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Is Obama Going Soft on China?
Last month, President Obama snubbed the Dalai Lama when the exiled Tibetan leader came through Washington. It was a strategic move to placate China, where Obama is now on a three-day visit to meet with Chinese President Hu Jintao to address economic issues. Such actions have led some to think that Obama is brushing human-rights issues under the rug. So far on his Tour de Asia, Obama has failed to bring attention to Tibet or Xinjian, two embattled minority regions in China. (Although he did call for the release of Aung San Suu Kyi, a Burmese dissident leader under house arrest.) Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has also implied that, at the moment, the economy and climate change are more pressing issues than human rights. A former Bush administration Asia adviser said, "I really hope that on this trip the president not only presses privately but makes it clear publicly his support for the Dalai Lama... It's not just about an important international spiritual leader; it's a measure of how China will treat the weak as it grows more powerful." Obama will meet with the Dalai Lama after he returns from China.
case1234
The media some how missed the fact that our current wars were financed by large borrowing by the Bush administration from China. That borrowing relation has continued into the current admin. Kinda hard to bring up Tibet to the people you owe a few hundred billion too.
mbgillil
The borrowing relationship with China began long before Bush and will end long after Obama. We've always been soft on China because we're intelligent enough not to bite the hand that feeds.
Plantagenet
Hi Case1234:
Trying to blame Bush for Obama's wimpiness in dealing with the Chinese makes no sense at all. Obama has always been a wimp.....he never wrote a bill while in the Senate and he voted "present" over a hundred times in Illinois to avoid taking stands on tough issues, and Obama was a "druggie" while he was organizing the community of South Chicago to reach its current level of economic disaster, high crime, and failing schools.
case1234
Once again Plant displays uninhibited Obama hatred. You think he is a wimp this week you thought he was Stalin and Mao last week..blah blah.
On to real things, Do you thinks it is odd for "conservatives" to demand that Obama confront China's human rights record while defending water boarding as a legitimate tactic. Can't have it both ways. The rest of world is watching.
Plantagenet
Hi Case:
Instead of fantasizing about "obama hatred" I suggest you take a deep breath and relax. Relax. Isn't that better?
As far as China's "human rights" record, it is dismal. If you don't know that, then you should inform yourself of the facts.
dwood7219
Oh my, must have those outdated and erroneous campaign talking points close at hand, eh? If by wimpy you mean any thoughtful person who tries to reason the way out of this ridiculous mess left by Bushie, then I guess I am a great fan of wimps.
Plantagenet
Obama's wimpiness in failing to talk to the Dalai Lama is a mess left by Bush?
Whoa...........do you also think its Bush's fault China invaded Tibet in 1959?
yankeechamp2009
PLANT you just love preaching the words of FOX dont you? You dont research because u think FOX preaches the gospel. First of all, why did Bush have to borrow from China "to fight the wars" in the first place when Clinton left a $5 trillion surplus? Second, why didn't Bush pay for the wars when he did get the money from China? The CBO report of sept 2008 clearly states "The Administration's refusal to offset the costs of its new tax cuts, new entitlement expansions, and the wars have led to the ballooning of the national debt. This Administration has pushed through tax cuts that cost roughly $2 trillion, as well as a Medicare prescription drug bill that cost $400 billion. The wars have already cost
nearly $900 billion. Yet, the Administration has paid for none of these measures. In fact, if the Administration's tax cuts and the war had been fully offset, we would not be facing such a mountain of debt, which threatens our economy and our ability to meet the needs of our citizens." So while u continue to repeat the racist attacks on Obama from FOX, u fail to research and find the truth. U think if Obama borrowed trillions to fund a war and doesnt do jack crap, that FOX will hide this?
You call Obama a wimp. Thats exactly what you bigots were calling him during the Somalia hijack back in April. You wanted Obama to blow up that boat even though there was an American innocent captain in it. Had he listen to u a-holes, then Obama would have been a murderer and a terrorist for killing a white man right? But instead, he plans a perfect attack, sends the navy seals, and authorizes the assasination of those 3 black pirates and it was a total success. And you call him a wimp. If it was a white president he would've been a national hero wouldn't he? And why should he have to interfere in China's affairs? Thats why we have so many problems with other countries in the first place; we go into there country and tell them how to run things. He's there to discuss economic issues and that's it. Can i come to your trailer and tell u how to be a human being?
