Cheat Sheet
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The National Debt Problem
The recession is ending but the debt pile only grows: The U.S. is now more than $12 trillion in the red. Servicing that national debt will cost the country $202 billion this year, and more than $700 billion per year by 2019, according to White House estimates. For comparative purposes, $500 billion in interest expenses could cover the federal budgets this year for education, energy, homeland security, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and still have some left over. While this year's spending surge is widely believed to be a necessary response to the financial crisis and recession, the long-term budget crisis, which arrived just as baby boomers are beginning to retire en masse, has sent the Treasury is scrambling to lock in today's low interest rates by shifting short-term borrowings to long-term bonds. But much like overstretched homeowners with a subprime mortgage, the government can probably look forward to payment shock.
Demsdisorder
We need to pass the health care bill now... forget the debt this bill wont cost one penny. I still haven't figured out how they will do it but they said they would and i don't think they would deceive us. They never did so why would they start now.???
contessabelle
Lacking a higher authority, the government will say anything to achieve it's political goals. They say this healthcare bill won't cost a penny! The cost of out $12 trillion (and growing) debt will be felt by every economic class in this country. Higher taxes, higher food and energy costs and the disincentive to create jobs is already taking a serious toll on Americans. Didn't we leaning anything from the housing bubble and collapse? Now we have the government spending bubble that ultimately must come home to roost as well. Money supplies aren't endless!!!!
estcruzer
yes they will, and no, rich people will not be hurt by this bubble and crash (yet to come), in fact rich people will continue to consolidate power and resource control as the middle class is squashed by taxes, job losses, deflation and general disenfranchisment by Big Business. These troubled times are really good news for rich people, they get bailed out - by us - while we go bankrupt, lose our homes, etc.
It's really time to take the vote away from big business - they are not Americans anymore (being global, they really don't care about our wellfare).
When was the last time your government bailed you out from some disastrous risk you took that was all your fault? And then allowed you to take that money and give yourself a bonus for doing such a ?good? job. No, what they do is give you options on how to mortgage your financial future to give Big Business more money while slowly recovering from your injuries. No bonuses for you - that money goes to your favorite Big Business Charity.
diamondgirl
This is what Beck has been saying for a long time, NOW the Left is paying attention,?
Because the NYT says so NOW its time to act like its their idea...you guys make me Laugh...... I have one question, How far up Obama's @ss are you suckers that you cant smell the stench of this Administration? It wasnt bad enough when R's did it, and we voted them out, and now it's the Dems turn. Say bye bye to all those who voted for any bills that increases this deficit, including the Health Care bill. Oh and that means all those hand outs for those who are able to work will have to get a job...WOW good luck with that, since this Administration only wants people who need them for hand outs, ins,jobs. That is the Saul Alinski way of life, all three of those things cost money, higher taxes and BIGGER DEFECIT!
Grimmace
Are you trying to suggest that the Messiah really can't deliver us better healthcare to more people for less cost?!? Blashphemy!!!
Demsdisorder
this bill we do nothing to help health care and The government has never made anything run cost effectively. this is a big government pig. a flue shot will cost taxpayers about $475. in the real world it is $35. they just feel a need to play with all the money to fund there payoffs and backroom deals. Bottom line they need the money and power.
jburrey2
Democrats need to pass the healthcare bill now to let us know that they accomplished something in 2009 except raising the deficit to $12 trillion....so we can all forget there are no jobs, lots of foreclosures. When the goverment sticker shock kicks in we'll all pay again in higher tax payments and well as insurance premiums.....no free ride here.
LostPatriot
Fist, the government is not trying to pass a "health care bill". They are working on an "insurance plan" that will pay for health care. As long as this "insurance plan" money continues to make the insurance cartel rich it should pass. If were to help the country or benefit the tax payers it will not pass.
SimonSaize
I know why don't they eliminate the debt by declaring bankruptcy and stop borrowing money. And how is that multi-billion dollar businesses come out this country but the government and American people are in debt?
Obama's meeting in China failed? Has anybody thought about the fact that we owe China money but they have the jobs and businesses and they rely on our economy to purchase their goods sold here?
Does that make sense (?)- we owe China- and they sell us goods- they produce the product and sell it to us and we owe them a favor? Think about it.
That's just one- one fact- now, several documentaries were made on the decay of this culture of America and of course the people making the films are considered rejects of the U.S.- same old fucking story- the people they didn't like are ahead of them and know- including me. This isn't I told you so- its I'm telling again morons and its annoying.
Two films to mention:
"What Would Jesus Buy"
and
"King Corn"
both show and explain our plight and both were made years ahead of the news- you people just don't fucking care until its either gone or destroys- then you blame others. Sorry it not Obama's fault. Keep it up and you will be even sorrier. No lie. We are watching you.
Genni2002
Too big to fail...errrr...ignore?
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n--Y--maladaptedDemsdisorder
It is the darkest time this country has ever seen.
evae1960
Oh, please. No, the darkest time this country has ever seen has yet to make it out into the light of day after 8 years of Cheney/Bush following two other Repub administrations that deregulated everything from the health care industry to banking. I like to think of this time as corporate communism-centralized control and resources in the hands of a few people-No, I'm not referring to the government, I'm referring to the corporations via the lobbyists.
