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More to Love, a plus-size version of The Bachelor, premieres Tuesday night on Fox. But what does showing curvy women in the pursuit of love add to the American obesity debate?
Fat people have sex. Fat people go on dates and kiss and get married or not. Fat people wear fancy dresses and good makeup. Fat people take their shirts off at the beach.
More to Love, the new dating reality show from Fox premiering Tuesday night, ostensibly brings this reality home for America by presenting bachelor Luke Conley with his choice of “voluptuous, curvy women.”
It’s a one-two punch of acceptance followed by a knockout blow of shame.
Unfortunately, the show falls very short of the mark for this fat woman—if I didn’t have my own life (I’m married, happy) as a contrary example, I’d be pretty depressed by my odds for ever finding love at the end of the premiere. And I’d also be tempted to make up a drinking game around how often the contestants and suitor on the show say “voluptuous, curvy women.” It would be an easy way to get sloshed.
I’m a fat activist; I want to say that right up front. So when I say fat, I mean it as a descriptive term, not an insult. I work toward a concept known as Fat Acceptance—the idea that, really and truly, your body is OK just the way it is. And your health? Not only can you be fat and fit, it isn’t anyone else’s damn business. I even co-authored a book, Lessons From the Fat-o-sphere, on the subject and keep a popular “fat blog” called The Rotund. So the existence of a plus-size dating show on mainstream television made me sit up, and then it made me cringe.
It’s become a typical scene in reality TV: Twenty anxious women, exiting a series of limousines, present themselves to a bachelor who is ready to settle down. However, this is a big man, a fat man. And the women are also fat—or at least all more than 160 pounds. They step out of their limo and present themselves to Luke—a 330-pound California blond with his own business—with varying degrees of self-confidence and a lot of awkward lines that sound like they came from an Internet flirting primer.
For the record, ladies, “Oh, you’re so big and strong” does not make a good first impression. Apparently, “Hi, I’m a rocket scientist” doesn’t work so well, either.
And as one listens to the histories these women have to share, it’s pretty clear: Some of these women probably did get their flirting tips from an Internet dating site. One woman, 30, has never gone on a date. Others, including Luke, talk about the fat hate (of course, they’d never use the term) they’ve experienced.
Does every fat woman have a story about the date invite that was actually a humiliating joke? What about the one where the fat girl strikes up a conversation with the cute guy at the bar…and he asks for her thin friend’s phone number? I try to remember that meeting a good partner is a challenge for everyone, but it’s hard in the face of these stories not to feel like the show’s producers are conflating “fat women” with “pathetic, sad women” and leaving it at that.
Still, as I started watching the first episode, I could certainly identify with these women’s dating struggles, even as I sat comfortably on the couch next to my husband. The show's creators have tapped into something with this. But then they fall back on stereotypes, yet again.
It’s hard in the face of these stories not to feel like the show’s producers are conflating “fat women” with “pathetic, sad women.”
The women on the show look amazing; great fashion, great hair and makeup. They are all individually gorgeous, even if they don’t look a thing like the mainstream beauty ideal. It feels really great to watch them strut and shine. But…they are all strutting around huge plates of food.
Ask a random person on the street. They’ll tell you that fat people just eat too much—those fatties, with their lack of self-control. So when the camera lingers on Luke taking a bite of a cheeseburger, films him at a backyard BBQ flipping more burgers, I have opinions.
The show is already perpetuating fat stereotypes with its endless closeups on food. It’s already playing into the whole idea that fat people are a joke, a spectacle. Luke likes to eat, he says. Not a crime, by any means, but why, I shake my fist at the sky, why did they have to go there?
There are hulking platters of food and drink at the cocktail party where Luke meets the contestants, along with pseudo-salacious conversation about meat on a stick. A woman asks Luke what his favorite meal is and he says, “Anything thick and juicy.” This sounds to me like the answer of a man who watches BBW porn. Not a crime, but it feels demeaning. Especially for a man who claims he doesn’t have a “type.”
The women all talk to each other, to the camera, and to Luke. They cry during the interviews, a lot—the editing really plays up the desperation in the room.
More to Love is supposed to be positive. The marketing and commercials are full of “you go, girl” lingo, lots and lots of “real women have curves” platitudes (as if thin women somehow aren’t real). But this forced positivity feels awkward, another symptom of the tension this show embodies—and the tension found in most media portraying the fat set.
Is showing plus-size women in prime-time enough to promote understanding? Or do producers have a responsibility to follow through with the idea and create something that doesn’t fall back on cheap clichés?
As an activist, I believe that it’s revolutionary to see fat women (and an equally fat guy) on television. Period. It’s even more unbelievable that the focus of this show isn’t dieting and weight loss. Whether it’s Dance Your Ass Off or Drop Dead Diva, the new Lifetime show about a model in the body of a definitely not-a-model lawyer (which is actually pretty great), the focus is on their efforts to lose weight.
More to Love, at least so far, doesn’t show big women in the pursuit of being small—a definite step forward.
