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HEALTH WARS

Obama: Drop Abortion From Health Bill

Barack Obama

After some silence on the issue, President Obama is finally speaking up about the abortion clause attached to the House's version of the health-care reform bill. "I laid out a very simple principle, which is this is a health-care bill, not an abortion bill," Obama told Jake Tapper on ABC's World News Tonight. The president stressed that the health-care bill that eventually passes shouldn't change what "has been in place for a very long time," which is a ban on federal subsidies for abortions. The controversial compromise in the House bill opposes the public option's coverage of abortions. Obama said that he wants to ensure "that the provision that emerges meets that test—that we are not in some way sneaking in funding for abortions, but, on the other hand, that we're not restricting women's insurance choices."

Posted at 9:04 PM, Nov 9, 2009
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Comments ()
neverlate

The great equivacator strikes again!

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9:14 pm, Nov 9, 2009
Desertpenguin

PLANTAGENET's comment that starts "Yesterday Obama went to the House and read his teleprompter..." uses Rules # 1 & 3 of THE 5 RULES OF PROPAGANDA --

1) The rule of orchestration: endlessly repeating the same messages in different variations and combinations.

3) The rule of disfiguration: discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies.

The other 3 RULES OF PROPAGANDA ARE--

2) The rule of simplification: reducing all data to a simple confrontation between 'Good and Bad', 'Friend and Foe'.

4) The rule of transfusion: manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one's own ends.

5) The rule of unanimity: presenting one's viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right-thinking people: draining the doubting individual into agreement by the appeal of star-performers, by social pressure, and by 'psychological contagion'.

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1:41 am, Nov 10, 2009
socialworklady

The rules unmasking Plant's bullsh!t are back.
Woot!

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2:13 am, Nov 10, 2009
WestVillager

It's better when Obama voices his opinion. I prefer my president to have a point of view.

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8:38 am, Nov 10, 2009
sadie101

Obama cuts a backroom deal to screw over women, then spends all day twisting dems arms to accept this sell out of women and now he wants to tell us he doesn't like it?

Exactly how dumb does Obama think women are, exactly?

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10:24 am, Nov 10, 2009
johnwr3

This is getting weird. We have never had a president, at least in my life time, who has been more of a fence sitter. I think it might just be a cultural thing for me? I like my presidents to be strong statesman not poll driven centrists on the creamy surface covering a nutty cake of liberal theories and ideology. Talk about playing it safe, Obama is like the guy at a Super Bowl party who waits for the end of the 4th quarter before choosing sides. It's annoying. I like my leaders to drive not just sit in the child seat. Does anyone else think his "play it safe" approach is weak vs. thoughtful?

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9:15 am, Nov 10, 2009
Carole65

Very good description, johnwr3. It's hard to figure out if he wanted no abortion language in the health care bill, went to the House on Sat. for a pep rally, and the House then included abortion coverage, or lack therof, language and passed it, where the disconnect occurred. Since that didn't work out so well with the Dems, he is now going to send Clinton to the Senate for a pep rally.

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11:07 am, Nov 10, 2009
JohnnyAces

This is how you get bills passed. It's smart, not weak. He doesn't want an extermely divisive issue getting in the way of a much larger goal.

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11:17 am, Nov 10, 2009
sonofloud

Let's see Obama try and cut this baby in half.
Once again Obama sells out the democratic base to appease religious fanatics.

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9:59 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

It was put to a vote in Congress, sonofloud, and the Republicans 127 and Dems46 voted to pass the bill because they are religious fundamentalists. President Obama did not have a vote, but your representatives did.

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10:14 am, Nov 10, 2009
Plantagenet

Yesterday Obama went to the House and read his teleprompter ----the words on the teleprompter said they had passed a wonderful Obamacare bill.

It looks like today Obama's teleprompter says the health care bill passed by the house isn't so wonderful because it outlaws abortion under Obamacare. Why are these two messages on two successive days so completely different from one-another?