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n--Y--cvillekidbgeasyas123
Real show of compassion..........equate dollars to human lives
pennsykid2000
Life must be so simple when one is ignorant of history.The budget deficit for fiscal 2009 was $1.4 trillion. That was BUSH's last budget. Obama's first started this past Oct 1. Bush inherited budget surpluses from Clinton and turned them into record deficits before the end of his first term. He then campaigned on a promise to cut them in half by the end of his second term (how nice of him to promise to partly undo his own recklessness), but ended up tripling them instead. And what have so-called conservatives had to say about this the last 8 years? They renominated and re-elected him. So much for their principles. Nothing matters to them but party affiliation. Obama is a Dem, so they will be against him forever, no matter how much more competent and responsible he is than Bush.
The self-proclaimed "fiscal conservatives" in the Republican congresses of earlier in this decade voted to spend hundreds of billions to invade and occupy Iraq, and to give the wealthy huge tax cuts, all without any clamor that these be "deficit neutral". The result was a doubling of the national debt, from $5 to $10 trillion, after the decade began with surpluses. Now that we want to extend health care access to tens of millions without it and eliminate other inequalities, suddenly Republicans (and blue dogs) demand that it not increase the deficit. What horrible, immoral, unAmerican values these people hold to! Placing greater importance on stupid wars and tax cuts for the rich than health care for those without it. I guess they've forever abandoned any pretense of being the party of "family values".
theoPitt
You are technical correct that Bush's final budget ran until Oct 2009, but seriously, you do know that the $700 Billion stimulus emergency spending was pushed through by Obama, right? You aren't so ignorant as to have forgotten that, are you?
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n--Y--maladaptedhfb1053
Thanks pennsy for the post. Everyone has been so negative about everything, your post was refreshing. It's not all doom and gloom at the hands of Obama; we can thank Bush for a lot of the doom and gloom. We just need to keep pushing ahead and it's going to hurt a lot for a long time but eventually we'll come out of this crisis.
Grimmace
Putting aside your gross distortion of claiming that Bush's deficits somehow accrue to October 2009, let's examine your last paragraph a little closer.
What you are basically saying is that because the Republicans wasted money that we didn't have on things you didn't like, Obama and the Democrats should now be allowed to waste money we don't have on things that you support. That's a very responsible way of solving this crisis!
daveinboise
Grimmace,
How can you say allowing Americans health care insurance is a waste of money. With workers not worrying about their health insurance, they can go out and find higher paying jobs without fear of losing their insurance due to pre-existing conditions. Higher wages are a good thing, right?
The Bush tax cuts did not help the economy. And now the cuts are playing a major part in this crisis.
diamondgirl
This is the Democrat SPIN on things!
Grimmace
Dave, In my last post I was not trying to argue about the merits of the wars or healthcare or anything really -- just trying to point out that we don't really have the money for any of it when it comes right down to it.
But if you want to make a case of it then yes this healthcare bill is a disaster. You point out one small part of the overall provision that most people agree would be an improvement but fail to point out the many other detrimental aspects of the bill. Limit this bill to tort reform, open up insurance across state lines, and some fixes on preexisting conditions and then I'd support it all.
daveinboise
Grimmace,
I don't think increasing the average workers wage is one small item. Increase in wages allows for better family money management. You know, personal responsibility. The savings rate can still be at the current levels, between 3-5% of income, with an increase in spending without going into debt. Also, higher wages broaden the tax burden, which is also a good thing. Why do you think there was a push to have the "Ownership Generation"?
Talking a few general practitioners last week, they said malpractice insurance is not the biggest obstacle in health care. High cost for drugs is.
Opening up insurance across state lines can be a good thing, but tell me who will be regulating it. We have 50 different states with 50 different insurance regulations. Are you suggesting a federal agency for regulating insurance?
And what do you mean by "some fixes on preexisting conditions"? Some?
The Pay-Go system worked under Clinton, it should be followed again. We didn't need any more tax cuts, we cuts ourselves into this hole. No, we can't do a tax increase this year and probably next year, but letting some of the Bush tax cuts expiring in 2011 will help. And I don't see a great drop in income occurring because of it. Wall Street executives not getting million dollar bonus just because they are going to pay 3 to 4.5% more.
Demsdisorder
Wasn't the Clinton's surplus a projected surplus? with the current tax revenue would it still be a surplus??? i think not
daveinboise
Demsdisorder,
Maybe you should think again. The debt decreased the last two years of the Clinton administration. But, yes further surpluses were projected. The prediction seemed to have legs since there was a history of debt reduction.
GuinnessXXStout
Trying to talk facts with people who have a greater proclivity towards myth-making narratives than historical truth is pointless. Of course Bush's budget extends through to 2009. If it didn't, Obama would have had to hammer out a budget and have it authorized by congress the day he was elected. Second, if you look at any evidence, or simply google debt to GDP ratio, you'll see that ever Republican president from 1945 through 2009--with the exception of Nixon and Eisenhower--have increased the debt to GDP ratio, while every Democrat has reduced it. Government spending increases are as high or higher with Republicans than Democrats.
