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2009
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NOVEMBER 2009
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DIPLOMACY

Obama Reaches Out to China

President Obama used a speech in Tokyo to send a message to Beijing: We come in peace. “I know there are many who question how the United States perceives China’s emergence,” Obama said, according to The New York Times. But he added, “In an interconnected world, power does not need to be a zero-sum game, and nations need not fear the success of another.” Obama also urged Asian nations to view the United States as a Pacific partner, even using his own biography to add to the case. “My own life is part of that story,” he said. “I am an American president who was born in Hawaii and lived in Indonesia as a boy. My sister Maya was born in Jakarta and later married a Chinese-Canadian. My mother spent nearly a decade working in the villages of Southeast Asia, helping women buy a sewing machine or an education that might give them a foothold in the world economy.”

Posted at 8:04 AM, Nov 14, 2009
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Comments ()
Demsdisorder

OMG... what a self serving ASS.

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8:20 am, Nov 14, 2009
progressiveaggressive

I know, right?
What a dick to think that America might be better off working with other nations.
How narcissistic to use a personal story to relate to someone else.
Doesn't our President know that the ONLY way to prove America's worth is to force other nations to our will?
Doesn't our President know that the ideals of our country are so fragile, its risky to even use them-like the good china plates?

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8:39 am, Nov 14, 2009
LostPatriot

No problem, if they look they will find those nasty little aluminum tubes and smoking guns. Then it's all slam bam thank you mama. We'll show show them thar commies a thing or two when we bomb them silly!!!!!

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11:25 am, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

And how well did that work in Vietnam, LostPatriot?

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12:39 pm, Nov 14, 2009
hfb1053

Dems - Don't talk so harshly about yourself.

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9:44 am, Nov 14, 2009
diamondgirl

He will kiss China's butt to get the money he needs to fund his Out Of Control Spending Programs, so he can make United States just China. Run by a Dictator, with all the communist sprinkles of on top. China will jump at the chance to help him do that, we will be partners alright, partners in crime..

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9:51 am, Nov 14, 2009
jaydeekay

You can take your hand out of your pants now.

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10:20 am, Nov 14, 2009
makeclear

Mr Clinton left a surplus od $500 Billion in the Treasury
Eight years later, a deficit of over a $ trillion was left, to this new President.
Two wars were created, costing over $1 billiom per month. So far over a $1 trillion have been spent on them.
None of these wars were funded or budgeted.
Medicare part D was created 4 years ago, it was not funded or budgeted.
A new Department of Home Land security was created. Adding to the buracracy of the Government. It added thousands to the Government's payroll .
There was no need for this creature, called Home Land Security, all the security Agencies were already in place, except for TSA.
Talk about spending being out of control, just think about the cost of those few items above. The are the major contributors to where we are today.
The last Administration had 2 stimulus packages, both of which may equal the one this Administration put in place.
One cannot talk about run away spending without looking at the woeful spending habits of the past, which are now legacy issues.
This President should have been left with a budget surplus, and no wars instead he was left with a huge deficit, and two wars that have no end in sight.
Deal with the facts, and the truth.
Insults, and swearing does not add to the debate.

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9:19 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Nice bit of trolling to start the day, Demsdisorder.

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12:38 pm, Nov 14, 2009
camfield

'Fraid you must have him confused with some paranoid fat-assed conservative who's sitting around totally concerned with his personal bank account (and to hell with everyone else).

More power to Obama. It's a great step forward for the world to have someone with his empathy and compassion in his position of influence.

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2:10 pm, Nov 14, 2009
dblj51

Spoken like a true reb-ass

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8:29 am, Nov 14, 2009
squareyellowpaper

Will he reach out to Americans?

Obama will be elected to a second term. The question is whether he will attain some wisdom by 2012.

Granted, he has been in office less than a year, but he has done little to impress and less to maintain America's trust in and enthusiasm for his presidency.

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8:29 am, Nov 14, 2009
Demsdisorder

No chance he has a second term. Im starting to wonder if he will be able to finish a first without being thrown out of office.

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9:09 am, Nov 14, 2009
hfb1053

Keep dreaming.

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9:44 am, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people. We get what we pay for. Look at Congress.

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10:24 am, Nov 14, 2009
jolebo

da, Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.
We certainly saw that when George Bush was elected to two terms.

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10:47 am, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

jolebo....good point. The same that holds true for voters of Congress, definitely holds true for voters of Obama and Bush. It's a sad state of the American education system that so many people's minds are so easily molded like soft clay, by the very people they have elected to serve them. But they work for us, right?....right? Don't be so naive as to think that for a second. And don't believe that anyone in government looks out for the people they're supposed to serve before their own power, political and personal interests.

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11:18 am, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Demsdisorder: Surely you are thinking back to George W. Bush?

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12:42 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

devilsadvocate: You and your extremist views are a prime example of a mind so easily molded like soft clay by Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

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12:44 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Honchos

Ah, the old Republican game plan: if you lose the election fair and square- start talking about impeachment even if there's absolutely no grounds for it. Way really get behind American principles, guys.

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1:45 pm, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

AlanD2. You're getting pretty desparate. Hope I didn't strike a nerve. You assume that because I criticize Obama, that I'm happy with Bush. My views are far from extreme (in fact I'd be considered a moderate by today's standard) and I don't watch cable news. Independent thought is a valuable commodity these days. That's something I'd challenge you do to every once in a while, instead of making false assumptions about me, or getting upset that I don't fit the profile of the person you think you're having an argument/discussion with.

