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Should Gays Ditch California?
By upholding its ban on same-sex marriage, California proved its dysfunctional stereotype. Joe Mathews says gay Californians should jump ship for pinker pastures—and the red states he chooses might surprise you.
Now you can add same-sex marriage to the long list of things that Californians have turned into an incoherent mess.
With Tuesday’s California Supreme Court decision upholding Proposition 8’s gay-marriage ban—and the marriages of those couples who tied the knot last year while gay marriage was legal—California finds itself in a very strange place, matrimonially speaking.
Ours is the only state that has both an iron-clad constitutional ban on same-sex marriage and thousands of gay couples whose marriages have full constitutional protection. Once again, the state is—as the writer Carey McWilliams first declared 60 years ago— “the great exception.”
Ours is the only state that has both an iron-clad constitutional ban on same-sex marriage and thousands of gay couples whose marriages have full constitutional protection.
A great, exceptional, dysfunctional basketcase that is.
So when the discussion turns to what’s next for the cause of same-sex marriage, the answer ought to be: Get out of California, as fast as you can.
Yes, you’ll soon hear lots of talk about how to undo today’s court decision and Prop 8. The obvious path is a ballot initiative that would amend the constitution to legalize same-sex marriage. Politically, with polls showing young people supporting same-sex marriage (and with the over-65 crowd, which opposes same-sex marriage, shrinking in number because of actuarial tables), winning an initiative in California would seem like a sure thing.
But these days, nothing is ever easy in California.
For one thing, any ballot initiative to overturn Prop 8 would likely face court challenges. And even if such a measure passed, opponents of gay marriage could return to the ballot again and again to reverse that verdict. This cycle of ballot initiatives and court decisions could continue in California for a decade.
For another thing, there’s a disturbing lack of consensus among same-sex marriage supporters about the best way to overturn Prop 8. Should such an initiative be placed on the next statewide ballot in 2010, or should they wait until 2012, thus providing more time for minds to change (and for more of those older, same-sex marriage opponents to die)? Should an initiative to overturn Prop 8 include specific “religious freedom” clauses so that churches and clergy don’t have to recognize civil same-sex marriages? Or would that be discrimination, and something less than marriage equality?
Same-sex marriage supporters are debating these matters. And given the experience of the “No on Prop 8” campaign, which was undone in part by internal disputes, there’s reason to worry about the ability of same-sex marriage supporters to find a smart, coherent strategy for overturning Prop 8.
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Joe Mathews is a journalist, an Irvine senior fellow at the New America Foundation, and a contributing writer at the Los Angeles Times. He previously served as Justice Department reporter for the Wall Street Journal and as a city desk reporter at the Baltimore Sun. He is the author of The People's Machine: Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Rise of Blockbuster Democracy.
Progressive2
"One potential threat comes from liberals who foolishly cling to the idea of not only overturning the Prop 8 ban, but also ending the concept of legal, civil marriage all together. They want to "get government out of the marriage business" and make domestic partnership the standard for gays and straights."
LOL you're angered by or accusing the liberals for wanting "small government" OH The Irony this is just rich.
(marriage really is central to our law and culture, and it's a civil as well as >>religious institution(bs)).
Thomas Jeferson would laugh at you.
rsbsail
So, whwn is this battle over? Exactly what is the end game? Must Catholic priests submit and agree to wed gays? Just curious.
Zugzwang
Well, since the argument for same-sex marriage is that government is applying the law separately, if equally, then it would end when government applies the law equally. So the end game is either gay marriage or civil unions for all.
It has nothing to do with churches. It has nothing to do with religion. We have separation of church and state in this country for a reason--to keep each of those things out of the other.
Sandras
No Catholic priests prefer to sodomize young boys.
Lester2009
aw heck I am headed to Las Vegas to get hitched at a drive thru by an Elvis impersonator! Then we'll just get divorced, because it doesnt matter....it was just for fun!
Hey man - what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!!!!
Religious institution my butt. Get off your high horse!
TimBarrus
Jefferson's not laughing. He's wondering. What has become of this "experiment."
Joe Mathews nails it. He's correct in every assertion he makes. If another state is to be the battleground focus, it will also be the focus of the religious right. They're not going to go away.
