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Climate Bill Squeaks Through House
In an incredibly close vote—219-212—the House of Representatives passed a climate change bill Friday, despite concerns among the GOP that the country’s economic problems would be worsened by a “national energy tax.” The divisions throughout Congress ran deep: Calif. Rep. James Sensenbrenner, a Republican, called the bill a “massive transfer of wealth” from the United States to foreign countries; Democratic Rep. Tim Ryan said that without the bill, the country would stay energy dependent on people who want to “fly planes into our buildings.” Republicans fear the bill will raise the average family’s energy bills by thousands of dollars a year, despite an analysis by the Environmental Protection Agency that said it would equal an annual increase of $80 to $111. The passage marked a huge victory for President Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, as well as a “unique historical opportunity” for lawmakers to improve the environment, boost the economy and protect the country’s national security, said House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman.
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It's about time. If the bill is a bad one. They'll fix it. But it is time the tried something. Doing nothing is no longer an option...
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ROFLMAO.........when they read it! This just gets better and better!
LOL... :)
Yeah this is a great strategy for government. Well if the economy falls apart even more because we decided to ram this through then we can fix it after vacation. Hope your job does not rely on the economy.
Matt-
You're buying into
Paranoid mythology.
We have several cap and trade systems
In place right now.
One of them is to combat Sulphur Dioxide
To eliminate Acid Rain.
It works beautifully.
When was the last time you
Heard a warning about Acid Rain?
Don't fear the future.
Continue to think this is the way forward all you want and that something is better than nothing. I am not saying we don't need a change. I am saying this is not the right way to fix the problems and the gov needs to do it right the first time instead of settling for something that they have not read. They OWE it to us to read the bill before they vote on it. It is a dereliction of duty for them to not read the bill. What if page 173 of the latest edition says that we all have to learn to walk on our hands by 2011? Would that be the change we are looking for? It may very well say that but nobody would know!
During a recession, why not take out a whip and beat those struggling to survive with energy taxes. And how will we drive to work, if some can't afford gas? Why not find other ways to reduce our dependency on foreign oil thru innovation, hybrids, solar energy and biofuels? Innovative companies need government incentives. That should be the goal. Oh I forgot, Obama wants the government to grow, not companies.
This is going to be very expensive,and Im not sure how its creating jobs. the economy,work force,businesses are dying .maybe building windmills, etc but I dont see it.and i support this administration. but I am not happy.
There are real, well paying, jobs to be had in the expanded offshore drilling plan passed by Congress & Pres. Bush last September - and axed by Pres. Obama by Presidential Order.
There are real, well paying, jobs building safe nuclear power plants.
There are real, well paying, jobs transitioning our cars to run on natural gas (shout out to T. Boone).
In this administration, which is all about "Jobs", I guess these jobs don't count.
This legislation is a sham, and will weaken the economy at a time the economy is on life support.
Only in Washington
Come now... you don't know that.
AGREED!
the close passage of this bill tells you that a lot more time was needed to discern the implications & as usual our elected officials took the easy way out...Lets go sailing!
...and as we now know many have not read the bill, thoroughly. having an aid read the bill & write a brief with "bullets" points is "not" what I bargained for in the voting booth!
Another problem is the obvious distractions by the Obama administration with health care & N. Korea & Iran [ I regret having to characterize these important events as "distractions"] but I was in Chicago on June 15th 2009 & heard Obama ,in person, tell
U.S. physicians what they wanted to hear ... not the truth. When we saw the news that night it was edited in such a way that it was unrecognizable! Another opportunity
"not to waste a crisis"
CAP & Trade was rushed through for a Friday vote...My 2 Representatives from Missouri told me they were voting against C&T... they found NO advantages to the citizens of the USA...infact the passage of this bill will allow the US to give other countries $$$$208 Billion,thats Billion,folks between 2012 2019 for a "technology transfer" whatever that means?? Can someone respond & explain why we are allowing this to happen??Are we as a country going to let this happen?? Iam really
discouraged. What next??
Another Rube Goldberg device from the Obama Administration. The good news is that the self destructive behavior will guarantee a quick crash and burn, and the American economy is resilient enough to survive.
Judging by the way
Republicans with their limited
And short-sighted thinking have
Buried us financially and crippled the U.S.
With military adventurism-
I'll take my chances with some new thinking
That does not ride the oil train to the end.
It's time to make big investments
In our energy grid
And clean renewable energy
And not be afraid of the future.
It is weak
To see everything
In terms of dualities.