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11:33 am, Nov 17, 2009
diamondgirl

Obama will never be elected to a second term, no way no how, you are dreaming and hoping I am sure. But the way he is trying to change this country is not the change anyone with a brain can believe in.

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9:53 am, Nov 14, 2009
cbeenthere

correction dg: I believe you mean any without a brain can believe in.

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11:33 am, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Then why are you planning to run Sarah Palin in 2012, diamondgirl?

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12:44 pm, Nov 14, 2009
cvillekid

Tim Pawlenty, right, dg? Hahahahahaha! Good luck with that tool.

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3:02 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

You may not be impressed, Square, but I am. In the face of 100% Republican opposition, Obama has already had these successes:

-- Legislation Signed --
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (Stimulus Bill)
Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act
Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act (SCHIP)
Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act
Helping Families Save Their Homes Act
Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure (CARD) Act
Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act
Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act

-- Executive Orders --
Reversed Bush Administration policies on stem cell research
Ordered the closure of the prison at Guantanamo Bay

And with health care reform virtually certain to pass, he will almost certainly be remembered by history as one of our great presidents.

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12:42 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Georealist

Every one of those "accomplshments" are minor or illusory..he hasn't closed Guantanamo Bay! What he has spearheaded are Govt Giveaways Galore..a cash for clunkers prgram that costs $31,000 to actually fund each vehicle sold..a first time himebuyers giveaway for people who missed the last 20 years..an Afghanistan policy that NO ONE..not even Obama..knows...and best of all urging a quick passage last August of a health reform bill he didn't know the contents of! Stellar!
As for this China nonsense..he recently invoked a tariff clause against China that caused great alarm in the East..and his Treasury Secretary Tim Giveaway Geithner was literally (watch the video!) laughed out of an auditorium filled with Chinese finance students. We ALREADY have excellent relations with the Chinese..we print T bills and bonds and they buy them! In return..we've sold our industrial capacity down the river so Wal Mart could offer cheap garbage made by Chinese earning slave wages!
Unless someone considers Polk or Carter one of our "great" Presidents I'm not sure Obama really slides into the upper echelons.

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1:00 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Johnnyappleseed

Alan a dale or d2 , whatever your smoking, it must be good, because it certainly is making you delusional.

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2:45 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Georealist & Johnnyappleseed: It's too bad that reality has a liberal bias, isn't it?

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2:54 pm, Nov 14, 2009
laughorcryagain

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. 4
This much we pledge-and more

Unless you own a lot of U.S. T-Bills, in that case go ahead and beat and torture people and deny them freedom

oh and unless you have the ability to disrupt us in afghanistan, in that case go ahead and jail the oppostion, and make an A-bomb

oh, and unless you actually mean to fight us in your effort to set up an islamic regime which executes women for learning to read in that case well go ahead,we don't support actually fighting for anything

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9:14 am, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Then why aren't you fighting to send 2.8 million American soldiers over to Afghanistan, laughorcryagain? Counter-insurgency experts say we need one soldier for every ten civilians to ensure victory.

Of course, this would mean reinstating the draft and doubling our taxes, but these are small sacrifices to make if you want victory. Right?

And I hope you would volunteer for the fight.

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12:49 pm, Nov 14, 2009
dblj51

This prez has done more good in less than i yr than the idiot did in 8 yrs im very proud to be an american again,im 59yrs old and i hope i never live thru the likes of the bushwacker again he was an embarasment to this country.

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9:26 am, Nov 14, 2009
hfb1053

dblj51 - I agree with you. "Some" of these posters are just idiots and will say anything but I'd like to see them handle the load President Obama has had to deal with from the dirty hands of the Bush administration.

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9:47 am, Nov 14, 2009
diamondgirl

Obama is giving out money and things to people, how is that good, he has no good plan to promote independence or self reliance. This country needs to get back to basics, work for a living and earn your own way, instead of waiting for the tax payers to pay for it.
You liberals are the idiots, get a friggen job,stop waiting for hand outs you trolls. Forget about Bush, he is gone and now we have a new nut in town, doing more to hurt this country, two wrongs dont make a right.

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9:59 am, Nov 14, 2009
jaydeekay

I wonder how quickly Germany forgot Hitler? I mean it's not as if his policies determined the policies of his successors. Like any wars he started... or any economic moves he made...

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10:23 am, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

diamondgirl: Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 - all Republicans - ran up $9 trillion in national debt.

Is this the conservative way to independence and self reliance?

Or are you going to throw them under the bus and call them RINOs?

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12:51 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Honchos

You guys clearly haven't heard- Republican scientists recently discovered that history actually began on 1-20-09, therefore all of our problems are Obama's fault and George W. Bush's presidency is a false memory planted by Satan (or possibly Obama) to deceive.

http://www.credoaction.com/comics/2009/11/when_history_began.html

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1:51 pm, Nov 14, 2009
cvillekid

If nothing else, dg is a fountain of cliches and 'mom'isms: "get back to basics", "earn your own way", "two wrongs don't make a right". Of course, dg does spice up her trite and lame "analysis" with insults: "idiots!", "trolls!" and that precious line "get a friggen (sic) job!", not that mom would have ever said that.

