Cheat Sheet

Ahh... its a 100% democrats bill. So any delays would be yours.and yours alone.

Even if the bill were to be passed tomorrow, there would still be plenty of time for all the health care companies to raise their prices - that's why they were willing to strike a deal.

The president struck a deal and the other party (drug companies with the acquiescence of the insurance companies and for-profit healthcare) cheated on the deal. His response should be to kill the deal, scrap all the current reform bills passed in the house and senate, start over and force every obstinate senator and congressman to explain to the public (in their states and districts) why he/she opposes healthcare/insurance reforms with a public option and stringent restrictions on the whores of insurance and for-profit medical care entities, including drug companies--which accept--and line their stockholder pockets with--untold federal dollars for their research and development programs.

What the insurance companies, for-profit hospitals, drug companies have done and are doing to the American citizenry has been, is and will remain more criminal than what Capone of Madoff did in terms of sheer volume. The pitifully and purposefully brainwashed "ignorant American" must finally stand up and says "no more!" It is the responsibility of the President to go to war against these thieves; to teach and lead the American people!

Obama must put the full and unencumbered burden on Republicans & Blue Dogs to defend the current corrupt healthcare system from top to bottom. Obama needs to use extortion, blackmail, bullying and "scorched earth" tactics against the elected enemies of reform--who, themselves, use the "Big Lie", outright lies, half truths, convoluted logic, propaganda and "glittering generalities" to dupe the "willing to be duped" American. LBJ used fire against fire to pass civil rights, voting rights, open housing, Medicare, etc. because it was (and remains) the only way to govern in a nation filled with the "mass mind" mentality so well described by Jose Ortega y Gasset in his REVOLT OF THE MASSES. The current Obama "pussy-footing' just won't get the job done!

Obama, go on nationwide television and expose the greedy bastards with harsh, hard-hitting, blunt, pure facts and even some ad hominem language on the verge of bombast!!! Preach for an hour, maybe two or three hours, until all of the facts are on the table--so all Americans and those who speak for them will no longer have the excuse of ignorance! Study some General George Patton! Please, no more flowery, "reach across the aisle" or "rear end kissing" malarkey.

Treat the enemy (The National Corporate Security Statists) of the people as the enemy of the people. They are the same people who fought child labor, sweat-shop labor and pure food and drug reforms in a previous time. They are the same people, charlatans, who defend poisoning the air, water, soil and food for another dime of corporate profit while spouting religionist rhetoric which leaves out the part about "feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, ministering to the ill, clothing the naked...". They are Republicans and Republican sympathizers! They are mean, greedy, forked tongued hypocrites filled with the pus of avarice who have no concern for the American person!!! Treat them as such!

The way you describe them, the drug companies are incredible bullies who can and will get their way (big profits) one way or another. Somehow they have been given the upper hand and they are not about to withdraw it. What you state about the time it will take to implement any passed health care bill is true of every bill made into law, not to mention the other usually unrelated nonsense attachments that legislators insist on tacking onto so many bills before they can get through. If this time lag between passage and enactment is a given, why is congress adding to the process and giving the drug companies time to have it their way--unless, of course, Republicans really don't give a hoot about whether and when people who need health care receive it; it is a matter of life or death for so many Americans and these longwinded pompous asses make it a game!

Squareyellowpaper, it isn't a case of the drug companies outsmarting Obama. It is a case of the drug industry taking advantage of the popular perversion of our system which declares that anything designed to make a positive difference for the hard working American people is a "socialist" or "communist" conspiracy; a notion perpetrated by the actual anti-capitalist National Corporate Security Statists wrapped in the flag "Neo-Con" Republican oligarchists who improperly call themselves "conservatives"!!!

The working poor and middle income people--the actual victims of the moguls of insurance, drugs, for-profit hospitals--are the real culprits because they refuse to open their eyes, ears and minds so as to see, listen to and consider the realities all around them. No, they prefer the myth that anything big business does is right; that unbridled, laissez faire capitalism is ordained by God; that any regulation or oversight by government at any level is a sure road to totalitarian communism; that Texas is the only really American place left in the world today; that true conservatism means "greed is good" and that it is okay to work one's self to death making the rich richer because one day, before one dies, one might win the lottery or sell a song or write a $million best-seller.

The other culprit is the two-thirds rule in the Senate. While it is designed to be a protective device for the minority in the senate, it is the main reason some good legislation is, at times, virtually impossible to pass and that some bad legislation is also hard to pass. It has its place but the American people have had a hard time understanding that if they want "efficient" legislative processes, they need to give one party the power necessary to pass legislation; that is, several more than a two-thirds majority in the senate; thus, taking a chance that the super-majority party won't take too much advantage of that majority. That is the burden and the glory of a non-parliamentary democratic-republic.