The explanation lies in the narrative of the conservative party. Republicans claim to cut spending and taxes. They cut the largest tax revenues while increasing spending. Republicans claim that Democrats "tax and spend." What this means is that they pay for what the spend, (an odd way of saying it.) Republicans don't pay for what the spend, hence the increase. Reagan liked telling the story of a welfare mama in Chicago driving around in a Cadillac bought by the taxpayers. Well, that's the Republican party: they live off the taxpayers and buy all their pet projects on borrowed money, then claim when the bank forecloses and all their stuff is repossessed. Clinton's fiscal legacy was a projected 10 trillion dollar surplus; Bush's, 12 trillion dollar deficit.
The responsibility for our fiscal state falls as such:
Recession: 37%
Bush policies from the last eight years: 53%
Obama policies: 10%
Of course, the conservative myth-makers will have a whole new story. Reagan, (increased spending, quadrupled the size of the government and drove the deficit way up,) became a hero. Bush, for doing the same, is the villain who tricked Republicans into voting for him twice, supporting his ever decision they now denounce, and telling anybody that disagrees with him they are unAmerican.
I've never been a fan of our two-party system, but for the sake of rational self-interest, I hope the Democrats stay in control for a long time. American needs it.
cbeenthere
Guinness is Good For You !
jburrey2
If your interested in understanding the handling of our current Obama Administration, in contrast to the Roosevelt Administration, read the biography of the Franklin Roosevelt Administration recovering from the great depression, and covering WWII on every continent, "No Ordinary Time", by Doris Kearns Goodwin, which covers a world wide war and the largest deficit to that time. Fortunately the Wallstreet vampires didn't benefit, but the average worker.
Marooph
Dear maladapted
Rushing to embrace increase in US troops in Afghanistan solves no problem. Russia had a better chance to do that but they simply berry their shame and withdrew. American economy is sinking: more troops, more loans, more creditors, less dignity and US supremacy. If you're stranded in a hole, you don't dig more, you simply ruminate about coming up.
Those who originated "INTEREST" do not take loan, but they long for and rush to grab billions of dollars worth of annual grants. Sometimes they conjure sentiment to merit this. The world of interest-based economy leads to nothing but slavery. Check it out! How much did America borrow? Do we have an idea of how much has gone to the pockets of the creditors? Fine, we all now know what remains of the easily sourced but hard-to-pay loans together with the associated chunk that would go annually into loan servicing. Isn't it the right time to ponder and bow down to rule of God Almighty Who has placed His curse on interest and His blessing on partnership? Islamic economic system is designed by Him to take care of all and sundry.
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n--Y--maladaptedmakeclear
The national debt is a result of the spendrift ways of the Republicans and Democrats over decades. Not just 1 year or 8 years.
Mr. Clinton left a budget surplus of $500 billion, it was squandered during the last administration.
The national debt on January 20, 2009 when the current administration was over $10 trillion and counting.
Who started an un funded war in Iraq, that cost over $1 trillion and counting, not the current administration
Who started the unfunded war in Afganistan, that has cost $ billions and counting. Not this current administration.
Who created the Department of Home Land Security adding $ billions to the Government's pay roll, and is of dubious benefit. Not the current administration.
Who passed the unfunded Medicare Drug Plan, with the donut hole, which allows the public and the Government to be bilked $ billions, and is accessable to illegal aliens. Not the current administration.
Who bailed out Wall Street, and your beloved incurance compay (AIG). Not the current administration.
Who had 2 or 3 stimulus packages over 8 years, without any accountability of how, and to whom the money was doled out to. Not the current administration.
The deficit, did not happen over night,it took years, and a lot of bad decisions. Those were not created by the current stimulus package. If it were for the current stimulus package alone we would have no debt at all.
Every one knows where the current stimulus package is being spent, look below:
1. Half of it has not been spent yet, it is still sitting in the treasury. That is about $ 350 billion. The other half has been spent on:
a. the states to make up their budget short falls, thus saving the jobs of police, firemen. teachers and other state workers.
b, un-employment insurance. People who ran out of State benefit, get Federal benefit
c. health insurance. People who lose thier jobs, the federal Government picks up 65 % of the insurance cost.
d. working people who qualiy get an extra $ amount every pay check.
If there are 14 million un-employed persons because of the recession, then there are a lot of people being helped by the stimulus package. So there is accountability. and it is a good thing..
Republicans need to look in their rear view mirrors and see the carnage they left behind. To expect the Democrats to fix everything in 1 year is totally, unrealistic.
Be honest and look at the problems that was left to the current administration, and adjust your thinking.
1. Two un-funded wars
2. An un-funded Medicare Drug plan
3. An un-funded Depsartment of Home Land Security
There are also other issues which effects our economy, that were un resolved by the past administration:
a. immigration issues
b. energy policy
c, health care
d. global warming issues
These are but a few of the problems that were left to the current administration. The current administration need some time to work through these issues.
