'Russia Should Follow Georgia's Lead'

The world is divided between those who admire Georgian President Saakashvili's valiant attempts to bring democracy to his country and those who believe that he almost brought the world to the brink of war with Russia over the summer. Last week, Saakashvili attended the opening of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, and explained his position to NEWSWEEK's Lally Weymouth. Excerpts:

WEYMOUTH: Do you think you miscalculated over the summer when you fired on Russian troops in South Ossetia?
SAAKASHVILI: No, I think since last November the attack was in the making by the Russians. That's when they started the real military buildup. We warned Europe and the West that a Russian attack was foreseeable sometime in early fall.

A lot of Americans are apprehensive about getting into a fight with Russia.
We never wanted to draw America [into a conflict]. What we wanted to do was to enroll America and Europe in trying to avoid it.

How do you plan to work out your relationship with Russia now?
I think the main thing we should do now is to show nationalistic elements in the Kremlin that their two strategic goals of deposing the Georgian government and taking over the energy resources from the Central Asian [region] are not going to work. We can never outmeasure Russia in terms of military equipment, but we certainly can compete with them in terms of principles, our economic and political systems and show them the advantage of freedom and democracy.

Georgia can be a successful model of democracy?
Absolutely ...

Until this war happened, I heard many liberal-minded Russians say that Russia should emulate Georgia's economic model and Georgia's fight with corruption … Ultimately, it is not Georgia that should surrender to Russia. It is Russia that should follow Georgia's and other democracies' leads in liberalizing and opening up its economy.

You think they have backed off?
They backed off from their two strategic goals: deposing us and cutting off energy supplies for Europe.

Now Russia has issued passports [to ethnic Russians] in the Crimea?
They are doing in the Crimea exactly the same thing they have done in Georgia. I think that if they can get away with annexing Georgia's territories they will try …

Russia will try to annex South Ossetia?
They already have decreed annexation by [giving them] so-called independence. It is certainly not independence—from my point of view, it is annexation. If they get away with this effort, they will go after Crimea. For nationalists in Russia, the Russian Empire will not be back until Crimea is back.

So is Russia ' s eye on Ukraine now?
Vladimir Putin has made it no secret that he especially wants two people's heads: that of [Ukrainian President] Victor Yuschenko and myself. He always prides himself that he never gives up on his demands. Ukraine is a real democracy, and that is something that makes it very special and different from Russia.

How important is NATO membership to you?
It is very important, but it is part of the overall agenda of becoming closer to European structures and Western alliances. We have sacrificed a lot for that, and we will never give up this dream.

But NATO membership means extending a nuclear umbrella. So there is some concern.
I think we are in a situation where NATO has to reinvent itself.

Do you think that if you forgot about NATO membership, Russia would leave you alone?
It is not about NATO. It is about two conflicting systems, two conflicting ideas, two conflicting ways of life. Russia genuinely resents the fact that Georgia and Ukraine are democracies and have free societies.

What do you want now from the West?
Money is important but will have a short-term effect. What we really need is access to markets and political backing. We can still be successful, provided people are not scared to invest in my country.

Reportedly, you talked to John McCain all during the August crisis.
I did talk to McCain. But I talked as much to [Joe] Biden. Biden came to Tbilisi and stayed with us for a few days just before his nomination. And after his nomination he called me very often. And I was called many times by Senator Obama, and a few hours after her nomination, Governor Palin called me. So it has been very bipartisan.

Right now our financial crisis is so large that everything else, including the election, seems extremely unimportant.
In the end, I think America will emerge stronger than most of the world's economies. Because it is still the biggest economy and it is founded on better principles that most of the other economies.

Did you underestimate Putin ' s willingness to attack because he was at the Olympics?
No, I think that he did it on purpose during the Olympics. This was the worst time that a small country could have been attacked. For us, the main defense was publicity. The worst time for publicity is during the Olympic Games in summer, when most of the major decision makers are gone for holidays. That was a total nightmare for us.

Do you think Russia is really aiming to overthrow you?
I think so, but they are not going to achieve it. Their best chance was last August.