Did two different speechwriters program Obama's teleprompter on two different days? DId someone in the White House finally see fit to read the bill and recoil in horror at the anti-abortion rule only after Obama had already made a fool out of himself by celebrating the passage of the bill with the anti-abortion rule yesterday?

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9:14 pm, Nov 9, 2009
cbeenthere

If you know Plantarwart-
The Stupak Amendment was sprung just as the conservatives planned. The Democrats are not responsible for the reprehensible behavior of the C Street Gang who are becoming quite the scandal.

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9:32 pm, Nov 9, 2009
Plantagenet

hasbeen...your point is clear.

The democrats aren't responsible for the bill----they only voted for it.
Obama isn't responsible for the bill-----he only read his teleprompter in favor of it.

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9:39 pm, Nov 9, 2009
perrycindy

directed to the comment below at least president obama can read ole georgie could barely do that. pfftttt

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10:19 pm, Nov 9, 2009
cbeenthere

Oh, you mean all 64 Democrats that voted with the 176 Republicans. I would say this suited the Republicans way more than the 197 Democrats who voted against it.

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10:23 pm, Nov 9, 2009
cbeenthere

perrycindy-
The teleprompter is brought out in desperation by Wart and friends, which is pretty often.

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10:32 pm, Nov 9, 2009
socialworklady

cbeen,

Re: The Stupak-Pitts Amendment --

Stupak lives at C street -- has since 2002.

And Pitts has been involved with The Family since the mid 70's. He's a "core member." Pitts has worked over the years to fight abortion and AIDS funding.

Charmers.



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11:35 pm, Nov 9, 2009
cbeenthere

Looks like Mary Bono Mack, Republican Rep. voted for the Stupak Amendment. Conservative women playing victims blaming Democratic woman for this Amendment, this could get as interesting as C Street, socialworklady.

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12:22 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

Of course, Bachmann and Foxx voted for the amendment to limit abortion funding, wonder how many more Republican woman reps there are? Do you know sadie?

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12:29 am, Nov 10, 2009
socialworklady

cbeen,

Should be easy to find out. I think you're following it more closely than me :)

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2:22 am, Nov 10, 2009
patriotchick

Isn't this what legislators do to kill a bill? Put a poison pill in it? That was how they managed to get the DC voting rights bill quashed earlier this year - by tacking on the handgun carry provision. The C Streeters know this is the way to do things and Pitts manipulated Stupak into carrying the water so that the provision had a "D" attached to it.

And when health care goes down, the Republicans get to cheer and say it happened because a Democrat did it.

It's brilliant and evil and it is hard to believe that Stupak could be so stupid.

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7:57 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

I apologize, socialworklady, I misposted to you, I was addressing sadie, the conservative movement feminist , she seems unable to admit to herself that her cohorts played a big part in the Stupak Amend., must have been another thread. Sorry.

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9:37 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

That is exactly what the Republicans are up to, patriotchick. The most brilliant and evil trick.

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9:39 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

patriotchick-
See sadie's comments, she is the frontrunner for blaming the Democrats in the exact scheme you commented on.

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12:17 pm, Nov 10, 2009
socialworklady

Plant,

Telepromt this ....

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11:25 pm, Nov 9, 2009
FatFreddy

Plantagenet equates the teleprompter with that of the Queen's "Magic Mirror" in Snow White...

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6:31 am, Nov 10, 2009
spittingoutteeth

Yeah, technology must be a frightening thing when you live in a dilapidated shack in the woods with nothing but your hate to keep you warm.

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8:20 am, Nov 10, 2009
Garrison

He's appeasing the Ma Barker Bush crowd who in turn wish to buy the Palinistas way into the WH to bang us into slavery for the FOX Noise dandy boys.

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11:01 am, Nov 10, 2009
unclelew

Oh, Planty. So ashamed of a president who can actually read.
I know we all had a habit of misunderestimating of your buddy Bush. But he rarely used the teleprompter because he couldn't read, at least not words like imminent al Qaida threat, economic collapse, unfunded war et cetera.