Obama was a druggie while a community organizer? LETS SEE YOUR EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR RACIST BULLSHIT. He got high in college and he admitted this. Unlike Bush who admitted being a chronic alcoholic which is a disease. And even if Obama was a "druggie" while being an organizer, it sure had no impact on his performance because he was able to successful project for Walter Annenberg (A REPUBLICAN) raising $60 million for school improvement. And since when does the economic disaster, high crime and failing schools of a state fall into the hands of a senator you stupid ass? The governor and the mayor is responsible for all of that. SO AGAIN, YOU TALK THROUGH BECK'S ASS AND MAKE A COMPLETE TOTAL MORON OF YOURSELF.
socialworklady
Righteous rant, Yankeechamp!
You get my vote for Round-Up
Smackdown Of The Week
Hope you stick around
Champ!
Desertpenguin
PLANTAGENET's comment that starts "Hi Case1234: Trying to blame Bush for Obama's wimpiness in dealing..." uses Rules # 1 & 3 of
THE 5 RULES OF PROPAGANDA --
1) The rule of orchestration: endlessly repeating the same messages in different variations and combinations.
3) The rule of disfiguration: discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies.
The other 3 RULES OF PROPAGANDA ARE--
2) The rule of simplification: reducing all data to a simple confrontation between 'Good and Bad', 'Friend and Foe'.
4) The rule of transfusion: manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one's own ends.
5) The rule of unanimity: presenting one's viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right-thinking people: draining the doubting individual into agreement by the appeal of star-performers, by social pressure, and by 'psychological contagion'.
Carole65
Your ritaritaisms are getting a little tired. Seems as though she dropped out of the fray, from the possible lack of interest in contributing thoughts to the subject, instead of thoughts on the posters. Time to retire the rules .......
socialworklady
The Rules did not come from Rita -- they came from some other poster (Gary?). Rita picked them up and ran with them.
Desertpenquin:
I LOVE that you are using the FIVE RULES OF PROPAGANDA. PLEASE CARRY ON.
And, Rita will return. Keep the faith, people!
Demsdisorder
He was born soft and will be soft until the day he dies.
Im hearing that he isn't the father of his kids. Anyone here this?
mbgillil
I'm hearing that you aren't the father of yours, either. Just because you hear something bad about someone you don't like doesn't make it true.
Demsdisorder
doesnt make it false..
nortonclybourn
I heres thet yew aint yer daddy's baby. If it aint trew, whycome doan yew deny it? Lemme see yer long form birf certificurt. If yew kent show me it must be trew.
dwood7219
Disorder (of the mental variety)
You, my friend, are a jackass.
Demsdisorder
did we see them yet???? i think we all know why !!
reasonable
Don't be so naive, they aren't even really children! Just tiny actresses straight out of central casting. I saw the one who plays Malia on Law & Order the other night. That lying liberal media can't keep us from the truth, demsdisorder. I've got your back..
whitewitch
"Im hearing that he isn't the father of his kids. Anyone here (sic) this?"
Umm, no...because those voices are in your head. Do they sound like dogs?
jg90210
Is there ANYONE has hasn't gone soft on so far ? Hmmm, Russia ? nope Iran ? nope OH yeah, the taliban and Al queda ? yep ! while our troops die waiting for help....
nortonclybourn
Yeah, why don't we invade China. Whoops, we don't have any army left. Now where did they go to? That's right, we had to defend ourselves from WMD in Iraq.
guerrilladude
the funny thing is we keep borrowing money from China to pay our defense bills, a large portion of which is to fund building military capabilities to fight China. Or I suppose that is the absurd thing...
khepri
America has run out of gas and is only being carried by the momentum of its downward trajectory. Thanks to Bush and to both major parties, the country has wrecked itself and in time its massive denial will be shattered by the facts of its predicament. The age of arrogance and dictating to others will be coming to an end soon. We can't afford to kick sand in China's face; we can't afford to continue to behave as if we were the only exceptional player on the planet. Get used to the US assuming a more modest role in world affairs quite soon. The enemy that has caused this state of affairs is within, not outside.
Demsdisorder
very true
melpol
The Chinese State Of America Could become leaders of the world. They have much to offer one another. Their consolidation is inevitable despite the objections of Conservatives and trailer park trash.
hfb1053
On GPS, Fareed had a Brit who also said that Obama was wrong to have not met with the Dalai Lama. The Brit very specifically said that Obama didn't get anything from China for not meeting with the Dalai Lama and that was a mistake. Quid pro quo - he gave the quo without getting the quid.
khepri
OMG, let's all take advice from the Brits now. They have been soooo successful of late.
