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Health-Care Reform Passes in House
After an in-person push by President Obama and his fellow Democratic leaders kicked off an intense, daylong debate, the trillion-dollar health-care legislation was passed by House Democrats with a final vote of 220-215 late Saturday night. Thirty-nine Democrats voted against the health-care bill, along with every Republican except Joseph Cao of Louisiana. Meanwhile, the controversial abortion compromise passed with a vote of 240-194. The amendment to bar federal funding for most abortions was put in front of the House after Speaker Nancy Pelosi helped negotiate with two dozen anti-abortion Democrats over the bill. As expected, the Republican alternative health-care plan failed earlier in the night on a vote of 176-258, and Timothy Johnson of Illinois was the only GOP lawmaker to cross party lines. The historic vote ended with a triumphant Pelosi proclaiming "That was easy" as she left the floor, and after her tooth-and-nail fight for the bill, many are hailing health-care reform as more of a victory for the Speaker than for President Obama. "I think this is probably the biggest win she'll have in all the years she serves," said Rep. John Murtha.
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HOOORAY!!!
Well, there is finally a chance that the United states will no longer be the ONLY INDUSTRIALIZED, DEMOCRACY ON THE PLANET not to have all citizens covered.
I again challenge the "conservatives" to name a country they wouldn't mind living in that does NOT have universal healthcare.... Note Australia, Israel and all of our NATO allies have it. (minus maybe Turkey)
Finally a proud and gigantic step towards stopping the the terrible crime of the massacre of 122 Americans a day; 7000 dead by Christmas; 19,000 fallen by Easter for only the lack of health coverage. ( http://tinyurl.com/l7cy8u )
A 9-11 of cherished Americans will perish by this Thanksgiving for no other determining factor than lack of health coverage.
If we learn at last to look through the lens of the beloved community, the human lens, rather than the myopic partisan lens, we can make smart and tender history.
We should be proud of the House -- it indeed did the people's work in deed.
I am quite sure the Party leaders in the respective districts, know which way their representatives voted. If the vote was contrary to the wants of the people of that district, an impact will be felt in the next election process. It may be helpful to review how your representative voted and let him/her know what you feel about it. And while you are doing that, let your Senators know you feelings as well. If you really want a health reform bill passed, don't sit back and watch, get active in helping fight for the issue. The fight is in the Senate now, and the Big Ins. is sure to step up its pressure on the Senate, particularly those they already have their claws into. The only currency we have to spend is, our opinions. Let them know, who knows, some Senators may value the people more than the campaign financing. After all there was even one Republican who voted for the people. Imagine that.
Case,
I dare you to name a country where nationalized medicine actually works. France's healthcare is deep in debt and going broke. Same thing for Great Britain where they ration care.
Glenda- um, all of them. Yes, the French healthcare system is expensive but it's still cheaper than ours and is ranked number one in the world. It's also not nationalized but rather a hybrid of private and public options. Health care is always going to be expensive but if it's run as a public service (with private options for those who want to pay a little extra for the gold plated health care) rather than a money-making business, quality will go up and costs will go down.
If you need a clearer indicator that an all private health care system doesn't work, how about the fact that no country with universal health care coverage is even considering changing to something like our system. Worldwide, voices in the health care debate are more concerned with the good of the people rather than pushing their ideology and if there's a better system out there, they'll adopt it (like we're trying to do now). Other countries see that our system is a disaster for everyone except the insurance companies. I deal with a lot of non-American students and travelers in my work and most of them are terrified of getting sick in the US.
In the UK, the NHS is so popular that even the Conservatives are pledging to expand the program. I'm sure in 20-30 years when the right wing disinformation campaign has failed and everyone is reaping the benefits of an improved, public health care program we'll see our own Conservatives conveniently forgetting their past (again) and doing the same.
Oh yeah? well, France may be in debt and going broke, but SO ARE WE smarty.
And at least people can get decent healthcare there, like I did for 12 years, and very gratefully, at that.
And you guys who always think America is better at everything -- why can't you think that America will to healthcare better, too, eh? Maybe we will! Get your patriotism going in the right direction.
It is indeed amazing how some people refuse to see what is staring them in the face. Virtually all industrialized nations have figured out how to provide for their people's health. The U.S. is nearly the worst at doing that, when it should be the best.
And as Dingle said yesterday, we'll now be able to compete with all those countries, whose products are cheaper to manufacture, because they offer a public plan. I can't believe the republicans are against that. But then again, anything's possible from these greedy, short-sighted, selfish bastards. Horray is right! At last. The knuckle dragging neanderthals themselves will see, once their grandchildren report back on their highly improved healthcare and our economy will begin to flourish again once we can compete fairly in the world's marketplace. Thank you dems and that one republican with a conscience (see, they're not all bad!)
My cousin lives in Switzerland, where she raises her children because she feels it's a better life for them. She married a Swiss national and thanks to email, we're able to stay in touch. Their healthcare system is excellent and she cannot understand why we would be so opposed to having quality, affordable, healthcare. She feels the only possible explanation is that our media, financed by pharmaceutical and insurance companies, has brainwashed our citizens with fear and disinformation. Imagine that!
DeeAmbro- that's the opinion of every non-American I've spoken to about health care. They can't believe that adding a public option is even an issue, much less one that people so passionately oppose. I really wish the anti-reform people would sit down for an honest conversation with people who live in countries with public health care so they can see just how much they're being misled by scare-tactics.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid they want to be misled.
Hoo-RAY! Now we all have healthcare! Hoo-RAY!
