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Trying 9/11 Suspects in New York
In deciding to hold the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in New York City, Attorney General Eric Holder is taking a variety of both political and legal risks, and will be forced to navigate difficult issues relating to intelligence and torture. Because many of the detainees were questioned while under duress, and some testimony against them was elicited through torture, the prosecution faces the possibility that some of the evidence will be thrown out. Holder remains confident that the untainted evidence—including a confession from Mohammed himself—is strong enough to ensure a conviction. The trial of Mohammed, the alleged mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks, and four other suspects accused of plotting the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon is an important step in Obama's plan of eventually closing the Guantanamo Bay detention center, and the administration is running the extreme political risk that the Justice Department will fail to secure a conviction. "To the extent that there are political consequences," said Holder, "I'll just have to take my lumps."
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Trials of terrorists have already been held in NY, VA, SC and Massachusetts with no incidents, and all were convicted and sentenced. Give it a rest.
So when do we prosecute the people who tortured these individuals which has put us in the position we are in.
Too late----the democrats were too afraid to impeach Bush for fear it might hurt their poll ratings.
@Plantagenet
True, they blew their chance. Most were too worried about elections to do the right thing and so they did the wrong thing - nothing. And that's a real tragedy. The Democrats, overall, showed such a lack of integrity. It really undermined the credibility of the entire argument of why torture is intrinsically wrong, war crimes shouldn't have caveats, and why government officials must be held accountable.
Any and all of us, ALL of us, who care about this country and the rule of law should want to see justice done and government officials held responsible for their actions. Regardless of party affiliation, regardless of political ideology we should all want this. But we were denied it. And perhaps the worst part is, certain right-wing partisans are thrilled about it. A "win" for their "side". That is beyond disgusting.
What my post meant was that the trial proposed at this time for NY should indeed go ahead. And the excuses and wailing of the Republican party needs to stop, it is all for show.
cbeenthere - you'd think from the republicans actions that they're actually proud of their cowardice and their lack of faith in the resilience of New Yorkers and Americans - and proud of their lack of conviction in regards to our constitution. They're a quivering pack of pansies, and gosh darn it, they're proud of it!
If "military" trails were going to happen... why didn't they for Bush's ENTIRE Presidency.
Holder is moving to finally exact justice (pressing for the death penalty) and draw closure and the wingers are reacting as if he just declared he was setting them free.
Also, why don't conservatives have ANY faith in the Constitution, the American Criminal justice system or the Prosecutors of NY district. This has to be the most un-American outrage the in resent memory.
It isn't easy being a nation of laws.
Military tribunals were started twice during the Bush presidency. Both times the ACLU sued to stop it, and it tooks years to run through all the liberal's objections and appeals.
It is not easy to get the American Civil Liberties Union to take up an issue, so if they and the liberals objected they had a damn good reason, and it concerned what was good for this country.
When the ACLU delayed the trials of the Islamic mass murderers who killed 3000 Americans on 9/11 it was good for the country?
Which country do you imagine it was good for?.........Saudi Arabia?
Do the math:
Convictions of international and domestic terrorists in this country by federal court: 350
Convictions of international and domestic terrorists by this country by military tribunal: 3
The numbers speak for themselves.
Hi Maui:
Why tell such absurd lies?
Military tribunals have been used for over 200 years to try enemy soldiers and enemy combatants. George Washington used military tribunals. Andrew Jackson used military tribunals. Abraham Lincoln used LOTS of military tribunals. Subsequent presidents used military tribunals.
Why pretend that only 3 people were ever convicted by tribunals, Maui, when your lie is so easily refuted?
Admiral Yamamoto who led the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor deserved more respect than the sinister Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Yamamoto proudly wore his uniform while Khalid snuck through the back alleys of the Casbah in Disguise. It will be up to a jury to find if Khalid is a genuine terrorist or a criminally insane lunatic. The verdict will depend on if he is executed or medicated.
