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Cheney's Role Deepens
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Former NBC News investigative producer Robert Windrem reports that the vice president’s office suggested waterboarding an Iraqi prisoner who was suspected of knowing about a relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam.
Robert Windrem, who covered terrorism for NBC, reports exclusively in The Daily Beast that:
*Two U.S. intelligence officers confirm that Vice President Cheney’s office suggested waterboarding an Iraqi prisoner, a former intelligence official for Saddam Hussein, who was suspected to have knowledge of a Saddam-al Qaeda connection.
*The former chief of the Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer, in charge of interrogations, tells The Daily Beast that he considered the request reprehensible.
*Much of the information in the report of the 9/11 Commission was provided through more than 30 sessions of torture of detainees.
At the end of April 2003, not long after the fall of Baghdad, U.S. forces captured an Iraqi who Bush White House officials suspected might provide information of a relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein’s regime. Muhammed Khudayr al-Dulaymi was the head of the M-14 section of Mukhabarat, one of Saddam’s secret police organizations. His responsibilities included chemical weapons and contacts with terrorist groups.
Two senior U.S. intelligence officials at the time tell The Daily Beast that the suggestion to waterboard an Iraqi prisoner came from the Office of Vice President Cheney.
“To those who wanted or suspected a relationship, he would have been a guy who would know, so [White House officials] had particular interest,” Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraqi Survey Group and the man in charge of interrogations of Iraqi officials, told me. So much so that the officials, according to Duelfer, inquired how the interrogation was proceeding.
In his new book, Hide and Seek: The Search for Truth in Iraq, and in an interview with The Daily Beast, Duelfer says he heard from “some in Washington at very senior levels (not in the CIA),” who thought Khudayr’s interrogation had been “too gentle” and suggested another route, one that they believed has proven effective elsewhere. “They asked if enhanced measures, such as waterboarding, should be used,” Duelfer writes. “The executive authorities addressing those measures made clear that such techniques could legally be applied only to terrorism cases, and our debriefings were not as yet terrorism-related. The debriefings were just debriefings, even for this creature.”
Duelfer will not disclose who in Washington had proposed the use of waterboarding, saying only: “The language I can use is what has been cleared.” In fact, two senior U.S. intelligence officials at the time tell The Daily Beast that the suggestion to waterboard came from the Office of Vice President Cheney. Cheney, of course, has vehemently defended waterboarding and other harsh techniques, insisting they elicited valuable intelligence and saved lives. He has also asked that several memoranda be declassified to prove his case. (The Daily Beast placed a call to Cheney’s office and will post a response if we get one.)
Without admitting where the suggestion came from, Duelfer revealed that he considered it reprehensible and understood the rationale as political—and ultimately counterproductive to the overall mission of the Iraq Survey Group, which was assigned the mission of finding Saddam Hussein’s WMD after the invasion.
“Everyone knew there would be more smiles in Washington if WMD stocks were found,” Duelfer said in the interview. “My only obligation was to find the truth. It would be interesting if there was WMD in May 2003, but what was more interesting to me was looking at the entire regime through the slice of WMD.”
But, Duelfer says, Khudayr in fact repeatedly denied knowing the location of WMD or links between Saddam’s regime and al Qaeda and was not subjected to any enhanced interrogation. Duelfer says the idea that he would have known of such links was “ludicrous".
This proposed use of enhanced interrogation techniques, or torture, in Iraq was not the only time these methods were actually used to derive information for a purpose other than the stated one—to derive intelligence about imminent threats to the United States following the 9/11 attacks.
An extensive analysis I conducted as a reporter for NBC News of the 9/11 Commission’s Final Report and its monograph on terrorist travel showed that much of what was reported about the planning and execution of the terror attacks on New York and Washington was based on the CIA's interrogations of high-ranking al Qaeda operatives who had been subjected to "enhanced interrogation techniques."
More than one-quarter of all footnotes in the 9/11 Report refer to CIA interrogations of al Qaeda operatives subjected to the now-controversial interrogation techniques. In fact, information derived from the interrogations was central to the 9/11 Report’s most critical chapters, those on the planning and execution of the attacks.
The NBC analysis also showed—and agency and commission staffers concur—there was a separate, second round of interrogations in early 2004, specifically conducted to answer new questions from the 9/11 Commission after its lawyers had been left unsatisfied by the agency’s internal interrogation reports.
Human-rights advocates, including Karen Greenberg of New York University Law School’s Center for Law and Security and Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights, have said that, at the least, the 9/11 Commission should have been more suspect of the information derived under such pressure.
Commission executive director Philip Zelikow (later counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice) admitted, "We were not aware, but we guessed, that things like that were going on. We were wary…we tried to find different sources to enhance our credibility." (Zelikow testified before the Senate on Wednesday, May 13, that he had argued in a 2005 memo that some of the tactics used on suspected terrorists violated the constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment.)
