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The Woman Who Killed Health Care
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Landov
With health care moving up on the national agenda, Betsy McCaughey, whose magazine article helped kill the Clinton plan, is back. Democrats had better be wary, warns Benjamin Sarlin.
Backed by a surprisingly cooperative health-care industry and strong Democratic majorities in the House and Senate, President Obama and Congress are mounting an aggressive push to pass a health-care-overhaul bill within months. But Democratic lawmakers are already suffering panic attacks over potential Republican criticisms. Sen. Evan Bayh told The New York Times Thursday that he felt “unease that we did not have a strategy” to combat conservatives, leading Obama adviser David Axelrod to meet with nervous Dems and explain why 2009 would not be a grisly repeat of the 1994 fiasco.
That year stands as a cautionary tale, as Republican attacks and the infamous “Harry and Louise” ads helped kill Bill Clinton’s attempt at reform. But perhaps no one was more influential in 1994 than former New York Lt. Governor Betsy McCaughey. “No Exit,” McCaughey's article in The New Republic slamming President Clinton's health-care plan, still sends out shockwaves 15 and a half years after it came out—and provides a roadmap of criticisms Obama and his allies will have to battle.
When the dust had settled in the 1993-1994 health-care wars, Newt Gingrich singled out McCaughey's article as “the first decisive breakpoint” in the plan's support.
In a recent interview with The Daily Beast, McCaughey said she was still proud of “No Exit.” “I'm not a political expert,” she said. “My training is in constitutional analysis and I applied my training to that particular piece. I said what powers are left to you and your doctor and what authority is assumed by the federal government.”
McCaughey’s piece painted the Clinton plan as a nightmare in the making that would “prevent you from going outside the system to buy basic health coverage you think is better” and leave millions of Americans with insufficient treatment thanks to government rationing.
The core arguments were quickly adopted by conservative opponents of the health-care plan. While McCaughey was a fellow at the conservative Hudson Institute and her background was in law and not health-care policy, the fact that her analysis had run in the traditionally liberal New Republic bolstered her credibility as an objective observer. The Clinton administration put out a detailed response and noted that provisions in the bill specifically said that “nothing in this act shall be construed as prohibiting... an individual from purchasing health-care services” despite McCaughey's key assertions that patients would be prevented from paying their doctors or seeking private coverage. But the meme stuck. When the dust had settled in the 1993-1994 health-care wars, Newt Gingrich singled out McCaughey's article as “the first decisive breakpoint” in the plan's support.
After bursting onto the national political scene, McCaughey has enjoyed a tumultuous political career. In 1994, she successfully ran for lieutenant governor in New York on the Republican ticket only to later break with Governor George Pataki, change her party affiliation to Democrat, and run a losing campaign for governor in 1998. In recent months, she has resurfaced in the press with a series of op-eds and TV appearances attacking President Obama's health policy with the same nitpicking approach that powered the GOP to victory against Clinton.
While Clinton's health-care plan has long disappeared, however, the debate over McCaughey's article never ended, and proponents of universal coverage have spent 15 years preparing their counterarguments for an eventual rematch.
“No Exit” ended up winning the National Magazine Award, sparking immediate attacks on McCaughey even from TNR colleagues like Mickey Kaus over its accuracy and objectivity. The controversy has refused to die, even more than a decade later. In 2006, the incoming editor of The New Republic, Franklin Foer, used his first issue at the helm to apologize to readers for running the article. The ongoing battle over “No Exit” led fellow contributor Andrew Sullivan, who edited TNR when McCaughey's piece ran, to write that while he was “aware of the piece's flaws,” he “nonetheless was comfortable running it as a provocation to debate.” And just earlier this year, James Fallows wrote in his Atlantic Monthly blog that McCaughey deserved a career-achievement award for "most destructive effect on public discourse by a single person."
McCaughey said she had not read TNR's apology, but that she assumed it was “politically motivated.”
“They asked me to write the piece and they were proud of it at the time,” McCaughey said. “I stand by 'No Exit.' It won a National Magazine Award, which is a good measure of its quality. I put the page numbers of the legislation next to each paragraph and my opponents didn't. I was inviting an open and thorough analysis of that legislation”
How Rich People Smoke Pot
Paul Schrodt is a writer living in New York City. He has contributed to New York magazine, Radar, and Esquire.com.