Now I wonder when Nancy Pelosi will keep her 2005 promise and cut off funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Plantkin's having a bad weekend, so bad she's digging into the vault for "Those oldies but goodies remind me of Michelle Plantkin, those songs from the past bring back memories of you..."
what does it cost? what does it cover? $1.5 trillion dollars later we discover it will cost 4 times more....
It can't be soon enought for me, Plant. Then maybe our country will be able to get back on a better financial footing. These wars are bankrupting us. (And I say that in every blog I write.) BTW, Nancy Pelosi isn't the only representative in the House. Maybe the others have something to say, too. Hmm? But will the Rep war lovers vote to end the war in Afghanistan? I don't think so. They want to win, whatever that means.
Now, Game On!
Ditch the Dems, Bounce Obozo, Pitch Palosi Reject Reid,
I am going to be forced by the IRS to participate, can you say Unconstitutional!
All those who signed on to this have committed treason by definition. Soros must be laughing, he is on the way to destroy America.
Wow........ Yet another broken promise by the anointed one, it will cost less than 900 billion, They missed that mark and thats before its combined with the Senates bill. So whats the real cost gonna, 2 trillion and the death of your Constitutional Liberties. But then again whats a few liberties verse the belief of the greater good of some self righteous liberal Democrats who know whats best for you. Who don't think that they will be paying for it(guess they should of read it). So when the check comes, all of you people who think this is a great idea it will be to late to say "I didnt want this".
Obama's mantra---If you work you'll have less, and if you don't, I'll give you more.
What a plan, bring on the 2010 elections and see what the voters think.
You Cons are insane.
While I country was actually being destroyed/bankrupted and the Constitution being used as toilet paper you were cheering and happy as a pig in Shi .
Now when our tax dollars are actually going to be spent in our own country instead of on the worst foreign policy decision in our countries history your mad.
A trillion wasted in Iraq. Patritotic
A trillion spent in America on our own health care. Treasonous.
You have no idea how insane you are.
again, you so-called Americans -- you always think america's better at everything, but when we do something like this, you naysay it ! Well, start saying American can do healthcare better than everyone, if you believe we're the best. Maybe we can!
HDway1
You guys are great at two or three words at a time, but sorely lack any depth of message. Why not take some time to think up four or five sentences that are all related to each other and try again. Moron!
HDway1 - Stop assuming outcomes based off of emotion. Is it too much to ask for a conservative to be objective??
Bullsh#t, HDway. I am being "forced by the IRS to participate" in wars I don't agree with. I am forced to see abortion not covered by public funds because some people have religious views against it. Give me a break. You are listening to too much propaganda from the right.
Having lived in two countries with national health schemes, I wish you all the luck in the world. You will need it when you try to obtain timely and effective treatment for anything serious that ails you.
As for Australia, Case 1234, last time I was there, ambulances with accident victims were being turned away from 2 or 3 Emergency Rooms for lack of staff and wait times for "elective" surgery like hernias and hip replacement were 8 months and 2 years respectively. You could get crutches while you waited for your new hip though. The hospital system is still a scandal and hospitals are closing wards for lack of funds.
But none of this matters. The important thing is that everyone in the US will be covered and your parents and grandparents won't have to pay for Medicare Advantage because it won't exist. Your own insurance might not exist for very long either.
Your satisfaction will come from knowing you are AS GOOD AS THE OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED DEMOCRACIES. Or as stupid.
I moved to Canada after Bush won his second term, so I currently live in a country with "national healthcare".
What is being proposed by the sane members of Congress in no way, shape or form emulates Canada's system. My sister lives in Britain. Again, no comparison between the two. (good or bad, simply not the same).
So when the lunatic ghouls run around and fear people into believing their line of crap about the horrid examples of "government run" healthcare with pictures of stacked bodies of murdered Jews (how in the world they got to that illogical conclusion must be a subject of great interest and discussion between their mental health advisors and the nuts who produced them, even more disturbing to the poor folks who live next door to these lunatics), two things :
1) this US plan is NOT even close to other "government run" healthcare
2) study the mortality and morbity rates of those awful countries who do have national health care plans. US comes up way short.
Incorrect- unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence. Average wait time for elective surgery in Australia is around 30 days.
http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/hse/hse-71-10776/hse-71-10776-c06.pd f
I can't help being depressed that the healthcare bill will not pass the Senate. If it does, it will be stripped of most of what we Dems and women want. Abortion is LEGAL. Stop trying to have payment for the procedure taken out of the bill. How about taking out payment for prostate surgery? How do you think that would go over?
About bloody time. Hey, is that pain in my butt covered yet?
You better hope so, because that pain is about to get much worse.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
Careful what you wish for!! She probably has teeth or at least dentures!
i thought you were gay why would you wont that?
YAY! America leaves the Dark Ages and comes into the modern age!
More like back to dark tax and spend days of the 60's. But this too shall pass when all the whacked out nutjobs who just want to feel good grow up.
The "Dark Ages of America" ended when George W. Bush and the republicans were given the door in '06 and 08!
You mean the whacked out nut jobs like Bachmann, Rush, Glen, Boehner, Cantor, V. Fox, and all the rest of the whacked out nutjobs? Oh, but wait. They do NOT want anyone to feel good - health wise or other. They want everyone to feel very, very scared -very, very bad, so they can gleefully preside over a dark, dark country. Boo!!
If taxes go up, spending will be less.....as the economy struggles to recover...
Hooray! Now we are really on the road to Socialism. I am so excited. I cannot wait to hear what Barak and his cretins have planned next!