This side vs the other side....
So this massive ripoff is OK because the Republicans blew it?
Airiq-
A complete misreading
Of my post-
I do not subscribe to the notion
That this bill is a massive rip-off.
You even insert duality where there is none.
It's the first time in history
That the U.S. Congress has attempted
To deal with the problem of Climate change.
I believe the bill is weak triangulated legislation
But-
I'll take incremental change over
No change at all.
Good morning by the way.
Elect dems and you get higher taxes.
The democratic tax on energy will make everything more expensive, because everything in the economy depends on the use of gasoline, coal, coal-fired electricity, home heating oil, etc.
Clearly tax cuts hasn't fix anything for the last 8 years.
So are you saying that raising taxes makes the economy better? If so I would love an example.
Since that is your favorite line, progressive, let me take a page from Obama's playbook when his critics pointed out that his Stimulus Plan rammed down our throats did not keep unemployment under 8% as promised by his advisors...
"Just think how bad it would have been if we did not have those tax cuts over the last 8 years!"
MadMatt35F no I'm saying Clearly tax cuts hasn't fix anything for the last 8 years.
And people always like to say don't criticize unless you offer something better. Well what is your better offer? I am pretty sure the POTUS said over and over that he would lower tax for everyone that makes less than 250k, and promised not to raise taxes on anyone less than 200k. So he at least knows that you get elected by lowering taxes. Apparently it does not matter once you get into office.
Let's see, the past 8 years the Dow was at 14000, and the unemployment was 5.1 and that was with a terror attack on our financial district and the US economy to boot... We had the money to shop like Bush suggested..
It sure sounds like tax cuts worked .
The Dows been on a down turn ever since O took over. The commercial real estate market car bomb didn't happen yet. All of those empty store fronts were filled by people having money.
How many extant jobs will be eliminated in order to create these promised new green jobs?
The argument in favor "doing something" to eliminate the putative threat of climate catastrophe resembles the specious arguments made in favor of the Iraq invasion. The threat is imminent and we have to do something pronto. We can't afford to waste time debating the pros and cons. The longer we wait, the more likely we are to suffer the dire consequences on inaction. It's the same strategy.
And it's bunk.
It's a good start. If you provide disincentive for pollution, you will get less of it
If you provide incentive for innovation, you will get more of it
-Taxing cigs and regulating where you can smoke has lead to less of it,
-Cheap CNG & LPG has led to more use of those vehicles & more use of them will decrease foreign oil use.
*LET'S STOP SUBSIDIZING CHAVEZ, THE AYATOLLAH, THE SAUDIS, HALLIBURTON, AND OTHER MURDERERS!!!*
I agree, drill baby drill, unload that money in the USA now! Our economy is oil based people, everything man-made requires oil! Our cars use a fraction of the oil we buy, all the industry and products that contain or need energy use oil. No one wants clean nuclear power so we still use coal. Stop using coal and there is unemployment. Try to get a coal miner to be a nuclear scientist! Stop using oil and the refineries will shut down for unemployment, the farmers will make good and we won't ever be able to afford to eat corn again and the corn feed to beef will make it that much more expensive! Ah, but the Alaskan pipeline made lots of jobs and keeps them there. In the meantime, with oil flowing our economy doesn't shut down completely and then we have to work on alternatives. Want to think clean? Think nuclear, think hydrogen power think really advance solar but geez, don't shut the economy down to do anything! It is shutting down now and raising taxes without alternative plans for employment is suicide!
The temperature of the earth has not increased since 1998. In either case, this bill will be a gnat on an elephants ass in its effect on global warming, or climate change, or what ever they call it. What it will mean is more jobs for Goldman Sachs to trade in carbon futures (or whatever they call them), and less jobs for people who know how to use a shovel.
Even the bill's supporters acknowledge the effect will be anemic. But they'll be able to claim they did something beneficial. Political currency is the only thing of value a politician recognizes. The term of the bill far exceeds the life expectancy of any member who voted in favor of it. They will be able to claim beneficence for the rest of their political careers, which for many will constitute the rest of their lives. Watch how they begin to coopt the claims of global warming skeptics that the earth's temperature has, in fact, been steady or, by some accounts, cooling for the past two decades, as evidence that their actions have had a positive impact on this fallacious threat. They're shrewdly aware that the evidence which contradicts their claims can be used to evince the efficacy of their actions. What a racket!