Justice Clinton?
As vice chairman of Public Strategies and president of Maverick Media, Mark McKinnon has helped meet strategic challenges for candidates, corporations and causes, including George W. Bush, John McCain, Governor Ann Richards, Charlie Wilson, Lance Armstrong, and Bono. McKinnon is co-chair of Arts & Labs, a collaboration between technology and creative communities that have embraced today's rich Internet environment to deliver innovative and creative digital products to consumers.
The Republican Holding Government Hostage
Benjamin Sarlin is a reporter for The Daily Beast. He previously covered New York City politics for The New York Sun and has worked for talkingpointsmemo.com.
Carly Fiorina's Demon Sheep
Benjamin Sarlin is a reporter for The Daily Beast. He previously covered New York City politics for The New York Sun and has worked for talkingpointsmemo.com.
Buck Up, Democrats
Benjamin Sarlin is a reporter for The Daily Beast. He previously covered New York City politics for The New York Sun and has worked for talkingpointsmemo.com.
EdinNJ
Just like Cantor parroting Luntz's talking points about "government takeover of healthcare" McCaughey's fear-mongering about "healthcare rationing" will be quickly shot down in the blogosphere and on the cable news shows.
This is the difference between now and 1994, and the reason why despite his ubiquitous presence on my TV, Newt Gingrich is irrelevent. The Republicans are living in the past. They still feel they can spout their half-truths and distortions and get away with it. But the American public is on to them, and they get their news and information in other ways now.
Health care reform will pass, and I'm sure it will lead to another tea party. And Republicans will be seen as that much more out of step with the American public.
sasha2008
Can you can connect- Healthcare, Healthcare Fraud, SEC Fraud, Bankruptcy Fraud, Financial Fraud and Mortgage Fraud- all for 'market driven healthcare' in America?
Currently there is a one man media blitz- Richard Scott (aka Rick) - probably using monies stolen from the same American people he is now attempting to exploit--once again.
Ironically his logo for the 'non-profit' - Conservatives for Patients' Rights is 'CPR'- ???
2009 - The Wall Street Journal reported that Richard Scott, "the former chief executive of HCA Inc," had formed the non-profit organization Conservatives for Patients' Rights as part of a "lobbying campaign to derail or modify" President Obama's health care proposals,...
The wrath of Richard Scott (aka Rick) and associates" fraud is still affecting main street America.
Let us look at what the market driven healthcare in our country has done for our future.
Step back a few decades to begin the journey of Richard (aka) Scott.
July 26, 1997, Los Angeles Times article:
A controversial deal maker whose hard-nosed business tactics have reshaped the medical industry resigned Friday as scandal engulfed the vast hospital empire he had assembled over the last decade.
Richard Scott -- sometimes called "the Bill Gates of health care" -- quit as chairman of Columbia/HCA Healthcare Corp. amid a massive federal investigation into the Medicare billing, physician recruiting and home-care practices of the nation's largest for-profit health care company.
Columbia/HCA is a partnership of financier Richard Rainwater of Ft. Worth and lawyer Richard Scott. Scott was recently terminated by Darla Moore, the wife of Richard Rainwater .
Rainwater also owned a large stake in Magellan Health Care which controls Charter Medical. Magellan, run by Darla Moore, is the largest network of psychiatric hospitals in the country. They are becoming more and more involved in obtaining government money for services formerly not covered as health care, according to Fortune Magazine.
1997 - Columbia/HCA Healthcare Corp. - the nation's largest for-profit health care company
Note: Hospital Corporation of America (HCA) was acquired by Columbia in 1994.
Balanced Budget Act of 1997- Home health - which was struggling under the Balanced Budget Act of 1997; about 1,400 agencies closed nationwide in 1998.
On Sept 8, 1998 Standard and Poors downgraded the bonds of Charter/HCA to negative bases on poor earnings. Looks like Rainwater and his Crescent Cos' have finally stumbled.
Columbia just decided to sell its home health-care business and its head announced she is forming a company of her own. The home care unit is valued at $ 450 million.