If you don't like this country, Get On Out!
wrathofkhan, many of us are out or on our way out of this country. You can have all your illegal aliens, I am going to a country that keeps track of whose in their countries and folks I have lived abroad my whole life and I have never seen such a mess as my own country. I am much happier OUT.
Sandra lives in the Vatican, the only place where illegal immigration is nonexistent.
Really, that kind of anti-American, unpatriotic, treasonous rhetoric is not welcome here. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
Bye bye, Sandra. Does that also mean you won't be darkening the towels on TDB anymore?
Free speech is banned in the USA under the DD. If you don't agree with wrathofkhan you can't live here.
Isabella darling, we're just giving you back what you've been dishing out for the past 8 years. Haven't you been paying attention?
wrathofkhan
Or, stick around and try to fix it. running away is too easy, have some gonads.
SandraZ8122
Good luck finding that non-existent Utopia you seek. I moved to Canada to get away from the Bush Crowd. Canada seek out immigrants. I also spent many years in Britain and Japan. Maybe you should move to a country where all these evil immigrants come from. Only countires I know that would fit your requirements. And you think you have it hard in the US? Wait until you try to speak up for America in a foreign country that fits your needs. Maybe you will get out alive when you try to flee back to the country that allows all of us to voice our opinions.
soonchercher
Try Google on "Socialism" you moron. Socialism is the control by the government of production and distribution of commodities. It has nothing to do with public entitlements like health care, education, social security, etc. Then go back to your simple, senseless, name calling; it's the one thing you are at least consistent at if not really good at.
Stop worring about Socialism. We have had various versions of it for years and I, personally like it. I love my Medicare, Social Security and my husband really needs his VA care. Soonchurcher, you live in the dark ages, or would like to. Don't accept medicare or social security when you are eligible and tell us how you are doing.
Wrong republican named.
It was Cao (R-La.) who voted for the Bill, not Timothy Johnson.
Nevertheless, hooray for BiPartsanship ;->
The article was referring to Timothy Johnson as the lone Republican who voted against the abortion amendment. Rep. Cao, was the only Republican to vote for HR 3962.
It's hilarious to see the Dumb-o-crats here cheering. Ask any of them what's in the bill, how much it will cost them, what will be covered/not covered, etc., and none of them knows.
They're mind-numbingly ignorant and happy about it. Legislation gets passed and they haven't a clue about what means, but they're thrilled.
LMAO at stupid and ignorant Dumb-o-crats.
PS--what kind of idiot says YAH! America leaves the Dark Ages and comes into the modern age? Only a clueless idiot who doesn't know the US leads the world in medical innovation.
GAWD, the stupidity is breathtaking!
What good is leading the world in medical advancement when only 20% of Americans can afford the remedy!
thats like saying America leads the way in anti-venom there for no american should worry about being poisoned while the cure cost 5 million a dose...lol! thats why we rank lower in healthcare than most developed and developing nations, becuase they recognize that healthcare is not a priviladge meant only for the rich, but a right to healthy survival that benefits the unity of a country! hell even China has unversal care!
Like every other field, failing to fund medical advancement has left us playing catch up to Eastern Europe in neurosurgery and to seveal eastern countries in medical technology. American exceptionalism has been greatly exaggerated while the nation slipped into decline over the past two decades. Denial only serves to maintain the status quo.
The only way we lead in medical advancement is when it is profitable for the health insurance companies or big pharma. When we drive the insurance companies out of healthcare there will be a renaissance of medical advances.
xcat, it's our dear country's insistent delusionalism which is so crippling of genuine advance.
Khnum21, it is our medical companies that are making these remedies cheaper for these other countries, why, because if the medical company wants to develop in that foreign country, the government officials of that country demand they lower their prices.
So our medical companies LOWER their prices when dealing with foreign countries, but not for their own countrymen, how pathetic? Our government won't ever stick up for its own people.
Americans are too arrogant and that is what is wrong with this country. We need to come down a step or two and see what the other countries are getting and WHY they are getting it and WE are not.
Sandra, maybe you can do some investigative reporting on this issue from your new country.
SandraZ, you're right. Three years ago, while traveling in Ireland, my son had a sudden severe allergy attack. We were out in the countryside for the day and I didn't think to bring his medication...he was fine at the hotel and this type of reaction was extremely rare. So we started looking for a pharmacy. We found one in a small town and I went in to see what I could find. Lo and behold, there I found, over the counter, his prescription medicine for $13.00. No mess, no fuss and a savings of $87.00 over the U.S. cost, unobtainable without a prescription (so, add the cost of the doctor's visit to that price as well). Why would we not want that over what we have now? A friend told me last week about her co-worker's travels to Russia, so she could get healthcare. So, it's cheaper to fly to Russia (Russia!!!!!) to get healthcare than to pay out of pocket here. The only people not on board with this must be people who already have good healthcare through their employer or those that already have a socialist, government-run health care plan, Medicare! Open your eyes...and your hearts!
Reply to EtienneEtoile:
"
The only way we lead in medical advancement is when it is profitable for the health insurance companies or big pharma."
Who do you think invents new miracle drugs?
Who will invent them when there is no profit to be had after decades of research and development? The new Drug Czar?
Yes, the stupidity is breathtaking, yours, Republicans own this bill too, more than you know, consider the Stupak Amendment, you own it, so get over it, and the dark ages are still with us because of it.
You mean taxpayers didn't pay for other peoples abortions in the Dark Ages?
Abortion is not health care fool. Remember your favorite word for it? Choice.