It's the truth! I'm going to invest and get rich like Gore! If I can't have an independent with a clue for president then I will continue to settle for making life good whatever avenue I am afforded! LMAO..................................The single malt is truly making this so easy, even buzzed I can do the math and he who holds the numbers dear wins big!!!!!!!!!
That isn't that point really... it is that fact that something has started. And for Washington to do anything about climate change... that is frankly amazing.
"just doing something" is stupid. If no one even had time to read the bill all we are going to get is congressional hearings about corruptions and deciept in a few months on why this or that was in the bill. That is what we got with the AIg bailout. It is what we are hearing now about some of the "stimulus" spending.
Out of context...
Hooray!
I threw another couple of charcoals in the grill tonight, to celebrate this great day.
Way to go, Nancy.....
No kidding, didn't everyone go through this on the last article?
Might as well start buying stock in companies that measure carbon emissions. These are the only stocks that will move if this bill goes all the way through. Everything else will die off.
MadMatt35F could you please post some of the companies to start to look inti them.I can tell you on the business, end,retailers,workers,Its pathetic.Im going to take a training couurse on Building windmills to see if it twirls me into the Air.and success.!!!!!!
IBM has a partnership with Evergreen Energy (EEE) that has technology to measure it. I am sure there are others but that is the one I know about. I am sure monday it will skyrocket so it may be too late to make the huge gains on any of these but it is worth a shot. Better than your other choices.
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charles116,That is the real problem It is over everyone heads.Even all those who signed It.They have not even understood or read it.and forget 80% of the country.The only ones who understand all this are people and big companies that will make fortunes,and the go.will be helping them,and many politicianns will make fortunes in some way.Please no more Jackson(rest in peace),or Sanford..Sanford knocked Iran out of #1 place.
He's broke no matter where he is! LOL
Uh uh squigg-
His music catalog
Probably made 100 million dollars
In just the last few days.
Michael Jackson will make far more in death
Than he ever did in life
Just like Elvis.
he can't use it so therefore he is broke, didn't mention he didn't need it anyway, thought that was obviouse!
I was thinking more
In terms of his estate-
Don't be a wiseguy.
Sorry rita, not wise guy, I already blipped about his extensive catalog of song rights, someone is going to make out, should be fun watching the carnage to get it, but alas, he is in a place where he will have no needs
Actually, squiggy , you "blipped" about money he blew and borrowed,and that he was living in a dream world. Not very complimentary or accepting toward a man who had great talent and who was making money, and would still have made money if he had lived.
Keep looking cheen, it's in there, got your glasses?
Yeah, squiggy, after you had let go with your nothing but critical initial reaction. Always trying to worm out of your off the mark comments, but it made for better reading for you to mock that he won't need it anyway. Far be it from me to call you a wiseguy.
The same fear mongering from Republican'ts who are completely in the pocket of oil companies and energy companies. They try to scare the public with fears of rising costs while big energy profits, the environment worsens, and the get re-elected with the money they make for the oil companies. Any change is better than the continued path.
leftygoleft.i am not a Republican,but trust me,on thisThere are many democrats in the pockets of oil companies and in the pockets of the new companies to flourish.You are right we need change,stop 106 billiondollars going abroad,do what you want but dont drain us anymore.Our money is spent like a vacuum cleaner and we have no control.Where is our growth coming from.??Without jobs,businesses and entrepernaural stimulus here people cannot buy cars,homes vacations, schools are getting higher.
you seem to have a handle on the problem! Yeah, another enlightened one, they are all the same and no matter how they cloak it, it's not change we can believe in, so vote out incumbents and start to clean out the Congress and let them know we don't want business as usual any more!
amapola101 is correct!
We are the only empire in history that actually PAYS our underlings instead of extracting tribute from them. Our weapon is not our armies and navies (or at least has not been since WW2), it's our cash, and now it's running out, and BOTH sides are to blame. Keep the money home, stop sticking our heads in the sand on Nuclear, push the natural gas thing for cars, see solar and wind for what they truly are (helpers of a bigger issue), reinvest in hydro where appropriate, subsidize electric car technology if you must subsidize something, and yes... drill!
Nothing to fear lefty, either you keep a job and you pay out the wazoo and clean up the air or you join the ranks of the unemployed and the gov't takes care of you! LOL Either choice is wonderful, right! The economy and big business can tank because the gov't will always be there! LOL Hang on!
Obama's tactics are brilliant. Hide your agenda in the form of a 1200 page bill that no one reads or can understand and expect everyone to vote the party line as opposed to actually understanding what and the impact is of passing the legislation. also, who are the genius' who actually write the bills. It is they who have the biggest impact on our country's future.