WWW.USDOJ.GOV
HCA Inc.
formerly known as Columbia/HCA and HCA - The Healthcare Company)
LARGEST HEALTH CARE FRAUD CASE IN U.S. HISTORY SETTLED; HCA INVESTIGATION
Rick Scott was recently terminated by Darla Moore, the wife of Richard Rainwater and according to Fortune Magazine, the "Toughest Babe in the Business". Moore created the corporate bankruptcy finance tool, DIP, debtor in possession while at a Chase bank. (1997, Fortune) Darla Moore, titled "The Toughest Babe in Business."....
In 1997, as part of Richard Scott's severance package from Columbia he was paid $5.13 million and given a five year consulting contract at $950,000 per year.
19975 = 2002
In 2002 FBI raided the offices of National Century Financial Enterprises in Dublin, Ohio
"This case is one of the largest corporate fraud investigations involving a privately held company headquartered in small town America," said Assistant Director Kenneth W. Kaiser of the FBI Criminal Investigative Division.
Guess where ALL of those Columbia/HCA Healthcare Corp. - home-care units were? National Century Financial Enterprises- "...largest corporate fraud investigations involving a privately held company..."
11 Executives found guilty-one acquittal, James K Happ.
While Richard Scott was at Columbia in 1997 - James K Happ was CFO of Columbia Homecare Group, Inc.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
Granite
My husband and I watch Fox News all the time--and laugh our asses off!
Don't you think it was weird during the Bush years they never found any bad news about the war? And yet they spent months on moment-moment coverage of the Natalie Holloway non-story!
Yup! That is hard hitting journalism!
We like to play what we call The Fox News Game. For instance I'll pick Missing White Girl and my husband will pick Humiliate The Token Minority Guest Du Jour, then we tune in to Fox and see who wins.
politicalmom
Rico182
You are mistaken about scenarios in Canada.. as a citizen of this great Northern country, i assure you, no one is being forced into bankruptcy over healthcare costs.. no one. Canadians do have access to good cancer treatment - your comment is more fear-mongering.
Your country is at war with its own middle class, and is putting the burden of skyrocketing healthcare costs on its citizens. Obama has the balls to finally step up and say that this is no longer acceptable.
maspring
Wow, to end an argument by calling someone an idiot. And misspelling the word idiot.
That pretty much sums up the modern Republican in my opinion.
Your argument about Fox's standing as the #1 cable news show is flawed. You might be able to figure out why by yourself if you consider how many hard core right wing news outlets conservatives have to rely upon and then compare that to the number of all news outlets as a whole.
Good luck.
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n--Y--jdavxcmilkman57
Dude... got some news for you. The 50 million are receiving health care now. It just happens to be in the emergency room. Who do you think gives it to them there? Answer: The doctors and nurses that keep you up at night.
AlanD2
Rationing is already here. Your insurance company won't cover something. You've been rationed. You have no insurance and can't afford it. You've been rationed. There is always more demand for health care than can possibly been done, so any system devised by humans will have rationing. The only remaining question is how to ration and how to make the rationing fair and effective.
oliverckerr
Michael Stephen Levinson went to New Hampshire, October 15, 2007 and declared he was a write-in candidate for president seeking the nomination of both political parties to present a united face to the world.
You can view what Levinson said - what transpired in Secretary of State William Gardner's office at youtube.com/poetprophet .
He started out with a recitation from his c. 1971 Television Scripture where on a page he described the arctic ice caps melting. Then he presented his medical delivery solution to the press: Free medical education for Dr.'s dentists and all related medical personal.
The long term solution is three or four times as many Dr.'s and dentists graduating. Maybe more. As people age they require more medical services. The cost of medical delivery is a supply / demand issue. Then he points out nothing is free so the 200 - 300 thousand dollar cost will be interest free with 40 years to pay back, and for providing medical delivery to the poor and indigent (the people who today are on medicaid) write off what they owe for that year.
That will eliminate medicaid - at least cap the cost of the Dr.'s part in the medical delivery to the poor.