Republicans own this bill too? 1 Republican (from a democratic area) voted for it. Already trying to make excuses? Too funny!
176 Republicans voted yes for the amendment that affects women's health, a neanderathal like you is clueless.
Only one Republican voted for this bill. Americans will take notice of this poor decision on the part of the the GOP. The Republicans will lose more seats in congress in the next elections! This is a day for cautious celebration. The Republicans in the Senate somehow have to find the courage to vote for health care reform. Which two or three will vote for the bill with Dems? Which Blue Dogs will be encouraged by the House vote?
Abortions have lowered the birth rate in the US for mostly white people. It has lowered the CRIME rate of white people not committing crimes, possibly because they weren't born to commit them.
However other races do not believe in abortions and they have astronomical crime rates, with people going around shooting in the damn streets and it is not safe to even visit these countries.
Illegal aliens come here and poop out kids by the yard, and then suddenly start to realize, that only one or two children is better than a whole football team, that the quality of life is better and the parents get to live like human beings instead of work horses, that the quality of life for their children is better all the way around.
We need to globalize this world to change ideas and the way people who are living in less than dark ages think and feel instead of pooping out twelve children at a time per family. This line of thinking will also limit the way third world countries wage their stupid wars.
If there are no men to fight, they cannot fight with anyone. We need abortions, they make all our lives better and would that we could do it globally would be even better.
We cannot possibly feed all these people, no one can, it is out of control!
African American people are also catching on and wanting abortions more and more because being pregnant and raising children is the pits.
There is no hope of having a quality life with four children or eight children, who most of them go the wrong way in life, and why? Because no one can possibly raise them and give them the quality life they deserve and education and promise them a decent job, etc.
Less children means a better way of living and a quality of life. People raise them and hate them or put them up for adoption and foster homes where they get abused even more and they eventually grow up to be criminals or whores or something they so did not get the chance to be and they resent it and they hate.
Better to have never been born. I wish my mother got an abortion with me.
SandraZ8122:
Better to have never been born. I wish my mother got an abortion with me.
---
I second that wish.
Wow. If that's really the way you feel, Sandra, I can see where some of the dark stuff you say on this site comes from. You probably need to stop getting worked up and passionate over politics and look after yourself and go get some help. I'm not being snarky or condescending, I'm being serious.
I've lived in Europe and enjoyed decent healthcare.
GAWD!! Leave the trailer park every now and then! And stop watching F*cktard News.
I live in America and enjoy superb health care.
Trailer park? F*cktard News? Oh my, you ARE ignorant. Honestly, you simpleton thinkers are a bore.
Good advice!
Really, you have superb health care? Sounds like someone who has not ever been seriously sick with a major illness. Only then do you find out the limits to what your health insurance company really does or does not cover.
Does superb health care include turning down health coverage of babies because they are "too fat", or children because they are "too skinny"? Does it mean calling pregnancy a pre-existing condition? Does it mean terminating treatment for PAYING clients?
I wish I had a trailer and a trailer park to live in. Them there trailer parks are nice and cozy. They can't allow too many people in because the insurance companies won't cover them if they do.
Some of those trailers are really nice. Where else can you afford a house or trailer as it were and still have your little piece of land and sit on your front porch? Have friendly neighbors and live very cheaply?
Sounds like your pride is in the way. A good place to live is a good place to live. Having a roof over your head is the most important thing here.
Being able to see a doctor when you need one is also probably the third most important thing, I would say first is a roof over your head, second food on the table and third health care when you need it.
I keep telling you guys, CAPITALISM HAS GONE TOO FAR.
Abortion choice is not so that less minority children will be born, dimwit. There are many medical reasons to have an abortion and I don't want some religious senator or representative pushing his nose into my personal business because HE doesn't believe in it. I do! And it is LEGAL.
You can lead the world in medical innovation, but making that medical innovation to all Americans is more important. If medical innovations from the US are only used in France, China, Israel, and Chile, what advantage are they to Americans?
Exactly!
I know quite a bit about what's in the Bill and so do many others. Just because the Rethugs on Capitol Hill are too lazy or mentally challenged to read it is not our fault. Tell your Representatives to do their homework and get off the Capitol steps to read a bill of more than 15 pages.
Oh, and wait until all the lies told to get this passed come to fruition. 'It will be deficit neutral' (ha ha). Health care for illegals? "Simply not true," said Obama. 'If you're happy with what you have, you'll be able to keep it.' Blah, blah, blah.
The cost of France's system is bursting at the seams and has been operating in the red for decades, but ours will be deficit neutral. Canadians come to the US to get treatment they can't get in Canada or have to have their name picked from a lottery for a doctor, but if you're happy with your health care, nothing will change.
The list is endless. Unfortunately, Dumb-o-crats don't read the foreign press and are clueless about the enormous problems in health care systems they applaud.
Idiots.
Anything that is vile in this bill belongs to the catered to A**hole Republicans, so STFU.
Oops, getting angry because you know all the lies told by the Dems will be revealed?
Is that you Sarah, telling lies again!
I live in Canada and you are full of BS!!!!!!
I guess it's your newspapers that are lying then. Would you like links?
You have no idea obviously what took place, you are the one who is angry and you have no reason why. Republicans are a**holes.
Lucky you live in Canada, be grateful not arrogant!
From Huffington Post and You Tube:
One of the unfortunate side-effects of the often confused health care reform discourse is the way so many perfectly nice health care systems that operate in some perfectly pleasant foreign nations have been caught in the crossfire. Writing on these pages, Allison Kilkenny chronicled the way British citizens defended their own National Health Service from the slings and arrows of outrageous talking points. Twitter users may remember outspoken Brits defending the NHS on messages accompanied by a #welovetheNHS hashtag.