The Republicans should pitch in to clean up the mess they left behind, rather than vote no to all and every thing.
The national debt was not created in 1 year, but several years, even decades. Ross Perrot talked about it 15 years ago'
Put things in perspective the $350 billion stimulus spent so far is a small dent, to the over all debt.
If the economy was not in such a bad shape at the end of 2008, there would have been no need for a stimulus package.
Note that all the candidates for Presidency in 2008, talked about a need for a stimulus package to stimulate the economy.
In fact President Regan implemented a stimulus package during his tenure. It took over two years to kick in. Before the economy turned around there were people like you,who stated that Mr. Regan failed. When the economy turn around, he was again popular .Did you forget this period in our history?
Look at some of the economies across the pond (Europe), they are in worse shape than ours. Un-employment is in the 14--16 % range.
Did you know that most of them injected money into thier economies, and bailed out their banking systems to prevent collapse.
I do not think that you knew how close we came to total economic disaster. Both Mr. Bush and Mr. Obama saved us from the abyss.
Be free to research the facts, then face them realistically.
Marooph
Maladapted, got your response to my reply.
That's fine if all of us are librating ourselves from the abyss of ignorance we have been sunk by the political class. It takes less energy to deceive but covering the mess is accompanied with huge resources and pains. That is exactly the price America is paying in Afghanistan.
Give me a break! Where is the Weapon of Mass Destruction leading the US to conquer Iraq with such a heavy cost of war? The scientists have equally contested the theory explosion of the Twin Tower - the main reason of why our troops are languishing in the lion's den. They simply find the 'Implosion Theory' to be real and more scientific; of course you can fill in the gaps..... If these Almighty Crooks could cause such wanton destruction to justify all-out war in Afghanistan, then where is the success of America in this region?
The hard-to-get tax payers' sweat together with the hard-to-pay loan from China is being lavished, let alone the souls wasting away out there without knowing why they're in. How many of their siblings are in the front lines? P. Bush in the Navy is surely a hoax, time would tell.
If the Bushs have a scuffle with the Bin Ladens, innocent souls shouldn't be the buffer. Americans should resist the blood thirsty lobbyists, allow for more friendly foreign policies, and make Americans more loveable outside the US.
While we sympathise with the family of the falling heroes, I think Obama's delay is in line with the much needed constructive conflict resolution in Afghanistan. Matthew P. Hoh, The US Senior Civilian Representative to Afghanistan has done his own path; I recommend we all read the content of his resignation letter. We should all play our parts so the troops could be freed from the war of vendetta between political crooks.
periscope
America's debt problem began with Raygun in 1981. His policies of huge tax cuts for the rich, huge increases in defense spending, and disregard for the enforcement of tax evasion laws and anti-trust laws were followed by all subsequent Republican administrations.
Only the Clinton administration, which increased the taxes on the rich without a single Republican vote, generated a surplus instead of another record deficit.
Under Bushboy, we were told by Republicans that "deficits don't matter." And so we went from the $200 billion/year surpluses of the Clinton administration to the $1 trillion/year deficits of the Bushboy regime. In the process, Bushboy doubled the national debt he had inherited to over $10 billion.
To say that the Republicans have been fiscally irresponsible is an understatement. And yet, check with any so called "Republican leaders" today and their first solution to our economic problems ... wait for it ... is: MORE TAX CUTS!
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n--Y--maladaptedkord81
maladapted all you need to show us is how Obama tripled the deficit.
wolverine1987
Obama's OWN BUDGET projects a tripling of the debt over 10 years. Bush doubled it, Obama ripped him, then did one better--tripling it. Loved how SNL obliterated Obama Saturday:
Chinese Leader: How will extending health insurance to 30 million new people actually save money?"
Obama: "I don't know"
hfb1053
Mal - I think you've missed the point. You and the other like minded posters never stop mentioning Obama and these other posters are reminding you that it's not all because of Obama but because of Reagan, Bush, and their ilk. It's the Remind Game. It's just not possible that everything is because of one President; keep that thought in mind and you'll possibly make better assessments of the situation.
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n--Y--maladaptedThis user is no longer registered.
n--Y--cvillekidPlantagenet
Great post, hfb.
Posters here appreciate your openness to discussion and willingness to step away from the lockstep liberal position when the situation calls for it.
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n--Y--maladaptedzetathree
The liberal in me hates posting a Cato Institute link but hopefully it will settle the whole Obama tripled the deficit misinformation. Plus it has pictures.
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/11/19/dont-blame-obama-for-bushs-200 9-deficit/
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n--Y--cvillekidkord81
maladapted no I don't need a calculator. I need you to show me how Obama tripled the deficit stop giving me numbers. You have to explain the trillion deficit and how Obama added to it.