A former senior U.S. intelligence official told me the Commission never expressed any concerns about techniques and even pushed for a second round of interrogations in early 2004, as the Commission was finishing up its work. The second round of interrogations sought by the Commission involved more than 30 separate interrogation sessions.
"Remember," the intelligence official said, "the Commission had access to the intelligence reports that came out of the interrogation. This didn't satisfy them. They demanded direct personal access to the detainees and the administration told them to go pound sand.”
"As a compromise, they were allowed to let us know what questions they would have liked to ask the detainees. At appropriate times in the interrogation cycle, agency questioners would go back and re-interview the detainees. Many of [those] questions were variants or follow-ups to stuff previously asked."
At least four operatives whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators critical information as a way to stop being "tortured." Those claims came during their hearings in the spring of 2007 at the U.S. military facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
For Duelfer, an experienced interrogator, the details now being laid out in CIA and White House memoranda and in congressional hearings cannot be justified. While admitting that the interrogators faced enormous pressure in 2002 and 2003, he said he had problems with the overall strategy.
“Interrogation is about two humans who are face to face, sweat to sweat. Is your hand going to hit them?” he notes. “That’s a relationship that becomes very deep. If you are going to reach someone at an intellectual or emotive level, it’s hard to see how you can do that and still be the person who accosts that person. I don’t know how to do that.”
Robert Windrem is a Senior Reserach Fellow at the NYU Center on Law and Security. For three decades, he worked as a producer for NBC News. During that time, he focused on issues of international security, strategic policy, intelligence and terrorism. He is the winner of more than 40 national journalism awards for his work in print, television, and online journalism, including a Columbia-duPont Award, mostly for his work on international security issues.
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Robert Windrem is a Senior Reserach Fellow at the NYU Center on Law and Security. For three decades, he worked as a producer for NBC News. During that time, he focused on issues of international security, strategic policy, intelligence and terrorism. He is the winner of more than 40 national journalism awards for his work in print, television, and online journalism, including a Columbia-duPont Award, mostly for his work on international security issues.
Bottled Waterboarding
Robert Windrem is a Senior Reserach Fellow at the NYU Center on Law and Security. For three decades, he worked as a producer for NBC News. During that time, he focused on issues of international security, strategic policy, intelligence and terrorism. He is the winner of more than 40 national journalism awards for his work in print, television, and online journalism, including a Columbia-duPont Award, mostly for his work on international security issues.
If this is true, then 'enhanced techniques' were not used only in emergencies to protect the American public. It was used to justify the political position of the previous administration.
Cruel. Inhuman. Despicable. Cheney.
Well said.
I think that should be a new adjective! "Cheney"
i.e. "Our boss said that we weren't getting our year-end bonus this year."
"Man, that's so Cheney."
The irony is... I say that already. "How cheney"... refers to anything vicious, self-centered and unforgiving. "How bush"... refers to dumb as a stump and all the class of a trailor park.
While former President Bush just allowed Cheney to push these despicable things, that does not lessen either his and Cheney's culpability for this gruesome behavior that is the shame of our country. If this torture was so very successful, we must then conclude that their bumbling conduct of the war is responsible for the fact that Iraq has still not assumed responsibility for its own future and Afghanistan is still in the throes of insurgency. On both war fronts, failure after failure in spite of these claims that this torture helped the war effort so much. Cheney and Bush remind me of what my mom used to accuse all 5 of the kids in our family who always stuck together ie "One lies and gthe other sticks to it". But these chilling lies by the Cheney-Bush regime are coming unravelled and soon they will all be out in the open for all Americans and the world to reject. And then, God help these two criminals.
The fascist confuses reality.
The poem "Feature / Benefit " comes to mind.
Wear this gold star, Jew
So we can see who you are,
Board this rail road car,
Your campaign for president
is going to Babi Yar.
The poem was inspired by FCC attorneys.
During World War II the NAzis tortured people, looking for confessions. The Stalinists, (read "Darkness At Noon") did the same thing.
Book him Dano!
I look forward to his daughter, screaming in Court Bush made him do it!
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Exactly!
Cheney is a sneaky, creeepy, secretive, Geneva Convention-breaking manipulator.
So glad he & Bush are not in positions of power anymore.
Dangerous and destructive ..
Cheney and Bush were living in a fantasy world for 8 years; Part of that fantasy was a connection between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. But Saddam Hussein was considered an infidel by Osama bin Laden,
for maitaining a secular Muslim state. For that sin, had bin Laden - or any of bin Laden's Alqaeda allies - met with Saddam, they'd have bave killed him.
So there is no way that Abu Zubdaydah - or any other of the zealots were captured - would have given the torturers such a sacrilegious idea. And religion, particularly the radical version of Islam practiced by such as Aby Zubaydah and Al Zarquawi, was at the root of their being and cause.
