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Obama: Drop Abortion From Health Bill
After some silence on the issue, President Obama is finally speaking up about the abortion clause attached to the House's version of the health-care reform bill. "I laid out a very simple principle, which is this is a health-care bill, not an abortion bill," Obama told Jake Tapper on ABC's World News Tonight. The president stressed that the health-care bill that eventually passes shouldn't change what "has been in place for a very long time," which is a ban on federal subsidies for abortions. The controversial compromise in the House bill opposes the public option's coverage of abortions. Obama said that he wants to ensure "that the provision that emerges meets that test—that we are not in some way sneaking in funding for abortions, but, on the other hand, that we're not restricting women's insurance choices."
neverlate
The great equivacator strikes again!
Desertpenguin
PLANTAGENET's comment that starts "Yesterday Obama went to the House and read his teleprompter..." uses Rules # 1 & 3 of THE 5 RULES OF PROPAGANDA --
1) The rule of orchestration: endlessly repeating the same messages in different variations and combinations.
3) The rule of disfiguration: discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies.
The other 3 RULES OF PROPAGANDA ARE--
2) The rule of simplification: reducing all data to a simple confrontation between 'Good and Bad', 'Friend and Foe'.
4) The rule of transfusion: manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one's own ends.
5) The rule of unanimity: presenting one's viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right-thinking people: draining the doubting individual into agreement by the appeal of star-performers, by social pressure, and by 'psychological contagion'.
socialworklady
The rules unmasking Plant's bullsh!t are back.
Woot!
WestVillager
It's better when Obama voices his opinion. I prefer my president to have a point of view.
sadie101
Obama cuts a backroom deal to screw over women, then spends all day twisting dems arms to accept this sell out of women and now he wants to tell us he doesn't like it?
Exactly how dumb does Obama think women are, exactly?
johnwr3
This is getting weird. We have never had a president, at least in my life time, who has been more of a fence sitter. I think it might just be a cultural thing for me? I like my presidents to be strong statesman not poll driven centrists on the creamy surface covering a nutty cake of liberal theories and ideology. Talk about playing it safe, Obama is like the guy at a Super Bowl party who waits for the end of the 4th quarter before choosing sides. It's annoying. I like my leaders to drive not just sit in the child seat. Does anyone else think his "play it safe" approach is weak vs. thoughtful?
Carole65
Very good description, johnwr3. It's hard to figure out if he wanted no abortion language in the health care bill, went to the House on Sat. for a pep rally, and the House then included abortion coverage, or lack therof, language and passed it, where the disconnect occurred. Since that didn't work out so well with the Dems, he is now going to send Clinton to the Senate for a pep rally.
JohnnyAces
This is how you get bills passed. It's smart, not weak. He doesn't want an extermely divisive issue getting in the way of a much larger goal.
sonofloud
Let's see Obama try and cut this baby in half.
Once again Obama sells out the democratic base to appease religious fanatics.
cbeenthere
It was put to a vote in Congress, sonofloud, and the Republicans 127 and Dems46 voted to pass the bill because they are religious fundamentalists. President Obama did not have a vote, but your representatives did.
Plantagenet
Yesterday Obama went to the House and read his teleprompter ----the words on the teleprompter said they had passed a wonderful Obamacare bill.
It looks like today Obama's teleprompter says the health care bill passed by the house isn't so wonderful because it outlaws abortion under Obamacare. Why are these two messages on two successive days so completely different from one-another?
Did two different speechwriters program Obama's teleprompter on two different days? DId someone in the White House finally see fit to read the bill and recoil in horror at the anti-abortion rule only after Obama had already made a fool out of himself by celebrating the passage of the bill with the anti-abortion rule yesterday?
cbeenthere
If you know Plantarwart-
The Stupak Amendment was sprung just as the conservatives planned. The Democrats are not responsible for the reprehensible behavior of the C Street Gang who are becoming quite the scandal.
Plantagenet
hasbeen...your point is clear.
The democrats aren't responsible for the bill----they only voted for it.
Obama isn't responsible for the bill-----he only read his teleprompter in favor of it.
perrycindy
directed to the comment below at least president obama can read ole georgie could barely do that. pfftttt
cbeenthere
Oh, you mean all 64 Democrats that voted with the 176 Republicans. I would say this suited the Republicans way more than the 197 Democrats who voted against it.
cbeenthere
perrycindy-
The teleprompter is brought out in desperation by Wart and friends, which is pretty often.
socialworklady
cbeen,
Re: The Stupak-Pitts Amendment --
Stupak lives at C street -- has since 2002.