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n--Y--maladaptedhfb1053
cville - you sure do a lot of protesting about my post. Must have hit a nerve. It doesn't take any skill set to insult me or anyone else. It's more a reflection on who you are and that's not looking too good. Give yourself a break. If you have something to contribute other than mindless insults, let's hear it. Otherwise, you're just another insulting, non-contributing poster. Back to you.
kord81
maladapted you still don't have an argument...you just recycled what you said in a different way.
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n--Y--maladaptedkord81
maladapted maybe? but then I don't care about if carbon molecules have six protons or not. Just scroll up a little and look up the brilliant argument "GuinnessXXStout" made about the economy under a democratic president vs republican president. Your argument is a marching slogan, until I see some facts.
makeclear
How can an intelligent person make such an outrageous claim without any proof.
I don't think that you mean what you said, just trying to still up things right?
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n--Y--cvillekidhfb1053
cville - just so we're clear. I don't need anyone to support my position. I can support it on my own. It is nice to hear other posters give support but I'm an adult and can handle the likes of you quite easily. You think you can insult me away; not going to happen. All you are accomplishing now is making yourself look pretty silly that you would argue that I'm wrong and you're right to continue to be an insulting, snarky poster. Carry on.
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n--Y--cvillekidhfb1053
and you, cville, responded. Just let me know when you want to stop being so insulting and maybe we can have some meaningful dialogue about the state of our country. JimBob? Is that a friend of yours?
Grimmace
Yeah, you got it periscope -- It's all the Republican's fault. Such a simplistic view of the world surely makes it easy to understand the problem and offer solutions.
There are many Republicans to blame for where we are in this mess -- particularly George Bush -- but I would suggest that their transgressions should be focused more on spending than on tax cuts. The tax cuts have almost universally proven to have added to the revenue received by the treasury. The Republicans by focusing solely on cutting taxes and growing the economy unfortunately felt they could then mostly go along with all of the Democrats spending and entitlement expansions. So while tax cuts increased revenue, that didn't offset the enormous growth of government that has ensued -- particularly now that we have hit a particularly nasty recession.
Yes there are many Republicans to blame for this mess we face, but other than defense spending, where have the Democrats been all this time in fighting against all this spending? Nowhere of course. In most cases they wanted to spend even more than Republicans and expand Government even further.
daveinboise
Grimmace,
My brief research is telling me something different. Tax cuts don't pay from themselves, and causes the government to borrow more, and increases the debt and debt financing. We've seen the Bush tax cuts didn't increase revenue. In fact tax revenue decreased from 2001-2007. Laffer himself doesn't know if tax cut increase tax revenue.
So If you have some further informationi haven't found, would you please share it?
evae1960
Don't forget to mention that Bush passed three tax cuts for the top earners while waging wars on two fronts...
That, and deregulation of banking has gotten us where we are today.
diamondgirl
You know I bet the Obama has Bush on speed dial, just to ask if he is spending enough money...Two PIN HEADS
Demsdisorder
with all this going back in time. I wonder how much of a deficit president Lincoln left?? I do believe its his fault. Can someone get me the time machine please?
diamondgirl
Demsdisorder, I was making fun of the Dems, but I think they have gone back as far as Lincoln to blame him for everything not Obama
Demsdisorder
Diamond.. sorry i wasn't commenting your post... i was just reading the BS about Reagan and the debt. people need to stay in the now.
periscope
Please correct my error above. Bushboy doubled the national debt to $10 trillion ... not billion.
diamondgirl
peri, you are wrong on both counts. it looks like you need a math class to learn how to count.
connie47
The national debt 1in 989 was $2.7 trillion.
The national debt in 2008 passed the $10 trillion mark.
Expecting the current president to begin to solve the problem is reasonable. Using the problem to bash him over the head is cheap and irresponsible politics as usual. I expect no less from some of the posters here.
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n--Y--maladaptedconnie47
Maladapted is allergic to the truth. The national debt in 2008 passed $10 trillion. The president in 2008 was George Bush, a Republican. It has NOT tripled under Obama.
Grimmace
deficit Connie, not debt. -- read the fine print. And of course, maladapted is right -- the deficit will come in somewhere around 3 times that of Bush's last year.
connie47
Grimmace,
You read the fine print. He responded to MY post, which said DEBT.
Plantagenet
Mal is right. Obama has tripled the deficit.
Obama lied when he said he would cut the deficit. Trying to blame Bush for Obama's lies is silly. Bush isn't president anymore----its Obama who is spending far more money then the government is taking in.
Demsdisorder
do you mean to tell me obama is the president now??
Desertpenguin
PLANTAGENET's comment that starts "Mal is right. Obama has tripled the deficit..." uses Rules # 1 & 3 of THE 5 RULES OF PROPAGANDA --
1) The rule of orchestration: endlessly repeating the same messages in different variations and combinations.
3) The rule of disfiguration: discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies.
The other 3 RULES OF PROPAGANDA ARE--
2) The rule of simplification: reducing all data to a simple confrontation between 'Good and Bad', 'Friend and Foe'.
4) The rule of transfusion: manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one's own ends.