Not surprising at all. Cheney's a creep and I don't put anything past him...
What a surprise. I only fear the further evil that will be revealed in time. And Dick Cheney will be at the center of it.
The sad reality of all this is that the United States is no different than all the other countries who torture human beings. The ends do not justify the means and never will. Even sadder is that those responsible will not be held accountable - adding an even darker layer to the last eight years.
We don't know that "those responsible will not be held accountable". This falls under the Department of Justice, and they are not finished with the investigation yet.
Get serious. Obama is a Bush sycophant. The way he sounds now on torture, he could have been a Bush staffer. Nothing is going to happen to the Bush era war criminals. The Bushies must have obtained a huge amount of dirt with their illegal wiretaps on ALL Americans because the Democrats are STILL afraid to challenge them. The Democrats are now complicit in the Bush crimes because they are refusing to act. With Obama, we got a pig in a poke.
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cheney's response on the sunday talk show makes it pretty clear who was really running the country and who was just rubber stamping decisions if that. more and more is coming out to confirm what already has been suggested; mainly, we tortured to gain "useful intelligence" to gin up the war cheney et. al had planned all along, regardless of 9/11. let the good ol' "we pander to your fears, prejudice and ignorance" gop continue to defend torture to their peril!
I agree w/ you. That "Face The Nation" moment told volumes in a few awkward stutters. I guess all of the "Cheney is really running the country" jokes were true after all. Read Paul Begala's post on Huffington Post yesterday for an "in your face" response to "Chicken hawk" Cheney. By the way, if history is any guide, and God forbid there is another attack early in this Administration, it will have certainly been PLANNED during Bush/Cheney (or I guess Cheney/Bush)
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No one is going to take you seriously until you turn off that caps lock key, my friend.
I agree with Impublications that the Huffington Post article by Paul Begala was a MUST READ. I bookmarked it yesterday because it was so good. Here's the link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/mr-cheney-you-did-not-kee_b_20301 3.html
It's important that the CIA release their reports of "whom" on the Dem side was in attendance of so-called "enhanced interrogation" - give up Dems.
You're caught. You too voted for such activity and stop the "smoke."
Jack the bill to ban torture was VETO'd by Bush.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN11636309
Bush had the opportunity to ban torture instead he chose to add his name
to the worlds worst sadists Stalin and Hitler.
Interesting partisan response JackJack. Sounds awefully defensive. Are you not open to the possibilty that Cheney did something wrong without taking it personally?? Is this really a right vs. Left issue or wrong vs right?? It's the latter JackJack, the latter!!
Jack,
You STILL don't get it, do you? Nobody cares what party a criminal belongs to. When the police arrest someone suspected of murder, they don't ask for their voter registration card. Guilty people should be prosecuted and punished regardless of party affiliation.
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"Nobody cares what party a criminal belongs to..." Um, unless the crime is in the *name* of the party and *becomes* an issue the party *defends*, and is performed with an eye toward *justifying* *other* party crimes. Then, the party issue becomes part of it.
Even if they where told which is up to conjecture they where held accountably under the "States Secrecy Act" and it certainly wasn't put to a vote. As it was pointed out when put to a vote Bush vetoed it.
And if they knew and are denying it at least they're ashamed of it.
So, given Cheney's top-down order to find some intel to justify the invasion of a patsy nation, and considering his very public re-emergence now, concerning the issue of "okay kids, let's define 'torture', and have a roundtable discussion about its effectiveness" , this all begs a question.
Why?
As in why is he sooo interested in the issue?
He is too arrogant to ever consider that he could be imprisoned for his involvement. He is too confident in his innate brilliance, and ability to keep people looking in the wrong places, to ever seriously consider that he may be vulnerable in this area. Afterall, a former Vice President always has that Ace In the Hole - acting in the interests of national security. Bulletproof!!!
I think he is throwing up flak. Just as his public "feud" with Colin Powell; nothing but flak. So, again, the question is why is the man dispensing so much flak? And what could be his motivation?
Perhaps it is as simple as "follow the money".
We know, without a doubt that Haliburton was one of, if not the chief beneficiary of the Iraq invasion. We know that Cheney ran that show before becoming a V.P. for Poppy Bush, and it is not too big a stretch to suspect that he has been rewarded handsomely by Haliburton for his steering of lucrative government contracts to them.
If I were a betting robot, I would put some money that many of those "unaccounted for" billions from the Iraq wars (plural), have somehow made their way into Mr. Cheney's pockets.
But, where could he hide such numbers?
We are not speculating about millions here, I am suggesting big bucks! There are just a few places in the world where these types of dollars can be hidden; Switzerland, Cayman Islands, Bermuda come to mind.
Perhaps the most powerful country in history should figure out a way to pry open the secrecy of these nations.
In any event, Mr. Sneer, is hiding mucho moola, and he is delighted that everybody seems to be focusing on everything else, except that mucho moola!