So you're saying undercover U.S. agents and plainclothes officers deserve no respect?
SS what are you talking about?
Well I realize now that I got the term wrong. I meant officers who are undercover, not plainclothes officers. I was talking about the above comment that seemingly defines wearing a uniform as deserving of respect, but operating without a uniform as not.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ, 64 Stat. 109, 10 U.S.C. Chapter 47), is the foundation of military law in the United States.
I see no reason why an act of war against the united states should be tried in civilain courts.
Worse, I believe the administration is illegally using the civilian courts when the military courts are the proper venue and I think they are doing it for political purposes
I don't like it, I don't support it, I don't want the laws of the nation circuvented by this president or any president.
This is the right move. By having them go before a military court, and treating them as enemy combatants just give's them the right to say they are legit fighters. This way they will be treated as just common murdering thugs and nothing more. This shows the world that our justice system is everything we have always said it is, and that these terrorists are nothing more then mass murders.
Actually no.
Only the military court could find that they are unlawful combatants. No such finding is possible in a civilian court because there is no civilian federal law against being an unlawful combatant.
Plant, can't you read? You make my exact point. In a civilian court they will be tried as common criminals, nothing more and nothing less.
Define 'act of war,' please.
If any form of 'terror' is an act of war, that means that every mass killing in the US should be tried in a military court.
Is that what should happen?
Who said any form of terror is an act of war? By having them stand trial in a civilian court we are saying this wasn't an act of war. This was mass murder by nothing more the common criminal thugs, who don't have the right to call themselves enemy combatants.
jaydeekay. If this was the act of one man then I would have to agree with what you ae implying. If all KSM and the 19 did was fly planes into the WTC's you could conceivably go with them being horrendous mass murderers and then KSM could be tried in either FDC but more reasonably Superior Court for Manhattan. But there are other factors. This plan was ostensibly hatched in Afghanistan that was run by the Taliban. The Taliban were giving aid and comfort to al Qaeda(training camps, etc). Also, KSM and al Qaeda and by extension the government of Afghanistan at the time, the Taliban, orchestrated an attack against a military target - the Pentagon which is the command and control HQ of the US military. That in and of itself can be construed as an act of war . So a military tribunal would be more than appropriate.
This trial is a back door way of uncovering what methods were used by the previous administration to obtain information from KSM. It is certainly not about justice for the approximately 3000 persons who were butchered on 9/11/2001. KSM was always going to rot at Gitmo as were the others. I for one don't want the SOB dead, I want him fantasizing about the virgins and when he is about to die, I want extraodinary means used to keep his ass alive. I want him surrounded by pictures night and day of the deaths he helped cause with a tape looped continuously of their names into his cell so that he knows exactly who he helped to kill.
Just remember Holder helped get pardons for the FALN terrorists. Don't be suprised if KSM walks out a free man.
laughorcryagain - "...the military courts are the proper venue" - the military courts have been totally ineffective whereas the federal court system has successfully tried and convicted numerous terrorists. We are a nation of laws - something that was forgotten during the cheney/bush administration. The laws were actually "circuvented" by the former presidents administration. If you stand by our laws, you're taking the wrong position.
You have been watching to much fix noise.
I think you misspelled FOX NEWS #1 and the only real news channel.
They are the mainstream media.
FUC NEWS.
There you go.
I, too, wish this were being done in a military court. However, it was perpetrated by civilians on civilians so I guess civil court is where it will end up.
I guaranty one thing that a-hole Obama will not win NY in 2012.
You're out of your mind, Dems. Which Republican do you think can win New York in 2012, one of the bluest of blue states. Come on, give us a name. I mean as long as you're making guarantees.
Hillary
Ruddy
Demsdisorder
Hillary.
You were right. They are out of there mind.
Every single time an important subject is brought up on the DB, 2 things happen in the comments section:
hate and reason.
The haters vent and everyone else tries to reason with the haters.