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9:37 am, Nov 10, 2009
Garrison

Maybe Plantwad should be inducted by Bush's Homeland Security and shipped to Kabul with George, Jeb and Lez Cheney. Send some wingnuts to the war and spend their money.

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11:10 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

The words from this President were very wise: this is a health care bill, not an abortion bill. I knew there was a reason I voted for this man.

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9:27 pm, Nov 9, 2009
sadie101

Cheenthere you just keep showing your disrespect and misogyny for women. To hear you say that reproductive health is not an essential part of health care for women shows how deeply you dislike women. If Obama blew up 25K women with a small thermonuclear device u'd like him more! With friends like you Obama needs no enemies!

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10:28 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

Sorry sadie-
I am a woman of the seventies, you know, when women were making advances. What did you do to thwart the inclusion of this amendment? Absolutely nothing, no lobbying of your representatives who voted this onto the bill, no pressuring Planned Parenthood. Nothing, Nada, Zero, Zip. But you did rail against the President who did not even have a vote on this. Your republican women voted yes, yes, yes for it. Bachmann, Foxx, Bono-Mack etc etc. 127 Repugs voted yes, 46 dems yes
194 Dems NO. This amendment did not come from the back room, nor did it come solely from the Catholic Church.
The President wants the amendment out of the bill, this bill is not the place for changes in abortion policy, and that is exactly what he was stating. Abortion is already safe and legal under the present law, so what exactly are you railing against other than the Democratic Administration? You are a wolf in sheep's clothing, you are no centrist (abortion is a centrist issue, really?) Just what is it you are after, bashing Rachel Maddow, bashing the President, bashing Diana Degrette, interpreting that those of us who tried and are trying to prevent the inclusion of any, any and all limitations on women's health are the evil ones, while you have been sitting on your hands. What is your deal?

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11:27 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

Lest, you misunderstand yet again, sadie. Women are indeed fighting for funding and inclusion of all women's health issues including funding for abortion. The President did not rule that out by his statement, he is opposed to changes in the policy that put the squeeze even on what already exists. The amendment barred the funding for every woman, and there are women now fighting to have that changed. What have you done today to support them even though they are Democrats?

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11:46 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

And by funding I do not mean through taxes, I am referring to limitations on plans paid privately by women that were barred by the amendment, although it should be available to all.

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11:59 am, Nov 10, 2009
laurel2009

FINALLY!!!!!!! The President is using his bully pulpit to insert himself into the discussion. Now, if he will only be as forthcoming about the need for a public option, we will be on the cusp of getting meaningful reform. And, could someone please tell me why it is the old, white men who are the most vocal opponents of choice???????????

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9:44 pm, Nov 9, 2009
bobj72

THE REASONS ARE; Philosophy, Value System, Financial considerations (relationship to Corp. America and EACH and EVERY aspect of the Health Care Industry), Dr.'s, Physician Ass'ts, Nurses, Hospitals, Clinics, Nursing Homes, Rehab Centers, Labs, Pharmaceutical/Drug industry, Medical Equipment and Medical Supplies. From R&D to Advertisement, Marketing, Wholesale and Retail sales to the consumer.

Supporting information follows; Seven (7) of the Top fifty (50) Fortune 500 companies in America are either Health Care Insurer's or they are related to the H/C industry. While it's suggested that the "H/C Parasites" ONLY earn 2% - 4% Profit annually. "The Truth" is Quite Different. Here are some "Thumbnail Averages" (of the top 8 H/C companies averages, compared to the "Same Avg. Sized" Fortune 500 company. For comparison, what is shown is the Actual Profit, as a percentage of Revenue, which is comprised of Revenue (earned), Assets (retained) and Share Holder Equity (to be paid to investor's.)

H/C Revenue $26Billion Annually Comparative Company $26 Billion Annually

H/C Profit 5.3% (plus 55.8%) Comparative Company 3.4%
H/C Assets 7.0% (plus 118.8%) Comparative Company 3.2%
Inv. Equity 19.5% (plus 116.7%) Comparative Company 9.0%

Total Profit 31.8% (plus 103.9%) Comparative Company 15.6%

Hope you find this information helpful.