Well done. He's laughing all the way to the bank... in Dubai.
Well done, indeed Robot. By the way, while we are in there, let's look into the hidden holdings of the Goldman boys. I bet there is a virtual conduit of funds slipping directly into those Swiss bank accounts of Henry Paulson and his ilk.
In fact, since the only reason for the existence of these private, and offshore bank accounts is to hide money from the tax-man, there is more of a justification for an invasion than phantom weapons of mass destruction.
But, it's just a dream, just a dream (to borrow from R.E.M.), too many dictators, and other thieves across the globe have these secret accounts for them to ever be revealed!
Hockey doggy!
I see the gang is all here and we all agree.
Cheney is a fascist. On that issue there cannot be any doubt.
I would give Henry Paulson the benefit of the doubt, though, and before seizing all of his assets and freezing his bank accounts, ask, 'What did you do to earn six hundred million dollars?' (You may safely assume his answer would be insufficient).
I'm skeptical.
But anyway, for tax purposes, America doesn't have to "pry open" these other countries. We just need to state that tax havens, for tax purposes, do not exist. Declaring you earned a billion in the Grand Cayman this year? Fine, we'll count that as America for tax purposes.
Punxsutawny dick: comes out to save own butt.
this great patriot-
( see http://tinyurl.com/oymce7 ),
privatized the government, to make tens of millions $ in personal gain.
for those still deluded in the Heartland, just Google:
Bohemian Grove, for annual shenanigans.
arrested development at the frat house.
So... who is going to step up and defend this douche?
Can anyone?
As has been said all along, it was Cheney wagging the dog all along.
I don't know why this is surprising anyone. Read Tyler Drumheller's book, On the Brink. He stood up to Cheney and the Bush administration when it took real guts to do so. Why didn't Duelfer stand-up when it was unpopular to do so? The administration and top leadership in the U.S. government knew from the beginning that they weren't going to find WMDs and torture was the interrogation method of choice condoned by the Cheney/Bush team.
Apparently, only people who are related to Cheney, The Sith Lord, are willing to defend him (his daughter, Liz). Real credible, huh?
It was a horrible idea to cross Colin Powell... Powell knows EVERYTHING and the drip, drip is about to turn into a full-blown broken pipe. Good. It's about time this country learned the truth about what the Bush-Cheney Administration did.
I am right with you on this, Wench.
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OOOOOOH, the Vice President who was a former Secretary of Defense is involved in national security decisions? Are you kidding me? Slap me with a giant fish, NOW he MUST be as evil as my ignorant preconceived notions of him have told me all along! I never suspected that the Vice President was actually doing his job! This is terrible! Scandal! Impeach! Stone the bastard! Haliburton! Covert Agent! Bush lied, Cheny got rich! AAAAAIIIIIYYYYYEEEEE!
remeber, the Vice Presidency is not a part of the Executive Branch, according to Darth Vader.
Funny how your sarcasm is almost dead on. Cheney is indeed a soulless man and has quite a history of malfeasance. Why is everything you mockingly mention acceptable to you?
The Vice-President has three jobs: Preside over the Senate, vote ONLY to break a tie, and take over if the President is unable to serve. That's it. Period. Anything else is at the direction of the President. So, no, the Vice-President was not just 'doing his job' if he was directing that a certain prisoner be waterboarded to get specific information.
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It's not that he was involved in nationals security decisions. It was that he was advocating a practice long outlawed not to save Americans from attacks, or protect Americans in Iraq or Afghanistan, but to gin up a justification for his earlier national security decision, invading Iraq.
I think Ventura was being too kind when he said if he could waterboard Cheney for an hour he could get him to admit the Sharon Tate murders. We could get him to admit being a serial rapist of the corpses of five year old he has killed just for that purpose.
Anyone who has read Jane Mayer on this subject knows the truth and weeps for America.
Why am I not surprised by this?? Cheney is and was a loser from the word go. Only Bush would pick this despicable person to be 2nd in charge.....or was he?? Hope he gets everything he deserves.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Dickhead shows up at his pearly gates
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It seems the Daily Kos loons have migrated here en mass knowing what Marx, Lenin and Stalin knew -- that a lie repeated enough becomes the truth. Everybody -- meaning all of the intelligence services everywhere -- thought Saddam had WMDs. And so did most of his generals. Even a left-wing journalist with an array of left-wing sources writes, "His responsibilities included chemical weapons and contacts with terrorist groups." Wouldn't you ask him about WMDs on the off chance he might know? Sure you would, and so would Nancy Pelosi. I might even consider
dropping a caterpillar in his cell to make him talk.
Ignorant twit
Banjo,
In DKos speak, you would be known as a Chucklefuck.
Chucklefuck, n. A wingnut whose political views are primarily shaped by fundamental errors in fact.