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3:11 pm, Nov 14, 2009
makeclear

Really?
Look at the give a way to the rich that took place under the last administration. If you are rich then it is ok to get dole?. But if the poor and the average man get his/her un-employment check extened, or if their health insurance premium gets supplemented after lay-offs it is a problem for you?.
Take the time to learn how the stimulus money is being spent. It is going to the average man. Not to the top 5% of the population, who are wealthy. This is a wecome change from the past where only "trickle down" mattered.
People are looking for jobs they just can't find any. I am talking about professionals, engineers, accountants etc.
If it were not for the stimulus package many firemen, policemen, teachers, and state and local government workers would be layed off.
Did you know that the health insurance premium for a healthy family of 3 not supported by a company plan is approximately $1000 per month?
Did you know that the stimulus package picks up $650/ month of that cost for 18 months, providing one qualifies?

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9:44 pm, Nov 14, 2009
SIMIECOCOA

db, More good for whom? The kind of society you loons want can not and wiil not stand! History shows that the kind of society you wish for was destroyed by the hand of Allmighty God. Dont look back Barack or you will become a pillar of salt...

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10:32 am, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

Proud to be an American again? Sounds like you're really proud to be a political partisan, whose pride for America shifts in sync with the political winds.

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10:34 am, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

It was pretty hard to be proud of America during the Bush administration, devilsadvocate.

Two unnecessary, unwinnable wars (one started by Bush lies), a $5 trillion addition to our national debt, torture, illegal spying on all Americans, the Bush Great Recession, and lots more.

But I'm sure conservatives like you were tickled pink.

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12:54 pm, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

What it means to be an American does not change from president to president. It's based largely on yourself. Don't let your pride in America be dictated by whether or not a certain person holds a certain office. I'm simply saying that anyone who says they're proud to be an American again bc Bush is gone, or conversely, that they're not proud to be an American because Obama is now President, is confusing their national "pride" with pride for their political views and for partisanship. Americans always have had reason to take pride in their country for over 230 years.

I was not happy about Iraq, as many were. I got laughed at plenty of times when I suggested that we were taking our eye off the ball (bin Laden) by going into Iraq, and that it was not the right thing for us to do. I'm not happy about deficit spending, our national debt, and our trade deficit. Bush was anything but conservative on these matters. This criticism he surely deserves. But give the same due criticism to the next guy who is doing many of the same things such as piling even more onto the national debt, rendition (we won't torture, but have no problems letting other nations do our dirty work), extending the "Patriot Act", and making efforts to avoid short term economic pain which we'll eventually feel a few years later (attempting to prop up the housing market/bubble).

And lastly, we've been through this before.....don't be so quick to slap a label on someone you do not know.

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3:44 am, Nov 15, 2009
angels81



What this President is doing is turning down the heat. and opening doors that have been closed to us for years. Last time I looked we were part of the world community and need doors open to fair trade with other nations. China is a huge booming economy, and it would be good for this country to be a part of that economy.

This could mean jobs for Americans and a boom for American companies. Working with China instead of making them the bad guy, and trying to strike fair trade policies with them is a win win solution. Trying to bully China, like Bush did for eight years hasn't worked out to well for us.

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10:12 am, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

We're already a part of that. We send our dollars to China, in exchange for cheap goods. We get to buy goods at a discount but pay for it with fewer jobs in America. Both apparently see this as a fair trade-off. To complete the cycle, China loans trillions of dollars back to America, which we'll have to pay back over time, and doing this allows China to keep their currency value pressed down so that their goods are the cheapest in cost. Much of our government spending is financed by China and other generous nations, but they will want that money back someday. Hopefully we'll be able to pay it. We already have outstanding future entitlement liabilities (Social Security, Medicare, etc.) of over $50 trillion. This scheme cannot go on forever.

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10:53 am, Nov 14, 2009
isabella

The last time China was the bad guy was before Nixon won the presidency. What do you think China would do without Americans to purchase their junk products?

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10:39 pm, Nov 15, 2009
marshallr4

Speak softly and carry a big stick

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10:25 am, Nov 14, 2009
squareyellowpaper

The philosophy of Neanderthals. You may attribute this comment to TR, but only in context of the Monroe Doctrine.

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12:02 pm, Nov 14, 2009
isabella

It worked until BO won office. You might soon wish it was still working.

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10:40 pm, Nov 15, 2009
barrett

Sounds like he is being careful not to offend our financial masters. In the meantime, China's got us right where they want us; subordinate; too dependent on their purchases of our debt to have any leverage over what they do in the world.

Really, it's pitiful. Obama didn't create this sad state of affairs, but he's not doing anything to improve it, either. If he was a bold economic leader he'd tell the Chinese that he will push for tariffs on all imports to America, before this nation defaults on our outstanding debt, after which the rules of trade will be rewritten to attain a sustainable equilibrium. He'd piss off everyone but working folks in the U.S. - and that would be a good thing, for him politically and for the U.S. economy.

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10:26 am, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

Sums it up very well. I couldn't have said it better.

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10:54 am, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

barrett: The Chinese have much more leverage on us than we do on them. They could easily dump their U.S. securities, which might devalue our dollar by as much as 50%.

Of course they would lose a lot of money doing this, but if we piss them off enough...

