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Thumbs Down for GOP Health Plan
The Congressional Budget Office has analyzed the Republicans’ proposed alternative to the Democrats’ health-care bill. The results? Under the GOP plan, 17 percent of legal, non-elderly Americans would be uninsured in 2010. By 2019, 17 percent of legal, non-elderly Americans would still be uninsured. The GOP plan would also save less money than the Democratic plan. According to the CBO, the GOP plan will reduce the deficit by $68 billion over the next two years. The Democratic plan will reduce the deficit by $104 billion. “The Democratic bill, in other words, covers 12 times as many people and saves $36 billion more than the Republican plan,” Ezra Klein writes.
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Well, how you like them apples?
The democratic plan uses smoke and mirrors to pass the CBO test. Most obviously it is front-loaded: it collects taxes for five years before it starts paying benefits.....these budget scams are the only reason a 10 year budget analysis shows it being revenue neutral. On a year-by-year basis once the benefits start it is way out of balance and will explode the deficit.
you're so full of crap.
plant gave up on numbers at an early age
hey, numbers won't get plant into heaven, therefore he doesn't care about them.
Most interesting, Plant. Your arguments are supported by... arguments. Right in line with your GOP comrades, Growthclubbers and Teapartiers. Just because you say the sky is falling does not make it so. Does sound scary, though.
Face it plantag, the GOP pulled this piece of crap right out of their azz without giving it much attention. They have done nothing but criticize and stall, and now they present us with the Potemkin Plan. Yay!
Scuttle back into the crack in the toilet from whence you came plantag.
OMG, you're hilarious Plant. It's almost like you raced out to make the official GOP response. It's also funny how you never question the CBO when the results are unfavorable to the Democrats. Let me ask you.....if the CBO assessment in this case isn't a fair one, what resource would you believe?
Whoa! Where did all you guys come from? Hooray!
And the republicans weren't even smart enough to craft a plan that could pass the CBO test that those stupid democrats so easily did with their smoke and mirrors? Does not inspire much confidence.
true true true Plantagenet..... we have the pro bloggers here paid to discount the truth pay no atttion to them. you are 100% on the money
Thanks for the complement NewYorker, but just because we can spell and we get our information from a wide variety of sources doesn't mean we're pros.
Planet were you concerned about paying three trillion dollars to invade, destroy and then rebuild IRAQ?
Plantagenet - You're Hugh and Lillian Hannity's third daughter, aren't you?
So you've read the entire bill and the CBO report? Or have you, like the Republicans in Congress just taken Fox's word for what the Democratic bill will do. The Republicans are too busy whining and bellyaching and making stupid speaches at teabagger rallies to be bothered actually reading the bill before they vote against it. They could care less if their constituents die from lack of healthcare. All they really care about is regaining power. They don't know what to do with power but they want it back. It means they can continue their ravaging of our government, economy and environment for fun and profit. That is their one and only concern. They didn't come to Washington to have to get things done for those at home or serve their country. They came to screw as many women possible, spend as much of our tax dollars on wars that they started over eight years ago, not caring in the least what they have done to a generation of our young soldiers in the process and of course enriching their own portfolios by deregulating as much of corporate America as possible so the profits will rise to the detriment of the rest of us. This sad little party needs to just crawl away and leave the rest of us to clean up the mess they made and stop the obstruction of everything the Administration wants to do even though they are hurting those they are suppose to be representing.
The only problem is the DEM bill costs $1.2 trillion, taxes and fines millions of Americans, too. The GOP plan has tort reform in it, no federally funded abortions and doesn't impose a government take over of our health care system. Slow down Washington or you'll soon be added to the unemployment rolls.
All you people yelling "Tort Reform" as if it's the problem really should face reality. In states where there has been aggressive tort reform still have very high health care insurance. The savings are not passed on to us, they are passed on to shareholders and executives. Furthermore, people deserve to be able to sue for medical malpractice and the caps on awards hurt the victim - remember, they need to be able to cover their medical expenses for the rest of their lives. Doctors need to quit protecting bad doctors and need to fight for malpractice insurance reform because the cost of insurance is indeed prohibitive.