I am sure other bills are probably just as long. We just hear more complaining because Republicans like being victims.
agree.Both sides can be accused of the same tactics. i just think , and i am probably naive, that the american people deserve better from their elected officials.
got to run, heard the Brooklun Bridge is for sale and i need to put in my bid!
what happened to the transparency?
Yeah, what's up with the added 300 pages, one hour to read, no one got a copy and the vote went through? Yes we can, change to believe in!!! LOL
Well those who voted for it had "faith" in the system. They had "hope" that the extra 300 pages were the "change" that we needed.
Change you can wipe with.
I like that slogan!
What don't people get? We need to reduce reliance on foreign oil and use the money paid to these countries for green jobs here in the U.S. Also, $80 to $111 annual increase in our energy bill is nothing and it could be cheaper than the future increase in the price of oil which impacts many other areas of our lives (e.g. transportation of food increasing the cost of our grocery bill even more). I don't know the details of the bill, but given that for the first time in eight years we have some really smart people running the government, I will take a wait and see approach before judging.
What make these people really smart? Listening to Al Gore makes you smart? You even admint you dont know the details of the bill, but you support it. Gee, you must be one of those really smart people. You should work for the administration.
No, it's just common sense. Why feed the very same people trying to kill you. Which is exactly what we are doing. OPEC... almost every member (or at least the major ones) are on our hit list.
I'd' rather pay a little more and send that money to the American Midwest then get 20 percent off and send it to the Middle East. Why? It keeps it in this nation and makes us richer and does not support those that would harm us.
Sounds like a win/win to me.
then we drill more of our own off shore oil and develop our known reserves ALONG with beginning to develop more cost-efficient alternative fuels. NOT by killing the use of Oil, gas and coal when we have no alternative waiting to replace them
"I don't know the details of the bill"
NOBODY DOES! LOL
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Bravo! As if ! I hear solar panels and windmills and just chuckle. How dumb can people be to believe this malarky and then I see many. Unbelievable! You painted the perfect picture!
Dumb dumbs.
The planet will ultimately be fine.
It's humans that will find it
Inhospitable and unlivable.
(Wink,wink) We're just teasin'...
Me too.
I don't know Ritarita, so far we've been pretty resilient. Besides, the climate is perhaps the single most mathematically complex event that the world's largest computers constantly get wrong. And that's not an exaggeration. One of the supercomputer industry's most important customers is the National Weather Service. Having watched Al Gore's movie, and having seen some of the "data", I think all one can do if one emotionally detaches oneself from the issue is to say that the climate will change. As stated by laughorcry, perhaps Siberia and Northern Canada can now be farm land? Perhaps the Sahara and the Australian Outback will become even more inhospitable than they already are? And yes, if the sea levels rise then Florida, The Netherlands, and the mouths of all major river floodplains will become oceans, but it will happen slowly and I think humans will adjust. At the end of the day, the only thing that will really truly help us (if we all believe this is really an issue) is massive conservation, not "feel good" legislation, but it just doesn't collectively hurt enough to make people fundamentally change their lifestyle.
I know in Canada and Minnesota they are all for global warming. In fact they leave their cars running when they go into grocery stores just to hurry up the process. :) (Of course it's also -40 in the winter and that might have something to do with it as well.)
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Let me know where to send my campaign donation and I hope the first order of business will be to have the Supremes who voted exhale as pollutant to stop inhaling! Then on down the line of course!
A couple points:
1. James Sensenbrenner is a Republipig from Wisconsin, not California. He is the heir of the Tampax fortune, no less. Also, a total a-hole repig who embodies the dioxin-poisoned, turkey-necked, pasty-skinned, republican from Wisconsin. Most of them live in the suburbs of Milwaukee where they ran to escape minorities and so they could be around trash like themselves.
2. Perhaps if we shut up the repig talking heads, there would be less hot air out there.......just a thought.
cb
cb, thanks for getting us back on track...
How dare anyone on this post saying anything that could possibly be construed as either remotely positive for the Republican party or remotely negative for the Democrat Party or the present administration! GET IN LINE, damn it! All Republicans are inherently evil and all Democrats are inherently angelic. If you can't follow those obvious rules then don't post!
So the House passed a weakened bill, influenced by the very energy companies its supposed to regulate, but hey at least its something.
As for the hysterics-GROW UP you sound like a bunch of blithering teens fishing for any excuse to keep from cleaning your room.