But the show also falls into the same old fatty-hating, fatty-baiting traps that belittle the Fat Acceptance movement. The women joke about Spanx, a girdle-like product that’s supposed to smooth you out and make you look slimmer. One girl, who jumped into the pool in a bid for attention, worries that she looks like a whale.
It’s a one-two punch of acceptance followed by a knockout blow of shame.
Luke manipulates a woman into kissing him by playing on her fear of being cut the first night, playing on her body insecurities. She kisses him again.
More to Love is a confounding welter of self-confidence and self-loathing. I like these women, the interesting ones, and while Luke is a bit too much of a frat boy for my tastes, I applaud his lack of shame—he likes big women and he’s unapologetic about it. That shouldn’t deserve the acclaim it gets him, and it shouldn’t deserve the points it scores him with these women, who seem convinced this is their only chance to find love.
Ultimately, I think that’s what made me the most upset about More to Love—the show’s depressing portrait of these young women, already afraid they will die alone and unloved, unworthy of companionship. I’m not mad at them, though I want to send each and every one of them a copy of my book, a useful guide to getting over self-loathing. I am mad at every man and every woman who has taught them this kind of fear. I am mad at every jerk who wants these women to loathe themselves.
But there is a glimmer of hope. More to Love shows us beautiful fat women, refusing to apologize for who they are. That alone is positive. And I’m trying to hold on to that.
Marianne Kirby writes the popular fat acceptance blog The Rotund and is the co-author of Lessons From the Fat-o-sphere: Quit Dieting and Declare a Truce with Your Body. She writes, makes art, and lives fat and happy in Orlando, Fla.
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No. They are not " P H A T. "
They are F A T.
We have an obesity epidemic in this country,
and this show can be directly tied to
the current healthcare system and reform.
Obese people in this country adversely
affect the cost of all of our health care.
It is time to stop giving people a pass
by using politically correct terms such as
"plus-size or full-figured."
Enough already.
You are obese. You are fat.
There is NOTHING healthy about " your lifestyle. "
Overeating is NOT a " lifestyle. "
Nobody forces you to enter that fast food restaurant.
The weak argument that healthy food cost more is bologna.
A bag of frozen vegetables cost far less than high calorie fries.
A glass of water cost less than endless containers
of sugary drinks.
Short of some extreme hormone imbalance,
being obese is not acceptable, and it is NOT a disease.
You can pretend that there is " more to love, "
but if one of the consequences of diabetes is
heart disease, or amputation, there will be " less to love. "
Try a vegetable.
Thank you. It's time we wake up and stop satiating our unhealthy habits.
You may be sick of fat people being 'given a pass', but I'm sick of everyone thinking that because I'm overweight, I must be stuffing my face with junk food.
I'm female, 36 years old, and I weigh 200 pounds. I don't, and never have, eaten too much. My friends know this, my family knows this, and my doctor knows this because she's worried I don't eat ENOUGH. Yes, you're reading that right. I have notes posted on the fridge not warning me not to eat, but reminding me TO eat, because I tend to forget.
Oh, and I don't like fast food. Grease and fried stuff make me sick. I don't like artificial sweets. My fridge is full of fruits and vegetables, feel free to try to dig up the bags of potato chips I must be hiding somewhere.
If I get diabetes, it will be because my father and his mother had it and it's in my genes. I sure hope I don't, because I have enough problems with Multiple Sclerosis and Graves' Disease (Hyperthyroidism, yeah, *hyper* doesn't always make you skinny). 'Why am I fat?' has been an unanswered question all my life, and is likely to remain so, if none of my doctors have ever been able to answer. I just am.
I don't know if my story will make you ever question the habits of the next fat person you decide to judge. I am just so tired of people thinking that, if someone isn't skinny, they must be eating too much. There ARE other reasons.
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Jezoebel, no one said anything about being "scary skinny." Further, being too thin affects FAR fewer people than does obesity in this country. It's entirely possible that a person be of HEALTHY weight, simply by watching what he or she eats and remaining active. (One's personal "healthy weight
can vary quite a bit, but being obese is never healthy.) The obesity epidemic in this country is the result of lifestyle choices people make. When one talks about an obesity epidemic, this refers to the fact that obesity rates have DOUBLED in the US over the past 20 years. I am of course excluding rare genetic conditions, beyond one's control, that make it extremely difficult for to control one's weight. By and large, the obese are people who have the ability to make better choices and improve their health. Certainly, these people should not be ridiculed or considered lazy and lacking in self control. In fact, it is possible to recognize obesity as problem and educate people so that they can make better choices, without ridiculing and shaming them. I'm well aware that not everyone can be skinny, or even trim, but most people in this country could benefit from a bit of exercise and some vegetables. You should certainly love yourself for who you are, at whatever size you are, but you should also love yourself enough to care about your health! And if you think being overweight or obese does not aversely affect your health, then I suggest you have a chat with your doctor...
(And before you accuse me of being a self-hating "former fattie," I'll let you know that I have been an active, healthy-eater all my life, and have managed to stay in shape without shoving my fingers down my throat.)
