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Old White Men Get Canned First
It's not a good time to be over 55, white, and male. USA Today reports that the "last in, first out" policy followed during previous recessions has been turned on its head. Jobless rates for white men older than 55 were at 6.5 percent in the second quarter this year, the highest they've been since the Great Depression. The decline of unions is playing a part in the erosion of this segment of the work force. Says USA Today, "The recession has hit older men hard because job loss has been concentrated in male-dominated fields, such as construction, manufacturing and finance."
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sparky13
"You don't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore."
nickatdabeach
I'm white, 50s, degreed. I was pumping gas in Ft Lauderdale one Wednesday 1030pm in 2003. Also pumping gas across from me was an executive in suit, tie relaxed, an obvious hard day behind him. Small talk ensued. I commented it must be a long day for him to still be in a suit, what did he do for a living. His reply: "I'm an attorney." What kind I ventured? He said, "Age discrimination. I represent white men in their 50s who've lost their job because they're white and 50 .. I've never been busier." True story.
jbo206
What an inflammatory false pretence of a headline "Old white men get canned first".
Reading the article, the examples are an Engineer, an Airline Pilot & Insulation Manufacturer.... All white male dominated jobs... gee, that would be like saying layoff's in nursing jobs predominantly effect Women and gay men... uh, ya think.
Show me jobs in industries that are not 90% male (airline pilots? this is the worst time in the US to be an airline pilot and they are significantly white and male) as examples and then I would agree there is bias.
As far as this Lawyer being in such good times, that probably has more to do with older white males having the means to sue.
whipmawhopma
No country for old white men. And as an old white man, I'm worried.
JDK-JDK
You should be, as all signs ARE pointing in that direction.
From a future old white man...
Bunx05
You guys will never have to worry like minorities.
From a future old black man...
JDK-JDK
@Bunx
At least you'll still look good when you're old.
Bunx05
LOL! That's hilarious. My wife says that all the time. But trust me father time ain't good to any of us.
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Wallysmom
What effin rock did you crawl out from under?
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
gak001
How about having a little dignity? Just because you married your sister doesn't mean you have to act like and ignorant redneck.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
hardrain
How does someone even respond to such crazy hatred?
When is the "right" going to stop being afraid of the imaginary? There's plenty of reality to be concerned about without frothing at the mouth about fantastical bogeymen.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
Ritarita
TDoff-
Now that
You've suceeded
In stirring up the pot-
Wipe the smirk off your face
And say something productive.
You're a lousy brother.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
JDK-JDK
@Rita
HAHA, Rita! She got you!
You thought she was a man but she's really a woman! He, I mean she pulled a fast one on you!
Don't you feel really dumb now?
Ritarita
TDoff-
I don't think
You put the right interpretation
On my comment
Or you wouldn't be
So pleased with yourself.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
JDK-JDK
Wow, TDoff... me thinks you need a stiff one.
Take that to mean whatever you need it to.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
Ritarita
JDK-
HAHA 'She' got you!
Don't you feel really dumb now?
JDK-JDK
@rita
Know I was being facetious... right?
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Wallysmom
This is a bating article. It has nothing to do with race or gender. Because older white males usually hold executive positions and stay in the job longer they are going to be picked off during a Recession. Middle management positions go first. Non essential services such as marketing are also first to go. This is not news. I am female and over 50 and we're still usually the first to go because the old 1940's attitude still prevails, that we should be home raisin' our kids and have a husband to support us. And if you are a white male over 55, chances are you will find a job -- female over 55, forgettaboutit.
theoPitt
So damn the information out there, just listen to Wallysmom! She knows its a big, baiting lie.
I think its real funny, too, that you say get rid of marketing. Yeah, thats what every company should do. Kill off marketing and hope people just come to your business out of the blue.
Obviously, you have absolutely NO CLUE about running a business. I'd love to see you opoen up shop, and see how you do with no marketing.
hardrain
Typically businesses 'farm out" advertising/marketing, and this traditional model is incredibly expensive. When a business has to choose between inventory and an expensive ad, well the answer is obvious. Does this mean small businesses can't do their own "guerilla advertising"? No, but I don't think "in house marketing" is what wallymom was referencing.