Then he dealt with the issue of the 47 million people without any coverage. he said we could have a simple change in the tax code - allow Dr.'s and dentists to do $50,000 a year in charity and deduct that off their income tax - off the top. Then, after all their deductions, take another $25,000 off the bottom line, from the line showing the cash they owe, or paid in advance quarterly.
With a simple change in the tax code the 47 million uninsured have access to a Dr or a dentist for a lot less than whatever your Congress imagines they are going to do with your tax dollars.
He has more to say and for my money, I like his way! I admit I am a fan of the michael s levinson dot commie
al-nafs
OMG, theres a problem! Lets do as little as possible to assuage the symptoms now and pat ourselves on the back. McCaughey has pointed out some good things to be wary of and to keep in mind. However that is not a reason to do nothing at all, or as little as we can get away with. It would be better if she involved herself in actually solving the problem. Her proposed solution, handing out government debit cards, is really just more dependent welfare that will grow government needlessly.
I'd rather have everyone contributing a bit more for a national healthcare system that guarantees that everyone is covered, rather than have a subset of the population paying for their own healthcare and the care of others.
BernieO
McCaughey deliberately spread misinformation as did many conservatives and the media went along with it. (The same lazy jerks who just kept repeating conservative talking points about WMN in the runup to the Iraq War.)
This article referenced James Fallows but strangely does not mention the article he wrote for the Atlantic Monthly aptly titled "A Triumph of Misinformation" in which he explained the dihonest right wing machinations that torpedoed Clinton's health care reform. It is a must read for anyone who wants to see it succeed this time around.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/healthca/hcfallow.htm
Ritarita
McCaughey
Is self-serving slime.
See Countdown 2.12.09
JackJack
Speaking the truth is NOT "fear mongering" - there is no finanical way that big government isn't lining their pockets with higher taxes and less medical attention and rationing.
Look at the facts in Canada and the UK. Citizens wait months to have basic needs taken care of and depending on age, education, etc., they then are allowed major surgery.
We do not need governement healthcare. We already have Medicare, Welfare and child health care.
People need to take care of themselves, work for the kind of health care they want. No to Obama's plan.
ThisThatTheOther
But they already are working. We are primarily talking about the working poor here, who are not offered health insurance through their workplace and can't afford a separate plan. I don't understand why conservatives always assume that if people only worked they could afford everything in life. They work now.
drmarkklein
A physician, a Medicare beneficiary and a conservative leaning independent I suspect the Democrats will have no trouble passing a long over due health care reform. I'll back any reform which can deliver the quality of care I enjoy now under the traditional Medicare delivery model.
Clinton's plan largely failed because her personality and secretiveness antagonized people across the political spectrum. Obama's got the political skills to make the medicine go down smoothly. I wish him good luck with health care overhaul.
spinozareader
Oh Dr. Klein, thank you from the bottom of my surprised heart. (I say "surprised" because yours doesn't represent the majority opinion of the Fox News-worshipping docs I have to work with every day.) I work in a hospital. And my report from the front lines is this: We can't keep doing things as they've been done since the inception of Blue Cross/Blue Shield so many years ago.The center cannot hold.
Will there be people among us--the man who smokes 3 packs of cigarettes a day and expects to come through anesthesia with no risk; the 400-lb woman who eats all day, has multiple health problems and is on disability because of her weight; the mother of 6 children (with 6 fathers), not one of whom supports the kids?? YES. They're out there. And I'm as frustrated as the next hard-working stiff at the thought that my daily 8 -hours' work is underwriting their existence. And I know that sounds harsh. But what's the reasonable alternative? Does any one of us want to sit on a Health Care Morals Tribunal which decides how to dole out health care benefits based on merit? If so, does my affinity for a good, unhealthy steak qualify me as a health care slacker? (It really should.) The truth is, while I am disgusted with the parade of greedy, selfish humans who have a sense of entitlement when it comes to their medical treatment, I have to confess that I can see no way around implementing universal health care for all of us as a sane response to the fact that we all need health care. And there are so very many hard-working people out there; people who've fought in wars for this country; people who've scrimped and saved their entire lives and done "the right thing"--only to have met up with a diagnosis that forces them, sometimes, to choose between eating and getting medical treatment or medications. That is absolutely insane in a country as full of seemingly-endless potential as ours.