The bills in both houses prohibit federally funded abortions under the Hyde Amendment - so don't worry - poor women will still be forced to have babies to keep them in their place.
If only our government would "take over" our health INSURANCE industry, then we could have cheaper, better care available to all and people wouldn't die and/or lose their homes because they don't have or lost their insurance.
So when your side gets proven wrong, you've got to make excuses for how wrong they were? And get off the abortion kick already. Let WOMEN, the only ones who have reproductive organs decide what they want to do with their bodies. Why is is only MEN who are stuck on this abortion issue? Could it be the republicans' deep rooted feelings of superiority of males over females? Abortion is NOT a problem, suck it up and drive on!
I agree with you artsy, but DO NOT try to nullify the need for tort reform, because it doesn't mean you will no longer be able to sue for malpractice, it is designed to eliminate waste in the system that doctors pile up so that they don't get sued for doing their jobs.
What am I referring too? Doctors order all sorts of tests in order to cover their ass because as it stands right now, if I went in feeling sick and the doctor didn't discover something that may not have been apparent, I can sue because he didn't run every test imagineable to discover what was wrong with me at that point.
Tor
So Let me understand this, current insurance funds abortions how come you are not against the current system also?
Considering that it was so weak (it gave more to health care insurers) we could not expect any other future for this ruse.
Have they finally realized that their gamble of supporting the health insurers over the American people has backfired?
CHECKMATE.
If you were in congress which bill would you vote for
the Democratic Bill or the Republican bill?
neither! furthermore i would move that both be tabled so we can get down to our clear duty, concentrating on the economy and jobs.
Yeah, let's concentrate on the economy! So what's our biggest single growing economic problem? Health reform! Alright then, let's tackle that!
mbg
economic recovery is a now thing. fix that first. spend time conjuring health care reform if you must but do not introduce taxes until full recovery. i would prefer that our reps used their massive mental powers concentrating on the immediate problem. but maybe they can chew gum and ...............
The fact that you want nothing speaks volumes you're worse then the GOP.
http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_study/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf
61% of bankruptcies are because of healthcare costs we fix that we fix the damn Economy.
The Fact that you don't want healthcare reform means you're against fixing the economy just like the rest of the rightwingers.
The stimulus bill TARP2 has already been passed if you didn't notice.
at best health care reform has a positive long term effect on the economy depending on the plan implemented. we are sitting on 10% unemployment now (16% if you include people who have been unemployed so long they're not counted anymore.)
re tarp2, how about 3,4 or whatever. let's get those brilliant minds on capitol hill figuring out how to get america back to work ------ YESTERDAY
Why the hell would we RE: Tarp when the stimulus bill is a 2/3 YEAR spending plan?
That hasn't been nearly half spend yet?
it isn't just about spending although if they do they ought to zone in heavily on small business because that's where the biggest job growth potential exists. could also cut taxes and change rules for business. the complexity is there so why not aim our brain power there until we see real results?
Because we already have?Stimulus package DID give tax cuts/tax credit/w/e, results takes time years of time. seriously you've no arguments.
Fact is Healthcare reform helps the economy. period.
http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_study/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf
just that we are held hostage by a very fragile recovery with 10's of millions unemployed and yet our leaders find time to dither with other issues. it's all about priorities and nothing approaches the importance of having a productive economy in a free state.
x2
Yup you're lost
I vote for none of grand plans. Let us take one bite at a time. Why are Democrats so afraid that they may not get a chance again to reform Health Care to their liking. If plan is good - all will support it. If it is smoke and mirrors, they like to pass it all because they know what is good for us. Are we taken as fools?
I don't know maybe because people will die and premiums will raise?
Reform? We don't need know stinking reform! We have the great health care system in the world! I heard Senator Shelby say it and he would never lie. Look how good we have it. We rank 31st in the world in life expectancy, 37th in infant mortality and 34th in maternal morality according to the WHO but what do they know! Avoiding "preventable deaths" we rank 19th out 19 countries. Pay more for the same drugs than any other country, the best always cost more, doesn't it?
The good news if you can make it to age 65 you will most likely live longer than other industrialized country because of universal health insurance afforded to every American over 65, Medicare.