5) The rule of unanimity: presenting one's viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right-thinking people: draining the doubting individual into agreement by the appeal of star-performers, by social pressure, and by 'psychological contagion'.
memo02
I know we make many mistakes on the past, but, never like the one we live today, why we stop the actual medicare ?, and cretae a new one !, one way or another all this people who are unemplyed they will receive help, money and Health Care right ?, this don't make any sense , save money, reduce national deficit ?, yea right, I don't think so, what is going to reduce is my pay check,....
jimbolini
Who is likin' this change???
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n--Y--cvillekidhfb1053
cville - Try a little civility and lose the "silly, trite" remarks. This is how you welcome a new poster? I just don't get why so many TDB posters think it's OK to be so insulting. Your post speaks for you. Do you want it to say you are rude and insulting or intelligent with thoughtful remarks. I know you can do whatever you want but it's really insulting to both yourself and the person you're responding to.
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n--Y--cvillekidevae1960
The suicide isn't happening quickly enough, in my opinion.
hfb1053
cville - try reading your posts as though they were written by someone else and one of two things will happen: you'll laugh at the crudeness of the poster or you'll think what the hell is wrong with this poster. Surely, you can make a point without going for the throat, can't you? And you're the one who mentioned that "Jimoblini, a new TDB poster, introduces himself with the silly, trite question" It would be nice if you weren't rude to anyone but ...... And regarding the hard-right -- you only wish!
winston1
cville Move your hand so we can pat you on your back.
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n--Y--cvillekidhfb1053
cville - I'm not concerned about the hard right pushing me around or "burying me". I don't push too easy. Just because I'm not vomiting out insults doesn't mean I can't deal with rude, crude, or hard people. What, do you think you're the King of Gangsters or something and I should be concerned. Think again. My point is to spend time actually talking/discussing/arguing/disagreeing about our government and it's policies; NOT about slinging insults at one another. Any 4th grader can do that.
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n--Y--cvillekidDemsdisorder
I do its very entertaining to see the liberals with all the cards and unable to do a dam thing.
I'm starting to think not all Democrats are liberals. Ohh,, ya just 20% are. who would have guessed.
DeliaK
We're bankrupt and this administration didn't get us there, but is being blamed for it. We must spend to get out of this mess. What really kills me is anyone who is listening to Republicans spout the same old rhetoric that cutting taxes will improve the job situation. The job situation will NOT be improved by that! It's simple supply and demand economics. America needs to manufacture products that other countries want to buy. We can't support our country without money from other countries. A large segment of our economy is the insurance industry and we need to reduce their input through health care reform (this industry will not sustain our economy - it only bleeds us dry). Once that's done, we need to enforce the green economy by supporting those companies that manufacture products, which can be used worldwide to better our energy consumption. We can compete with the other countries in manufacturing only after we have what those other countries have -- universal health care.
Demsdisorder
wow.. do you really believe what you just wrote? one word CHINA
Housebird
The National Debt Problem ???? ---- No Problem ???
Planes and missiles and "smart" bombs that the USA continues to kill Muslims ????
Yes folks continuous billion-dollar planes firing million-dollar missiles at some hand-built Muslim farmhouse or cave.
Never mind the unfortunate children burned by that US profligacy ------- think of the expense ????????
American "people" hopefully ASAP will are begin to understand that the "economy" is not for average people.
The function of average people are only as factors of input, processing and exploitation.
The REAL economy is for the rich and powerful
http://alanfolsom-joethephilosopher.com/joe/Buried_Skunk.html
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Sidewinder
Whats $12 trillion in debt when you have a $700 trillion in Wall St-created WMD's hanging over our head waiting to go off at any moment?
hfb1053
Housebird: You're always preaching about how terrible the US is to muslims. Where is your sympathy for those that were killed by your muslims? If those same muslims thought they could fly a plane into our buildings, the Pentagon, and hopefully the White House and get a pass, then they were as misguided as you are now.
cbeenthere
So then, hfb, you are behind the $680 Billion in funding for one year for Defense Spending, no complaints about that?
evae1960
Those "Muslims" that you refer to are the ones who are observing the coverage in the places where our "smart"bombs land and blow up the homes and in some cases the entire small villages that their targets reside in. There is much collateral damage in the way of very small children, women and old people, as their societies' households are multi-generational.
Now, all you TDB geniuses put yourselves in their places, and imagine for just a brief moment how you might feel after observing the blown apart bodies of your fellow neighbors after being "smart" bombed into oblivion, I can see how these folks, however primitive and worthless in your estimations, are angry as hell at us.
I recall watching a piece recently about the pilots who operate these drones. One pilot commented on how happy his relieved wife is that he is not engaged in direct warfare with our enemy. He flies remotely from a hanger in Nevada. It made me sad to realize that we are so removed from the realities of everything involved in this situation and many other elements that are so crucial. both in politics, government, etc... We are flying remotely from the comfort of our own "hangers."