Fuckchuckle, v. To articulate political views as a chucklefuck.
"Did you see those fucking chucklefucks chuckfuckling at the Teabagger protest?"
Just tryin' to keep it real, dude.
Amend to read:
"Did you see those fucking chucklefucks FUCKCHUCKLING at the Teabagger protest?" :)
LMAO. You are so right.
Chucklefuck, indeed. Banjo is a prime example!
I'm so thankful it isn't just me. If you listen to certain people enough... eventually you start to think you're crazy. It's the same reason I can't watch Fox News. There is such a large distance between reality and their perception of it... that you cannot be rational and agree.
Banjo how apt that you include Bush/Cheney in the same league as some of the worlds worst Sadists
Lenin
Hitler
Pol Pott
And what's up with your obsession with Pelosi?
At the time when Bush started his torture policy Pelosi was NOT in charge.
Repulicans controlled the House the Senate and the White House.
The fact that you keep trying to tie Pelosi to torture tells me how
afraid you are that Buch Co. really did commit crimes against humanity.
For the last time..there never was a connection on any sort between Hussien and Al Queda..you twit..it was made up to justify the illegal invasion of Iraq (for oil, Halliburton..and to extend "W'"s pecker)..justification for Iraq is also the reason they were torturing...trying to torture out a "confession" for a link between Hussein and Al Qaeda that WAS NOT THERE!...
"The persistent inability to change one's views when confronted with solid proofs that those views are in error is one of the key, defining characteristics of mental illness and/or personality disorder".(.if the shoe fits..wear it)
I couldn't know that Saddam didn't have WMD. But I did know that every single claim Bush was making about Saddam's WMD was false.
I had read about how the aluminum tubes couldn't possibly be used to enrich uranium, according to the American scientists at Oak Ridge, our government run nuclear lab. But Bush kept bringing it up.
I knew how those "unaccounted for stockpiles" were actually just hypothesized to exist based on professional laboratory practices, and even _that_ didn't matter since they would have turned to useless sludge years before America invaded. But Bush kept bringing that up.
And I had read the leaked testimony of Saddam's son-in-law, the former head of Iraq's WMD program, who defected in 1995 to tell the truth. I knew that Bush was regularly revealing half of what that testimony said.
I quite my job the day we invaded Iraq. Certainly among the all-time worst days in American history.
Everybody knew? Except me, maybe. I knew there were no WMDs in Iraq at the time of the invasion.
Simple logic and intuition, free from any vested interest, can figure this stuff out.
Obama is using EIT's right now....... Can't you see ? Obama is George Bush,
Poor loser!
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Obama is a borderline retarded trust fund baby who ran everything he ever touched into the ground?
really?
Politishinz protect other politishinz. That much can be said. Not more.
Does this even count as a single English sentence?
"seeker" u need to keep lev in check, he is misunderstood
Cheney is fighting for his legacy. He is a disgusting human being, who care not for his fellow human, nor the rule of law.
He is a war criminal, and should be tried as one.
As an American, he is not my brother. Cheney is a dog with no soul. Shame on him and the Cheney name.
Cheney let you live long enough to write your crack. Be thankful
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BS. The World Trade Center was attacked in February of 1993 under Clinton. 9/11 was eight years later. By your reasoning, it was Clinton who kept us safe for those eight years and Bush/Cheney who let us down, because eight months after they took office, we were attacked again. Mind you, I'm not saying anything that stupid, just pointing out that you can't have it both ways.
yeah he could have shot you in the face a while back
Mmmm.... Kool-Aid! Yummy! Liz Cheney, is that you?
Choosing a name like "malicious disorder" doesn't do wonders for the credibility of your comments. Of course, no matter the screen name, the comments are enough to identify you as a sufferer of that disease, so... thanks for the unnecessary heads up that everything you blurt here is simply malicious crap!
Book him Dano.
Mug shot, finger print, let him out on his own recog. Surrender passport.
How about saying something that makes sense?
Where is the outrage when the terrorist sliced the throats of Americans? Where is the outrage when the terrrorist are blowing up Americans? Where is the otrage when the terrorist flew airplanes into American buildings? I for one will take a Cheney and Bush over the incompetent Obama/Biden. President Bush and Vice President Cheney kept us safe and supported our troops.
We are a country of LAWS! Because there are those that will kill us with no honor, and with no morality, we are not them. We are Americans, and with that mantle comes a responsibility to maintain the moral high ground.
There are those in America (Mostly the lost GOP), who have such hate in their hearts, that they have been blinded as to what the true American way is.
Again, for the slow people in the class, are a land of LAWS! Plain and simple.
Thank God we have the rule of law in America which protects us from those with greater power than ourselves and could possibly abuse such power if such laws were not loved and respected by all.
Thank God for young Americans like Carrie Prejean who would put their self interest aside due to their thorough knowledge of contract law and how it applies to them when considering others.
