually use? Who comes up with all the new drugs everyone uses these days? Wake Up and use something real to define success instead of your narrow uninformed mind.
Bunx05
Think again, ThinkAgain (sorry I couldn't resist). Over the past 10 years, more and more of our major innovations have been coming from minds outside the US. Granted, in the end, they usually work with one of our large companies to bring the thought to fruition, but that has more to do with the fact that we scout talent and buy it up better than anyone.
Bunx05
I wouldn't say we're stupid, but very young compared to all those nations. We still have a lot to learn about what it takes to have any form of long-term stable society (note I said society not government).
The other nations on the above list have a very nice standard of living, and it should be noted that they have something we don't a very nice sized (dare I say booming) middle class. Our middle class is fading out, and it's a sad thing too, given that our nation was and has always been built on the stregnth of our middle class.
Part of the reason for the decline of the middle class is healthcare cost. Whether you get healthcare through your employer (trends show that the cost of healthcare paid by employers and employees is moving closer to a 60/40 split over the next 10 years where employees will eventually pay 40% of their own healthcare costs) or whether you pay for yourself (I won't even get into these trends on cost; let's just say they are unsustainable for the consumer), the weight of these costs is breaking the backs of these families. And essentially destroying our middle class and our economic strength.
neverlate
This is a defining moment for Obama. He either goes to the mattresses with Pelosi and Reid, or becomes the pragmatic leader we need.
Plantagenet
"Obama.....goes to the mattresses with Pelosi and Reid"
----
Umm....what exactly are you suggesting?
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n--Y--charles116Johnnyappleseed
Is there any oil involved?
Ritarita
Aren't you adorable
Plantagenet-
I love it
When you try
To be funny.
mcmchugh99
This is his litmus test. I would plead with him to do the smart thing. He's a smart man, and he knows the dnager of going against his own base.
maspring
Take what you can get. Go back and get more.
Just make sure you've got the best deal the first time around.
splinter
What happened to "Ask not what your country can do fo you, but what you can do for your country." When did American dream become about what you can take from others? Nice choice of words there, buddy.
jdx60009
splinter
I think maspring was referring to the terms of the bill. Negotiating to the best of your
abilities. Take what you can get.
Reading your posts doesn't give me the impression that you're the one who
should be jumping on somebody else's words, when you seem loathe to admit that the
opportunities you've had result directly from the society you're lucky enough to live in
and the infrastructure it's provided you.
splinter
JD, it's late and I've had a scotch. I'll respond in the morning.
GVidal
splinter doesn't only have a scotch....he has mental disorder
squiggy
Nothing like a single malt to mull it over! We need regulation to slow the rise of cost. With expansion of already in place programs, the cost will not be so great.
splinter
JD: I know very well what maspring was referring to. I chose to deliberately interpret him in the context of the end-math for this so-called abortion of reform. Since everything government does has a cost, something will be taken from someone. You've clearly misunderstood my admission of gratitude. A man makes his own luck and nothing has been "provided" to me, rather it was paid for and defended by me. You have the same opportunities, yet, you choose to ignore them.
As to the issue at hand, true reform is needed. However, what you are being fed from your own side is horseshit that will not deal with current problems and will exasperate existing ones. Medicare and Medicaid are threatening to bankrupt us as a nation; yet, solution presented is to add another worthless bureaucracy.
Bunx05
Splinter: I believe that when Kennedy made that statement, he was speaking to an audience who was very different from the citizens of the country today; no better or worse, just different. In Kennedy's time (and the time of many of our older statesmen and women's childhoods), the american people had not been truly introduced to the influence of profit hungry corporations and industries. People today have gone through times when sales slumped for a major business by 10% and they responded with 35,000 layoffs.
Also, the mega-corporation was only int he infancy stages then. There were still a variety of mom and pop stores and an entrepreneurial spirit could still serve you extremely well.
For the past 20 - 30 years, the statement has been something like: "Ask not why your government allows big business to take from you, but what else you can give to big business."
And that's the crux of it, isn't it? If ordinary everyday people like you and me had protection from large industries driven by profit and profit alone, we wouldn't need government regulation en mass. We wouldn't need governement provided insurance for our healthcare because we'd more than likely be able to afford healthcare.
