Mahmoud Zahar

Sep 4, 2005 8:00 PM EDT

As Israel completed its historic withdrawal of Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip last week, the streets of Palestinian Gaza were already filling up with neon green banners from the Islamist group Hamas, declaring: gaza is the beginning. Both Israel and Washington consider Hamas a terrorist group, in large part because of its endorsement of suicide bombings.

But the organization's network of social services makes it popular among Palestinians, and President Mahmoud Abbas believes that getting Hamas involved in the political process may moderate the militants--even though the group will likely pose a stiff challenge to his own Fatah party in January's legislative polls. NEWSWEEK's Kevin Peraino spoke with Hamas cofounder Mahmoud Zahar in Gaza City last week. Excerpts:

PERAINO: Some Israeli officials warn that after the withdrawal, Gaza will become "Hamastan."

ZAHAR: It should be Hamastan. Why not? We are not corrupt. We are serving the poorer classes. We are defending our land. It should be Hamastan!

What went through your mind as you watched the television images of the withdrawal?

It's a play. It's nothing. Everybody thinks it's nonsense. The Israeli media says it's nonsense. We are happy. Not because of their weeping. We are happy because they are leaving. The real weeping was among our people, who lost their people, who lost their houses, who lost their trees. This is the real weeping.

If somebody like Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi wanted to come to Gaza, and it were up to you, would you let him?

He will not come. We are not in need of Zarqawi, Al Qaeda or others. We have our own style.

What about other foreign jihadists now fighting Americans in Iraq? Would you welcome them?

If [a foreign fighter] will be here, he will not be a member of Hamas. If he came, and he ran an operation against Israel, he will be outside Hamas.

But it would be OK for him to be here? Would you welcome him as a hero for fighting Americans in Iraq?

How are you going to prevent him from coming here? It's a theoretical question. We are welcoming anybody who will make an end for the occupation of Iraq. Do you believe this American occupation is a noble phenomenon? It's a dirty thing.

Some Western officials have talked about President George W. Bush's "theory of redemption"--the belief that engaging groups like Hamas could moderate them. Do you get the sense that the United States is trying to engage you?

[Laughs] It's not the United States. It's the whole European [community]. But containment will not succeed with Hamas. I don't trust the term "moderate." We are already moderate. But if people believe we will be moderate in the Western style, or a pro-Israeli style--that's not moderate. That's corruption.

Some Hamas officials insist they don't want to win a majority of seats in Parliament--that Hamas would prefer to avoid the responsibility of actually governing.

People are going to choose us not to be a decoration, a radical decoration in the Parliament. We will be the servant of the Palestinian people. That cannot be achieved if we are a minority. But if we are a minority, I think we will be a very strong minority.

How long do you think this current truce will last?

Until the end of 2005.

Does Hamas still stand by the tactic of suicide bombing?

We were forced to do so [in the past]. When we reached the conclusion that nothing could be achieved by peaceful [means], we were forced to do [it]. Believe me, if it is not allowed in Islam, and if your goal cannot be achieved as an open goal, [then] it's justified. It is not allowed in Islam to drink alcohol. But if you are forced to do it, you have to do it.

Could you ever see Hamas involved in a peace plan that would allow two states side by side, Israel and Palestine?

Nobody on the Israeli side, from the extreme right to the extreme left, will withdraw from Jerusalem. At the same time, believe me, nobody on the Pales-tinian side, in the Arab and Muslim world, will accept keeping Jerusalem under occupation. [The Palestinians] lost everything [after Oslo]. We are not the PLO. We are not going to repeat a failed [process].

A lot of people in the international community will now say: "Israel pulled out of Gaza. Everybody saw the sacrifices they made." What sacrifices will Hamas make for the peace process?

[Laughs] Israel occupied our land, killed our people. And now they are sacrificing? It's a funny thing. It's a funny thing.

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Kevin Peraino has been the Jerusalem bureau chief at Newsweek since January 2005. He reports from throughout the Middle East, filing regularly from Israel, the Palestinian territories, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq. His tenure has coincided with one of the region's most tumultuous periods in recent history; stories have included Lebanon's "Cedar Revolution," Israel's historic withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, the incapacitation of former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, the rise of the Islamist group Hamas, civil war and revolution in Gaza, and Israel's summer conflict with Lebanon's Hizbullah organization.

In 2003, Peraino covered the American invasion of Iraq, where he was embedded with the U.S. Army's Third Infantry Division. He rode in a Bradley fighting vehicle from the first thrust across the Kuwaiti border to the division's arrival, under fire, at Saddam International Airport. His dispatches contributed to Newsweek's being honored with the most prestigious award in magazine journalism -- the 2004 National Magazine Award for General Excellence. He also filed regular reports from the front for National Public Radio.

The following year, Peraino was a member of Newsweek's Campaign 2004 Special Project Team, based in Washington, D.C. In that position he followed the campaign of President George W. Bush, reporting for more than a year from behind the scenes for the special issue that Newsweek published two days after Election Day. The project won a 2005 National Magazine Award for Single-Topic Issue. It was later published as a book titled Election 2004: How Bush Won and What You Can Expect in the Future, by Public Affairs press. It became a national bestseller.

Peraino appears regularly as a guest commentator on television and radio programs to discuss his stories, including: CNN's "Larry King Live," NBC's "Today," MSNBC's "Hardball with Chris Matthews," MSNBC's "The News with Brian Williams," Fox News's "O'Reilly Factor," C-SPAN's "Washington Journal" and many others.

A 1998 graduate Northwestern University, Peraino has also written for the Wall Street Journal Europe, New York magazine and Hamptons magazine. He is a native of Ridgefield, Conn.

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