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n--Y--cvillekidhfb1053
cbeenthere - Are you advocating that nothing should have been done about the WTC? That's what I was responding to. Regarding Afghanistan which I assume you're talking about (didn't really mention anything but money), I think we should pull our troops out and bring them home. Of course, once the Taliban are the only force there and they're stoning women and cutting off hands, then you'll probably be back advocating for something else.
evae1960: I am sympathetic to the loss of life on both sides of this conflict but in regards to my remarks to Housebird, I find those postings to be anti-American so if it's okay with you, I'll concern myself to the loss of lives of my fellow citizens. If I have to make a choice about who I care about, I care about Americans -- what about you? Whose twisted bodies do you care about? The drones are merely mechanical suicide bombers; so we're more technologically advanced. Too bad that the Taliban dress like civilians and get their fellow Muslims killed by their actions. I am saddened by it all but once again, choices dictate that I want our troops to win and survive over them. If you are pro-Muslim, then perhaps you should go and fight for your side in those countries. I never really thought of myself as a genius but thanks for the unsolicited compliment. Go have a cookie.
winston1
hfb I have to admire how you take a stand on your policies. You set a good example for the blogger's on this site.
Housebird
Was it "The Muslims" --and why are many of those "named" Muslims still alive and well ??
Remember the FBI say they never had enough evidence to charge Bin Ladin .
But the American "here posting" Lynch Mob are wanting more and more blood.
Over 1.3 Million Iraqi dead = 9/11 times 325 ---- ( ICH )
http://www.takeourworldback.com/itwasntmuslims.htm
http://rainbowwarrior2005.wordpress.com/2009/11/
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LeftCoastRightBrain
BirdHead-
What, no rant against Israel?
LostPatriot
Why rant against Israel. It's under the control of the Zionist just like the USA.
oliverckerr
I am a candidate for president. The following program will generate a major portion of the interest on the national debt.
Uncle Sam Shazam
The credit card anchors are pulling us down; wrecking America's dream. Their charge-it schemes come with hooks too deep to fathom. They dip both ends of the stick, skimming the sales with nets the fish cannot slip; then at the swipe of your card they reel out their dough, riding your line on the rate you agreed to, the total you owe.
Horrific stories abound. You pay your bills online on time. Build excellent credit. Then one night your laptop freezes. By a tock of the clock, you're late. Your interest rate jumps double digits, off the chart. Then you get the call. Sopranos on your cell.
Yet credit card folk appear angelic, necks to pay-check advancers who prey on the broke. The payday people put fifteen bucks on a hundred, their max two-weeks flat, and grinningly tell you, "That's 391.07 percent per annum."
The credit card giants and check advance dealers have something in common: The same filthy hands. Price fixers violate law. But their scams for scramming money are apparently legal, their shades, miniscule.
We need a public credit card option: The Uncle Sam Shazam!
The statute will read, regardless of your credit, an income guarantees your Shazam line comes with Shazam agreement: Uncle Sam Protection, the interest fair, plainly written clear, a teensy rate with excellent credit, higher for chronic late payers, your monies compounded quarterly.
The shops accepting Shazam can expect livable fees for all their transactions. You make the call, the citizen who flashes glam of Shazam, guaranteed extension.
Uncle Sam Shazam is a boon for Congress, too. Suggesting, "Public Option," burns their pocket through; halls of the Congress crowed by lobbyists, ducats by the bucket full. On Capitol Hill, lobbyists and prostitutes go far, share the same car. All aboard pay the fare, get their due.
Senator Max Baucus snatched three million pesos from the health care execs. Their single payer plan insures every body single, pesos them, unless you get sick. Then you don't have a prayer.
Lobbyists for entrenched purveyors will exercise their protection racket, rising to the call, stuffing campaign pockets up and down the hall, thousands for their elections, quid from the pros for Members of Congress all, to snub the Shazam, refuse to hold hearings, issue tabled, snubbing Nobel Prize winners on whether or not to consider saving us one trillion bucks a quarter.
Oh! That Shazam Card interest payment? That's in the statute. Interest goes to pay vigorish due on our national debt! I explained this idea to my banker: The public option for private creditor debt. The manager exclaimed, " We'll be back in the black."
Unless we draw down our world wide debt we will soon be secondary rated, our vigorous dollar slashed! That's the debtor etch on the window; why worldly executives self-inflict with repugnant piles of money, G'zillion dollar bonuses that dwarf their pay. They sense devaluation is coming our way, trillions of deboned empty dollars ushering steep dénouement, their inflation plan, stash while you can.
How long after 2012 before one stick of Wrigleys will chew up a dollar? When I was a kid five sticks cost a nickel. One dollar covered an emergency trip to Doctor Greunfeld's, a block away. A chunk of coal was stuck in my eye. Those days are gone. My eye is OK.
When our economy slumps in a funk, instead of braying for the Federal Reserve to adjust money cost, we can bump the Shazams of all our working folk 500 bucks, interest and payments not for six months. When the bottom is up, our economy pumps; their Fed economy, anomaly.
What about dead beat non-payers? Oh? What about that income tax refund?
Besides the vig from our national debt, Shazams' net, locked and boxed to square medicare, saving trillions, we have home land security snookered, re-spoken for by Great Sam Uncle Shazam.