And Pitts has been involved with The Family since the mid 70's. He's a "core member." Pitts has worked over the years to fight abortion and AIDS funding.
Charmers.
cbeenthere
Looks like Mary Bono Mack, Republican Rep. voted for the Stupak Amendment. Conservative women playing victims blaming Democratic woman for this Amendment, this could get as interesting as C Street, socialworklady.
cbeenthere
Of course, Bachmann and Foxx voted for the amendment to limit abortion funding, wonder how many more Republican woman reps there are? Do you know sadie?
socialworklady
cbeen,
Should be easy to find out. I think you're following it more closely than me :)
patriotchick
Isn't this what legislators do to kill a bill? Put a poison pill in it? That was how they managed to get the DC voting rights bill quashed earlier this year - by tacking on the handgun carry provision. The C Streeters know this is the way to do things and Pitts manipulated Stupak into carrying the water so that the provision had a "D" attached to it.
And when health care goes down, the Republicans get to cheer and say it happened because a Democrat did it.
It's brilliant and evil and it is hard to believe that Stupak could be so stupid.
cbeenthere
I apologize, socialworklady, I misposted to you, I was addressing sadie, the conservative movement feminist , she seems unable to admit to herself that her cohorts played a big part in the Stupak Amend., must have been another thread. Sorry.
cbeenthere
That is exactly what the Republicans are up to, patriotchick. The most brilliant and evil trick.
cbeenthere
patriotchick-
See sadie's comments, she is the frontrunner for blaming the Democrats in the exact scheme you commented on.
socialworklady
Plant,
Telepromt this ....
FatFreddy
Plantagenet equates the teleprompter with that of the Queen's "Magic Mirror" in Snow White...
spittingoutteeth
Yeah, technology must be a frightening thing when you live in a dilapidated shack in the woods with nothing but your hate to keep you warm.
Garrison
He's appeasing the Ma Barker Bush crowd who in turn wish to buy the Palinistas way into the WH to bang us into slavery for the FOX Noise dandy boys.
unclelew
Oh, Planty. So ashamed of a president who can actually read.
I know we all had a habit of misunderestimating of your buddy Bush. But he rarely used the teleprompter because he couldn't read, at least not words like imminent al Qaida threat, economic collapse, unfunded war et cetera.
Garrison
Maybe Plantwad should be inducted by Bush's Homeland Security and shipped to Kabul with George, Jeb and Lez Cheney. Send some wingnuts to the war and spend their money.
cbeenthere
The words from this President were very wise: this is a health care bill, not an abortion bill. I knew there was a reason I voted for this man.
sadie101
Cheenthere you just keep showing your disrespect and misogyny for women. To hear you say that reproductive health is not an essential part of health care for women shows how deeply you dislike women. If Obama blew up 25K women with a small thermonuclear device u'd like him more! With friends like you Obama needs no enemies!
cbeenthere
Sorry sadie-
I am a woman of the seventies, you know, when women were making advances. What did you do to thwart the inclusion of this amendment? Absolutely nothing, no lobbying of your representatives who voted this onto the bill, no pressuring Planned Parenthood. Nothing, Nada, Zero, Zip. But you did rail against the President who did not even have a vote on this. Your republican women voted yes, yes, yes for it. Bachmann, Foxx, Bono-Mack etc etc. 127 Repugs voted yes, 46 dems yes
194 Dems NO. This amendment did not come from the back room, nor did it come solely from the Catholic Church.
The President wants the amendment out of the bill, this bill is not the place for changes in abortion policy, and that is exactly what he was stating. Abortion is already safe and legal under the present law, so what exactly are you railing against other than the Democratic Administration? You are a wolf in sheep's clothing, you are no centrist (abortion is a centrist issue, really?) Just what is it you are after, bashing Rachel Maddow, bashing the President, bashing Diana Degrette, interpreting that those of us who tried and are trying to prevent the inclusion of any, any and all limitations on women's health are the evil ones, while you have been sitting on your hands. What is your deal?
cbeenthere
Lest, you misunderstand yet again, sadie. Women are indeed fighting for funding and inclusion of all women's health issues including funding for abortion. The President did not rule that out by his statement, he is opposed to changes in the policy that put the squeeze even on what already exists. The amendment barred the funding for every woman, and there are women now fighting to have that changed. What have you done today to support them even though they are Democrats?
cbeenthere
And by funding I do not mean through taxes, I am referring to limitations on plans paid privately by women that were barred by the amendment, although it should be available to all.