To those reasonable and patient people, I say--
You have my admiration and support.
Keep up the good work.
You can't reason with dining room tables.
it was not civilians on civilians it was terror from an organization sponsored by the government of afghanistan on civilians and these people were captured by military personnel on foreign soil in a military action supported by rsolutions in both houses of congress.
this is a military matter.
That's the way I see it loc.
I resent anyone bestowing the privileges and rights that belong to the citizens of the United States onto foreign terrorists. In other words, if you want to enjoy the privileges of America, all you have to do is attack our military in a foreign country. Why do you want to reward these terrorists???? And if you don't think this is a reward, then you have no idea how privileged you are to have the type criminal justice system that we have.
Are you guys that are for them being tried in civilian court OUT OF YOUR MINDS?
I can't help but think this is just a grand political side-show, so the WH can keep us distracted from their inability to deal with unemployment, health care, and two world wars.
Why can't you see it as an issue that has been neglected for far too long, as opposed to blaming this administration?
Bingo...... its all just a smoke screen.
anyone remember when this POS president decided to do a fly by in NY with air force 1. for a photo.
He himself decided this?
you know he did.. its his plane.
Yes, and the Coast Guard was conducting maneuvers on the Potomac River near the Pentagon, and CNN declared shots fired when there were none. Terror is the most thrilling thing in your life next to harassment and Carrie, the conservative porn queen.
Welcome back jihad..
I believe the people of New York have the right to face these people. I just hope that we haven't muddied the waters so much that we are unable to get a conviction.
You are right to be confused. This show trial is sheer insanity. Did they get their Miranda rights? Was a confession coerced? How did the government get its information. This is absurd.
This will last years and cost millions for scum who have already admitted their guilt. I love the way Holder is so confident of a conviction. Did he watch the OJ trial?
"The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed." United States Constitution, Article 3, Section 2.
Think back and remember how the Left wanted the heads of all parties involved when Valerie Plame was outted by journalist Robert Novak. Now those same critics cheer on, as the justice department readies the CIA and its agents for disembowlment in both federal court and the court of public opinion.
For Holder to say, "ONLY political consequences are what's at stake," displays how truly ignorant and naive this administration thinks the American people are .... It's no coincidence, the day after Leslie Grahmn's bill went down 54 to 45, Holder announced the decision to move the detainees to NYC for trial. This has been in the pipe line since before Inauguration Day. Obama and his minyons think of themselves as the 21st Century's "Four Horseman of the Apocalypse." They are willing to destroy anything and anyone in order to create a new world order.
Who is "Leslie Grahmn"? What are "minyons"? You may not be a punk, but you're clearly hysterical.
Hey kid,,,,you smart-ass, "Leslie" is what his wife calls him.... and unlike yourself, I didn't misspell either word you're trying to burn me on.... The word correctly spelled is M-I-N-I-O-N ..( what now appears to be a perfect description of you). ...I didn't chose the word M-I-N-Y-A-N, because that's the quorum of 10 adults needed for Jewish communal worship. .. I hate to break the news to you, but the word M-I-N-Y-O-N is your error alone. Next time grab a dictionary before you try and hobble someone.
Again, clearly, NoPunk is hysterical. He might want to re-read his own post, where he spells "minions" as "minyons" and then either grab a dictionary himself or better, perhaps, head down to WalMart and invest $17 in a new pair of reading glasses.
cvillekid-
Sure looks to me like punk spelled minion as MINYONS, not you, so what is with the denial and transference? It is endemic to this group, and laughable that they pull this. Fact is, they cannot put a post together without consulting a dictionary and they still manage to blow it. Glasses are not the problem, and no re-reading required, as they are right and the world even Mirriam-Webster is wrong.
Really, the wife calls her husband Leslie?