Hallelujah, we are free at last, we are free at last.
And by the way...
9-11, where we lost 3000 people, occurred under the watch of Bush/Cheney.
They were even warned about the strong possibility of attacks by airplanes, but chose to ignore it.
Safe under their watch? Maybe oil stock prices, but not American lives.
We lost 3000 people under Clinton policy..
So, CitizenX, if there should be another on the US in the next year, will that be Obama's fault?
More then 4400 American people have died in a war of choice. More then 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed.
Carole65 - "if there should be another on the US in the next year, will that b e Obama's fault?" -- well, it could sure be the Republicans' fault, since so many are rooting for the "failure" of the present government, placing the success of their party over the success of the nation!
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There was plenty of outrage, where were you in September of '01?? GWB and his cronies needed a scapegoat to blame for the attacks on American soil, and who better than some 3rd world despot who would never be able to defend himself against the U.S.A. But Bush wasn't content to admit that he'd waged war on the wrong country, so he authorized torture to find anyone who would tell them what they wanted to hear. Now it comes to light that it was Cheney who instigated torture and made sure it was *authorized* by giving the administration full rein to do whatever it wanted. Bush and Cheney didn't do anything to keep us safe, we were attacked on their watch, and the increased security after 9/11 is what kept us safe. If you are so foolish as to want to follow Cheney and Bush, then hopefully your prepared to spend many, many years in prison.....because the way things are going, thats where Bush and Cheney will be.
Exactly. Typical GOP mouth-breather kool-aid drinkin' talking points. It's sad, isn't it? Maybe this person wasn't even born when 9/11 happened, because it certainly has a bizarre view of how Americans felt in those horrible days.
Nicely said.
And furthermore, those attacks tore the heart out of every single American that day, and for you to even remotely suggest that there was no outrage, is a knife in the heart of every American who lost a loved one that day. Everyone who reads your post should be appalled that you (and anyone else who thinks like you) are so blind to believe that the Bush administration actually was looking out for the people of this country. They were not.....
exccuse me, but 9-11 happened while Bush and Darth Vader were in charge, Mr. Revisionis History.
You see, the timeline here is that Bush and Darth attacked Irag, telling the nation that there was a connection between Saddam and Osama Bin Ladin, and then, once official combat operations were over, hence the significance of the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED Banner, the war actually REALLY BEGAN, andW and Vader could not find a connection, because everyone in the world knew there was no connection, the Dog Wagged its tail and ate their homework, and their reasons for their unprovoked attack on Iraq pretty much changed from week to week. How soon Republican forget the facts.
Americans still hate the terrorist that flown planes into our buildings. Americans still hate the terrorist that sliced the throats of other Americans. But what did Bush/Chaney do when They had the Country and The Whole World behind them after 9/11? They Lied to us and the world. They betrayed the Country. Took us for granted. We were behind them. We trusted that they would do the job that they were elected to do. Protect The United States of America . That means to protect our Soldiers, the American People. Our way of life. OUR CONSTITUTION. OUR LAWS. The Geneva Convention. Which we signed. It doesn't matter that our enemy doesn't respect the Geneva Convention. We Do. That is what makes us a Great Nation. Bush/Chaney took away our Respect for their greed, arrogant attitudes and massive egos. When the world said No to the Iraq War. Bush/Chaney vowed "Either your with us?" Or Against us." We weren't attack in the United States for 7 years, since 9/11? There are 4000 plus dead Americans, and Tens of Thousands wounded.Believe me, We are still under Attack. Not to mention the families in the United States that lost their Love Ones, Our Soldiers. Have you ever lost a family member to a lie? Our Have to take care and help a Wounded U.S. Soldier? Better yet take care of a child that has lost his Mother or Father to a war based on lies? But you really have to asks yourself. That the U.S. Soldiers, The F.B.I Agents, Your Local Law Enforcement, The C.I.A. Agents are not doing enough now to protect us? Are you saying they are not doing their best that they can to protect us? Obama/Biden are trying to get that back. Our Soldiers are Dieing across the world so we don't have to here in the United States. Dick Chaney has had Five Deferments to get out of Viet Nam. FIVE DEFERMENTS. But yet he's more than willing to send someone else's child to go die for his lies. He should send his daughter off to war. With all that, We're still Outraged! We still want those Terrorist Dead. We are not a weak nation! We should never let some has been draft dodger call us a weak nation! If you believe that we are a weak nation. Then leave. We will fight and support our Soldiers, Agents, Law Enforcement, Leaders that Lead with integrity. They may not be perfect. But their fighting the right fight. We Want Are RESPECT Back!