Well, the Canadians, who use a nationally-funded single-payer system, aren't going to sit back and let American politicians slag the health care that they love, either! So, from Karoli at U.S. Health Crisis comes a video of several Canadians offering up some real talk on what health care is like in the Great White North. Guess what? They like it! And they are a wee bit vexed and perplexed by what people in America have been saying about it.
[WATCH]
The blogger behind the video said that she tried to get some negative views and failed:
In the spirit of truth, my friend Matte Black (@Shoq on Twitter) and his brother took their video camera to Canada on vacation to interview Canadians about their health care system. When we talked about it, I asked him to try to get negative views with specifics for balance. Here is the result. It has been edited for brevity, but the negative views were not removed, because there were none. He could not find one Canadian who thought they should kill the system.
My favorite part of the video is when the Canadians are asked about their "co-pay," and they all basically stare at the camera as if they've been asked, "Prithee! Would you like to wear my peanut butter fancypants, this merry Midsummer morning?"
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT--FROM EXPERIENCE--NO ONE CARES!
Get over yourself already. I know Canadians who have homes in AZ and they use the US system.
I've been reading Canadian newspapers for years and have read NUMEROUS stories related to the many problems with their health care system.
People are sent to the US in EMERGENCY, LIFE THREATENING situations because their emergency rooms can't accommodate them. Some placers do have a lottery. Their wait times are horrific compared to the US. I've listened to endless horror stories from Canadians.
For crissakes, a woman had to be flown to the US to deliver her quads because no Canadian hospital had enough neonatal intensive care beds for all 4 babies.
Several American border city hospitals have agreements with Canada to accommodate Canadians because Canada can't.
You're a liberal ideologue, nothing more. Your spin only works in a liberal echo chamber.
And because you live in a liberal echo chamber, you're unaware that the far majority of Americans are happy with their health care. Reform is one thing, but this massive overhaul is disastrous. And when the majority who were happy become less happy, well watch out Dems.
Take you spin elsewhere; I'm too smart and knowledgeable.
Willabay doth protest too much, and merely repeats gossip. HAHA
Sorry, won'ta -- as a self-employed person I haven't had health care since 1979 -- nor have any of the other self-employed people I know. Now *that's* a long line. The 45,000 million Americans with zero health coverage would love to be in *any* line. Your ignorance abides, sadly.
Take every child, woman, and man in the states of Georgia, Indiana, North Dakota, North Carolina, and Virginia -- and that's the equivalent of how many Americans have zero health coverage. Your ordure about Canada is a joke.
As my Canadian entrepreneur friend said to me, "What the Hell is the matter with you people?"
Willaboy,
I am sure that we can all provide anectodal statements of discontent with OUR healthcare system in which insured folks get substandard care..Here let me give you one..
A 19 year old athlete goes to the emergency after a shoulder injury from a football game..He complains of severe left shoulder pain..The diagnosis is torn tendon he is put in a sling and sent home..The next day the athlete is brought back to the emergency complaining that the pain has not subsided.. He is reassessed and the same diagnosis is provided. He is sent home with a mild pain medication. That evening he goes into a cardiac arrest and dies. autopsy results show massive cardiac damage to the posterior left ventricle..
I am sure that if you asked these parents what they thought of the care their son received, you might get a negative answer.
I work in healthcare and travel the globe. I can tell you that Canada has probably the best pediatric practioners in the world. Many of the Pediatric and Neonatal physicians practicing in the US receive their training at Toronto Childrens Hospital. They come to the US because they can get paid more A further drain on the Canadian system, which you decry as substandard because of long waiting lines. Do you think our recruiting of these young minds contribute to this waiting list? Me thinks yes..
Your anectodal statement that a woman had to be flown to US for the delivery of her four premature babies occurs right here in the US as well.
In my earlier career, I transported high risk mothers via helicopter to the larger centers where they could receive the optimal care. Our team flew out DAILY to pick up premature babies, sometimes going as far as 300-400 miles
I live near a major metropolitan area, out of the 15 hospitals in a 30 mile radius, there is only ONE that provides the expertise required to care for these small babies. Should we be idignant about this reality? No, to expect every hospital to have this expertise is not realistic as the cost to support would take our health care cost into the 12 trillion area.
If there is a hospital on the border of Canada and the US, the transport team MUST take the mother to the closest neonatal center. You see the optimal care of the patient is what is important, and the nearest hospital may not be equiped to provide that care..
Wake up.. Not every hospital does open heart surgery, not every hospital provide 24 hour trauma care, not every hospital has a neonatal nursery.. Right here in the US.
I am Canadian and what you are saying is simply nonsense! Who are all these Canadians going to the US for treatment? What about all of the Americans who come to Canada for treatment? A lottery to see a doctor. It's amazing how easy it is to propagandize some people
Americans ignore the fact that Americans are traveling to Canada, Eastern Europe, and Asia for healthcare. They have been told the American Exceptionalism lie for so long that they ignore facts altogether.
How embarrassing for you that you're a Canadian yet so ignorant about what is going on in Canada.
Canada's doctor lottery:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/08/07/ national-post-editorial-board-betting-your-health-care-on-canada-s-doctor-l ottery.aspx
Pierretrudeau, obviously, you hear things that pertain to you, and others hear things that outrage them and they remember it. I myself have worked with Canadians across the border from Illinois, US soil, and I have heard both really good things and some very bad things.