Progressive2 - "If you were in congress which bill would you vote for the Democratic Bill or the Republican bill?"
I would hold my nose and vote for the Democratic version. Concerns about the real cost of it all and what pork might be in it, but it's kind of embarassing having a health care system that costs more and delivers less than that of the major European countries and has an infant mortality rate worse than Cuba's.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/20 91rank.html
Don't forget to say why.
are you one of the pro bloggers ?
Are you a pro blogger? You have been posting a TON over the last few days. If you are not a pro blogger I suggest taking a remedial English class at a local learning annex. If you are a pro blogger the extremely dumb Right Wing persona is working.
NYR - It's pretty much universal here on TDB. You need to learn how to spell and how to write an actual sentence. It's really very hard to understand what you're trying to say except when you're being insulting....and then, you're crystal clear. I wonder why that is. And hang up the idea of pro bloggers; no one cares that you use that as your excuse for being an illiterate hatemonger. Oh, and read your post before you hit submit; check for spelling and typos. That should keep you busy for at least a while. Have a nice day.
The best part is I just got an e-mail from my (Republican) congressman informing me of a teletown hall tonight. In his e-mail, he wrote:
Fiscal conservatives recognize that our health care system needs a tune up, not a trade in. We have put together a better alternative for health care reform that will cut costs; eliminate the waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicare; make insurance portable; allow small businesses to pool together to negotiate coverage; and provide tax credits, not penalties, to businesses that insure their employees.
Not sure how my congressman defines "better" - perhaps by covering more people? Nope. Reducing the deficit more? Nope. Finally excluding pre-existing conditions? Nope.
He also notes that: This bill is the wrong kind of reform and it ignores the millions of Americans who have stood up and said "no" to government run health care.
Clearly, he fails to recognize that the majority of America is for some sort of pubic option and this health care bill does not constitute "government run health care." I'm sick of my representative scaring my district (no lie - one of his tweets from last month: Very disappointing to see Sen Snowe become an enabler for Pelosi/Obama/Reid's plan to nationalize health care & turn America into France).
I wish we had France's health care system. It's cheap, covers everyone and you never ever have to worry about how you're going to pay for your care or if you should put off a procedure or not buy your medications because you need to put food on the table.
People here are so stupid to protect an industry that overcharges and underserves us.
France's healthcare system is under significant financial strain and they are looking at alternatives to a fully government funded program. Not looking at a complete change, just some changes due to increased expenses.
given your name I bet you wish we were France.
clearthinker - Why not be more like France? Not only do they have a much more efficient and effective health system, they are also significantly more energy independent than the USA due to their nuclear power system.
There's some things in the dems healthcare plan that I don't like. There's nothing in the repubs healthcare plan that I do like. At least the dems plan shows how much effort has been put into it whereas the repubs plan looks like the same old rehashed in a slightly different order. And that John Boehner can deliver the repub plan with a straight face speaks volumes about the integrity of that party.
well said.
What ???
I thought a series of BLANK Pages surely would have saved the country more money ...
Maybe, next time, they should imprint the word "NO" onto each of the pages. That should surely produce some savings ...
I think that was your guys trying to be funny
the blank plan definitely would save us money.
Obama LIED at that little talk with Congress, Joe Wilson told the truth.
Relevance? ....to anything at all?
rhonda is essentially a troll, urbancowgirl.
Welcome to being a bit late to the party. I assume it's not your first time.
ha Oh yeah, rhonda? You have any proof that the Deomocrats' bill will cover illegal immigrants, or is Lou Dobbs all the proof you need? ha
OK how will we be verifying that they are American?
By looking at his/her insurance card. Not legal=no card. Do you think you can cut an insurance card out of the back of a cereal box?
Joe Wilson is gay
You say that as if it's a bad thing.
Barny frank is a pedophile supporter
Cool, Newyorker's started hitting the schnapps, and he's inching towards the cliff. No loud noises. Let's see how close he gets today.
Newyorker: Remarks like that are not acceptable in a civil discourse.
Does anyone know how much health insurance companies makes after all bills have been paid?
Lots. So much that the more that $1 million they've contributed to Joe Lieberman over the last two years is a mere pittance.