My perspective is that YOU don't have a clue about how to run a business, or when you are being baited.
JDK-JDK
As hardrain said... marketing IS essential to a business in a free-market society.
akcita
So, as we become more of a command economy, marketing is not needed, as the product differentiation is irrelevant.
Regardless, businesses make knee jerk decisions when they try to cut overhead to bolster profitability. Unfortunately, some companies either have crappy marketeers that are seen as expendable, or crappy strategic thinkers that do not value the strategic nature of marketing....
OK, so now back to the down trodden old white guys with no hot Internet skills....
libertyville
You are either sheltered or not exposed to large business settings. It is not executives who are being let go, they nay even be a smaller percentage. In my company and most others I have from, anyone over 50 is subject to be let go. Professionals, technicians, administrators, analysts, paperpushers, assembly line. If you are over 50 abd white, you have no protection in this political climate. The Walmart and Home Depot fallbacks are not available either in this economy.
Theogillette
Having been down this path I yawn and say "Oh Duh!"
IDubious
Perhaps we could get in on the "Cash for Clunkers" program.
whitebreadtoast
lol, clever!
Speagle
Good time to be a lesbian, though...
akcita
Hey, all us guys are lesbians....
Bagbabe53
Hi Wallysmom, I agree with you. I am also over 50 WF (56), attractive and youthful looking, hold an advanced degree, and freelanced part-time for four years because of troubled teen daughter (who is doing great now). Am former marketeer for companies doing business with the govt. In past four years, many of my contacts dried up due to retirements, etc. When I apply for a marketing support/research position (the type I worked at as a consultant) am told I am overqualified and will want to move on after a year! While I have no regrets about helping my daughter, the only work I can get right now is as a substitute teacher; am even applying for teacher aide jobs (which have loads of applicants in this recession). This would not be a big deal except that our 401(k)s took a big hit last fall in the stock market crash. I am pretty angry lately because this seems to be out of my control; am doing the best I can with therapy, hobbies, volunteering, etc. Can't wait for school to start again!
gulfvet91
Overqualified is such a crock! What they mean is too old or too expensive! Frankly, too expensive shouldn't even be a player because most jobs pay what they pay and that's it! I'd like to know how many aggressive, upwardly mobile twenty-somethings stick around in whatever job they land. I worked with a guy like that. He told me, two weeks after he got hired by the company we worked for, that he was shopping his resume` around for a better position. He was getting $115,000 per year salary where he was and he was looking to move up after only two weeks! By contrast, I was making $44,000 with 20 years experience that kid didn't have and I would happily have stayed had the CEO not sold the company out to another defense contractor and gotten a bunch of us laid off, not him of course. Since then I've been a pizza driver, security guard, census worker, tutor and now I'm a writer for a website that pays by the click. Don't try to tell me that white men over 50 aren't taking it in the neck right now! I'm one of the statistics!
JDK-JDK
One does not a statistic make.
akcita
JDK-JDK,
Did you READ the article we are commenting on? His one example is supportive of the statistics in the article. Try thinking next time.
JDK-JDK
@ak
Come on, man...
Pull you head outa your ass and use your brain. I made one sigular comment to one singular comment of his. And it is true...
grumpyone99
I was originally laid-off from my job as a senior middle-manager in the newspaper industry. 30 years in the business...who'd a thunk! Fortunately, I wound up doing accounting work for a growing retail business....unfortunately, they wound up going broke after 9-11. After "retiring" for a couple of years and spending all of my savings, I again tried to find work (a job) at the ripe old age of 67. Following several months of interviewing (mostly with people I would NEVER hire) I gave up in disgust and started my OWN business! I've never been happier! No employees (yet, if ever), work out of my house, work my own hours and am available to watch over my wife who has been having some issues with cancer. I should have done this YEARS age and told EMPLOYERS to fuck-off!