Hey cvillekid...don't bust a gut there .... Hey WTF, even I couldn't believe I misspelled the damn word.... but that doesn't change the fact you and your ass-cheek cousin cheenthere can only comment on grammatical slip-ups... seems the only "substance" folks like you can ever comment on is what's going up your nose or in your arm...........not for nothing, but the 2 of you do give an impression your more than just pen pals..... I bet you both fancy the color pink too.
I was a punk.........The Damned was bloody good.
Personally i think that most punk after 1984 is crap.
How many straw men can we line up to help prove a point?
Imnopunk Ignore those two idiots the only reason no-it-all cheen and cville go after yours and everybody ele's comments they have nothing to bring to the table' Do you expect then to stick up for obama, they are running out of excuse's. Leave the nit-wits alone and ignore them it's all they have left is grammar and spelling. PATHETIC.
Funny... "no-it-all"...
"No" anything at all?
2010/2012 will be are Armageddon. Im looking forward to putting Obama on trial for crimes against this Nation.
Actually, the Falange is always looking for new recruits, but only if they have the right stuff--that special mix of violent urges and apocalyptic hysteria--and with this seditious post Dems has announced his candidacy.
I''m still waiting for Bush and Dick to go on trial. With those two geniuses in charge I wonder why these guys haven't been tried yet.
Why have they left another mess for Obama to clean up.
OOOWWW, I agree that the Repubs should have tried these terrorists, already. That question is being asked of the Repubs. Rove gave a pathetic answer this week. He said that they were held back by political pressure.
To me that's just BS. If they felt that politics was the paramount issue, and not the safety of America and Americans, then they haven't a juevo among them.
Now, because of the pathetic inaction of the previous admin., we have a new admin. doing the most inane and insane thing by bringing terrorists to New York to try them in our criminal justice system, putting New Yorkers at serious risk and bestowing the privileges of American citizenship on foreign nationals, captured on the field of battle. Insanity, absolute and utter insanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The techniques used to extract information out of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed are more sophisticated than water boarding. Science has made it possible to probe the brain and have it speak in Arabic. The past of Khalid is fully known and his death by execution is certain.
Far too much protest has been raised by a few Republicans trying to be sensational and dramatic.
The trials should be held in New York. If there is sufficient evidence, there will be convictions. If they are innocent, give set them off in a raft off the coast of Saudi Arabia.
You're right square - there's much too much protesting by the republicans, and too little faith in the resilience of New Yorkers and Americans, and too little faith in our laws and our constitution. It's pretty cowardly, they're cringing like school girls.
a terrorist act by an organization sponsored by the taliban government of afghanistan is an act of war
a resolution authorizing wacts of war to capture terrorists is an act of war
the capture of terrorists by the us military on foreign soil executing the congressional resolution is an act of war
it is all a war and should be treated like one
and personally, after watching the towers fall, getting out of the city alive, explaining it to my terrified wife and kids, seeing the little girl in church who lost her daddy, seeing the cars for weeks at the train stations because their owners were dead, breathing the soot filled air of manhattan for months afterwards
personally, i dont want to see the show trial, i want the military to fight the war
Fine don't follow the trials, but go enlist first and specify a combat arm like maybe ask for MOS 11B30.Personally I don't give a shit what you want.Except maybe I'd want you to change your diapers if I were ever going to have to be in your presence. That bowel-loosening fear leaves a stench.
" Now" lets hope the Bush and Cheney regime get put on the witness stand, and get the " WAR CRIMES " charges against humanity they deserve, for all the blood of our troops are on there hands and the blood of innocent women children,This dictatorship regime along with FOX NEWS who changes or DISTORTS the news for ones political gain and thats the Re-publican party who dictates as we seen in NY23 who tryed to force a candidate on the rest of party,The Evangelics and Conservatives have had enough of the Dictatorship policys of the last 8years which the OLD GuARD of the party wants to continue,Evangelics the old has gone and the new has come you are new creations in christ jesus, ENOUGH break yourselves "FREE" from the bondage of the old guard of the Re-publican party its "TIME" to continue the fight and stay with the third party , If God is for you who can be against you , "NO" one stand firm and let the truth be your guide, " NO LONGER " will the Lords children be dictated by the OLD GUARD of the Re-publican party be Independent have your own mind that God has given you, Let his "WORD" be your guide " NOT " some old farts in a smoke filled room chosing who you should support ........! IT MUST STOP in the name of Jesus the christ
Eric |FALN} Holder has a vendetta with the Bush administration that's what this trial in NY is all about. A lot of op-ed articles are claiming the same argument. This trial has a lot to do with Eric's CIA investigation..