laurel2009
FINALLY!!!!!!! The President is using his bully pulpit to insert himself into the discussion. Now, if he will only be as forthcoming about the need for a public option, we will be on the cusp of getting meaningful reform. And, could someone please tell me why it is the old, white men who are the most vocal opponents of choice???????????
bobj72
THE REASONS ARE; Philosophy, Value System, Financial considerations (relationship to Corp. America and EACH and EVERY aspect of the Health Care Industry), Dr.'s, Physician Ass'ts, Nurses, Hospitals, Clinics, Nursing Homes, Rehab Centers, Labs, Pharmaceutical/Drug industry, Medical Equipment and Medical Supplies. From R&D to Advertisement, Marketing, Wholesale and Retail sales to the consumer.
Supporting information follows; Seven (7) of the Top fifty (50) Fortune 500 companies in America are either Health Care Insurer's or they are related to the H/C industry. While it's suggested that the "H/C Parasites" ONLY earn 2% - 4% Profit annually. "The Truth" is Quite Different. Here are some "Thumbnail Averages" (of the top 8 H/C companies averages, compared to the "Same Avg. Sized" Fortune 500 company. For comparison, what is shown is the Actual Profit, as a percentage of Revenue, which is comprised of Revenue (earned), Assets (retained) and Share Holder Equity (to be paid to investor's.)
H/C Revenue $26Billion Annually Comparative Company $26 Billion Annually
H/C Profit 5.3% (plus 55.8%) Comparative Company 3.4%
H/C Assets 7.0% (plus 118.8%) Comparative Company 3.2%
Inv. Equity 19.5% (plus 116.7%) Comparative Company 9.0%
Total Profit 31.8% (plus 103.9%) Comparative Company 15.6%
Hope you find this information helpful.
AlanD2
Laurel: I am an old, white man who supports the right of women to make a choice. I am also a liberal. I suspect the most vocal opponents of choice tend to be conservatives, both male and female.
cbeenthere
And the female conservatives are the biggest shock to this old, white ladies' system, I thought women had a connection, but apparently not, and the so called conservative feministas have been controlling the social agenda while us liberal woman were out doing the work so that women would be in a position to fully participate in society.
tolatetocry
Never get between a liberal woman and her abortionist! Abortions are BIG business in this country. People make a ton of money killing babies. I don't want to pay for some one's else's kid and I don't want to pay for killing it either. You neuter your pets, neuter yourself! GET NEUTERED!
cbeenthere
After you.
socialworklady
Rock 'em Cb!
overdue
It's hyperbole, that 'big bizness' line.
But what's REALLY bringing in the dough are those MEGA CHURCHES.
Natch.
tolatetocry
overdue,
are you really comparing a church to an abortion clinic? at a church people really do give money to help the less fortunate, no human sacrifice required.
FatFreddy
tolatetocry,
Tell that to Dr George Tiller's family.
tolatetocry
Tiller, the baby killer,
had a family? those musta been some proud relatives!
Sure he did, KiLLing Babies is BIG, BIG Business, bet his family likes the blood money! BIG ABORTION!
slmpirate
My personal preferrence is that I would rather no woman had to undergo an abortion. However I also dont believe that I should dictate what my neighbor choses to do relative to her health.
With that said..Although you think abortions, at an average cost of nominally 500.00 per procedure is BIG business (maybe 1 billion annually) well your idea of BIG buisness and mine are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
I cant even calculate the fraction that 1 billion is in reference of total healthcare cost
manticore1223
The enthusiasm you express doesn't really match her post.....
flyoverland
As predicted here months ago, he will take what he can get and declare victory. Abortion, Gov't Option = toast.
perrycindy
nah we are gonna be okay health care will pass after fussing and fleshing it out and it will be okay, the democrats will take some time but get it done.
flyoverland
Cindy,
They will get something done, but it won't look like Pelosi-Care
socialworklady
perrycindy = a new and refreshing voice of reason at TDB.
Welcome!
AlanD2
flyoverland: Don't count your eggs before they hatch.
Llplo99
Good for Obama! The final bill will pass. It will not be perfect, but it will be a step forward in the right direction.
Demsdisorder
yes it will be the beginning of the end of abortion
. once the door is open you will here politicians campaigning on it hard. and most are pro life so do the math. pro life is making its move.