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10:34 pm, Nov 9, 2009
AlanD2

Laurel: I am an old, white man who supports the right of women to make a choice. I am also a liberal. I suspect the most vocal opponents of choice tend to be conservatives, both male and female.

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12:16 pm, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

And the female conservatives are the biggest shock to this old, white ladies' system, I thought women had a connection, but apparently not, and the so called conservative feministas have been controlling the social agenda while us liberal woman were out doing the work so that women would be in a position to fully participate in society.

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12:48 pm, Nov 10, 2009
tolatetocry

Never get between a liberal woman and her abortionist! Abortions are BIG business in this country. People make a ton of money killing babies. I don't want to pay for some one's else's kid and I don't want to pay for killing it either. You neuter your pets, neuter yourself! GET NEUTERED!

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10:03 pm, Nov 9, 2009
cbeenthere

After you.

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10:24 pm, Nov 9, 2009
socialworklady

Rock 'em Cb!

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11:26 pm, Nov 9, 2009
overdue

It's hyperbole, that 'big bizness' line.
But what's REALLY bringing in the dough are those MEGA CHURCHES.
Natch.

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1:24 am, Nov 10, 2009
tolatetocry

overdue,

are you really comparing a church to an abortion clinic? at a church people really do give money to help the less fortunate, no human sacrifice required.

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3:29 am, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

tolatetocry,

Tell that to Dr George Tiller's family.

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6:33 am, Nov 10, 2009
tolatetocry

Tiller, the baby killer,
had a family? those musta been some proud relatives!

Sure he did, KiLLing Babies is BIG, BIG Business, bet his family likes the blood money! BIG ABORTION!

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3:05 pm, Nov 10, 2009
slmpirate

My personal preferrence is that I would rather no woman had to undergo an abortion. However I also dont believe that I should dictate what my neighbor choses to do relative to her health.

With that said..Although you think abortions, at an average cost of nominally 500.00 per procedure is BIG business (maybe 1 billion annually) well your idea of BIG buisness and mine are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
I cant even calculate the fraction that 1 billion is in reference of total healthcare cost

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2:35 pm, Nov 10, 2009
manticore1223

The enthusiasm you express doesn't really match her post.....

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3:25 pm, Nov 10, 2009
flyoverland

As predicted here months ago, he will take what he can get and declare victory. Abortion, Gov't Option = toast.

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10:04 pm, Nov 9, 2009
perrycindy

nah we are gonna be okay health care will pass after fussing and fleshing it out and it will be okay, the democrats will take some time but get it done.

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10:20 pm, Nov 9, 2009
flyoverland

Cindy,
They will get something done, but it won't look like Pelosi-Care

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11:22 pm, Nov 9, 2009
socialworklady

perrycindy = a new and refreshing voice of reason at TDB.

Welcome!

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11:27 pm, Nov 9, 2009
AlanD2

flyoverland: Don't count your eggs before they hatch.

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12:18 pm, Nov 10, 2009
Llplo99

Good for Obama! The final bill will pass. It will not be perfect, but it will be a step forward in the right direction.

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11:38 pm, Nov 9, 2009
Demsdisorder

yes it will be the beginning of the end of abortion
. once the door is open you will here politicians campaigning on it hard. and most are pro life so do the math. pro life is making its move.

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8:47 am, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

Like conservative extremists, pro-life is on its way toward the ash-heap of history, Demsdisorder.

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12:19 pm, Nov 10, 2009
overdue

I will happily send my french tax statements, french payroll stubs, and french medical receipts to anyone who would like to see how much (read "little") we pay over here, and to see how taxes are distributed in order to make it *somewhat* work.

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1:28 am, Nov 10, 2009
tolatetocry

your offer is very generous, but do you realize France pop 63 million, US pop 303 million plus all of our "visitors" that's part of the problem here in the US, its not politically correct to even have an accurate citizen count. Our census workers are not allowed to ask if the person is a citizen or not! Makes it hard to plan a party! or anything else

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3:38 am, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

tolatetocry: Our larger population makes no difference. Our government already handles 60% of America's health care costs - Medicaid, Medicare, and VA health care.

