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Shootout at Oregon Office Park
At least two have been reported dead in a Portland-area workplace shooting Tuesday, MSNBC reports. The gunman fired shots at Tualatin, Oregon, drug-testing center Legacy Metro Lab, where local police say two died and several were injured. The suspected shooter is "not at large" and is believed to have acted alone. Witnesses told The Oregonian that they heard between five and eight gunshots; one man described seeing a woman in a blood-smeared lab coat fleeing the scene, then helping her tend to her wounds at a nearby Subway restaurant.
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Americans are losing it! Just remember that eveyone has the right to bear arms. Ha!
In light of these events, arming oneself looks like a good idea.
I dunno, I've been alive for 26 years and not once have I been killed by gunfire.
True. So would you agree the gun-control position is overhyped?
From Ft. Hood to Oregon, the pro-gun folks are on a roll!
Pakistan has suicide bombers, America has gun enthusiasts!
The conservatives have made guns their religion.
Thought you were going to say: From Ft. Hood to Mt. Hood...not so funny at all but wondering if the verbal connection was made in the mind of the shooter...
so glad i can bear arms to protect myself!
I'm glad I can drink beer and play video games! It's great to be glad.
You're far more likely to shoot a loved one or yourself after a few drinks than you are to "protect" yourself from some burglar, but of course those deaths only happen to other people, not to smart folks like you.
Totally incorrect. Recent studies indicate that people use a gun to defend themselves around a million times a year, almost always without shooting anybody. My family has owned guns in America for 274 years. We also made and designed them. So far we have shot marauding Indians, fought five wars, stopped robberies, and shot a lot of game but never shot anyone who wasn't in desperate need of being shot. As for suicides, our rate is lower than Europe and unlikely to be influenced in any significant way by whether we have guns or not. The studies simply don't bear out your beliefs.
You're not citing "recent studies," you're citing family stories.
norton - I'm citing recent entire books on the subject, including a couple that were begun with the idea that they would prove the opposite of what they did. If you would like a long explanation of how the thirty year old study you cite is flawed, I would be happy to do so. By the way, do you know that 70% of all homicides are by people already arrested for a felony? So are more than half of the victims. Ordinary citizens scarcely figure in the murder statistics at all. You notice them because they make big news when they are, whereas the usual thug kills thug murders do not.
No matter how many mass shooting we have here in the US we still put our main focus on Islamic jihadists.
Some would have us believe that Islamic terrorists are planning some big secret attack. And yet we are more likely to be shot at school, work, at the fitness center, or out shopping.
The school shooting really bother me. But kids getting shot up at school seems to be acceptable to a lot of people.
In the Mid-East its Palestinians against Israelis--here its anybody against everybody.
And for all of you who are going to blather about the 2nd amendment, I'd like to remind you that they used muskets back in those days.
Granite - Here's some blather...
'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'
Wasn't this about the general reluctance to have a standing army and instead to have a citizen militia capable of defending life and property, this militia to function under some form of local governmental control whatever that might be?
God bless you for emphasizing the part that the NRA omits every goddam time they quote it!!!
Federal statutes then and now define the militia as every ablebodied male from 16 to 60 whether they are a citizen or not. That is the militia. It isn't a dictionary definition, or a personal definition, but a carefully defined legal definition. The right to bear arms is the right of self defense. The police do not protect you. They merely punish those who rob, rape, or murder you. Myself, I'd prefer to spare them the difficulty.
By the way, using the definition current in 1789, well regulated means able to hit the target.
Let's also remember that as prescient as the founding fathers were, they didn't get everything right-- there have been seventeen additional amendments to the US Constitution (not including the Bill of Rights). It was also originally written that each slave be counted as 3/5ths of a person and not be allowed to vote. Maybe we should take a closer look at the second amendment, and ask ourselves whether it truly has a place in today's world, or if it's just another one of those things that haven't kept up with the times..
Aslanleon - "By the way, using the definition current in 1789, well regulated means able to hit the target."