I see your point splinter, but I cannot conceed it. This is a different time, and our threats to freedom are different. They don't come from outside our borders but from within. They are the titans of industry. We give them our money, our time and ultimately our power.
mattbenzor
Who is this Lewin group the republicans talk about there survey and there relying on it to kill healthcare is it the same Lewin insurance company that was sued for 400 million dollars for screwing for consumers thats you america.Your getting Screwed again by "BIG INSURANCE" and the republicans are fighting for them "NOT" you.When are going stop letting these republican hacks screw you for what you deserve
dana64
LEWIN group was set up by UNIted HEALTH CARE insurance company................the biggest in the country !!
Ritarita
The LEWIN group
Are the ones who paint
All of those white washed walls
Matt.
daniel66
Matt,
I hear what you are saying, but The Republicans aren't killing the plan...the Democrats are. A majority in both the House and Senate, control of the White House, and yet we still aren't getting even close to the promise of "the same coverage as members of Congress". Let Congress have our coverage and watch how quickly it gets reformed!
The Democrats can completely roll the Republicans, but lack the political will (look in the dictionary under "balls") to get the job done. Republicans didn't have solutions to our problems, Democrats did and rightfully got elected. If they can't deliver on those promises, the Republicans walk back into control. If Healthcare fails, Obama will be a one term president and the midterms next year will be a good indicator..
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n--Y--laughorcryCarole65
And I would sure hope that the idea of cooperatives are being considered. I would also hope that tort reform might be considered, although that would take a lot of work in order to be completely fair to everyone.
Plantagenet
Tort reform is NOT being considered. The democrats get huge financial donations from tort lawyers, so there isn't a single word about tort reform in the Obamacare plan they are debating.
jdx60009
Plantagenet
Tort reform only accounts for less than 1% of every health care dollar, and that's
if you throw in defensive medicine. As usual you're being nothing more than a
distraction.
Ritarita
You're on it jdx-
Tort reform is a straw man
Employed by people
Who don't know what else to use
For an argument.
If you're talking money-
It's not a game changer.
dana64
WELL i wish they would announce a PRICE For PREMIUM. so people know how much it will cost...........
also MANDATE is giving millions of new clients to HEalth Insurance companies............we should get SOMETHING BIG out of this too............lower premiums and more service..........
flyoverland
Very sensible. The objective is the cover every American Citizen, not socialize the country. As long as pre-existing conditioners are not allowed to exclude people who are sick, (or who are simply predisposed) this is a good logical first step. we don't ruin the system we have and everyone who wants coverage can get it. Nancy better back off, they are now talking of a ten percent tax on Botox.
flyoverland
They should also require drug and device companies to sell drugs and devices to Americans at the same lower rates they charge in other developed countries. There is no reason China should get a deal on drugs and lend us money. We also should not subsidize the socialized programs in other perfectly capable countries like France, Sweden and the UK by requiring Americans to pay more for the same thing. You want to bring down the cost of healthcare, try equalizing the pricing on drugs. Problem solved.
Bunx05
That's a huge part of the problem I agree, but it's not all of the problem.
sbvpav
President Obama has announced three bedrock requirements for real health care reform:
Reduce Costs - Rising health care costs are crushing the budgets of governments, businesses, individuals and families and they must be brought under control
Guarantee Choice - Every American must have the freedom to choose their plan and doctor - including the choice of a public insurance option
Ensure Quality Care for All - All Americans must have quality and affordable health care
anything less, will be a just another 2003 medicare modernization act and medicare part d boon to the health care industry.
should we the people who overwhelmingly elected this president to get a public option and who now 72% of americans want, see this has another pea in the shell con game, the next grass roots movement will be not tea baggers but public financing of all elections.
blue tics, republicans and sen. baucus, manage your lobbyist funded wealth well because it will come to an end!
Plantagenet
Obama promised us the same health care plan Congress has!!!!
Why should wealthy congressmen like Pelosi, Kennedy, etc. get free health care while poor Americans do not?
Where is Obama's support for healthcare now?
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n--Y--charles116Bunx05
Again ... I put you on talking restriction.
crashtestDummy
will the bill include nonprofit enema's?
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n--Y--charles116Thank you.
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