The limited number of new additions proposed by the public option will not put any stress on our government's ability to provide health care.

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12:22 pm, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

overdue: Glad to hear from you. I have been pushing the French health care system for many months here on the DB. Not only is it half the cost per person of what we Americans pay, but it provides the best health care in the world.

I would love to see more comments from you and others that live outside the U.S., since many posters here (like tolatetocry) seem to believe that America has the best of everything.

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12:50 pm, Nov 10, 2009
winston1

NO NO NO MORE FRENCH HC.

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5:10 pm, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

Sorry, Winnie. If you don't want to hear about French health care, go bug some other site.

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11:36 pm, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

loos like this bill will be the end of abortion as we know it. no more drive by abortions. good job boys

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5:24 am, Nov 10, 2009
rapierwits

Not as long as pharmacies have drive-throughs!

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7:08 am, Nov 10, 2009
Mixpixlix

There are no such thing as drive by abortions. Like so many who spout nonsense you are clueless. The majority of women having abortions are the victims of rape and or incest. Others, especially those seeking help in the second trimester are often carry fetues with no heads or brains or their organs are on the outside of the body and they WILL NOT SURVIVE outside the womb.

In addition, why are there more than 500,000 children in foster care with as many as 350,000 eligible for adoption but no one willing to take them. What about their lives. How come they don't matter to those who are so concerned about the life of a fetus?

You can not stop abortion, you can only make it illegal and dangerous.

And, while I like most rational people would prefer it not be necessary I understand that it is and, therefore, needs to be affordable, safe and legal.

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6:21 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

Obama has made the first steps to stop it for most. unless you can pay big. your second trimester argument is bogus you will know before the second if your child will be seeing light so its just killing for convenience. as for your argument about the numbers i will bet that the 500.000 kids in the system will have a small problem with you killing them. The biggest joke of all is that most abortions are for rape and mothers life threatening problems.NOT TRUE. 80% of abortions are given to white woman 18-40 and its always as a mater of inconvenience that they get them. to much, to little, to early, to late, are the top 4 reasons,

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6:39 am, Nov 10, 2009
stjam8

demsdisorder; What are your sources for the 80% number? And what is their income level?

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10:55 am, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

Demsdisorder: Obama had nothing to do with the Stupak-Pitts amendment.

I'm betting that the final bill will not have this amendment in it. So crow while you can, Demsdisorder.

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12:58 pm, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

Yes, almost all late term abortions are performed on women who want to have a baby.

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6:41 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

yes a true but, what about the ones that aren't? you want to protect that.. ?.

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7:12 am, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

The remaining ones are mostly where the Mother's state of mental capacity would be a danger to the fetus or herself. Late term abortions make up about 1% of all abortions.

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7:29 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

So much for blowing sunshine out your butt's... you libs will never learn you cant always get what you want but you will always get what you need.
NO Abortions for the rich but health care for the poor. seems like a good compromise.

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6:25 am, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

The rich will always be able to get abortions, Demsdisorder. They can easily travel to other countries that have no restrictions.

As usual, your anti-abortion restrictions will affect only the poor.

By the way, you sure have a foul mouth - why don't you tone it down?

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1:01 pm, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

When in trouble, play the "abortion card". I suspect the "illegal immigration card" will be played in the Senate.

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6:38 am, Nov 10, 2009
rapierwits

well summarized. You've been reading the playbook again, huh?

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7:11 am, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

It's a short read. No "cheat sheet" required.

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7:30 am, Nov 10, 2009
pennsykid2000

And conservatives in both houses will continue to use "increases the deficit" as a supplementary hypocritical excuse to oppose the health care bill. The self-proclaimed "fiscal conservatives" in the Republican congresses of earlier in this decade voted to spend hundreds of billions to invade and occupy Iraq, and to give the wealthy huge tax cuts, all without any clamor that these be "deficit neutral". The result was a doubling of the national debt, from $5 to $10 trillion, after the decade began with surpluses. Now that we want to extend health care access to tens of millions without it and eliminate other inequalities, suddenly Republicans (and blue dogs) demand that it not increase the deficit. What horrible, immoral, unAmerican values these people hold to! Placing greater importance on stupid wars and tax cuts for the rich than health care for those without it. I guess they've forever abandoned any pretense of being the party of "family values".