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12:58 pm, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

Right. And it seems that due to our trade deficit, that the dollar will fall. It just depends on our debtholders like China to determine how fast that happens. Seems that the Chinese may one day be in the position, or come to the realization that writing off what we already owe them would be better than continuing to loan us trillions of dollars in years to come with the prospect of not getting that back.

You're right, if we piss them off enough it could happen. But even more so than that, they may choose to stop buying treasuries for the sole reason that they anticipate it not being paid back to them. They may lose a lot in the process, but what's worse for them, losing 1 trillion today, or losing at least 10 trillion in the future that we say they must keep buying. The Chinese, with their habit of putting their money into savings, and being able to produce cheap goods, are perfectly capable of buying their own goods and not relying on us to do so. Makes me nervous for the US.

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3:01 am, Nov 15, 2009
AlanD2

I agree, devilsadvocate.

(Don't die of shock!)

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2:28 pm, Nov 15, 2009
devilsadvocate

Not shocked at all, Alan. We've agreed and disagreed on many issues here at TDB. At least both of us, unlike so many others who post here, can have an intelligent conversation about relevant issues.

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10:08 pm, Nov 15, 2009
Johnnyappleseed

You mean he might see the forest in spite of all the trees?...noval concept

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2:50 pm, Nov 14, 2009
WalidMaaytah

Obama's ideals are as noble and benevolent as they come. His only problem is that he is too nice, too careful, too politically correct. And he backtracked on issues, like with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and the settlements issue, when he shouldn't have, especially that his credibility was on the line. America needs Obama's ideals with LBJ's strength and tenacity. He needs to take the bull by the horns and kick some Republican butt - oh, and to spit in the face of phony, pseudo-Democrats like the Benedict Arnold of the Democrats: Lieberman, who turns my stomach with his treachery and disloyalty. That guy is pure human trash.

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10:26 am, Nov 14, 2009
jaydeekay

I don't like Lieberman because of his political positioning... not because he is a 'traitor,' as some seem to think.

I am all for politicians having the guts to change their minds... I just don't like the way his changed.

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10:48 am, Nov 14, 2009
Johnnyappleseed

One of the only real Senator's left on that side of the aisle.

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2:53 pm, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

I take issue with the Lieberman comments. You can hate him as much as you like, that's your right. But it is false to attribute any of his actions today as disloyal to the Democrats. They booted him from the party, after which he owes no loyalty to them, as you incorrectly assume. What he did before that is a different story, but what he does today is nothing close to disloyal. It would be if he still had a "D" next to his name.

And to demand for Israeli-Palestinian talks, the precondition of freezing Israeli settlements, was was not something the Israelis took seriously, and for good reason. As Netanyahu said, the Israelis and Palestinians have been talking for many years, and without preconditions. So the notion that preconditions would suddenly be set on the Israelis alone, to participate in talks they already take part in, was a naive one. While a noble goal for Obama to pursue, it was an error in calculation.

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11:09 am, Nov 14, 2009
LostPatriot

Take away the USA aid given to Israel including the money, nukes, all WMD, and give them protection from NATO and the UN. Force them to give back the land they have stolen. This will force them into making peace. Then redistribute the money flow from the USA to Israel to all the people in the Middle East.

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11:34 am, Nov 14, 2009
Demsdisorder

LP muslim much?

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12:06 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

devilsadvocate: Lieberman was booted from the party in exactly the same way that Republican Dierdre Scozzafava was booted from the party in the heavily Republican 23rd congressional district in New York.

And now you guys are now trying to do exactly the same thing to other moderate Republicans, including Florida Governor Charlie Crist.

So you are saying that people like Crist no longer owe any loyalty to the Republicans Party?

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1:04 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Johnnyappleseed

His calculation was correct 2 2 is 5, no uh! er a 3, well anyway its something.

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2:55 pm, Nov 14, 2009
devilsadvocate

Alan, Keep me out of the "you guys", because I'm not a loyalist to any party. And I guess you're right about the comparison btwn Lieberman and Scozzafova. I don't konw much about her, other than that unlike Lieberman she was not elected. Lieberman was, and after a long carrer as a D Senator. Don't know much about the Florida thing either. It's hard enough to follow local politics where I come from, let alone in another state.

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2:50 am, Nov 15, 2009
Demsdisorder

he is just trying to acquire more slaves. liberals love being slave owners

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12:05 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Demsdisorder: Ancient history. All the Dixiecrat slave owners switched to the Republican Party in 1964.

And have lived there happily ever since.

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1:06 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Johnnyappleseed

Lyndon Johnson, now there's a role model of a president, almost as corrupt as Grant.

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2:52 pm, Nov 14, 2009
jaydeekay

You are SO right... but then again, what President wasn't/isn't?

Maybe Carter... and you see what kind of reputation that got him.

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3:03 pm, Nov 14, 2009
isabella

His real problem is that he knows nothing about foreign policy and is making it up as he goes. What should he do about Israel? Tell them to bomb Iran and take out Hezbollah and Hamas. Then talk to the Palestinians.

Do you hate Lieberman because he's Jewish? Just wondering. People who use terms like "human trash" are usually Nazis, or their SS helpers in WW2, Islamic fundamentalists.

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10:46 pm, Nov 15, 2009
TWBBug

Getting a little tired of being reminded of his lineage. As far as that goes, his words are hallow.