What was done when they beheaded Americans, ??It just became news on television.NOTHING. I support the soldiers. But find jobs for them at home, give them houses and healthcare. We have no buss. in any other side of the world. So much intelligence and we were attacked in daylight.??But,the world should know if we are ever attacked again a part of the world will dissapear in retaliation.These 7, year wars ...please billions and billions of dollars are going where??We will never fix that region, and if we tortured,Who are we to go instill, DEMOCRACY.We Deserve our Respect, that is Why we cannot keep airing our dirty laundy in public.G-d Help us if we show the pictures.and we need to get jobs and growth here.
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Hoo Raa!
(dip-sh*t)
So your version of dealing with the terrorists is if you can't lick 'em, join 'em? Cheney kept us safe from nothing, but he did aid the enemy by providing them with recruiting tools.
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You forgot to include all the service men and women who have been killed because Bush started an unecessary illegal war.Puttin troops in harms way for NO good reason is NOT SUPPORTING our troops.
Are you seriously deluded enough to believe that people were not outraged to see *anyone's* throat sliced by terrorists? What kind of twit thinks he and his party are the only ones outraged by this? You are functionally blind and intellectually bankrupt and nothing you say can be taken seriously with this kind of fundamental disconnect from reality. You shouldn't be enfranchised to vote with this kind of pathological inability to draw even the simplest logical conclusion.
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Where is your outrage that Cheney was given the information that could have prevented terrorist from blowing up anything and did nothing. The blood of 9/11 is on his hands and he can't get it off. This is a coward who got 5 deferments when it was his time to serve but who has sent nearly 5,000 American's to their death trying to cover up his own incompetence. This is a coward and a traitor. Bin Laden remains at large. Whoever mailed anthrax remains at large. Our country is bankrupt. This is the legacy of incompetence left by Mr. Cheney.
Bin Laden's been dead for years. But that's another story. We may be blogging about it sooner than you think.
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The Attorney General needs to pursue an investigation and either hand it over to a federal grand jury for consideration for indictment,or tell us why he won't.We should not rush to judgement,that would put us in the same category of people who have ignored our legal system and disgraced this country.
I agree! One way or the other...investigate!
We will investigate forever.!!!!!!!Nothing will be done.Except in front of the world we are going to look filthy.All the countries who envy us, will use this to smear us.I know there should be prosecutions, investigations, etc,but no one can touch these guys with a 10 ft.pole.and the soldiers, or scumbags,that tortured, have paid enough of a price. If the orders would have been never humiliate or hurt a prisioner, then they should be punished. I dont like what they did, but there was no reason for them, to feel they were doing wrong, if the word out there was to torture. Again,I have a dilema. If they are terrorist and commited,death, then they should be executed.Torture is not, at least should not be what we were about. But then war mentalities, bring,rape,attacks,torture,....ah,the Human Moral dilema. AND CHANEY TO TALK ABOUT CL>POWELL.He cannot even stand next to the man.How dare he chooses,Limbaugh over a man who is a true,soldier,cared for his men, is a decent and sensitive human being, I can undrerstand Chaney disagreeing with Cl.Powell.BUT TO LAUGH AND BADMOUTHHIM.Very low.
Chemical weapons and knowledge of the Saddam-al Qaeda connection were obtained. These are still very important facts. Much of the 9/11 report information was provided by torture, yet when more information is not obtained, such as where the WMD's are, then Cheney is criticized for not having enough information. Intelligence doesn't come on silver platters via email or special delivery. You criticizing whiners are torturing me!
There was NO connection between Saddam and al Qaeda. And NO, very little of the 9-11 report information was provided by torture, and that which was, was obtained using Chinese torture techniques. The same techniques that were developed to obtain confessions. Not for the sake of truth, but so that the confessions could be paraded in front of the country.
Again, try the criminals and let them hang if found quilty.
democracyforall - There was never a link between Saddam and al Qaeda - NEVER - you were sucked into the giant scam conceived and promoted by the Bush administation to lead the American people down a path to war that had nothing to do with 9/11. Confessions from tortured humans to justify an invasion, which has killed and maimed thousands of American troops, not to mention the untold Iraqis that have been killed, displaced and used to line the coffers of Cheney and his cronies is beyond criminal - You should take a long look at yourself - if you can stand the reflection.
You are right there was no connection beetween Saddam and AlQaeda.They were enemies. at the end, we build our allies,and they become our enemies,because we get in bed with the worst of 2 evils.The next time if,and when and hopeuflly never,we retaliate,with a vengence 3 days,and finish.Not these 7 years worthless wars. The civilians, get nothing from us,are soldiers, are cracking,the world is changing, let them all find their democracies,let that region deal with each other.We have to take care of us. The people,80%,of the people iin this country DONT care,they want to keep their credit limits, homes, have their vacation,send their kids to school and HAVE HOPES for the American Dream.It is dead, now in 80%of peoples minds.If we have tortured,How dare we go abroad and fight wars to instill Democracy.?????and I know many persons, who said these were not soldiers, they are terrorist??Well then execute them,an eye for an eye.A mess,without an answer, and reality is, people have to solve their bills.