In defense of the corporations though...EVERYTHING is budgets! You do what you HAVE to do to make your budget, even when you have to let go of your friends.
onedirector
The reason older "white" men are targets for unemployment is that they usually make more money because they have certain seniority, so the bean-counters see greater savings by eliminating them from the payroll. That's it. End of story. It might be self-destructive--getting rid of the experience in a company--but it's reality. Women have it even worse, not because they're white, but because a younger, hipper, and let's face it, more attractive woman will be favored by younger middle-managers. It's a fact of life. Not pretty. Times have changed for minorities because they are protected, but for us older folks holding unsecured positions, times are tough. The discrimination laws protecting those over 40 are seldom enforced because the enforcers have no interest in protecting older white people. There are no headlines, no reward... no motivation. "Old White People of the World, Unite!" Sounds silly doesn't it. So much for 10,000 years of dominance.
I used to be too young for everything--now I'm too old. Sigh...
JDK-JDK
The old guard NEEDS to go.
The business world is so sick, so twisted that the only way to cure it is a wholesale overhaul.
Sad but true.
akcita
JDK-JDK
the new guard needs a clue....
Overhaul? what bullshit. Congress is the one that needs an overhaul. Corrupt bastards need to be part of the over 55 white guys on the street looking...
JDK-JDK
@ak
The business world is ONLY in it for profit. If they can make an extra buck, NO MATTER the cost, that buck will be made. If a company can fire a person for short-term gain, they will be fired. There is NO long-term vision anymore. It is all immediate.
Companies are firing people right now ONLY because they CAN (and that IS happening, ak), because they now have an excuse ("It's the economy! Sorry.").
The majority of these jobs lost are not coming back, ak. Sure... businesses will be fine and dandy... but those fired today are applying for help tomorrow and will never get back off this assistance.
Then the conservatives, the 'business' people, will start harping about there being so many people on assistance, that we need to stop giving away our money and need to lower taxes...
It's sick, ak. This country, especially for the past 30 years, has been governed with business in mind first, and second, and third... and then we'll think about the people making the money for these companies.
These business inheritors... those that had anything they wanted given to them... the best schools that Mommy and Daddy could pay for... sitting in their ivory tower, looking down on the little man and saying, 'I put food on YOUR table!'... these people need exterminated from these towers.
As is obvious, privilege has its privilege. Thing is, that is becoming a bit TOO obvious.
Can you feel it, ak? Can you feel the boiling... can you see the frothing at the mouth of the common man? Are you getting cut off in traffic more? Seeing a plethora of middle fingers in the air... more than usual? Hearing the HATE, the rhetoric of everday people against whoever they are against? Well, if you aren't, ak, perhaps you are one of those that needs to be knocked down. But perhaps not... perhaps your posterior is, at the moment, stuffed with your cranium and that is your excuse.
Makes sitting AND shitting hard, eh?
JDK-JDK
@ak
And those in Congress are interchangable with those in the boardroom. The same people walking in the same circles and using the same information when looking out for numero uno.
nickatdabeach
you're never unemployed long in commissioned sales -- sink or swim
Downriver
It's okay. Obama's going to send someone out to kill 'em anyway, they don't need no stinkin' jobs :>
JDK-JDK
His name isn't Ocheney.
judyjetson
I gotta laugh at that one! Unfortunately, I've been the victim of layoffs after 9/11 and I was unemployed for over 2 years. Really rough. I'm working now, thankfully, but my brother is now looking for work as a QA Analyst. He's 54, I'm 58, and it just doesn't get easier. Fortunately, my brother's wife has a good job, so their essentials are covered. Me, as a single mom with a teenager, that 2 years off has made life a struggle even now that I am employed again. I can't gripe because I have a job, but no raises, no bonus, and prices seem to be going through the roof. Retirement is but a dream for someone else. I'll be working until I drop.
Downriver
After over thirty years in the timber industry my company shut down last summer. There are simply zero timber jobs now and with social security eligibility fast approaching and the nearest town 60 miles away there is simply not much to do but work the garden, cut firewood, and read the Beast.
democracyforall
I have seen the recession hit older relatives. One got rehired. Another is struggling with his retail business and has no health care. One more spending mandate from the government and he'll be out of business and that means more relatives out of a job. This article ends on a positive note, but a lot of people are living on the edge.