As with any race of people, I have to say that, there is good and bad in every race of people and there are good and bad in every country. I truly love everybody and hate evil no gooders and people that hurt innocents. I also hate bullies.
But you have to take everything you hear with a grain of salt. I have worked with people that have yelled at me and blamed me for all their troubles and crashed in the roof on top of me. Then return two days later and apologize profusely to me and tell me they were having a hard time with their new car or their wife was yelling at him or some such tail.
There is good and bad in the US and there is good and bad in Canada. I'm afraid it is like that the world over. Humans are humans.
My Canadian friend loves her healthcare. My cousin loves his healthcare in France. Citizens of Denmark love the health care they receive. My retired friends go to Mexico on vacation and have dental work done.I live close to the Canadian border, our seniors take bus trips to buy meds in Canada. I could go on and on.
We are not perfect America.Change may be good.I hope so.
In before you get what you pay for.
Not that this is a bill that compares US to Canadian healthcare. But as a Canadian who has spent equal time in both countries I can say that our healthcare is certainly NOT in the top ten to emulate. We have serious problems with healthcare--I was made to wait almost a month for a simple D&C; I know people who have more complex operations made to wait much longer; mental healthcare in Canada is medieval and could stand to learn a lot from the US system; and I think emergency services, as Natasha Richardson's death has shown, are lamentable. And to completely disagree, I know of many Canadians who go to the USA for treatment. I am one of them.
On the other side of this issue, French and Australian healthcare are great! Even healthcare in the UK for all its problems is excellent as well compared to Canada. The USA needs socialized medicine and this bill is a step in that direction but fare from it. My question is how free-lance, middle-class Americans will be covered? I don't see this bill as doing much to help the middle class and this is simply sad.
Weather you are happy or unhappy with the healthcare coverage you have it was unlikely that you were going to be able to keep it unless you were able to pay the increasing cost. Believing that your employer was going to continue to supply you with healthcare insurance is unrealistically optimistic. Many have already been faced with their rising cost and decreasing benefits for the coming year. Obama corrected his rhetoric recognizing that there are no guarantees that whatever insurance you currently have will be available to you at a cost you can afford.
By the way, American's who can foot the bill now travel to Eastern Europe for complex neurosurgery and to Asia for advanced medical technology. Treatment that they cannot get in the U S. There is a reason why 70% of the medical community supports healthcare reform.
Right. They can go to the Cleveland Clinic in Dubai and get the same quality health care that they could get in Cleveland, OH. That makes sense...........
70% of the medical community supports healthcare reform?
Try grasping the difference between health care reform and this $1.2 trillion debacle.
Gee, Carole, your argument hardly enables a mature debate, I am sure there are other clinics in Europe and Asia. Please list all the information you have on this subject so we can debate properly. Rather inappropriate behavior on your part, my my.
Problem is Carole, as usual, you're not fighting for anything, you have just been a sore all along because "Barry" became President of the United States.
adjustment-
sore loser, Carole.
Lies like the Iraq war. I bet you are still waiting for the Iraqi oil to pay for the Iraq war.
Willaboy, I got my medications from Canada for years because they were less expensive that the ones I got here, even tho' most of them came from the U.S. Go figure.
From Canada with Love...
Congratulations to America, the President of the United States of America, Barak Obama, the Members of Congress and to the late Ted Kennedy for the vision and determination in meeting this challenge with committment and heart for the benefit of the American people.
As an American who has lived in a nation with universal health care you will soon realize the benefits of this new legislation for yourself and the future generations.
A healthy nation is a happy and prosperous nation!
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Willow207. We need you all's inspiration in furthering our own infant steps towards the beloved community version of a nation and of a world. We'll get there -- it is prayerfully to be hoped before *next* century.
Healthy nation? This is a drug infested war zone!!!! Well, the new liberal dictators got their way again, but their victory is our loss, their bill is so flawed that it is destined for disaster, like everything else these leftist bureaucrats touch. We will pay more for less service, get used to it, that's the kind of government you elected!!! I really hope the poor will get access to some decent healthcare, but somehow I feel very naive saying that!!!! God help us, we need a miracle but, instead, we got Pelosi and associates. Obama just works for her, in case you thought it was the other way around!!!
The hope is to "become" a healthy nation once this legislation is passed. If you are infested it is due to neglect and abuse of previous leaders who have fought against a better nation, a healthier nation.....
Bittersweet. Hopefully the Senate will take the Stupid Amendment OUT or water it down to appease those who wish this government was a Theocracy.
It will pass thru the Senate no problem... but the Stupak Amendment makes me sick to my stomach.
It's a big step on the road to Medicare for All.
BTW even if it's not in the bill, if the lack of coverage is found to be discriminatory, it can be enforced by the courts.
I'd like to thank all of the Republicans in Congress for their support in passing this bill.
Without their tireless efforts in diverting the nation's attention to side issues like death panels, veteran's benefits and gutting Medicare, more attention might have been been devoted to the actual difficult details of the legislation.
Buy focusing on far-out and easily disprovable controversies, the Republicans played a critical role in thoroughly discrediting the arguments against health care reform.
This was a courageous and selfless act because, in the end, most Republicans had to sacrifice every last shred of dignity and credibility to achieve this outcome.
Boehner, Cantor, Foxx, and of course, Bachmann, grateful nation is forever in your debt.
Bachmann is finished.
Finished?
When did she "start"?
She got in there, and we have seen way too much of her, I will be happy, so happy to see her heels. Maybe she will move north, tee hee.