"johnsmith"; Good Try, but between "That Crook" and his Wife, you're off a couple of 'mil !!!'
Billions!!!
Oh Carole do tell, is it the 2-4% figure that just does not happen to include investment income, bonuses etc.?
Probably in the range of 2%-5%. Back in the day I worked for a Blue plan. The Insurance Commish regulated the amount of money that could be kept in reserves (held to pay expenses for patients that hadn't been submitted to the the plan for payment).
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/insurance-co-profits-good-but-not-breaking -records/
That's what I heard and FactCheck bears that out. Just wonder how a government is going to provide the same kind of health care insurance for less??????????
LOL
" day earlier, UnitedHealth Group had reported its earnings for the second quarter of 2009, which beat analysts' expectations with profit of $859 million. Still, other quarters have been more profitable for the insurer, such as the first quarter of 2008, when profit rang in at $994 million.
We wondered if there was any other evidence to support Obama's statement now that other earnings reports are in. The answer is: not much. Humana Inc. logged a quarterly profit of almost $282 million. But in the third quarter of 2007, it rang up $302 million in profits. Aetna came in at $347 million in profit for the quarter, which lagged behind its $480 million of a year earlier."
Obama was right about one thing: Health insurance premiums have gone up. The average premium for a family with employer-sponsored insurance rose 5 percent from 2007 to 2008, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, and has more than doubled since 1999. Figures for 2009 haven't been calculated yet."
what's your point? that we should feel sorry for these company's that make 200 millions in profits instead of 300 millions?
Really did you had a point at all?
Carole,
What the fact check fails to do is put the profits in proper context.... they should also have included the number of policies lost as well as the number of policy holders dropped, the number of claims made with respect to rejected vs. accepted claims. The simple fact is that with the economy and jobless rates being what they are now means there are a lot less policies out there, so the total profits may be down, but I bet the profit per policy is record breaking
if those evil jerks at United just gave their profit back to the insured they'd save...shat? How much per month? Lets see.. 30 million covered. 900 million profit. thats like $10 per month we are over paying!! Damn them!
actually theo, if i didn't make any claims that month then I would have overpaid by much more than that
Carole Carole Carole....we all know it is against the law to make money.
Strawman alert! I understand that you are half joking, but no one said anything about making money being bad or against the law. Progressive2 simply points out that the insurance companies make hundreds of millions of dollars per quarter.
It IS against the law to refuse to deliver services that have been paid for.
It SHOULD be against the law to exploit the sick for profit.
Brilliant point progressive!
It should be illegal to make a profit if others cannot. What good is the advance of humanity if evil people only want to make an evil profit?
MY insurance premium recently went another 40%. There is nothing in this bill to prevent insurance companies from raising their rates.
nothing will prevent this. IF pre-existing conditions are covered it WILL go up.
This health care bill is going to look alot like medicare. The gov't will only pay so much and the rest will have to be paid by private insurance in the form of supplmental insurance. If you think the government is going to just wipe out insurance companies and the thousands and thousands of employees that work for them your naive. This would be a blow to the economy.
Clearthinker: Do you believe that insurance companies should put profits ahead of providing care that they supposedly are providing? A California non-partsain study concluded that by 2016 insurance premium would be 40 % of the average employees income.So, what is your answer? To allow the insurance companies continue to charge what ever they like. Are you concerned about finding a solution, or are you just having fun be sarcastic
Carole65: The question should be how do we provide affordable health care to all. Senator Rockefeller is working on an amendant that would make insurance companies spend 85-90% on medical costs and prove it.
I have little faith in Sen Rockefeller - I met him at a small meeting held at the home of one of his supporters, and came away unimpressed with the depth of his knowledge. I don't expect much there, but then you never know........
The Republicans sat on their collective asses when they were the majority in Congress and should have worked on a health care plan. Now they present, what I suspect, was a very incomplete plan and got shot down by the CBO. However, in that plan are very valid points - HSA's, collectives, and buying across state lines. At this time of a bad economy and unemployment, these proposals shouldn't be ignored, but built upon. The problem I have with government control is government's unsteller record of containing costs. It's just swapping one expensive program for an equally, if not more, expensive program. The cost of medical is not going to come down - never did, unless there was rationing, and never will.