I did not know that, so I looked it up. It doesn't seem to have quite the same meaning as you described, though your description seems to be included in the overall meaning, which seems about proper training and being under control.
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html
Even so, it still seems like whatever it is, it's subject to law.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.shtml
One is left wondering what is meant by "the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia."
Is someone (not in the National Guard) sitting at home with a collection of shotguns in the gun safe and a pistol in the top drawer of his or her nightstand a member of the unorganized militia?
Were the people bearing arms at the constituent meetings held by assorted politicians just members of the militia?
Fascinating. Something to look into.
btw - Is Aslanleon a contraction of Aslan, the "Great Lion"?
You're right about the unorganized militia. It includes basically everybody. An example of how this worked in real life was the history of my ancestral county. When the Indians and Tories attacked the outlying settlements during the Revolution, the county government ordered the militia called up. What this meant was that every able-bodied male went to the muster (announced calling up time and place) with his weapon and elected officers. They then proceeded with the business of driving off the enemy of the day. If you didn't show up, you were fined or generally treated very badly. The statutes defining militia have not changed. We seldom form up militia companies nowadays, but the legal mechanism for doing so is in place not only in Federal law but in the Constitution. A remnant of this that survived longer is the posse. Even in the twentieth century the Sheriff as chief county official could demand the services of any able bodied person to assist in arresting a criminal or putting down a riot.
The Second Amendment was inspired by the action of various European powers in limiting the right of ordinary citizens to be armed. It guarantees the right of self defense, the right to be an active participant in the armed struggles of the government, and a safeguard against tyranny. So it was conceived by the original founders.
As for Aslanleon, I admire C.S. Lewis and my grandmother's maiden name was Leonhardt.
And exactly what is your point?
When we guaranteed freedom of the press the press was hand operated, printed on expensive cloth paper, and could turn out about fifty sheets an hour. Those of you who blather about the First Amendment should be reminded about that.
I bet it's a secret muslim communist Al-Queda ACRON member planted by Obama to distract people from abortions. Or something.
Joking aside, my heart goes out the the family members of the lost. This is horrible, as is the other killings happening recently. Could these last two be a case of "Hey, that guy did it, why shouldn't I?"
"That guy did it, why shouldn't I" is very likely a variable. There is significant empirical data to support the theory of a "copy cat" reaction to both suicide and homocide. If a suicide occurs in a high school, you can expect a minimum of 5 additional attempts within that particular school.
What is this, Glenn Beck Nation rearing its ugly head? (You know yer all thinking the same thing--after a summer of getting people all worked up, it's likely.) BOKO
hey BOKOBOT I freaking love your handle. As for your comment, let's be kind - the Glenn Beck nation's head isn't ugly - it's distinctive.
Also....BOOBS!
I read the article. Based on what little is said, this really sounds like love gone seriously wrong or a love entirely imagined by the shooter and not reciprocated. It's telling that the shooter killed himself as well as the one woman he murdered.
This kind of stuff was happening long before 9/11 and Glenn Beck.
yeah, but it wasn't happening before guns...that means guns are to blame and we should send them all to canada... or something...Hey who wants to race me at Mario Kart? Anyone?...
Guns have been around for a long time. And this sort of nonsense was happening when swords and spears were the big thing. Sexual jealousy is never pretty.
Why is the US so reluctant to update its outdated Constitution? Most modern societies have updated their old constitution more than once since the world has changed since the XVIII century.
WHY IS MY COMPUTER STUCK ON CAPITAL LETTERS? oh, caps lock... stupid constitution.
NoNoneSense - What would you update it to?
To whatever the American population prefers. It just seems a few Amendments and Articles are always coming up in debates.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
Expect more of this -- there is desperation at play.
Who wants to ignore the Bill of Rights?
LIBERALS
Who wants to repeal the Bill of Rights?
LIBERALS
Who thinks the Bill of Rights is old-fashioned?
LIBERALS
Who doesn't care about your rights?
LIBERALS.
Let them keep their guns. Just ban the manufacture and sale of ammunition.
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