AlanD2
Like conservative extremists, pro-life is on its way toward the ash-heap of history, Demsdisorder.
overdue
I will happily send my french tax statements, french payroll stubs, and french medical receipts to anyone who would like to see how much (read "little") we pay over here, and to see how taxes are distributed in order to make it *somewhat* work.
tolatetocry
your offer is very generous, but do you realize France pop 63 million, US pop 303 million plus all of our "visitors" that's part of the problem here in the US, its not politically correct to even have an accurate citizen count. Our census workers are not allowed to ask if the person is a citizen or not! Makes it hard to plan a party! or anything else
AlanD2
tolatetocry: Our larger population makes no difference. Our government already handles 60% of America's health care costs - Medicaid, Medicare, and VA health care.
The limited number of new additions proposed by the public option will not put any stress on our government's ability to provide health care.
AlanD2
overdue: Glad to hear from you. I have been pushing the French health care system for many months here on the DB. Not only is it half the cost per person of what we Americans pay, but it provides the best health care in the world.
I would love to see more comments from you and others that live outside the U.S., since many posters here (like tolatetocry) seem to believe that America has the best of everything.
winston1
NO NO NO MORE FRENCH HC.
AlanD2
Sorry, Winnie. If you don't want to hear about French health care, go bug some other site.
Demsdisorder
loos like this bill will be the end of abortion as we know it. no more drive by abortions. good job boys
rapierwits
Not as long as pharmacies have drive-throughs!
Mixpixlix
There are no such thing as drive by abortions. Like so many who spout nonsense you are clueless. The majority of women having abortions are the victims of rape and or incest. Others, especially those seeking help in the second trimester are often carry fetues with no heads or brains or their organs are on the outside of the body and they WILL NOT SURVIVE outside the womb.
In addition, why are there more than 500,000 children in foster care with as many as 350,000 eligible for adoption but no one willing to take them. What about their lives. How come they don't matter to those who are so concerned about the life of a fetus?
You can not stop abortion, you can only make it illegal and dangerous.
And, while I like most rational people would prefer it not be necessary I understand that it is and, therefore, needs to be affordable, safe and legal.
Demsdisorder
Obama has made the first steps to stop it for most. unless you can pay big. your second trimester argument is bogus you will know before the second if your child will be seeing light so its just killing for convenience. as for your argument about the numbers i will bet that the 500.000 kids in the system will have a small problem with you killing them. The biggest joke of all is that most abortions are for rape and mothers life threatening problems.NOT TRUE. 80% of abortions are given to white woman 18-40 and its always as a mater of inconvenience that they get them. to much, to little, to early, to late, are the top 4 reasons,
stjam8
demsdisorder; What are your sources for the 80% number? And what is their income level?
AlanD2
Demsdisorder: Obama had nothing to do with the Stupak-Pitts amendment.
I'm betting that the final bill will not have this amendment in it. So crow while you can, Demsdisorder.
FatFreddy
Yes, almost all late term abortions are performed on women who want to have a baby.
Demsdisorder
yes a true but, what about the ones that aren't? you want to protect that.. ?.
FatFreddy
The remaining ones are mostly where the Mother's state of mental capacity would be a danger to the fetus or herself. Late term abortions make up about 1% of all abortions.
Demsdisorder
So much for blowing sunshine out your butt's... you libs will never learn you cant always get what you want but you will always get what you need.
NO Abortions for the rich but health care for the poor. seems like a good compromise.
AlanD2
The rich will always be able to get abortions, Demsdisorder. They can easily travel to other countries that have no restrictions.
As usual, your anti-abortion restrictions will affect only the poor.
By the way, you sure have a foul mouth - why don't you tone it down?
FatFreddy
When in trouble, play the "abortion card". I suspect the "illegal immigration card" will be played in the Senate.
rapierwits
well summarized. You've been reading the playbook again, huh?
FatFreddy
It's a short read. No "cheat sheet" required.
pennsykid2000
And conservatives in both houses will continue to use "increases the deficit" as a supplementary hypocritical excuse to oppose the health care bill. The self-proclaimed "fiscal conservatives" in the Republican congresses of earlier in this decade voted to spend hundreds of billions to invade and occupy Iraq, and to give the wealthy huge tax cuts, all without any clamor that these be "deficit neutral". The result was a doubling of the national debt, from $5 to $10 trillion, after the decade began with surpluses. Now that we want to extend health care access to tens of millions without it and eliminate other inequalities, suddenly Republicans (and blue dogs) demand that it not increase the deficit. What horrible, immoral, unAmerican values these people hold to! Placing greater importance on stupid wars and tax cuts for the rich than health care for those without it. I guess they've forever abandoned any pretense of being the party of "family values".
Demsdisorder
No one is talking about making abortion illegal just not ever payed for by the government or insurance (save money). if you want it pay.
