Free press may be silenced in Russia, but that has not stopped Vladimir Putin’s minions from defending him to media outlets outside the country. On Thursday, convicted Russian agent and Donald Trump enthusiast Maria Butina tried to convince BBC Radio host Nick Robinson that it was Ukraine’s own military raining bullets and mortars over the country, not Russian troops. When asked if the war was going to plan, she said, “Yes absolutely. I do trust my president as well as the majority of Russians do.” When asked if she thinks Ukrainian President Zelensky—who is Jewish—is a Nazi, she said, “According to his actions, absolutely.” Robinson then countered, “He’s Jewish, his great-grandfather died fighting the Nazis as part of Russia, I put it to you again that he's a bit of an unlikely Nazi.” Butina replied, “You know I do believe that Nazism is not about just one nation, it’s about killing, murdering, torturing, alienation, based on their race, their gender., their nationality, country of origin and what we see today.” Robinson shot back then that by that definition, Putin is a Nazi. “Russia is not bombing citizens,” she countered. “Russian military troops actually are having humanitarian corridors.”

The two bantered again about who is bombing Ukraine, and Robinson, clearly aghast, pushed further, as Butina insisted Russia was not bombing civilian targets. The interview ended with Robinson’s final comment. “What on earth does the sentence ‘No one wants civilians to get hurt’ mean in Moscow?”