It's called a culture war.
The people who think it went away are wrong. The religious right will never put down the sword they wield. This culture war needs to be fought and fought hard.
Mathews suggests that the old and intransigent might need to die.
That's a war they're not going to win.
Tim Barrus, Madrid
http://le-too.blogspot.com
Munodi
Tim, the religious fanatics "'sword' is made of plastic. The only place it has any relivance is in the south. Have you not been paying attention to the last two elections? The majority of Americans are no longer interested in this "war".
Zugzwang
Tell that to the gay couples who would like to get married this year.
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n--Y--LordVaderSpasticula
Pffft. Well gays aren't going away either and they're sick of being your scapegoat. We push back now. Suck it.
Banjo1
I recommend that go to New England where the people have never been allowed to vote on homosexual "marriage" but it's the law of the land thanks to liberal judges and week-kneed legislatures.
spotted
If the government is involved (e.g. tax preferences, inheritance rights, etc.), the government must provide equal protection under the law.
The "voters" in other states didn't want to end slavery or miscegination either, but it was the right thing to do.
Banjo1
Nobody but homosexuals buy the analogy between the black experience and a preference for anal intercourse.
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n--Y--wantingscott1607
Yeah, we New Englanders live in a pit of iniquity now with our lower rates of divorce, longer healthier lifespans and better educated populace than some of the other banjo-pickin areas of the country.
Ritarita
Ha!
Banjo
Weighing in
On a Gay issue.
Like a bee to a flower.
muddog
Banjo1.
I think you need to come out of the closet, I am actually starting to pity you...Instead of sneaking around in the shadows and bashing fellow queers maybe it's time you embrace your sexuality and liberate yourself.
You might write a letter to Ted Haggart to see what living two lives does to ones sanity...
Banjo1
It's called stalking, Ritarita. Should I inform the police?
Ritarita
Only if you
Don't like it
Banjo.
highrpm
If something is worth fighting for, what's a decade in the battle?
Banjo1
Muddog: Is there nothing worse you can think to allege about me than I am homosexual? Step back from that and you'll see why decent people don't want marriage despoiled by what you and others like you evidently care unable to see is unhealthy and unwholesome behavior.
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n--Y--wantingjglass54
Oh, Banjo1, you would be a reliable source of amusement on here if it weren't for your hateful bigotry. Ritarita has a point.....you comment on every single article on this site that has to do with homosexuality or gay marriage or gays serving in the military. What's the story? Nothing else to worry about?
sonofloud
"If something is hard it means it's not worth doing" - Homer Simpson
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
scott1607
That's the running theme throughout the Daily Blegh...
Zugzwang
They seriously have a headline issue on this site. There's a lot of bait-and-switching on the articles, with spicy headlines supporting "meh" articles. Or even good articles that I would have read with less eye-catching headlines.
Valentine76
Stupid.
lwisne
You think you're going to pass a gay marriage law in Colorado and Ohio after a miserable failure in California? Good luck with that. You bring the weak shit you brought here in either of those states and you'll lose by 20%.
The bottom line is this: California is one of the most gay-friendly states in the nation. The No on 8 campaign managed to lose because it was one of the most poorly run major campaigns I have ever seen. The No on 8 people put 10x more effort protesting the result of the vote than they did actually trying to win the vote. I hate to break it to you, but in a Democracy you don't get to throw a giant hissy fit when you lose and get the result overturned. That's just the way it is.
All the No on 8 people had to do was wait until the next election, run a decent campaign, and win. They needed to change 2% of minds, and the demographic trends favor them greatly. Instead, they decided to go scorched Earth and harass those who disagree with them, blame black people/Mormons/whoever, rag on the state of California, and just generally blame everyone except their own campaign. At this point, you might just have to take the fight somewhere else, because us Californians are not exactly enthralled with the Prop 8 whiners either. It's a shame too, because legal gay marriage truly is the morally correct position and any decently run effort would have kept it as law here in California.
tylerschuett
"Should an initiative to overturn Prop 8 include specific "religious freedom" clauses so that churches and clergy don't have to recognize civil same-sex marriages? Or would that be discrimination, and something less than marriage equality?"