Yeah, winston, it was much better during the cheney/bush regime when laws were irrelevant, and the constitution was just a gd piece of paper.
hey donquijoterocket
its not fear, its war, there is a military justice system on the books
that is the code of law that applies to these people.
Hi Case 1234.. The liberal demoblobs controlled congress for the two years prior to nov2008. They continually brought up reasons why we could not use military tribunals?? It.s like barneyF and Dodd not remembering they FORCED banks to lend into red zones.. and when all those loans went south it was Bush,s fault?.Hey really would you want to be president? The current anointed one has a crisis every friday- Iran, N Korera, Obamacare screwup(never mention tort reform), $24,000 each for clunkers, Windturbine stimulus (to be built in China).Afganistan dither, Terrorist attack at ft hood on his watch..And the latest by black panther lover atty general- terrorist love in NYC-yup they get all the rights of a citizen..Cost?? I will bet 30-75 million EACH. Hey it,s a lot easier to lie your way into the White House than to run the place. Remember no pork-all bills on the internet-transparancy?? What a disaster. No I did not like bush- I just want a real american for president.. .
1234.. In open court the defense rightly will want full disclosure of how evidence is obtained.. Did you watch people jump from the towers?? Did you see rescue running INTO the towers just before they collapsed?? Full disclosure will play into Holders/Panther/Sorros hands-make us look bad.possibly expose sources.a heyday for radical Islam.. Hey my sentance for these 5.Top floor of a building being blown down with a big clock on the wall ticking down to detonation. I sir will gladly press the button......
Hey Millions served... Great legalese BUT these are not U. S citizens, not on US soil till Comrad Holder brings them here. I sure wish they hijack the chartered plane bringing them here and fly it into Holders lap!
solomon . . . "The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made . . . between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects." - United States Constitution, Article 3, Section 2.
It's not just "Great legalese", it's the Constitution. Isn't this, the Union and our law, the thing you're trying to preserve?
Cbeen there.. when you catch a terrorist on foreign soil.. And information is extracted..by any means.. (not like Mr Pearl or others beheaded by these nice guys).. keep them out of the U.S. where they have a right to a civilian court. This is Conrad Obama and conrad Holders way of embaressing G.Bush.. What a waste / it will further weaken the C I A, Remember we now have our second Terrorist attack under Conrads watch.. Little Rock- Ft Hood.. whats next??
Too bad Comrade.
solomon - what are you so afraid of? why do you have so little faith in our laws? why do you place so much faith in the ineffective military tribunals - they haven't been successful. Whereas there have been numerous successful prosecutions and convictions of terrorists in the federal court system. Their track record is much better than that of the military courts. BTW, bush doesn't need any help being "embaressing" - he managed to do a fine job all by himself.
notfooled, i have no doubt this show trial will result in convictions
I oppose this because puts a military case in a civilian court for political reasons.
U.S. Laws provide for military justice, Obama is circumventing that law deliberately.
what hole is Biden hiding in?
Knee jerk GnOPers. They will object to anything the President, THEIR president's administration does. Period.
If we insisted on military tribunals, on the grounds where the defendants were illegally tortured etc, tried in secret, just imagine the propaganda the terrorists would have.
Bringing them to NY brings legitimacy to the proceedings.
Thank you.
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