As for Demdisorder, the billl is not a "100% democrats bill." Several hundred pervasive Republican committee amendments (passed to mollify Republicans) and the "abortion" provision (while carried by Stupak, it was passed by Republicans on the floor)--which is a "poison pill"--are major elements of "the bill"...

Squareyellowpaper, it isn't a case of the drug companies outsmarting Obama. It is a case of the drug industry taking advantage of the popular perversion of our system which declares that anything designed to make a positive difference for the hard working American people is a "socialist" or "communist" conspiracy; a notion perpetrated by the actual anti-capitalist National Corporate Security Statists wrapped in the flag "Neo-Con" Republican oligarchists who improperly call themselves "conservatives"!!!

The working poor and middle income people--the actual victims of the moguls of insurance, drugs, for-profit hospitals--are the real culprits because they refuse to open their eyes, ears and minds so as to see, listen to and consider the realities all around them. No, they prefer the myth that anything big business does is right; that unbridled, laissez faire capitalism is ordained by God; that any regulation or oversight by government at any level is a sure road to totalitarian communism; that Texas is the only really American place left in the world today; that true conservatism means "greed is good" and that it is okay to work one's self to death making the rich richer because one day, before one dies, one might win the lottery or sell a song or write a $million best-seller.

The other culprit is the two-thirds rule in the Senate. While it is designed to be a protective device for the minority in the senate, it is the main reason some good legislation is, at times, virtually impossible to pass and that some bad legislation is also hard to pass. It has its place but the American people have had a hard time understanding that if they want "efficient" legislative processes, they need to give one party the power necessary to pass legislation; that is, several more than a two-thirds majority in the senate; thus, taking a chance that the super-majority party won't take too much advantage of that majority. That is the burden and the glory of a non-parliamentary democratic-republic.

As for Demdisorder, the billl is not a "100% democrats bill." Several hundred pervasive Republican committee amendments (passed to mollify Republicans) and the "abortion" provision (while carried by Stupak, it was passed by Republicans on the floor)--which is a "poison pill"--are major elements of "the bill"...

The Congress passed a bill this year to "reform" credit cards and Obama cheered it through. As a result of the dems' credit card reform bill, the banks are restricted from charging deadbeats extra fees so they are going after the only people the dems didn't protect----the folks with good credit.

The drug companies have been bleeding America for years because we have the FINEST HEALTH CARE IN THE WORLD and the FREE MARKET works so well in health care and COMPETITION doesn't apply to them. Thank God we pass laws prohibiting us from negotiating better prices. The lobbyists have been helpful enough to write them for us. No need to change the system! Nothing happening here folks, walk away! Don't mess with the world's most expensive health care!

other countries don't only have generic drug companies, they have the same drug companies as the US, it's just that the government in those countries tells big pharma that they cannot charge anything they like for drugs, they have to charge a fair amount related to their real costs. Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that in the US we are told that the government t should have no role in anything, as it is always bad thing, in fact it is 'socialism'. Now who is telling us this? Why it is big business, and the banks, and their loyal servants in Congress who will do anything for their masters to keep those campaign funds rolling in.

Drug companies in other countries ARE American companies. Every major US drug manufacturer has a plant in Puerto Rico (guess why) and many drugs that you need a prescription for in continental US are OTC there and in many other countries as well. To get a prescription in this country first you must pay a physician, so the money mill goes round and round. I work in the pharmaceutical advertising industry and I can tell you that drug manufacturers are always pushing to sell you more drugs, even drugs that they know we as a population don't really need. Why do you think there is so much publicity about swine flu--so that the drug companies who cranked out that vaccine in massive quantities can scare enough people into thinking they will contract the flu and die without it, which is not the case for most healthy people. They must sell this vaccine while everyone is in panic mode because it will not be of any use when the next (different) strain of flu comes along next year--there is a pattern here. It amazes me how easily frightened Americans are but Congress doesn't seem to get it; they just continue to humor the drug companies because they are big business and what is good for business is (supposedly) good for America.

Dud, this ain't gonna add up... My job gets on a boat to India, so I get my drugs from the Internet because they're too expensive for me to get from the corner drugstore...

BTW, just what IS the other countries "share" of the costs and how is this this determined???

njoy - The "share" is the full price of the drug with all costs (r&d, manufacturing, marketing, delivery, etc) and profit margin included. If you want to sell in a particular market and they won't let you charge full price, then you've got to make up the difference by charging more than full price in another market.