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9:33 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

No one is talking about making abortion illegal just not ever payed for by the government or insurance (save money). if you want it pay.

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7:12 am, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

"if you want it pay"

Pay for what, private insurance?

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7:39 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

The abortion!!! just hope its about $10,000 per. that would stop the killing for sure

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7:50 am, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

It's bad enough that the government is telling insurance companies what they must cover. Now you want to add to government interference into private contracts and tell the insurance companies what they can't cover? Why, to promote your own personal views on abortion? Not very free market minded of you. I guess Republican views on free markets only goes so far.

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8:03 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

maybe the government needs not be in the insurance businessssssssss? are point from day one

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8:50 am, Nov 10, 2009
democracyforall

Now if the Dems can remove the other egregious rules, they will make progress.
Obama will do anything for a vote, but this time dropping abortion makes sense, finally.

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11:54 am, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

Demsdisorder: If women have insurance but are too poor to pay for an abortion themselves, you are effectively making it illegal for them.

Results are what count, not the drivel you sanctimoniously spout.

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1:04 pm, Nov 10, 2009
manticore1223

So its illegal for poor people to drive Ferraris? Just taking that argument to its logical conclusion.

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3:30 pm, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

Not having a Ferrari rarely leads to death, manticore1223. Forcing a woman to have a baby is much more likely to end in death.

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12:41 pm, Nov 11, 2009
winston1

Ya, obama just shove this bill down everyone's throat. Speed the HC bill up so no one could read the increase in taxes and all the other fraudulent crap in this bill.

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7:32 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

You can read and comprehend, could have fooled me.

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9:43 am, Nov 10, 2009
winston1

cheen you are an A-- h---.

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5:11 pm, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

In related news:

Man Confesses to Shooting Kan. Abortion Provider

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0RUEUN4esQ&feature=player_embedded

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7:37 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

seem to me that the pro abortion crowd here feels killing a baby at will is cool but calling a man that murdered 13 people in the name of Allah a terrerist is wrong
that just about tells it all

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7:47 am, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

He's no more a terrorist than Scott Roeder. Oh wait, Scott Roeder wanted to use fear and violence to promote his own religious beliefs.

Terrorism definition:

n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Killing abortion doctors doesn't fall under this definition, right? Because it can be justified by a specific interpretation of the Bible?

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8:15 am, Nov 10, 2009
SimonSaize

Its pro-choice not pro-abortion- seems to me like your not understanding. For the moist part I don't see people who are pro life as terrible, only a few turn out to be terrorists and murder for their cause- but fuels such animosity? Pro-lifers aren't adopting the children they want to keep into being "born"- so them taking the responsibility and forcing it on others is none of their goddamn business. People say they murder in the name of "Allah" most likely those people are mentally deficient or some other deep seated issue is in play, using God as an excuse is damaging,- as maybe mothers who are pro-life suffer with post part em depression and their disease imposes emotions into politics, so does God teachings impose emotions onto aggressive men set to destroy public property or lives. Alot alot of people don't believe in abortion and keep that in their personal lives- they also aren't killing or imposing rights on others- which is why I don't label them with a screwed up Pro-Life crowd who need to control strangers lives in order to prove some sort of fundamentalist point. What Pro-Lifers should do and by law only be allowed to do this, is give options and public service to possibly make women understand they do not have to abort. If the Pro-Lifers exceed their level of counseling they will be sued for harassment.
Sometimes people make things "cool" so they do not feel terrible about themselves, make jokes to subside the pain. Alot of women who have abortions suffer- that's also not anybodies responsibility. Christians suffer in their religion daily- is it my responsibility to try to remove them from that religion in order for them to be more "comfortable", no its fucking not ...I could give a shit. Get a life, you'd be surprised at how many don't care at all and will never never bother with either side of the issue.
Are you taking my words personally- because we have never met, have no relationship and what you read is interpreted by your own tone and thoughts- you have no idea or clue except for what you read as to a more detailed explanation of which my thoughts is-which aren't yours. Dismissed.