Demsdisorder
seems i keep hearing about there universal health care as a model
seemoreglass
We owe China about a trillion $$$ - no one wanted to raise taxes (cuz they said they wouldn't raise taxes)...so the US has been borrowing money and floating bonds to pay for a massive spending spree over the last 9 years. It was China who insisted that we bail out the banking industry, and Bush did.... Obama followed suit...as will any other president we put in the white house.
aaronsirbaihu
I'm an American working in China. I've lived here over six years total, first came in 1990. While I am a "lib" who generally thinks violence and human rights abuses are sucky, I also am starting to feel like America ought to get off its high horse now. Our country is messed up, dudes, and every poster unanimously still wants to run around the world telling everyone how to be like us. Maybe China should legalize gun purchases like we do. Maybe they should upgrade to Gitmo-style prisons. Maybe they should have two wars in foreign countries like we do. Maybe they should adopt belief in sin and eternal damnation. Are Americans really that cool that we should tell everyone how to live? Do you really think our own house is in order?
As for Tibet, what do you know about it? Name two cities in Tibet. What year did the political system of Tibet change to the way you currently dislike? Do you really believe that the Dalai Lama is a reincarnation of the previous Dalai Lama?
As for voting, America is a country where voters take Sarah Palin seriously. China has about 800 million citizens who are far far less politically educated than even Palin supporters. Their last "choice" for a leader was Mao Zedong, OK?
khepri
Your lantern shows much light, Diogenes. I think all the neocon wannabes have left the room.
Plantagenet
Aaron lives in a totalitarian state where the news and internet are CENSORED so he has absolutely no idea of what is going on in the world except what the geriatric leadership of China cares to let in, and you think he is knowledgeable?
Hahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahhahaah!
guerrilladude
Thanks for saying it aaronsirbaihu - but believe me, not many Americans are willing to hear it, let alone believe it. We are very messed up, and it's only going to get worse before it gets any better.
Demsdisorder
sounds like you need to stay in China. have fun and tell the Lama we said GFY
Plantagenet
So you are a liberal who doesn't support his own country----so what else is new? However, since you asked, here are the answers to your questions about China*
1. China will never allow the Chinese people to own guns because the dictators of China fear their own people.
2. Chinese prisons are notorious for stealing the organs of political dissidents.
3. China DOES have a record of two wars in two foreign countries. China invaded in Tibet in 1959----the Tibetan people still intermittently resist. China also claims areas of India, and they fought a small war when China invaded.
4. Your weird religious fantasies are your own problem.
5. I've travelled across Tibet, and spent time in Lhasa and in several more remote areas. The Tibetans I met universally told me they hated the Chinese and wanted the US to help them. Your disparagement of Tibetan culture and Tibetan religion are irrelevant to illegality of the Chinese invasion.
6. In addition to your disdain for the American people, you express your dislike of the Tibetan and Chinese peoples. Perhaps you simply prefer totalitarian governments and that is why you are defending the totalitarians who run China.
* I hate to tell you, but China censors ALL internet traffic entering the middle kingdom, so you aren't getting all the facts about any of the topics you are pontificating on.
reasonable
Plantagenet,
Who's your favorite monarch? Are you a Henry II kind of person?
khepri
Nah, more like Ethelred the Unready. Or the Danish Canute (Knut): commanding the tide to stop coming in.
aaronsirbaihu
I support my country.
Platagenet said he/she would answer my questions. These were my questions.
Are Americans really that cool that we should tell everyone how to live?
Do you really think our own house is in order?
What year did the political system of Tibet change to the way you currently dislike?
Do you really believe that the Dalai Lama is a reincarnation of the previous Dalai Lama?
As for Platagenet's "answers" to what were not questions:
1. Is that your reason why most civilized nations prohibit gun sales, or just your reason for China in particular?
2. Chinese are "notorious" for that? Sounds like some real first-hand information you've got there, you champion of the internet.
3. Sorry, I meant conducting two wars at the present moment, not in a government's entire history.
4. I have no religious fantasies.
5. I didn't disparage the Tibetan culture or religion. It is true: I do not believe the Dalai Lama is reincarnated. I'm sure he will forgive me for that.
6. a. I don't disdain the American people, only people who take Palin seriously. b.Non-disdain for the American people and preference for totalitarian government are not the only two options available.
* Did you just equate "internet traffic" with "all the facts"? Wow.
Plantagenet
Hi Aaron:
You somehow avoided discussing the fact that the internet and other media in China is censored by the Chinese government, thereby circumscribing and limiting your own knowledge of current events. Just as Germans who lived in Nazi German knew little about Hitler's persecution of the Jews that the German state didn't want them to know, I'm sure you know little about current events in China and outside of China that the Chinese state doesn't want you to know about. Much of what you are saying parrots the Chinese party line......For instance, your ridiculous attempt to avoid discussing the invasion of Tibet by China by mocking those Tibetan Bhuddists who believe the Dalai Lama is a reincarnation of an earlier Dalai Lama suggests that you condone the murders, beatings, arrests and immoral repression of the Tibetan people today.