Can you believe we elected this guy because he knew how to give a good speech? Hell, we should have elected his speech writer.

I've lost it for him and the crowd who brung him. As for Michelle, for her to wear that blue to the Tomb of the Unknown the other day just tells me she might be an intellect but she sure is short on common sense and what is appropriate. As First Lady, she represents all of us and I would have never done that or a lot of what she does. She does not speak for me.

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10:31 am, Nov 14, 2009
jaydeekay

Who does?

Should anyone?

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10:44 am, Nov 14, 2009
angels81



As a Vietnam combat vet, I had no problem with the dress she wore. I think from someone like you, it wouldn't have made any difference what she had worn. You've made it pretty clear that you didn't vote for the President, so it really doesn't matter what you think.

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10:44 am, Nov 14, 2009
Demsdisorder

she wins the award for the worlds biggest ass. literally

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12:08 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Sorry, Demsdisorder. She doesn't have what it takes to compete against you for that honor.

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1:14 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

TWBBug: I'm glad you recognize how "hallow" our Messiah's words are! :-)

More seriously, I suspect he writes most of his own speeches, at least the major ones.

And he certainly wrote his own books - unlike, say, Sarah Palin.

Say what you want, TWBBug, but you don't speak for me or the majority of Americans.

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1:14 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Demsdisorder

yes he dose speak for most. just not you

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1:39 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Oh really, Demsdisorder? Check out this NBC News/Wall Street Journal Survey [10/25/09]

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/wsjnbc-10272009.pdf

43% Democrat or lean Democrat
17% Independent
31% Republican or lean Republican

Note how Republicans (conservatives) are in the minority these days. Too bad...

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2:51 pm, Nov 14, 2009
whipmawhopma

I suspect the multiculturalisms mean nothing in China and Japan. Like Americans, the Chinese and Japanese are full of themselves. They are far more interested in their own security and their own power, and the Japanese are still sorting out what it means to live in a world where the relative power and presence of China and America is changing.

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11:12 am, Nov 14, 2009
BlueMoose

While it is true that Japan is very much a unitary culture the same is not true of China. That country has many different ethnic groups.

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11:43 am, Nov 14, 2009
whipmawhopma

BlueMoose - You're correct, but the flavor of the day is Han, everyday. And since that's what keeps China together, other than the Red Army, it will be Han for a long, long time.

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5:01 pm, Nov 14, 2009
BlueMoose

The right wing whackos are our in force today. They just can't stand having a president who is smarter than they are.

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11:42 am, Nov 14, 2009
Demsdisorder

Ya that's it..

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12:09 pm, Nov 14, 2009
SFGiants

BlueMoose: I wouldn't worry about these wingnuts posting here today. Some of them are obviously Middle School students who are in serious need of remedial English classes.

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12:58 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

I have often thought that, SFGiants.

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1:15 pm, Nov 14, 2009
whipmawhopma

I'd love to see a demographic study.

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5:02 pm, Nov 14, 2009
cvillekid

It was worse yesterday, BlueMoose. In any case, it's mostly just Demsdisorder, Maladapted and Diamondgirl, with their mindless, knee-jerk ugliness. No one's going to form a brain trust with those three. They're Falange groupies...useful idiots for the real hard-right. They'd find themselves up against the wall too if the 1 per centers ever had their way.

By the way, what ever happened to that genuine whack job, Reardongalt? He was the real deal, hard-right version. Ol' Reardon had that special hunger for violence and martydom that marks a true Falangist. I don't sense that in Dems, Mal and Diamond.

And as long as I'm waxing nostalgic, where are my favorite rage-aholics: rhonda, grannyrob and glenda? Now there's a real brain trust, and when they get going, BlueMoose, what you've seen today is child's play.

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3:33 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Desertpenguin

cvillekid--

Let me help you out with a partial list of haters that love to come and dump:

Plantagenet drevilo Allguns DD3075
Johnnyappleseed (not to be confused with Johnnyapplecd)
neverlate winston1 Carole65 timmyboy
misterdon democracyforall pricklypear
Soonchurcher maryfrost2 Joanne38
rtchap2 egw7777 Jinglebob johnwr3
ConstitutionalRights clearthinker nightdragon83
nightdragon09 Grimmace Olbermannisstupid
SandraZ8122 Alaric Baddchild theoPitt
MaeQueen jus1drun bbrown13 GPatton
ThinkAgain KemCho sonofloud winebabe917
mrwonderful1942 penscott AngryJ chiefpayne
ChanRobt bcaldwell msamericanpatriot
VagrantPhilosopher dabeall jpelhamtn Housebird
Spartann leftwingsuckers fenngibbon larry278
NewyorkerR LeftCoastRightBrain RomeoHotel
osea65 cesspool gameon laughorcryagain
Aslonleon

*whew*

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3:55 pm, Nov 14, 2009
cvillekid

Jinglebob! I forgot about Jinglebob! And SandraZ8122! There's a girl who knows how to hate and loves doing it. And poor, poor dabeall! Oh man, NewYorkerR, he flamed out in one weekend!

I'd only disagree with your inclusion of pricklypear. prickly may be seriously deluded, but she's not a hater.

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4:36 pm, Nov 14, 2009
cvillekid

Oh, and frosty. frosty's not really a hater either. She's just terminally stupid and really, really old.