Collectives would not be large enough to have bargining power to negotiate lower costs from medical providers or drug companies. Buying across state lines is one of the GOP favorite red herrings.The Mccarran-Ferguson Act of 1945 has allowed the insurance companies to be a monoply. Some states have stricter regulations on insurance compnies then the federal gov. that they would like removed. HSA"s Health savings accounts? Would they be sufficent in cases of conditions that are bankrupting Americans? 60% of bankrupties are due to medical costs. Savings accounts does not address the high medical costs many Americans are struggling with. The GOP plan does it address the problem of many senior citizen. Who are unable to fulfil their some or all of their prescriptions because of the high costs of many drugs.
stjam8, but HSA's do work nicely. We never spent what was in our HSA. Furthermore, we instructed our docs. to give us prescriptions that would be just as effective, but cost less. It put our care in our hands and our doctors and save us money
Carole65 Sen. Rockefeller is noted for being as dumb as a box of rocks.
3-4%
No one should be surprised that republicans see nothing wrong with this plan.
Now, let's have a national debate on these two programs. Get one person from each side on national tv to present their case and let the public decide. Does anyone doubt which side would win?
Didn't Obama and the Dems and half the people on this post say the CBO was a "right wing" machine?
Really? post the links don't worry I'll wait
I'm sorry Progressive2, I usually forget everything you say once I've read it.
Yeah stop dithering show the links to back up your pathetic Claim. You got nothing. No facts nothing.
Pathetic. Think next time before you post
your getting paid to
Actually, I think the CBO is just about the only thing not being label liberal, progressive, right wing, conservative, etc.....
C'mon Conservatives !! Lets show these whiney liberals and RINO moderates, lets dare them to take that yucky rotten healthcare that Congress has to put up with, C'mon that'll show em !!
Non medical delivery administrative cost (AMA 2005)
143 billion. that represent 7.2% of the total cost in 2005. Broken out as 14.1 % for private insurance and 5.2% for public insurance (medicaid-7.0% and Medicare 3.1%)
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/478/admincosts.pdf
And the Rethugs say the Democrats are spendthrifts. http://newsy1.wordpress.com
rofl
Obama wants people to wait 6 months after they lose insurance to qualify for a government plan.
Even worse, he does not want to phase in the government plan until 2013!!!!!!!
People with pre-existing conditions will suffer needlessly and die before that time.
They are giving the health insurance companies a few years to continue to raise premiums and fleece Americans!!!!!
Slightly incorrect on both counts.
Regarding the 6month rule - one needs to wait 6months after being dropped by their insurer UNLESS they become "medically eligible" - essentially defined as being let go for a pre-existing condition.
Regarding the 2013 part:
The very first part of the bill is entitled "Title 1: Immediate Reforms"
The first sentence reads:
IN GENERAL.-The Secretary of Health and Human Services (in this section referred to as the ''secretary'') shall establish a temporary national high-risk pool program (in this section referred to as the ''program'') to provide health benefits to eligible individuals during the period beginning on January 1, 2010, and, subject to subsection (h)(3)(B), ending on the date on which the Health Insurance Exchange is established.
So those who really need reform quickly, will get it.
Now, calm down with the exclamation marks. Take a deep breath and stop scaring your fellow Americans.
who pays you the DNC or acorn
Ezra Klein argues the superiority of the House Democratic plan, which, he says, covers more people (about 30 million) and "saves $36 billion more than the Republican plan." However, that Democratic plan doesn't include the costs of the "doctor fix", which apply to the Democratic bill because they use Medicare and Medicaid to expand coverage - which is why the Democratic plan will not save any money at all. But let's say for a moment that we accept that number. Why would we spend an additional $1 trillion to "save" another $36 billion? That would be a waste of 97% of the expenditure.
The House Democratic plan also "saves" money by playing around with pricing (and ignoring their parallel compensation boost), not through actual savings, and even those savings expire in the second decade.
Do the math and you'll see it's a shell game the Democrats are playing..... Earlier today, Rep. John Yarmuth(D-KY) said, "We all know that...We all know taxes and premiums will go up.... We all know a family of four's taxes will go up.... No body has ever said we're gonna bring the costs down ... No body EVER believes we can actually bring costs down ...and the truth is we can't ."