Your ignorance is not surprising. Obviously, you don't follow the polls. That's what happens when you live in a liberal echo chamber.
And thanks for your congratulations, but women have a teensy weensy problem with the amendment that was passed before the vote on the bill.
polls, ratings, will get you and yours nowhere, and you are no bright bulb, just a whiner.
Bachmann is just getting started!
cbeenthere. Just to point out a counterpoint. I do not support abortions except for the usual, rape, incest, risk to the mother. But i have to say, all the moaning about the amendment perplexes me. Its not like the local planned parenthood will break you financially for an abortion.
Hey you got it, this dripping enchilada is all yours, hope you don't choke on it!!!! You will of course, but then we can actually test this sucker, see how you enjoy the wonderful service your great new and improved socialist government provides!!! Good luck!!!!
Bitter, bitter, osea
why do the Tea baggers on this site act like they can't read whe it comes to the illegal immigrent portion of this subject! Obama said that nothing in this bill will aid illegal aliens in getting healthcare, and they are competely out of the running for the public option which is for legal citizens and immigrents only! the only argument they have is that illegals can still buy insurance from the exchange of companies, which they already have been doing since incurance companies came into existance! we have never made it illegal for anyone living in this country legally or illegally to buy health insurance from private companies and we never will! to do so would be truly socialistic in nature, not the fake socialisim Cons cry about while they tea bag eachother in the public square...lol! ;)
Modern American Right Wing thought process:
Step 1: Believe something based on gut feeling, fear/prejudice, because you heard it on talk radio/FOX News or because it fits into the ideology you've adopted.
Step 2: Seek out confirmation of this belief while ignoring any facts to the contrary. Sources don't matter. Hearsay and allegations hold equal weight with studies and professional research.
Step 3: Repeat beliefs into the echo chamber so they amplify and seem to be more widespread and generally accepted than they really are. A small number of people shouting makes more noise and gets more attention than many people talking.
Step 4: Vehemently oppose any compromise or reasoned discussion from opponents and allies alike. Purge the ranks if necessary. Argue- never debate. Disrespect your opposition and treat them as your enemy. Slander if necessary.
Step 5: Repeat.
That's awesome! Well said.
Step 5. Why finish high school when you might be able to get a GED
Step 6. Why send your children to school when you with your GED can teach them at home while yall sit in front of the TV.
well stated Honcho..
You need to read Victor Hanson and Mark Steyn and Thomas Sowell to give a little balance to your immature rant. A well educated conservative will run circles around your arguments.
Justice Clarence Thomas doesn't do it, painter, and he is a well educated conservative.
Not sure if that "immature rant" remark is directed at me, painter, but if it is I think you're missing the point. I wasn't saying that all conservatives by definition make intellectually weak arguments. I was saying that the state of the modern American right wing is a whole lot of passion and ideology without much thought or regard for facts behind it. It's seeking confirmation instead of seeking solutions. It's an anti-intellectual movement that has dragged the level of discourse in this country down to the grade school name calling that both sides engage on all over this website.
There are intellectual conservatives who I disagree with sometimes and agree with sometimes. I certainly respect a conservative who seems to have put some thought into their positions a hell of a lot more than the current crop of DJs, demagogues and talking heads who represent the right. Most of these charlatans have barely seen the inside of a college classroom and are content play upon fear and prejudice while depending on the fact that their audience wants to agree with them so badly that they will take everything at face value and never do any fact checking or seek out any opposing viewpoints. That's a despicable combination of lying and stupidity and I'd oppose it on the right, left, top, bottom or inside out. It's just plain bad for America.
I'm not familiar with the people you mentioned other than Mark Steyn, and all I know about him is his absurd assertions that Europe is going to have a Muslim majority in 10 years. I will seek out the others because I like to challenge my beliefs regularly, although honestly, my whole argument is that it's the right wing who should be reading these books to bring some intellectual heft to the debate rather than just repeating what they heard on TV or the radio.
Finally, I think most of the left leaning posters on TDB would welcome a debate with a well educated conservative. Please, by all means, if you can find one- send them here.
Judging by your spelling, I'm worried about your ability to read. You obviously don't follow things closely. HR3200 stated that taxpayers would not fund coverage for illegals and Democrats claimed the same thing YET in the nitty-gritty of the legislation (as opposed to what is said), there was no mechanism required for proof of legal status like what exists in other federally-funded programs like Medicaid (and the Dems voted down amendments to include the language).
Since negotiations were going on until the last minute, you don't know what's in it.
I prefer to see what the Congressional Research Service says, which analyzes bills, and not listen to the BS of politicians.
The House did not pass HR 3200, they passed HR 39622! You're referring to the wrong bill. So who doesn't "follow things closely"? Like your reps in Congress you rant and rave about something you know nothing about.
Ah, if I only saw similar arch fervor and vigilance against colossally wasteful weapons systems, I might be able to respect your perspective -- or at least your consistency . . .
Willaboy, from looking at your comments you position yourself on platform thinking. Unfortunately, you will not be able to think critically and making up "facts" might make you look less credible and intelligent. Good luck!
What facts have I made up?
The GOP can eat it now....Chicago style.
Yaaaa... i love president Obama he's so hot
You and your libbie friends will be screwed Chicago style.
Obama is not a true Chicago person, his wife is. He moved here remember?
Most of the crooked republicans making those ugly comments( lies ) here;probably work for a health insurance company or
are unethical medical doctors and unethical dentists.These crooks are beginning to understand that their cash cow is
going to end very soon.