- - Were not asking the churches to recognize marriages. This is the exact thing that the religious right keeps wanting people to think... that all religions must recognize all marriages. This is just BS propaganda aimed at sliding undecideds their way.
You can keep your people to yourself...If I were married under the governments eyes, trust me... the last type of people I would want involved in my marriage would be the religious right.
Separation between CHURCH AND STATE. End of story.
It amazes me that the majority of African and Hispanic people
in California voted in favor of proposition 8... WHAT on earth does it matter whether you believe in same sex marriage or not... I KNOW YOU BELIEVE in EQUALITY. Right now... were not equal. How many of you died? How many of you gave you life for equality? And now the same fight is in front of you and you turn your backs? Very sad.
jrewing78
I hate to break it to you, but we are all equal. You're just as free to marry a woman as I am and I am just as barred from marrying a man as you are.
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n--Y--wantingtylerschuett
In regard to going to Colorado to prove ourselves. That seems like taking Daniel to the Lions Den... except in this story there is no miraculous recovery. He just gets ripped to shreds. We'll fight the fights that need fighting, wherever they may be and for as long as it takes. One state at a time.
I suggest we wait to jump into the middle of the den until... as you put it... we have a little more momentum (and perhaps a 12 gauge).
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n--Y--wantingBanjo1
I'm not a Mormon, but wouldn't Wanting's -- and I think we know what he's "wanting" and it ain't wholesome -- hysteria be "hate speech" if it were directed at homosexuals? It would be in Canada, which is what Great Leader wants us to be like.
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n--Y--wantingThis user is no longer registered.
n--Y--LordVadertreeserpent
Have you ever noticed that once great empires that are now either non existent or mere shadows of their former greatness all have one thing in common - they allowed the church to rule. California (and dare I say the US) is going the same way. Churches suck. Period. Revoke their tax exemptions and see how fast you get your economy (and country) back again. Purge the land of these parasites before it is too late.
finderj
The essence of compromise is that nobody gets what they want. The court tried a compromise.
Eventually, people will get the point.
This isn't Saudi Arabia and we don't live under Sharia law.
Even if you call it Christian names.
Banjo1
Secular fundamentalist like finderj would like the simple-minded who comment here in such great numbers to think there is a similarity -- no, make that no difference -- between decapitatin' Muslims and meek Christians. It's another part of the gay agenda.
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n--Y--wantingmissbike
Since when is "God" a he? He's don't create life, She's do. How absurd.
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n--Y--wantingThis user is no longer registered.
n--Y--LordVaderSpasticula
Thank God that Christianists have no similar agenda, say... to make gay people suffer.
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n--Y--LordVaderThis user is no longer registered.
n--Y--wantingThis user is no longer registered.
n--Y--LordVaderThis user is no longer registered.
n--Y--wantingThis user is no longer registered.
n--Y--LordVaderSpasticula
No better time to leave California. The state's economy is all effed up. Do like me and go fight the liberal cause on a conservative front. It's fun.
Ain't no type of couragous liberalism that will only stay in the blue states. The longer you wait to do it, the longer the liberaliZation of the nation will take.
RobNichols
I just registered here to reply to this article and heartily disagree with the writer's assertion that gays should bail out of California. Run away! That's the same argument that so many people on the left used in 2004, that if Bush were re-elected they'd leave the country. Horse feathers! Stay and fight and overturn Prop 8 if that's your issue. If enough Americans had emigrated in '04 McCain would be President. Instead, America's demographic trends are all squarely moving in the opposite direction, toward some actual enlightenment, as more and more people in the segments of the population that are growing get wise to the far right's utter intellectual bankruptcy. If Obama can perform at all decently, much of which will let's face it will not be up to him, the Democrats can build a generational majority like FDR's. Of course the same was being said about the Republicans half a decade ago, but the Neocons brought absolutely staggering ignorance, incompetence and arrogance to the game. Let's hope for all our sakes that the Dems don't squander the opportunity, that we're not merely the latest empire to lose its importance or influence. Note that both may be prolonged through wise and prudent use. Oh, we're back to that competence thing again. I don't think that California's gay rights supporters would be competently serving their own interests by letting a bunch of illiterate Philistines run them out of their homes.
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