Earlier today, while listening to an interview I heard, "Dems don't lower any costs... The GOP lowers costs by 10%...GOP plan allows competitive pricing to be forced on Insurance Companies and allows Americans to CHOSE. The GOP plan is the bill the president should sign, not the Democrat's plan." ..... Doug Holtzsigan/ CBO Director 1:27PM EST 11/5/09 .
I believe you mean Doug Holtz-Eakin, the FORMER CBO director and McCain advisor. You don't have to mislead to make a point.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
So, as an apparent conservative, Spartann, you will agree that this country needs health care reform? You're not sitting with your fingers in your ears saying, "La la la, I can't hear you," or even worse, screaming at some town hall meeting? Nice to meet you, I wish more conservatives were like you. Here's the deal: I don't care if the Democrats come up with a health care plan, the Republicans, Joe Lieberman, or the man on the moon. It needs to be done.
johnsmith1882.......I agree healthcare is in need of major fixing....i just don't like how the left has approached the problem ...nor what they propose as their "fix it" solution.
The Democrats have COMPLETE control of both houses and the white house. Why criticize the Republicans for something they have no control over? IF the Dems are so confident in their plan then they should pass it and not worry about the Repubs.
clearthinker, you missed the point. Spartann and I can agree that healthcare needs reform, while disagreeing on how to do it. The only people I criticize are those who have their heads in the sand or those who wish to stop the debate by screaming that they are going to kill your grandma. Obviously, the Democrats do not have complete control, and the Republicans are not powerless. Otherwise, there would not still be a debate and the bill would have been passed already. We are going to need a reasonable dialogue between the two sides. This _began_ when the Republicans finally offered their bill, rather than just saying, "No," to the Democrats while having nothing to offer themselves.
A Strong Public Option is important to bring costs down. Without a strong Public Option there is no way to force insurance companies to compete. Public Citizen has a petition to The Congressional Budget Office to score Single Payer H R 676 which be the cheapest way to go.
Ahh, silly conservatives. Love the CBO when it helps, slam it when it doesn't. These folks would be funny if they weren't running the country.
Well, that's fine, now they can go back to the drawing board. The Democrats have been working for months on their various plans and have had any number of reviews by the CBO and other budget types to come up with the Frankenstein's patchwork they've got now. It's time the GOP did some work, too.
They worked on a bill for months with the republicans. After throwing out every thing the republicans didn't like, they said they wouldn't vote for it. And the bill was so watered down the democrats couldn't vote for it either. Dennis Kucinich bill H R 676 is under 100 pages long. It would expand Medicare to all. It is already in Place and would not take years to start it up. Tell your legistors to have the C.B.O. score H R 676 and include it in all discussions on health care reform.
Of course the GOP plan is a farce designed to increase the revenue of the health insurance companies who buy the loyalty of the entire GOP contingent in Congress, blatantly.
Unfortunately, they buy some Democrats as well. The "DINOs."
If the GOP plan covers 83% of people and the Democrat bill covers "12 times as many people"......? Can a math major help me out here? 996% doesn't sound right.
They are probably talking about the size of the incremental increase in people getting coverage. Ergo: if the Republican Plan covers an additional 1000 people, the Dem plan would cover an additional 12,000.
The 83% refers to the total number of Americans covered by the Republican plan, obviously the Dem plan would cover more.
What a shocker! The Republican Party that gave us the Iraq War, record deficits, tax cuts for the rich, and winks and nods to their friends on Wall St. and in the Banks to do whatever they wanted to, this very same Party has come up with a healthcare plan that enriches the already obscene, monopolistic Healthcare Insurance Industry at the expense of the American people!
This is also the Party that gave Big Pharma the right to charge Medicare whatever they wanted, instead of submitting competitive bids that would have saved Medicare hundreds of billions $$$ in drug costs each year!
Whenever the Republican Party says they "have a plan," hold onto your wallets, because they're just con-artists for their rich, criminal corporate patrons.
Sounds rather consistent with the usual Republican abilities...
Thank you.
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