Most likely, the difference in price bwteen the internet and the corner drugstore is a variation of this. The internet site can negotiate a lower price because of bulk purchases (plus it has less overhead), so the drugstore has to pay more to make up the difference.

njoy - I forgot to add that when a drug's patent expires, other countries won't pay as much for it as they did when it was under patent. Here in the US, the drug companies are allowed to continue charging the patent price. Don't know why, except for the usual suspects - political influence.

Ah, this old chestnut - that American companies do the research and take the hit for the costs and then the rest of the world benefits without paying.
All the big drug companies are truly multinational and even then only some are originally American in origin. Yes there are good labs and university basic science research institutes in the US, but the fact is that the majority of clinical trials on real patients are done outside the US now. This due to the incredible difficulty and expense in doing drug trials in the US (due mostly to the legal environment and very high markups everyone involved in the trial can and will charge) - those very high costs in getting a drug through all the regulatory hoops set by the FDA in the US are largely unjustified. The FDA is not wrong in its high standards its just that the costs of getting a drug to the patient in the US is much higher than anywhere else due to the for profit health system mentality. The European Union drug agency has similar standards to the US and yet the cost of trialling a new drug and licensing it in the EU are much cheaper.
Its quite common for major US universities to collaborate with major Canadian universities in running trials in Canada for this reason. This trend will continue as long as costs in the US are not controlled, and US consumers will pay ever more for prescription drugs.

Of course, they include government funded research in their costs, so we get to pay twice--once in tax dollars for research, and again for the freeloaders who market it.

@eroteme

You are so right--all the regulation that keeps us so safe from manufacturers marketing drugs that don't meet FDA standards are part of the cost of doing business and add to the price paid by consumers at the pharmacy counter. Notice, though, that there are still many drugs that are withdrawn from the market after the fact due to law suits (Vioxx, for example). We can't really have it both ways; that is, the position to sue legally if we are harmed by an FDA-approved drug but still expect to pay an acceptable price for our medications. Perhaps if America wasn't such a litigious nation we wouldn't be in a situation where we actually contribute to the expenses of health care. On the subway every morning I see several ads posted by law firms who specialize in malpractice suits--they are looking for business, too, so lawyers are an important part of the picture as well.

eroteme - I didn't say anything about the drug company costs being incurred in the US. It doesn't matter where they're incurred or why or whether they're a result of regulation or a "for profit health system mentality". Cost are costs and companies pass them on to the consumers. If they can't pass them on to everyone they'll pass them on to those who are willing (or forced) to pay.

The vast majority will not die from not taking their meds.

A culling?

Perhaps...

A very large share of drug sales (maybe the largest) is for cholesterol and hypertension. There are some whose high cholesterol and high blood pressure can't be controlled in any other way, but most would benefit from a better diet and some exercise. But we'd much rather take drugs than put down that Whopper, stub out that cigarette and get up from the couch - the drug companies know that.

Christ on a fucking cross Square. I respect a lot of your points but 180k a year and they just get by????? I live in Monmouth NJ and make 90K a year combined and have 1 child and i do just fine in fact i have a rental property - Why? Because I live within my means, I save my money, I invest when and where I can and i don't spend money on superfluous things, sure I have cable TV and a cell phone but if the important bills like my health insurance (which i gladly pay 1200/month for) or mortgage started to suffer i would throw out the "entitled" luxuries i have. That statement is fucking insulting. Maybe if people were actually smart with their money and kept their penis envy in check we'd all be in a better place instead of hearing about all the socialist programs we need to save people, save the poor, give them HC and by all means let them keep their cable TV's and nice cars and cells. I am getting so tired of the "average suffering" American.

Wow, $180K/yr and just getting by? How did I manage to raise 2 kids on less than 1/3 of that per year? I really do think there is a problem with that assessment; maybe they should sell their million dollar house and down size a little.

I agree. $180,000 is middle class

There is a law that prohibits Medicare from negotiating. It is absurd. We invest our money, The NIH invests money. Our citizens fund risky start-ups and we get stiffed. I used to be in the biz. I used a particular device that cost a little less than $600k here. I could buy the same device in the UK for $250 and for $150 in China. The companies treat the rest of the world as gravy. Are you telling me Switzerland can't pay retail? France? Sweden? Give me a break. I used to be the only Gentile in an all Jewish office. They would tell Gentile jokes over the intercom (today I could sue and be rich, but then I just laughed my ass off), the best one I remember was: "Why did God invent Gentiles? Somebody's got to pay retail." That is what this deal feels like.