Mixpixlix
Spina, Excellent Post and right on target. Yes, we all know people who think they're entitled, who want what they want when they want it regardless of who pays and the costs. But that's not the majority of us. Not the majority of working stilffs be it blue, white, grey or pick collars and yes even the long term, unemployed
It has always fascinated me that people ( a lot of them) think Medicare is GREAT and S-CHIP responsible legislation but don't think the adults who care for both the Meicare AND s-chip generations are entitle to affordable, accessible care. It's never made any sense and I think people are beginning to realize that ALL Americans are entitled to decent affordable medical care.
And, everyone should pay something. I don't care if it's $10 a month. Everybody IN, Nobody OUT means everyone contributes within their means. It's part of being responsible.It's part of building a society where people matter.
Ritarita
spinoza-
I would add
To your argument
That the U.S. cannot
Compete internationally
When employers
Have one hand tied
Behind their backs.
Other countries provide
Health care
To their citizens
Ours is employer
Based.
BernieO
Clinton did not work in secret, In fact she travelled the country meeting with stakeholders in the heath care system. A doctor I know was at a meeting she held at a clinic in Wisconsin. The doctors there were very negative about the idea but were very impressed by Hillary.
She did not include journalists in these meetings, hence the charge of secrecy. They were furious at being left out, but it was done this way so that people would feel free to talk openly. The media has always disdained the Clintons and delighted in trashing them so this was just a big game for them. We have all paid a big price for their juvenile behavior.
allonfla
have we not learned that "it ain't what it used to be". Just like Obama wasn't taken down by swiftboating, neither will health care. these guys don't know what they are up against.
thill3453
Rico182 - Yes, there are horror stories about nationalized health care out there, but there are also many horror stories about our health care system, if not more. The fact is we pay a higher percentage of our GDP towards health care than any other industrialized nation and yet by many stats, we receive worse care. We have a higher percentage of preventable deaths, a lower life expectancy, and a higher percentage of the population without any coverage. Which system seems to work better?
Banjo1
People are dying in the United Kingdom because of the gross ineptitude of the National Health Service and Canada is sending expectant mothers to the U.S. if difficulties are expected at birth. The writer of this slanted article -- I'm beginning to think there are no other kind at TDB -- fears "the same nitpicking approach" to ObamaCare that HillaryCare got. The devil is in the details, my friend. When a committee of bureaucrats decides your life isn't worth the money it takes to save it, you mayl think back to your cheerleading for government health care.
milkman57
People are dying in the United Kingdom because of the gross ineptitude of the National Health Service and Canada is sending expectant mothers to the U.S. if difficulties are expected at birth.
Really?? Give us some examples of '"people".
Tango121
The following is from a BBC press release
A woman from Wiltshire, who won a legal fight for the right to be treated with the breast cancer drug Herceptin, has died at her home in Swindon.
Ann Marie Rogers, 57, won a landmark ruling in the High Court in 2006 against the Swindon Primary Care Trust.
Her son, Lee Woodrough, said: "She may have lost her fight against cancer but thousands of women will benefit from Herceptin because of her bravery."
The drug was prescribed to her by her oncologist and then denied by the Swindon Primary Care Trust. Who knows if she had gotten the drug from the start she might have beaten the cancer. Think she was the only one who got denied. Think Obama's daughters or wife or Hilary or her daughter would be denied.
connie47
The last time the World Health Organization ranked healthcare systems was 2000. Here are a few of the results:
#1 France
#18 United Kingdom
#30 Canada
#37 United States
A little less hysteria and a lot more facts, please, before I can take anything you say seriously.
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n--Y--LordVaderAlanD2
When a clerk in your insurance company decides your life isn't worth the money it takes to save it, who do you cheer lead now?
ThisThatTheOther
As a volunteer at a nonprofit, I have heard plenty of similar stories about women seeking cancer diagnosis and treatment in this country, but they are fighting against insurers to get what they need. So what's the effective difference? And if you don't have health insurance, as those 47 million now, then how do you get those meds when you fall ill? Now they are still getting sick, and still fighting to get the treatment they need, but going bankrupt in the process. How is this better than in Europe?
roger37
C'mon, Banjo. Pony up some facts.