These crooks ( the unethical medical doctors and the
unethical dentists ) if they want to keep making ( stealing ) inflated salaries need to become basket-ball players or they
should become crooked republican senators ( whores of the
health care industry ) like Lieberman and his wife.
After the single payer Public Health Care Bill passes
the senate;make it effective immediately.This is the only way
to lower the health care costs in the USA.
octavio, you know that isn't true. And when you make these statements you only make yourself look bad.
Remember this, when someone is accusing you of something and you know you are innocent, it is probably what they themselves are guilty of.
My husband always used to accuse me of cheating and I was innocent. When I walked out on him, it was because I found out that all the time I was married to him he was cheating on me.
*rolls eyes* Yes, if you disagree you must be slimy or unworthy somehow. However will will compete with your overwhelming rhetorical and reasoning skills?
Now the crooked liberal socialist thieves like you can come raid our pockets, since you useless bums couldn't make something yourselves, if your hippie commune lives depended on it!!!!
osea65 - Is this what reasoned debate sounds like on your planet?
Hey, Ambulance Chasers unite! We can't sue in Canada; our messed up system with the two -three year waits for urgent surgery just get a polite nod as we queue every so quietly for our rationed heath care. But the U.S. Wow! Opportunities abound! Can't wait to see the system unwind like it has up here; we just grit our teeth and take too many painkillers, but you can actually sue! Go for it and take the system for all it's worth! My three year wait for surgery was normal in Vancouver...there's thousands of suffering patients quietly submitting to this system (you know your time is over...we need to let the younger generation have a chance first... is what I get told at 54)! So enjoy! You were fed a bunch of lies about how Canada worked so well, and the other systems were just hunky dory, now you get your medicine!
kayanna,
You big doofus
We don't say
"Queue" up here
In Canuckistan.
If you're going to
Dissemble at least
Get the vernacular
Right.
"Canuckistan" - LOL!!!
I always tell people that Canandians are just American with manners.
Can't quite get the Canadian English right. Practice harder. In a couple of years you might be able to convince one or two people that you're actually a Canadian
Pierre,
I laughed out loud when I read kayanna's attempt at givin' er, eh? HA! Hilariously off key!
We are so fucked.
Please speak for yourself.
The rest of us are filled with hope and we are beginning to see change at work.
Wonderful, fresh, recycled, communism at work, oh what a thrill!!! Imagine the possibilities!!!!
If you're referring to the right-wing fringe, that's correct.
The R's brought it on themselves for not doing something from 2001 through 2007 when they had control and furthermore by not playing ball with the winners of the 2008 elections.
And, no, the D's will not respect you in the morning.
What a crushing loss
This must be for
Plant, our
Resident
Troll
Oh, well
Vous en gagnez et
Vous en perdez!
Don't worry, Plant is a sociopath. She will come up with some more lies and spin as soon as she finishes whatever evil thing she does in real life.
I see your back Rita {socialworklady} Beast.
winston1,
It's an honor
To be compared
To the incomparable
Ritarita
But, alas
I am not she
I am but a mere
Grasshopper to the
Queen of vertical prose
socialworklady-
Ritarita has been missed, I think she would appreciate your description of vertical prose, hope you appear more often, your flattery did her justice.
Plantkin was noticeably quiet on this thread. However, she's already begun to spin on another.
HALLELUJAH!!!
This Bill does nada to cut cost and will result in health care increasing to 21% of the economy. Along with the stiff tax increases, and requirements on small business, what we have here is a major job killer. This is quite simply pure insanity on the part of the House Democrats. let's hope the senate is a little more responsible.
Start saving your pennies cause the libs are going to take all your money for taxes.
The death panel is going to declare you a lost cause when you go in for that hemorrhoid operation. Under tort law your survivors will be able to sue for them accidentally removing your head.
I believe the insanity will be covered under the new healthcare reform bill.
EE - Darn, there really should be coverage for Never's mom's retroactive abortion.
I will stop posting this list after it passes the senate!
Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation
Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112
Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $12,236,740
Coventry, Dale Wolf: $9,047,469
Health Net, Jay Gellert: $4,425,355
Humana, Michael McCallister: $4,764,309
U. Health Group, Stephen J. Hemsley: $3,241,042
Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $9,844,212
it cracks me up that the left is so happy when they essentially didnt even get the public option they wanted
the public option must be funded by participants in the pubic option, so yes, it will keep insurance companiies honest, but no, it wont be a huge new etitlement
so? the point is it passed.
What about the point the taxes are not indexed to inflation. WTF are we gonna do 10 years from now when everyone's funding this, not just the successful you hate so much?
I wonder why it didn't have more support from the Democrats?
I think the bill will not have a chance to pass the congress with Mr Read at the helm. stand up gay Americans we need to have gender reassignment surgery for the poor and illegals. The drugs are very expensive and not available to the poor people from other countries to the south. when will America realize with all are money we need to take care of all the people of the world the world will be a better place
The healthcare bill is not law. It still has to debated on by the senate before a vote. The bill might not even be passed.
This is a step forward. How nice to see the president show up on the Hill for the photo opportunity!
Americans are really beginning to understand how beneficial this bill will be for all of us as soon as it is all phased in.
Well thank you .squareyellowpaper. How is the weather up in Canada today? Im looking forward to having a health car system like yours.
That was the biggest sausage festival i have ever seen. Do these people really run the show? god help us,, it was like a mental institution run a muck.
"Sausage festival". Homophobe Dems thinks he's being clever.
Thank you.
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