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8:29 am, Nov 10, 2009
vanlan

I love it when pro-lifers refer to pro-choicers as being "pro-abortion." I always respond with,

"Oh, I'm not just 'pro-abortion.' I'm entirely 'anti-baby.'"

It usually shuts them up for a couple of seconds. I'd like to say it also makes them think, but...

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12:03 pm, Nov 10, 2009
manticore1223

Simon, i don't think its a case of want to force the responsibility on others, I think its a case of not providing an easy out for people's mistakes. Most people want those that get pregnant to accept responsibility. Both people in my case.

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3:32 pm, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

Demsdisorder: Killing a baby is illegal. Abortion is legal.

Therefor abortion is not "killing a baby".

By the way, why don't you find some other site to harass? As far as I can tell, you are nothing but a troll, trying to stir up trouble here. If you don't have anything useful to contribute, go away.

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3:43 pm, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

some day that guy might bee seen as hero ? .

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7:49 am, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy


as Scott Roeder is seen as a "hero".

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8:16 am, Nov 10, 2009
aackc1

The president stressed that the health-care bill that eventually passes shouldn't change what "has been in place for a very long time," which is a ban on federal subsidies for abortions.

I am happy for those that voted for HOPE & CHANGE! B/c this a subject and issue that should not change. That is according to Obama.

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7:57 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

Im thinking this whole thing is to muddy the waters so the Dem's can kill this bill and save face and lets not forget be able to blame the Rep's.

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8:04 am, Nov 10, 2009
FatFreddy

Now, you're thinking like a politician!

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8:18 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

i cant decide if that's a insult =/

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8:53 am, Nov 10, 2009
onward-and-upward

Does anyone else notice the irony here?

Right-leaning members of Congress have been howling about a potential government takeover of health care since this whole thing started.

Yet, the only thing that pacified some of these protestors was the abortion amendment, which actually INCREASED the government's regulation of the health-care system.

Just sayin'.

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8:20 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

for some of us... if we need to have the government run HC to stop abortion its the price we have to pay. its just that simple. so lets pass this bill and be on the way to a country that values innocent human life.

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8:57 am, Nov 10, 2009
onward-and-upward

Ok...so government intervention into the health-care system is ok only in the case of abortion to protect "innocent human life?" What about the "innocent human life" of the people who have actually made it out of the birth canal, who are losing their health and lives due to the backward health insurance system in this country? The government shouldn't intervene on behalf of those individuals?

Additionally, countries that impose stricter anti-abortion laws do not actually see a decrease in the number of abortions; what they do experience is an increase in the number of clinically unsafe abortions ("back-alley abortions," if you will). What has been shown to turn the tide against abortions is improved sex education and availability of contraception.

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9:29 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

let me say it one more time. I do NOT want the GOV involved in insurance, but if it meant stopping drive by abortions im willing to change my mind.
so i will support this bill. for the good of man kind.
so all you liberals need to see that there is always compromise.

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9:45 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

demsdisorder-
A martyr for the cause, why do I see a disingenuous person? Wonder why? Hmm...

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9:55 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

I dont know how you could?

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10:02 am, Nov 10, 2009
manticore1223

Onward, sex education is one place I'm with you. If the bill won't cover abortions, it sure as heck should cover contraception. Improved sex education is a MUST. It is, in my opinion, the highest cost to benefit improvement we can possible make right now. A little prevention goes a long way, and I'm will to bet a large number of the poverty stricken would have had much different outcomes if they didn't have a child early on. Sexual education reform is a MUST.

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3:37 pm, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

Oh, it will get passed, Demsdisorder.

But without the Stupak-Pitts amendment. (Or is it the stupid pits amendment?)