I have dozens of in-laws in both Scotland and England, and they do not complain about the National Health. And when my father in law died at 100, he got nursing home care that was a good as what I was paying $3000 per month for when my mom passed away.
socialworklady
I'm sorry to have to tell you that, Banjo, doesn't do facts. He does other things - but facts - not so much.
dannypereira
Im sure an insurance agent 1000 miles away from you making the decision wether you should have that surgery or not is whole lot different then what it could be right? Im 26 my father is 62 we both don't have insurance or jobs, but who cares about us right. I hope Capitalism and The republican party die a horrible death. And screw Obama for talking about affordable health-insurance. We need free health-insurance. We are the U.S.A. we should be beating France in health care system.
design630
Banjo1--
Your ignorant, unfounded comments litter this website with untruths. Wake up, people are dying in the UNITED STATES because they have no health care, because they get cancer and get dumped by their health care, because they have a "pre-existing" condition and are denied of health care, because their health insurance does not deem a life saving operation worth the money it will cost. PA-LEASE!
Furthermore, your conclusion is utter nonsense. It should read more like: When a committee of profit-driven, money hungry CEOs decide your life is not worth the money it takes to save it, you will realize we need affordable, all-inclusive health care NOW.
socialworklady
Banjo seems unaware of how to reach a reasoned conclusion. From what I've read, it appears he may not have graduated high school.
Banjo,
Try this next time you write:
Make your claim
Give your reasons
*GIVE THE EVIDENCE*
Anticipate objections and rebuttal
State your conclusion
Once you've mastered this we can talk about premises and inferences.
Good luck. And for what it's worth, a high school diploma is worth it.
xbainx
Liar.
Pathos1503
If you have private health insurance, bureaucrats already decide if you get treatment. The insurance companies have doctors who decide which tratments are covered supposedly based on certain guidelines and these doctors are pressured to turn down a certain percentage. This is all for the profit of the company. So the insurance companies are the ones who are deciding your life isn't worth the money it takes to save it.
debbieqd
You are one of the most uninformed posters on the Web. I cared for my parents for 8 years before they died. There wasn't the tiniest problem (never had to make one phone call) with their Medicare coverage. They chose their own doctors and received excellent care. What people are dying in the United Kingdom? BTW, I just got back from Canada. Asked 5 perfect strangers what they thought of their healthcare. Answers: they love it. They want to know what the problem is with America? I said it was the "government haters -- they're stupid."
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n--Y--LordVadersocialworklady
LordVader,
I see your point about the agent provocateur. If this is true, TDB may want to reconsider the idea. I'd bet Banjo sends more people running for the cyber hills, than he draws and keeps at the site.
spinozareader
LV
My gut tells me that ol' Banjo isn't "crazy like a fox" (which would make him deserving of your 'Agent Provocateur' label).
No, I suspect he's a just a garden-variety, Fox (network) devotee who believes that life's problems all have easy (and, incidentally, mean) solutions.
I do think his/her heart's in the right place. Just lacking in insight. And Fox ain't about introspection, is it?
Ritarita
Banjo-
There is NO ONE
Around the world
Demanding to have
Our health care model.
Only the well off
Get to see doctors.
What could possibly
Go wrong?
ThinkAgain
I prefer the republican non government approach to problems but republicans only acknowledge a problem when it impacts their demographic. Long before that happens the other people who are impacted get them booted out, causng the implementation of the democrat solutions.
Republicans need to wake up to the fact that their policies needs to take into account everyone, including those who vote against them.
KateTheGreat
Isn't this woman on the board of 2 big Pharma companies? Also, her shrill doom-scenarios are tiresome...been through 8 years of that. *YAWN* Enough said.
Johnnyappleseed
I grew up without healthcare coverage ,until I was in my twenties it not even on the horizon.
That said I have watched the different scenarios play out over covering everyone from the poor to the illegals...sad commentary when all the liberals want all the benifits without the costs, I would like a new truck, but should my neighbors pay for it...I think not!