FatFreddy
"if you want it pay"
Pay for what, private insurance?
Demsdisorder
The abortion!!! just hope its about $10,000 per. that would stop the killing for sure
FatFreddy
It's bad enough that the government is telling insurance companies what they must cover. Now you want to add to government interference into private contracts and tell the insurance companies what they can't cover? Why, to promote your own personal views on abortion? Not very free market minded of you. I guess Republican views on free markets only goes so far.
Demsdisorder
maybe the government needs not be in the insurance businessssssssss? are point from day one
democracyforall
Now if the Dems can remove the other egregious rules, they will make progress.
Obama will do anything for a vote, but this time dropping abortion makes sense, finally.
AlanD2
Demsdisorder: If women have insurance but are too poor to pay for an abortion themselves, you are effectively making it illegal for them.
Results are what count, not the drivel you sanctimoniously spout.
manticore1223
So its illegal for poor people to drive Ferraris? Just taking that argument to its logical conclusion.
AlanD2
Not having a Ferrari rarely leads to death, manticore1223. Forcing a woman to have a baby is much more likely to end in death.
winston1
Ya, obama just shove this bill down everyone's throat. Speed the HC bill up so no one could read the increase in taxes and all the other fraudulent crap in this bill.
cbeenthere
You can read and comprehend, could have fooled me.
winston1
cheen you are an A-- h---.
FatFreddy
In related news:
Man Confesses to Shooting Kan. Abortion Provider
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0RUEUN4esQ&feature=player_embedded
Demsdisorder
seem to me that the pro abortion crowd here feels killing a baby at will is cool but calling a man that murdered 13 people in the name of Allah a terrerist is wrong
that just about tells it all
FatFreddy
He's no more a terrorist than Scott Roeder. Oh wait, Scott Roeder wanted to use fear and violence to promote his own religious beliefs.
Terrorism definition:
n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Killing abortion doctors doesn't fall under this definition, right? Because it can be justified by a specific interpretation of the Bible?
SimonSaize
Its pro-choice not pro-abortion- seems to me like your not understanding. For the moist part I don't see people who are pro life as terrible, only a few turn out to be terrorists and murder for their cause- but fuels such animosity? Pro-lifers aren't adopting the children they want to keep into being "born"- so them taking the responsibility and forcing it on others is none of their goddamn business. People say they murder in the name of "Allah" most likely those people are mentally deficient or some other deep seated issue is in play, using God as an excuse is damaging,- as maybe mothers who are pro-life suffer with post part em depression and their disease imposes emotions into politics, so does God teachings impose emotions onto aggressive men set to destroy public property or lives. Alot alot of people don't believe in abortion and keep that in their personal lives- they also aren't killing or imposing rights on others- which is why I don't label them with a screwed up Pro-Life crowd who need to control strangers lives in order to prove some sort of fundamentalist point. What Pro-Lifers should do and by law only be allowed to do this, is give options and public service to possibly make women understand they do not have to abort. If the Pro-Lifers exceed their level of counseling they will be sued for harassment.
Sometimes people make things "cool" so they do not feel terrible about themselves, make jokes to subside the pain. Alot of women who have abortions suffer- that's also not anybodies responsibility. Christians suffer in their religion daily- is it my responsibility to try to remove them from that religion in order for them to be more "comfortable", no its fucking not ...I could give a shit. Get a life, you'd be surprised at how many don't care at all and will never never bother with either side of the issue.
Are you taking my words personally- because we have never met, have no relationship and what you read is interpreted by your own tone and thoughts- you have no idea or clue except for what you read as to a more detailed explanation of which my thoughts is-which aren't yours. Dismissed.
vanlan
I love it when pro-lifers refer to pro-choicers as being "pro-abortion." I always respond with,
"Oh, I'm not just 'pro-abortion.' I'm entirely 'anti-baby.'"
It usually shuts them up for a couple of seconds. I'd like to say it also makes them think, but...
manticore1223
Simon, i don't think its a case of want to force the responsibility on others, I think its a case of not providing an easy out for people's mistakes. Most people want those that get pregnant to accept responsibility. Both people in my case.
AlanD2
Demsdisorder: Killing a baby is illegal. Abortion is legal.
Therefor abortion is not "killing a baby".
By the way, why don't you find some other site to harass? As far as I can tell, you are nothing but a troll, trying to stir up trouble here. If you don't have anything useful to contribute, go away.
Demsdisorder
some day that guy might bee seen as hero ? .
FatFreddy
as Scott Roeder is seen as a "hero".
Thank you.
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