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4:46 pm, Nov 14, 2009
diamondgirl

cv, bla bla bla, thats all i hear when you write anything...LOL

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4:59 am, Nov 15, 2009
LostPatriot

Obama said "we come in peace" to the Chinese communist people because other countries no longer view the USA and its partner in crime, Israel, as coming any other way but to attack and kill. Certainly China, our past sworn communist enemy, must be very wary of the very poorly managed USA economy and its psychopathic warrior mentality. Would you trust a psychopathic killer in your house? Would you want to deal with someone who had no clue how to manage a country and had a record of serious human rights violations that stretched over the last 60 years making Stalin and Hitler look like nice people? Obama needs to do much more before other countries will ever have any trust in the USA or its dollar either one.

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11:44 am, Nov 14, 2009
squareyellowpaper

How stupid does he think the rest of the world is?

He may come with an extended hand and a polite bow, but 3/4 of Americans are xenophobic. There is little cultural awareness among Americans of Islam, Buddhism, and Asian countries. How can Americans compete with other people in the world when we are so ignorant?

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11:58 am, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Well, at least he's trying, squareyellowpaper. Unlike George W. Bush.

And I would suggest that only 1/4 of Americans are xenophobic. At least half of us just don't care, which is not the same thing.

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1:18 pm, Nov 14, 2009
isabella

How aware are Islamic countries of our culture? Ever tried reading the Bible in Saudi Arabia? Or drinking wine? Or sitting beside a woman driving a car? Bend over and take your sixty lashes. Don't worry about adultery. Only the female will be beaten. She might be stoned to death, but you'll be ok.

If you can't travel, do some reading and find out that people in all other countries envy you because you are American. You are ignorant. Most of your countrymen are not.

The reason we can't compete with some countries like China and India is we expect our workers to earn a living wage. You are a blowhard.

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10:58 pm, Nov 15, 2009
Trilly

I don't know if President Obama is doing the right thing by handing out the olive branch. China is fast becoming an economic super power. We outpaced them during the industrial revolution and the high tech revolution. They pushed back by using their manipulated currency to produced goods and services through cheap labor to keep up with the world economies. They are trying to outpace us on green energy with an end result of lower energy cost which will make them a leading competitor for manufacturing jobs for decades to come.
I am left to wonder if President Obama's trip to the Far East is symbolic,constructive or both. What is in this trip for us!? I will save the real criticism and/or Kudos after the trip.

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12:53 pm, Nov 14, 2009
chengdulaoshi

Speaking as an American living and teaching in China, I am dismayed to see some of the hateful attitudes expressed on this Board toward the Chinese people and their government.

I am hopeful that these attitudes are not representative of the views of the majority of Americans toward the Chinese. Such views display a remarkable lack of insight into the nature of the Chinese character and the viewpoint of the average Chinese citizen toward the outside world.

Each week, I am honored to work with hundreds of young Chinese students who are struggling to gain a mastery of our difficult language. These students begin their academic day at 7:00 in the morning, and they stay in their classrooms until 9:00 at night. Their classrooms have no heat in the winter and no air conditioning in the summer, nor do they offer any of the other creature comforts that American college students take for granted.

These students devote a large portion of their lives to the effort of mastering English, while further enhancing their mastery of one of the most difficult and exotic languages on the planet.

The Chinese youth that I know are as a rule respectful, kind, sweet, idealistic and courageous. My students express a deep love for America that sadly often surpasses the affection expressed by many of America's own citzens. Most consider America to be a shining beacon of courage, independance, creativity and social virtue. Indeed, many of my students are blindly in love with America - with what they perceive as America's free and open lifestyle, as reflected in its movies and music, both of which they devour with an appetite that is rapacious and insatiable.

Like any human being, the Chinese citizen no doubt harbors ambivalence towards some features of the form of government under which he has been born. However, the Chinese are fiercely loyal to their nation, just as any good American is fiercely loyal towards the nation that nurtures and supports him.

It is a serious error of judgment to consider Chinese citizens naive because they do not engage in endless public displays of criticism, name calling or ridicule of their government or its leaders. The average Chinese citizen considers it the height of arrogance and conceit to believe that he knows better than his government what is best for China.

For example, a phrase such as "never underestimate the stupidity of the American people," which I see posted above by two separate posters, would virtually *never* issue from the mouth of a Chinese citizen, unless he were seriously disturbed.

Modesty and humility are cornerstone principles of Chinese culture. Most Chinese would rather be thought foolish or unskilled than arrogant and proud - which of course is diametrically opposed to the Donald Trump/Rush Limbaugh/American Idol "values" which our current culture has embraced.

This is not to say that either culture is good or bad, just different. I think it is a mistake not to walk a mile in another culture's shoes before dismissing the whole culture as backward or misguided.

China has a culture that goes back 5,000 years. China's culture is founded on a deep, reverential respect for family, hometown and nation - in precisely that order. The vast majority of the students that I teach are struggling to obtain an education today, so that they will be able to live out the remainder of their lives caring for their elderly parents - a real and tangible expression of devotion and loyalty to family that goes far beyond the lip service to "family values" that some in America find politically expedient to espouse.

Many Americans fear China because of its recent economic successes. This fear, however, is founded on a sad lack of understanding of the nature of the Chinese soul and the meaning of China's rise to economic power. Thirty odd years ago, China's leaders announced to the Chinese people that it "was glorious to be rich." This was precisely the message that her citizens were waiting for. It was a message that gave China's industrious and indefatigable working class incentive to better themselves and their families. As a result, China has raised the standard of living of its enormous population more, in less time, than any nation in the history of mankind.