I was finally able to start my own business, and learned more than I cared about providing health coverage for my employees, and even joined one of the better small business coalitions NFIB, to champion small business issues, including heathcare.
The small busniness coalition had an oppourtunity for several years that would have relieved a lot of the coverage problems for the low income folks to get coverage, but the Daschles,Clintons and the Kennedy's kept it off the table,after having passed the House seven years running, but never the Senate.
It is called AHP Associated Health Plans allowing small businesse's to pool across state lines, being the largest employers by aggregate(there are 25 million small business's in the USA) it was kept of the table by Daschle, he departed and it was filibustered even though the Republicans were in the majority(need sixty vote to get it on the floor of the Senate for a vote) good plan poor leadership.
Our small company had several carriers, because the major issue was always cost, we finally ended up with a combination of a catastrophic plan and employee participation.
The employee part was essential for cost control,it is working well but not great, but the employees like it and after all it gave them affordable coverage....liberals listen up affordable optive word.
So before embracing a single payer government plan that will kill the best medical coverage on our planet, we should proceed with the utmost caution, otherwise we will take out the blood of our economy by mandating coverage by the small business employers.
I'm sure we all like something for nothing, but it may end up being bitter sweet in the process.
Remember the another government service that can't control cost, provides marginal service and delivers it's products sometimes beyond recognition the U S Postal service.
AlanD2
A 2007 New York Times article reports that of 191 nations the World Health Organization rated, France and Italy had the best two health care systems; the United States was a dismal 37th. This despite the U.S. spending more than twice the amount per capita of these countries. I doubt things have gotten any better since then.
dannypereira
Comparing Health-care to a truck that is low. I dont want small buisnesses to take on the burden i want all of us to pitch in so we can all be able to see a doctor. Let get rid of these blood sucking doctors who want nothing but your money. The socialism program will take the burden out of small buisness and into the government where it belongs. Remember that little saying government is for the people by the people. I wonder what country that is from?
milkman57
JA,
Great that you run a small business...congrats..hope you do OK through these tough times. Got a few points for you to consider. You wanted to pool together under the AHP to lower costs for all. That is the same principal with"socialized" medicine, only the pool is larger and it covers everyone. Single payer will not "kill" quality. I am a retired vet who has had "socialized medicine all my life and in my case it's been great. My parents and probably yours or someone you know has medicare which is "socialized". If you think I'm wrong you're free to tell me why with examples. If you don't like government services I guess that includes the military. We try/tried to do our best but were only as good as our leaders.
spinozareader
Milkman57
How right you are! That word "socialized" has gotten a lot of negative mileage out of it from people here who'd love to continue with this present health care mess. And here's the great secret...in this country, any and all services to which our tax dollars contribute, and from which we benefit collectively, could be deemed "socialized." That would encompass the military, public education, our policemen, our firefighters, our system of roads, our libraries, and so on. So, I ask the general public...what's your fear of the dreaded socialism?? And, as milkman57 has pointed out so well, haven't we all been benefactors of our various "socialist" institutions? Because, when all is said and done, all socialism is advocating is the common good. So, in the U.S., we might eventually be able to agree that it might be good for all of us if we could go and get our strep throat diagnosed and treated (Especially since we all already have an expectation of having our mail delivered). And, by the way-- I, for one, am damned impressed by what our postal system accomplishes for the price it asks.
milkman57
Her article was a lie. Common sense would tell you if anyone has enough money they're going to get the health care they want when they want it.. Of course she's proud. GWB is proud he went into Iraq. Cheney is proud he approved torturing people. These right wingers don't learn from their mistakes. Ms McCaughey has always had healthcare, she's never had to go to the emergency room to get her care. Let her be proud and ignorant. It's not going to work this time. We've all had 15 more years to live with her wonderful solution, we know better now.
EtienneEtoile
I just love these comparisons between socialized medicine and the US System.
Examples:
Rationing-Canada you might have to wait 3 years for a hip replacement (but you will get one)
Rationing-US if you are lucky enough to be employed with a company that is still providing healthcare insurance with a healthcare insurance company that does not deny you 5 times (cuz they are paying for their hedge fund losses) you might be lucky enough to get a hip replacement without draining your bank account.