The conspiracy crowd shouts I'm nationalizing private debt, Uncle Shazam will get in our lives deeper yet, find out to whom we owe, and for what. That's right! Grin and get bare with it, the great skinny dip, our ship of state buoyed by Shazam; our all purpose patriotic ticket.
The government taps your transaction information and sweeps every move. Times where you go. Sees what you do. Good. Shazam dissolves their queasy need to tap our phones en masse, listening to one maybe wannabe terrorist! Cells qualified for spot checks should belong to those who hide behind cash. With Shazam we regain our homeland security, the privacy of our home spoken thoughts, sanctified in our sanctuary.
You approach an ATM. Insert Shazam, punch in your pin, whisper magic word, greenback appears. (Shazam magic word.)
michaelslevinson.com
melpol
The states must help Uncle Sam bear the burden of supporting the poor. Our once rich Uncle is now broke. The poor are becoming poorer by the day. Retailers are suffering from a rise in shoplifting. Food markets will soon be protected by watchdogs sniffing for goodies hidden in undergarments. Added state taxes are needed to feed the unemployed and hungry.
Daveparts
"The recession is ending " This won't hurt, the checks in the mail and the recession is ending. Wanna buy a bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Obama didn't cause this but he's not taking the right steps to correct it either. For the children in the slow learners class 40% of Obama's stimulus was in the form of tax cuts to try and lure Republicans into voting for it. $315 billion dollars in more tax cuts when tax cuts are what brought us here.
Even the conservative Wall Street Journal now says the the stimulus was too small. It was swallowed by the collapsing economy. Planned highway projects were scuttled when Federal highway tax revenues fell meaning that states had stimulus money but little else.
With no other resources the states began using stimulus funds to salvage jobs rather than create them but its only a temporary rescue.
"His is a relationship to his little local bank or local loan company. It is a sad fact that even though the local lender in many cases does not want to evict the farmer or home-owner by foreclosure proceedings, he is forced to do so in order to keep his bank or company solvent. Here should be an objective of Government itself, to provide at least as much assistance to the little fellow as it is now giving to the large banks and corporations. That is another example of building from the bottom up." FDR, 1932
Time to bailout Main Street and not Wall Street
jburrey2
Don't you remember Daveparts.....Wallstreet apoogized last week and promised they's give business a piece of their bonus pool next year to help hiring....the problem is that small business' don't hire alot of people....we need a goverment blank check similar that went to the Wallstreet Casino early last year if they can spare it.....excuse me, I need to go cash my unemployment check I've received for the past 12 months.....
AlanD2
I'm glad to see a little common sense here, Daveparts. Almost all economists - liberal and conservative - agree that the stimulus bill was too small by a factor of two or three.
Today's dismal unemployment numbers show that their judgment was correct. But Republicans want to cancel any remaining stimulus money, balance our budget, and reduce our national debt.
As Herbert Hoover found out, this is the sure and certain road to Great Depression II.
cbeenthere
Not a word on here from the whining fiscal conservatives who march indignantly, their vile signs and words on the internet decrying government spending, but no words or discussion in regard to the $680 Billion Defense Spending Bill which was just signed to placate their greediness for war.
AmericanPackMule
DIMWIT: Defense Spending is the best $ Spent!!! ( Honest "Defense")!
cbeenthere
DUMBA**-
That is your opinion.
cbeenthere
Well, yours and other notables among them: Rumsfeld, Jong and the military now running Iran.
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n--Y--cvillekidcbeenthere
I don't know what you mean, kid. Velatti's?
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n--Y--cvillekidhfb1053
cville - The nuns that taught you must pray extra hard every night. Were you this strident as a student?
diamondgirl
WE know the truth, and you do too, the porkulus bill was a failure, there is nothing more to say. There are NO JOBS thats what people wanted to see and are still waiting.
winston1
cville The nuns must have flipped their habits
sbvpav
the deficit and ballooning interest payments coming due must be solved by revenue generation, come hell or high water or the 2010 and 2012 elections:
end the bush tax cuts to the wealthy, retroactively which if left to expire after ten years will have cost our government $3.9 trillion; bring the troops home and fight terrorism's violence another way; pass medicare for all instead of a bailout for the health insurance cabal which pleases no one; pass energy independence which will create jobs and pass another jobs creation bill targeted at needed infrastructure.
AlanD2
Personally, sbvpav, I favor raising the highest marginal tax rates back up to 90%, where it was in the 1950s - America's best economic decade.
diamondgirl
Alan, Iknow you hate rich people, and I know you had a tough time in the war, but that suggestion is not even American!
AlanD2
diamondgirl: I don't hate rich people. I love them. After all, they're supporting me now that I'm retired.
I just believe that they should contribute their fair share to the society that enabled them to become rich in the first place.
If they don't want to contribute to society, I say we just kill them and take their stuff. :-)
More seriously, we will disagree, naturally, on what their "fair share" actually is. That's what elections are all about.
And are you suggesting that American in the 1950s, under Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower, was not even American? You are RINOing everybody these days, diamondgirl!
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n--Y--cvillekidThank you.
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