By the way, I understand Stupak is part of the C Street gang. Right up there with Ensign.

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3:58 pm, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

cbeenthere: When you look at Demsdisorder, I think you see a troll.

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3:59 pm, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

onward-
It did not get by me.

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9:45 am, Nov 10, 2009
MaliciousDisorder

More hope and change, Don't you just love being fools ?

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9:01 am, Nov 10, 2009
NanCMac

We can't afford to use the healthcare system as a form of
birth control. Get yourself nuetered if you don't want babies.
People too lazy to use another form of birth control use abortion the wrong way. It should be available to women who have been raped, are ill, or in the case of incest = rape, again.
I applaud Obama for making this decision and wish he would make more....like pulling out of Afganistan....a losing war...a senseless war. Why can't we learn anything??

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9:09 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

agreed, well said

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9:46 am, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

In case you can't read, NanCMac, this was not Obama's decision. It was an amendment proposed by Stupak and Pitts in the House, and passed mostly by Republicans.

By the way, abortion is a lot cheaper (and less dangerous to the woman) than having a baby.

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4:04 pm, Nov 10, 2009
DeliaK

This is another in the "Wag the Dog" strategies of the GOP. All it does is get people crazed over pro-choice and pro-life issues. Frankly, if the GOP is advocating choice by going across state-lines to purchase insurance, than pro-choice should likewise be advocating for abortion. Again, I ask one other pertinent question, what MEN'S

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9:34 am, Nov 10, 2009
DeliaK

My question is What will not be covered for men? Is there any "male" issue that is so divisive?

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9:36 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

I think covering Viagra is a joke. i mean come on if you cant make it happen on your own. the people of this nation need not pay for you to.
do you know that convicted pedophiles & rapist's get Viagra through medicaid?

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9:51 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

Do you really enjoy spreading misinformation that nobody buys? Oh, the futility of it all. Sad.

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10:17 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

what part isn't true?

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10:18 am, Nov 10, 2009
AlanD2

cbeenthere: No, Demsdisorder enjoys trolling.

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4:05 pm, Nov 10, 2009
manticore1223

I agree that covering Viagra is bullshit.

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3:38 pm, Nov 10, 2009
Zero001

I don't see the liberal issue in this. A woman can still spend her own money to have an abortion. No rights have been denied.

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9:56 am, Nov 10, 2009
Demsdisorder

I'm starting to think its just about the fight no matter what the issue. jmtc

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10:04 am, Nov 10, 2009
Carole65

A woman can probably spend "out of pocket" money for an elective abortion, which excludes abortions covered in the Hyde Ammendment.
But if a women gets money from a proposed public option for the purchase of private health insurance, she is barred from purchasing health insurance which includes elective abortions. That's how I understand it.......

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11:17 am, Nov 10, 2009
UglyRed

Indeed a funny thing happened on the way to Obama's Health
Care Plan Camp...........There was Pelosi, bigger than life, taking her knife out on abortion. Then the less intelligent women from Obamaland, threw in their neatly pressed slacks, and voted as a low rider.

Of course Nancy is out in all parts of this Country, saying she had to do what she had to do, and Obama's has agreed to come out and make it less difficult for Pelosi and the pro choice liberals who voted to destroy the civil rights, and the privacy rights of indigent women care.

They relentlessly were in a hurry to pass this bill, and in doing so they took the knife out of their pockets and went after abortion, and women's rights.

The message from the Obama camp is that women are basically powerless, and will remain so.

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10:36 am, Nov 10, 2009
cbeenthere

Women from "Obamaland" did not vote for the amendment. Get your facts straight.

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12:31 pm, Nov 10, 2009
mrmoose

I didn't know if my granddaughter had learned her
colors yet, so I decided to test her. I would point out
something and ask what color it was. She would tell me and
was always correct. It was fun for me, so I continued. At
last she headed for the door, saying, 'Grandpa, I think
you should try to figure out some of these yourself!'
Just a funny story for a Tuesday
Have a GREAT day and remember to smile now and then

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10:39 am, Nov 10, 2009
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