What knowledge of chemical weapons and the connection between Saddam and al Qaeda? What planet are you posting from?
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and bet your referring to the knowledge that was obtained showing that NO Chemical weapons or other WMD were found and that there was NO connection between Saddam and al Qaeda. Right?
What a tool!
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Saddam and Alqueda were not allies. None of them are allies with anyone and each other. They might all rejoice at knowing we were struck by one of them, but they are all out to get each other,and control and ambition, and power.There were 19 Saudis,our allies who think they went ot heaven to get their virgins.But all this is getting so old.I am staring to believe people that have said this whole war, was for control of the oil,etc etc.What a waste of everything. Hussain and his 2 sons could have been removed quietly,if necessary.We destroyed a country and we are Rebuilding it????The billions are going to their leaders,govt.the same as Afghanistan and Pakistan.
the war was/is for oil.. what else would it have been for? to remove a dictator from power? Please.. they are everywhere, and as long as they play ball, we don't mess with them... the pipes for the pipeline got there before the troops did.. The only way a country of our size can keep going, with as many people living in cities who cannot sustain themselves on their own land, is to take resources from other people.. other countries.. Do you think that all these countries are willing to give or sell it to us? Hell no.. so sometimes we have to take it by force.. Like it or not.. it is the American way.. you can disagree with me all you want, these are the facts... Look at Venezuela.. Hugo Chavez wants his own people to benefit from their own resources and doesn't want to play ball with the US.. that is all there is to it. period. nothing more... but look what the media does to him.. and not just fox news.. everyone.
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Cheney is the most evil member of the disastrous Bush administration. He was determined to invade Iraq; it was his only foreign policy objective from the moment he took power. He thought it was OK to deceive the American people in order to avoid the public disapproval of the invasion that telling the truth would surely have brought. Cheney lacks any respect for the rule of international law as well as common sense & human decency. He is so morally bankrupt that he aggressively pushed for torture, which everyone recognized was wrongful, for no purpose other than to provide political cover for a wrongful decision to start a war.
Cheney is a war criminal. He should be prosecuted & incarcerated for his crimes. He is the lowest of low life.
He has done more to make more people want to kill Americans than anyone else on this planet. He has made Americans much less safe. I, along with hundreds of millions of others, can sleep much better at night knowing that Cheney no longer has the power to make decisions which impact our lives.
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Go back to your Death Star, Darth Vader.
Really. That's all you could come up with. Really.
Really.
MaliciousDisorder
"We lost 3000 people under Clinton policy.."
I could have sworn Bush was president on 9/11, are you sure he was using Clinton's policy? Because I'm almost positive Condi testified under oath that they weren't, she said they considered it "swatting flies." But if you say so...
9-11 happened under bushes watch. durring his 2000 campaign he never once mentioned terrorists or bin laden nor during the time he was elected up to 9-11
so no he didn't keep us safe he failed really bad. we were attacked when he was in office and he never talked about homeland security.
all in all i am 55 years old and he is by far the worst president in my life time and very possibaly the very worst by far of all time.
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NO9-11 WAS BILLY BOY WHO WAS BUSY PLAYING DESK TAG.
THE ONLY TIME WE DISCOVER THE BAD GUYS IN 30 MINUTES IS ON TV.
TAKES TIME TO INFILTRATE NETWORKS AND SET UP AN OPERATION THAT BILLY BOY SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOCUSED ON.
CASEY PURVIS
CASEY PURVIS
DocB: You're preaching to the choir. Unfortunately, President Obama seems intent on letting Bush and his minions skate as a matter of professional courtesy. I have blind faith in the President but this appears his biggest miscalculation of young administration.
I only hope President Obama has the intestinal fortitude to let justice take its moral course. It is essential our country follow the vision and ideals of our Founding Fathers.
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President Obama is playing rope-a-dope with these idiots. You'll see.
Nice picture, TW. Ali, just bidin' his time. (Biden? Was this kind-of-second-tier political choice a hidden clue? LOL.)
I have a friend in Texas who thinks if you don't agree with torturing prisoners to protect America, you don't love your country. At the same time, he supports Texas seceding from the Union after 4 months of a non-Republican Administration. As F. Scott Fitzgerald once wrote, "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposing ideas in the mind and still retain the ability to function."
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There are a lot of people like that here in Texas.. and guess what.. if you turn on the am radio, the only choices you have (in English) are 3 sports talk channels and 4 or 5 non-stop 24 hours a day neo-con propaganda radio stations. A lot of people started listening to news radio on the am dial after 9-11 to get updates while they drove around or worked.. but those news stations are now not news stations anymore.. this is why there are so many blue-collar "Joe Six-Packs" out here that actually think the Republican party is looking out for them.. I guess none of them have bothered to look at their pay stubs lately...
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