Margot707
Off course older white men are getting laid off in higher numbers. There are more of them. They also have the highest salaries and will cost the company more in retirement benefits. If there were as many blacks or women in that category, they'd be getting laid off as well.
Fentro
Sad but all true - most especially, we need to can Wall Street and K Street. Shit, we need another Boston tea party to get things straightened out - we've let the crooks take control, and they won't leave without a fight. But the real issue lies within humanity - we all have our price. The sad news is that the social reboot is happening, and will get worse - much worse - before it gets better.
But instead of complaining, we all need to start looking for solutions. Since a coup d'etat is out of the question, and trying to change Washington from the inside would be frustratingly fruitless, what are our options? Consider this: the control of society by corporations - our current vector - presents several problems which can be solved with enlightened government regulation. Firstly, corporations allow people to rationalize decisions that serve greed above human consideration. This can be stopped by applying ethics to free will. Corporations allow people to abdicate their humanity and compassion, as if these are bad qualities. Until we decide to cherish principles which nurture, heal, rescue, save, share, and empower us all, we will become slaves to the uncaring zombie that seeks only to reward itself at the expense of the world at large.
nickatdabeach
coup d'etat? yea, there's a FEMA prison camp with your name on it.. just google it
ThinkAgain
The layoffs in the first quarter were done in panic mode. There was no determination of productivity. In prior contractions we decided who to layoff. In this one, the accounting people came and told us who we had to lay off. The productive people will be the first ones we hire back but it will likely be at lower salaries.
Bunx05
I agree with you TA. Panic-crazed businesses start dumping whoever they can. Most of those people are hired back within 10 to 18 months.
onedirector
Has anybody noticed that since Business School has be issuing MBAs that America has been making a lot of money and little else?
We have no manufacturing.
We sell each other insurance and manipulate money for a living. Deniability is the desired skill.
Subterfuge is a major virtue among executives.
It's all about the bottom line--today. Tomorrow? Who cares?
Nobody puts their name on their businesses any more. Investment thieves make bonuses instead of handcuffs.
Hard work and loyalty are practically non existent because they are not valued and aren't rewarded.
Hence, can you wonder why the elders are put out to pasture--with no pasture? Who will be next? You? Respect, hard work, fairness, and integrity have to return or these will be the good old days.
flyoverland
My high school is celebrating its 40th reunion next week. Someone contacted our classmates and made a video with all the pix from the yearbook with a caption of what they are doing today. You've never seen so many, "consultants", "semi-retired" and "retired" fifty-eight year old people in your life. One guy just said, "still looking for work". Affirmative action is part of the problem, but the bigger one is the loss of our manufacturing base. Looking back at those pix from 40 years ago will convince anyone that just being a white male does not put you in a position of power. 90% of those kids went on to work in the mills, the trades, refineries, etc. Those jobs are gone. I used to have to prod youngers managers to hire older workers. They come in thinking they want someone younger for some unknown reason. I always found older workers to be more loyal, willing to do whatever it took and much more stable. This is just another reason our county is going down for the third time.
Bunx05
I don't think affirmative action is part of the problem (and not just because I'm black) ;-)
Affirmative action is not a quota system. It is commiserate with availability, meaning that if no minorities or women apply for the job, you don't have to go look for any. Also, affirmative action states that you only have to consider them for the job IF they are qualified.
Truth be told, white men are stilled hired more often than any other group. It is more difficult for older employees, but not for the reasons you may think. Older workers are more likely to leave when they reach their goal age for retirement (usually sooner than young people). I'm not saying I agree with it, but I know how these people think.
flyoverland
If that's what it really was, you would have a point. It isn't. If you fail to hire minorities, fail to actively seek them out, you are de facto guilty in the eyes of any EEOC investigation. Companies don't wait for affirmative action, they use the doctrine of "diversity" which isn't a law, but might as well be. If you think companies don't have a quota, you've never run one.
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