I am not so naive as to believe that China does not have a long way to go in fulfilling its potential as a nation. The nation's shortcomings in many areas have been analyzed repeatedly and exhaustively by far more insightful and articulate minds than my own - and many of these criticisms certainly have validity. But to treat China with a cold shoulder because it has yet to achieve its full potential is a serious mistake in my book.

My mama always told me you can get a lot more from folks with honey than with vinegar. Focus on China's shortcomings and fail to appreciate her virtues and you will only alienate her and force her to dig in her heals and resist your message.

The Chinese do not wish to see America fail, they only wish to see their country prosper. Not only does China not wish America ill-fortune, the precise opposite is true. China's future depends in large part on the prosperity of America.

Treat China as a political friend and economic ally, and great things can happen for both nations. Treat China as an enemy and adversary, and I fear that both nations will end up the poorer.

I wish President Obama the very best on his journey to the Middle Kingdom. I wish that he could find some time to come to my university and talk to the kids here. What he would discover are young and growing minds that are respectful, open and energetic - and crazy about America!

He would also discover some of the best damn basketball players that ever nailed a layup this side of the Atlantic.

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12:57 pm, Nov 14, 2009
AlanD2

Thank you for your insight, chengdulaoshi. But isn't it "this side of the Pacific"?

I hope all readers here will take your words to heart.

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1:21 pm, Nov 14, 2009
chengdulaoshi

Thank you for your kind words, Alan.

You're absolutely right . "This side of the Pacific" is not only geographically accurate, it even scans better.

Because I hail from D.C., I first wrote "this side of the Potomac" and backspaced it out. Must be homesickness that makes my mind turn West rather than East.

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2:06 pm, Nov 14, 2009
whipmawhopma

chengdulaoshi - Nice speech but most of the comments here have nothing to do with China. It's mostly a continuation of the left wing vs right wing battle that seems to be going on with just about every topic on TDB.

Any comments actually about hating China would most likely the work of the ignorant, people who remember the bad old days when he who must remain unnamed was screwing up the country who must remain unnamed, or our house brand reaction trolls - who want to fight for its own sake.

Good luck with your work.

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5:20 pm, Nov 14, 2009
woodstark2

Try thinking American,,,your an American in china fulfilling your own selfish dreams and aspirations teaching our language to a country that has one of the worst human rights records in the world..I think your skills would be better utilized if you were teaching American students patience and tolerance for other countries...In case you forgot the united states is only 232 years old.....China's culture goes back 5000 years,that's why we need every able bodied American to help teach and nurture our own children so that we make it to 300 years old.......China's weapons are in every major conflict in the world today......along with the cheap and inferior goods they manufacture ,that bombard every store in America.....OUR trade agreement with china has been a one sided agreement for years that has benefited them to the extent of becoming a major global player in the market today.....we helped them by cutting our own throats for a little diplomacy...not to mention also the countless greedy capitalist companies who sold out America for huge profits and cheap labour.........SO please come home ....countless Americans sacrificed there lives so that you have that freedom to travel to china...the same freedom that Chinese people want but can't have because of there government...

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10:09 pm, Nov 14, 2009
chengdulaoshi

I am sorry that you think my work here is selfish. I made the decision to come to China after the devastating earthquake that struck China in the spring of last year. As you may recall, on May 12, 2008, 70,000 Chinese (including thousands of children) lost their lives in this earthquake, and millions were made homeless overnight. Because many foreign teachers left the country after the earthquake, the need for foreign teachers here was very great, hence my decision to come.

The epicenter of this massive earthquake, which was felt as far away as Beijing, was approximately 50 miles from my apartment building here in Chengdu. The walls of my apartment still show stress fractures from where the building swayed back and forth during the tremblor, and we still experience the occasional aftershock to remind us of the day the earth went mad.

Many of my students lost brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles during the quake. I must be very careful when introducing topics regarding family members in class, because it is impossible to predict whether a casual question such as "what does your brother do?" will trigger agonizing memories in the mind of a student of a devastating personal loss.

Although I agree that the need for teachers in America is great (exacerbated, I suspect, by the low professional and financial esteem with which they are regarded), I doubt that the need for my particular skill set is in such high demand among the general population (recent immigrant populations excluded, naturally).

I am a teacher of English as a foreign language. As such, the skills that I teach in my classes are far too elementary for most native speakers of English, even first graders. As Chomsky and other linguists have observed, linguistic competence in one's native language is a skill that just unfolds naturally, given normal exposure to the child's language community, and reaches full fruition as early as age 7. If you don't believe me, just take a trip to your nearby mall and sit in the food court for an hour and watch the boys and girls blissfully gabbing away. Certainly, America has many problems, but linguistic fluency in its youth population is not one of them.

Granted, the mastery and refinement of language skills does take a lifetime, but there is serious controversy over the extent to which any teacher can really take credit for the successful end result in this process. Much of an individual language speaker's competency is determined by factors beyond a teacher's control, such as motivation, sub-cultural or familial attitudes toward education, and variations in individual genetic endowment.

Although I realize I may be deluded, I believe that my work here in China benefits America and the world, as well as my students, although granted in a very small and perhaps *sigh* meaningless way.