The key word here is LUCK. You lucky ones that fit the conditions above are lottery winners. The other 80% of the American public are out of LUCK. No hip!!
So in closing do we stay with our lottery system that helps the few or do we learn from socialized healthcare systems that are out there and apply American ingenuity to make them work better?
socialworklady
I live in Canada.
A friend just had both of her shoulders replaced in separate operations. She waited six months for each replacement. There was no direct cost to her. Follow up physiotherapy also fully covered.
Wait times for elective surgery vary and depend on the province you live in. The system isn't perfect, but EVERYONE is covered here. If we can do it, you can do it. And yes, please do think of ways to improve on the system - but not at the expense of the many for the few.
cl1under
I find it ironic that the same people that are typically "pro-choice" are willing to support a government that will give them little or no choice. For those that want to nationalize healthcare,,, here's a little song that you can sing as you move north.
O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
Have a nice life and don't forget your Mukluks.
milkman57
Got some news for you. If you live here, in the US you will soon have what you call nationalized health care so you won't have to move. BTW do you have parents/grandparents over 65? They're eligible for Medicare. Medicare is "nationalized" healthcare. Do they have a 'choice?" Did they move to Canada yet? Do you have a clue yet?
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n--Y--LordVaderAlanD2
So why are you supporting insurance companies that give you little or no choice? Oh, I get it. You are rich and can afford to pay cash for all your health care!
socialworklady
Hey,
Don't forget the Francophones!
O Canada!
Terre de nos aieux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'epee
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une epopee
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempee,
Protegera nos foyers et nos droits
Protegera nos foyers et nos droits.
And yes, it did snow in parts of Canada today, but it's okay, our igloos are warm :)
exploora
Don't forget the bilinguals too. The ones who are technically fluent, in two languages, but can get sentence structure mixed up.
In my opinion, I prefer French sentence structure, it makes more sense to me than the English one.
A person who grew up speaking two languages in one sentence as if it was normal, I think Franglais should be recognized, possibly not as an official language, but as a Canadian cultural phenomenon.
spinozareader
You, my friend, are CLUELESS.
And what on earth does being "pro-choice" have to do with endorsing universal health care? You are a close-minded fool. And if you imagine for one minute that most American health insurance plans afford you with any "choice" about the doctors you can visit or the hospital you'll have your surgery at (with their complete or even partial coverage, that is) ---well, then you're just plain stupid. This is not the state of affairs in the United States on this, the 15th day of May, in the year of your Lord 2009.
GPatton
As long as Uncle Sam's clinics will treat the clap, I'm all for socialized medicine. George Patton
Banjo1
milkman57, do the research about the U.K. and Canadian health systems yourself. A lousy education might not have given you the tools, but that doesn't mean you can't learn them on your own.
milkman57
Well I thought you were just stupid but now i know you're lazy too.
socialworklady
Banjo,
You don't "learn" tools, you acquire them ...
Pot, meet kettle.
rpopstar
i'm outta here...off to learn me some tools, yes sir!
spinozareader
Banjo
Tool--you define the term.
aquamarine
A few of the articles in TDB are really good, but other than those, the most valuable part of TDB are the comments I read at the end of the articles. I never would have thought that McCaughey was on the board of two big Pharma companies! .
jackruby
except for government officials, and those paying extra premiums we can all expect to be waiting in emergency room like offices of our general health care provider with or without a centralized government plan. Health care will come closer to the third world model utilizing the village nurse to dispense the care. The research institutions will remain, and be funded. Getting access to their wonderful treatment regimines will be like winning the lottery. We will not incentivize the new generation of US trained doctors to go into what we now see as community medicine. This is the path that we are already on, the health care reform passage will make it so a little sooner. Our health care system is no different than the over consuming economic model that we are now suffering from as a result of the collapse of our credit and banking industries. We have been buying on credit too long. We have been consuming too much. This applies to health care too. We will need to reorient our expectations of what we think is good health care, and hope that with vaccinations, and research, effective and efficient treatment modalities can be delivered to the people of our country, because going to the doctor's office will essentially evolve into an experience much like you would have in going to the emergency room in a major city hospital now. It is not going to be better health care, just equal health care for all.
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