Did clean air legislation in the 70s destroy our country? No it reduced acid rain. Did catalytic converters keep Californians from driving? Uh no. Did the cessation of DDT bankrupt farmers? Nooo. Why would ANYONE demand the right to be poisoned? Ever heard the phrase "you don't sh*t where you eat?"
The very numbers so many posters use to "prove" that our energy costs are going to ruin towns, wreck our economy and eliminate jobs are FALSE-just read what the AUTHOR of the cited report said.
Can any of you appreciate what global warming means?
Its not a matter of a couple of degrees warmer. More than half of the world's population live along costal areas, if sea levels rise by even a few feet millions will be forced to relocate. If you are scared for the security of this nation than you should be doing everything you can to prevent a mass global migration.
You think jobs are scarce in your town, wait until the millions residents of Florida move to Atlanta. Think your property insurance is high NOW, just wait for the increased intensity of storms. Think energy costs are soaring? Just wait until the same storms keep tankers from crossing the oceans, and destroy your beloved off-shore platforms.
Such tremendously willful ignorance and arrogance. Maybe we deserve to die off and let the cockroaches have a go. Just pathetic.
i'm no weather expert and won't pretend to have an all-knowing opinion about global warming. however there are two things that bother me about what has transpired. why weigh the economy down with taxes while we are trying to recover and exactly what is the eminent threat that justifies passing a bill without full and open scrutiny?
might be eminent but meant imminent
I'm no weather expert either, but my question is: If Asia (China, India, other Asian countries) has already said that they are not going to go along with cap and trade, Australia had dropped it so as not to wreck their economy, Europe is dropping it so as not to destroy their economy. Precisely how does destroying the US economy help?
JUS1DRUN: Not questioning you, questioning those who would argue with your points. I agree with them by the way.
Its about time "BIG OIL" and there lobbying is coming to a END.The health of the american people deserve it.Where I live is in a valley below some mountains about a hour from L.A. when I was little boy I remember swimming in a pool and by the end of the day could'nt breath because of the smog.The smog from cars driving the L.A. freeway gets pushed by the off shore wind right into our valley and sits over the top of us here if go up too the moutains and look down on the vally you can see this purple haze called smog just sitting over the valley its sick if you live down here and go up there and look at what we breath in every day it can't be good something has to be down and thank God there trying to do something.But lets see if "BIG OIL" will buy the senate and stop it.I hope the Republicans don't try to stop it and use there christianity to do something good for people. Jesus was"nt bought but he paid a price for the good of man and they should'nt be bought for the good of man.We shall see...!
I am outraged at the bill that has just been passed. It is just another way of taxing people. WE must see that the people that voted for it get voted out of congress and the senate. Complacency will be our downfall if we do not wake up. Let's see that the Senate do not pass this bill.
Pass the bill now.
President Obama is a very shrewd politican. He knows that he has to get his agenda passed at all, that he must get it passed BEFORE the people "catch on" to what his agenda is. He does not give anyone time to read what is in the bills, says they MUST get passed like yesterday, and does not post anything on the internet for the 5 days like he promised. Tell me, why isn't someone, anyone, holding him to his promises---WHY?????
Would that be his secret
Muslim agenda
Mary?
To all people, and those of you that read this--and of course agree with me---please tell everyone that you know how important it is for this bill NOT to get passed. It will change our lives forever, and not for the better. If it gets passed, it will never be undone--it will be too late.
we all have a duty to ourselves and our children to see that this does not get passed. It rest on us--are we up to the challenge????
NO.
Pass the bill now.
Don't fear the future.
Yeah!
This mentality worked for the germans why not for us?
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That is my point.
True some will move slowly, the effect won't be quickly apparent, but will end up "surprising" local governments who one day realize schools aren't big enough, the fire department is overwhelmed, etc. Some towns will grow, others will shrink, but we are adaptable given enough time.
What does worry me are the large rapid movements of people after intense storms. Katrina is a good example. How many thousands didn't return to the city after evacuation? Now what if we had many Katrinas every year? How does Buffalo react to 8 million displaced New Yorkers?
As for the rest of the world not lucky enough to have US resources and stability, well that is scary. What happens when the coast of Mexico goes? Central Mexico doesn't have the resources for its current population-think border security is bad now?
Darfur is a "good" example of what happens when populations fight over dwindling resources, so magnify that horror by a couple of billion people.
And don't get me started on drought, California, Nevada, Georgia, Florida-think wars over oil are bad, wait until we are fighting each other over water.
Thank you.
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