Its also interesting that while you criticize the US and Tibet, you have no criticisms of the Chinese government or their policies.
Do you have any criticisms of the Chinese state and the Chinese government, or do your support their murder of Tibetan dissidents? Do you really believe everything is perfect there in China?
aaronsirbaihu
I just saw Plantagenet's new response. Here:
The Chinese government censors the internet. But not news websites. They censor modes of communication that can go "viral": youtube, facebook, twitter, myspace; not this website, FoxNews, CNN, etc.
The following, written by Plantagenet, is utter crap:
"your ridiculous attempt to avoid discussing the invasion of Tibet by China by mocking those Tibetan Bhuddists who believe the Dalai Lama is a reincarnation of an earlier Dalai Lama suggests that you condone the murders, beatings, arrests and immoral repression of the Tibetan people today."
I have plenty of criticisms of the Chinese government. Why does everything have to be about criticism? Can't we just focus on getting our own act together?
Everything is far from perfect here. But people feel better in Beijing than they do in Georgia, I can tell you that. And they act more friendly, by the way.
No country is perfect. I just don't know why the U.S. continues to think it knows everyone else's business.
aaronsirbaihu
I think I did not fully acknowledge Plantagenet's sense of indignation. To continue. . . .
I agree with Plantagenet on some issues. Some Tibetans also told me they disliked Beijing and loved Bill Clinton (this was in 1995, then 1998). That doesn't mean they should decide American foreign policy, though.
Plantagenet, are you a champion of all "oppressed" peoples, including those inside the U.S.? Suppose some Hawaiians or Puerto Ricans or Alaskans or even Montanans hate the federal government, or Texas wants to secede. Are you with them, or do you just dig funky mountain peoples? How do you decide which peoples you support? Who's on your support list besides the Tibetans? Anyone?
I also agree that China censors the internet, specifically youtube, facebook, twitter, and most porn. It sucks for residents of China. And I'm here to tell you about it :)
When you were traveling "across Tibet" to Lhasa and "several more remote areas," were you speaking Tibetan to these far-flung inhabitants? I'm just wondering who you were talking to, because the average Tibetan doesn't really speak English. Did you get a nice cross-section of Tibetan society there, or were there a few extra tour guides and waitresses thrown in?
Are you really concerned about the "illegality" of the Chinese invasion? According to whose law? The Chinese? The Tibetan theocracy? International law? (Oh please start defending international law!)
Finally, are you the only one who hasn't noticed your nasty tone? This is one of your big problems: you expect people to understand your views, but you treat people like jerks while you are expressing your views: "Hey, you totalitarian dictator jerks, you should be like me. My ways are very attractive, you evil and/or idiotic people."
Plantagenet
Hi Reasonable:
I appreciate you asking such a reasonable question, but as a general rule I never talk about family matters at these kind of sites.
Cheers!
socialworklady
reasonable,
You know you've managed to get under Plant's skin when s/he writes "Cheers" at the end of the post.
Carry on.
socialworklady
reasonable,
You know you've managed to get under Plant's skin when s/he writes "Cheers!" at the end of the post.
Carry on.
Plantagenet
socialworkchurchlady
I've know I've managed to get under your skin when you do a double post....I hope you are having a wonderful fall season!
Cheers, by the way, is just a friendly salutation. Cheers!
socialworklady
Plant,
You're about as friendly as:
A malignant tumor
jojo12
I believe Tennessee Ernie Ford's song Sixteen Tons spells out why Obama is treading carefully with China regarding human rights. We (the American people) thanks to Bush/Cheney, their war of choice & tax cuts, owe our souls to the company (China) store.
Don't bite the hand that has been feeding you & keeping your head above water.
khepri
Ok Plant, so you're not a neocon wannabe. You are the real thing. And you are still in the room.
DrToketee
As long as you finally give up on the now-ridiculous notion that Obama is a man of change, and is really a man-of-re-election, then you should find that everything that Obama is doing with the Dalai Lama and the Chinese governmanet perfectly reasonable.
winston1
Bambi has no choice to go soft with China they own us. I see his photo-op didn't make it on Chinese TV,speaking to the classroom of Chinese student's. Bambi must have gotten all Wee-Wee'd up about this. This is what he lives for preaching BS all talk no action.
Thank you.
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