It seems to me that wars and international conflicts, such as those playing out in Iraq and Afghanistan today, arise when cultural communities become mired in insular belief systems that will permit no possibility of alternative lifestyles or methods of viewing the world. By sharing my love for our great American experiment in democracy and freedom, I believe I am helping to shape a new generation of young people in China who admire and respect America for its ideals, rather than fear it for what they may have been led to consider its interventionist or imperialistic intentions. I hope that this will have a ripple effect over time, and one day I will wake up in a world in which mutual understanding and respect is a norm, rather than an anomaly.

As far as trade with China goes, I am just a teacher. I am not an economist or a political scientist. However, it seems to me that much of the problem comes from the American consumer himself. Nobody is forcing America to buy China's goods. China is acting from its own rational self-interest when it sets its currency, and Americans are acting from what they perceive to be their own rational self-interest when they make decisions to purchase goods manufactured in China. If the goods are inferior, as you say, then why in Heaven's name purchase them? For fifty years America has been in a consumer feeding-frenzy, filling their shopping carts to the brim with consumer products that they don't need and I suspect don't even want. They just buy for the sake of buying. Now America has spawned a huge new cottage industry of storage facilities that exist for the sole purpose of storing all the junk that Americans have bought and no longer even want.

As far as human rights goes, every nation has its skeletons that they wish the world would ignore. I adore America, but I grieve with the knowledge that the "land of the free" has become home to the largest prison population in the world. The day America realizes that it is far cheaper and more socially proactive to send its citizens to college rather than prison is the day that America will move closer to realizing human rights within its own shores. The day America's leaders realize that torture and waterboarding is not a way to win converts to their point of view is the day that the world will once again come to view America as a force for peace, not conflict, in the world.

Once some of these problems have been addressed, I think we will be in a better position to lecture other countries on their human rights records. And who knows, maybe they will even listen.

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3:34 am, Nov 15, 2009
AlanD2

chengdulaoshi: Your teaching in China has a much bigger impact on Chinese opinions of Americans than any trollish comments by people like woodstark2.

Ignore woodstark2 and keep up your good work. It sounds like you are having a very positive influence on your students.

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2:38 pm, Nov 15, 2009
queensplate

obama dusts off the knee pads

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1:37 pm, Nov 14, 2009
Demsdisorder

now that's why he was elected.

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1:41 pm, Nov 14, 2009
MaeQueen

As usual, whenever the President goes outside of his own shores, he must remind EVERYONE that the Presidency is ALL ABOUT HIM. Gee, so while he plays Citizen of the world, our American citizens are starving in unemployment lines.

Dump trade with China and begin a "Buy American" campaign right here - that will solve the unemployment problem - and we don't even need an Employment Summit for that.

And while we're at it, can we fine American companies that outsource jobs and reward American businesses that say "no" to outsourcing?

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2:35 pm, Nov 14, 2009
angels81



Buy American? What the hell does America make anymore? We make nothing. I'll bet every piece of electronics you own was made outside of America. I'll bet your washer and dryer wasn't made here. If you own an American car, you're nuts. We don't make anything, so you got nothing when it comes to your fine rant.

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6:37 pm, Nov 14, 2009
bonkus

hahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....oh, tears....tears of ultimate lulz at your feeble ...feeble...feeble grasp of this situation...leave.

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7:02 pm, Nov 14, 2009
squareyellowpaper

We need China. China does not need us.

What do China, India, and Brazil have in common that America lacks? There is a sense of national identity, pride, and involvement in these countries. Americans have become more independent. We have deserted our desire to embrace a national view of progress and and to trust in our elected leaders to deliver. We no longer work as a unified people with patriotic pride and national goals. From Wall St. to Main St. the unified, national spirit of Americans has been replaced with greed and selfish individualism. The spirit of America is no longer a team sport. Instead, it has become one of individual competitiveness nurtured by suspicion, hate, and fear of all governmental proposals.

As a result, America is becoming an aged, has-been of a country whose citizens must look to the past to bask in shadows of our once greatness.

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7:21 am, Nov 15, 2009
cibikay

As usual.,Obama is too full of himself to see what is before him.His background is not typical.He is too self-referential to be realistic.The world is far more complex and complicated than what he tells us it is.

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7:50 am, Nov 15, 2009
woodstark2

To Chengdulaoshi

I will thank you, and commend you for your efforts. I too will apologize to you if you think my words were to harsh. I will say ,that to be a teacher in general is a labour of love, know matter where you are teaching. As a father living in New York City trying to raise 2 daughters,I agree with you 110 percent that teachers are not held in a high level of regard. It is troubling to me when highly motivated and caring teachers are not compensated for there efforts...IT is disgraceful that one of the greatness nations in the world has forgotten, how we became such a driving force in the world today.
I have family members who are teachers in various subjects so I do understand the frustrations that you confront..
When I step out side my door I see many flags that fly ,and bask under the umbrella of freedom that we provide. Our country has progressed and shifted its views at an alarming rate since I was a child. As an American I do my part, by voting and trying to raise my daughters the best way I can. who Knows where all of the freedoms that we have will take us. Only time will tell.. I am not an economist either, but I can tell you that it is very difficult to buy American...Good luck in your journeys....

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12:28 pm, Nov 15, 2009
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