@jezoebel
Never had any obesity or anorexia issues,
both of which could be related to a lack of self esteem.
You commented
"we're here, we're fat, get used to it."
Keep up a fat lifestyle,
and obese people WON'T BE HERE FOR LONG.
I feel sorry for people in denial,
and I feel sorry for me and everyone else
who will pay for others' irresponsible behavior,
potential heart disease, potential diabetes
which could potentially lead to amputation.
It's all about moderation.
You know what, Sophia...you have NO BUSINESS making such generalizations about the overweight. Let me educate you on a few things:
1. I am a vegetarian.
2. I work out 3-5 times a week, strenuously (running or swimming).
3. The only health problem I have are allergies to ragweed and poison ivy. It's the ONLY reason I go to the doctor, and that is rare.
4. I have normal blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol.
5. I can't even remember the last time I went to a fast food restaurant other than Subway.
6. I don't drink coffee or tea, and I NEVER drink pop.
7. I don't eat anything with Aspartame in it.
Yet, I am 5'4'' and weigh 226 lbs. I am "Morbidly Obese", but I'm willing to bet that I'm probably healthier than you are. Your diatribe is a chock full of assumptions, stereotypes, and other untruths. YES, there are overweight people as you describe. But there are also those who do everything they can to be healthy and fit. I will never be "thin"...but I am healthy! I am NOT a drain on our health system, but by your flawed assumptions, I am. Face it, it's easier to generalize all of us "Fatties" in one lump than to face the fact that there a numerous ways to be unhealthy. In fact, I just read today that tanning beds give you cancer. Stop lumping everyone into your flawed reasoning!
Sophia, you are a hateful, despicable individual.
1) Healthcare: Obesity is positively linked to expensive health care, but so are smoking (positively correlated with thinness), drug use (positively correlated with thinness, and sports injuries (positively correlated with thinness). Thin people also live much longer than fat people, and healthcare costs rise dramatically with age - the costs of hospitalization, long term care and medicine for your bony body when you are 95 years old will dwarf the costs of diabetes treatment for a fat woman who dies at 65. The healthcare argument is an absurd red herring. THIN people are a bigger drain on our healthcare resouces than fat people.
2) You are a bigot of the highest order. Experiments on animals clearly indicate that obesity is a direct product of genetic predisposition. Most fat people HATE being fat, and would do anything to stop being fat. They cannot defeat their genes. Do you spew hate at black people for being born black? If not, then why do you spew hate at fat people for being born with a greater quantity of fat cells, a slower metabolic rate, or a greater physiological propensity for hunger?
3) What gives YOU the right to say that being obese is unacceptable? Judge not lest ye be judged yourself, you bigot.
Here we go again. Look, you probably won't believe me or the other fat vegetarian who replied below, but I am very fat and still have been a vegetarian for 15 years. And I do not live on vegetrian fast food either - I eat fruits and veggies every single meal, I drink unsweatened tea and water and I don't like fries very much. Plus, I exercise. I have some unhealthy habits too, but I am pretty sure you do as well.
In addition - my risk factors for disease are none, I repeat NONE of your business. I do agree with campaigns that encourage people to live more healthy (and note, that's not the same than being thin), but that still does not mean you have a right to judge the people that don't follow the advice given to the letter. And "stopping" to give people a pass for being fat? Where the hell do you live? Actually, I was bullied because of my weight since elementary school; and when I was in middle school it got so bad that I was afraid of going. Some people STILL find it okay to call me names on the street - not to mention that they assume I must be stupid (I have two university degrees and I belonged to the best of my class both times), lazy (well, I am smart, but I still had to work for those degrees), dirty (I know quite well how to take a shower and how to brush my teeth, thank you very much), and without self-control (to paraphrase a quote I have read once consider that I have not yet attacked anyone who insulted me).
Sohpie5, my relatives on both sides of my family lived till their 80s and 90s, none of whom were skinny. And the few skinny ones in our family died young. And it's not denial. It's called ACCEPTANCE. You might want to practice some. Oh, wait, you don't accept anyone that's not a size zero. Enjoy your cancer stick and tofu.
Totally agree. I don't want to pay for anybody's horrible choices--whether it's smoking, drugs or overeating.
We probably shouldn't be surprised that FOX is behind the show as it's likely that the other networks (wisely) chose to pass on this thinly-veiled attempt to reach "real" people. Must every one of the women have cried during their introductory interviews? Was there no way to find 25 confident, accomplished, unapologetic, self-aware contestants? When dismissed after 30-second meetings with the bachelor, why did they all have to weep that they had to "go back to my real life" as if some amazing romance had transpired? But, most glaring and disturbing of all: I didn't need or want the women's weight prominently featured EVERY time she appeared on-screen. I'm smart enough to figure out that these are larger women, but would we ever feature men with a graphic reinforcement of their deficits or challenges? Can you imagine a show that reveals that a man has ED and he's forced to take Viagra? Absolutely, positively not. Remind me of her name, her age, her hometown, but her weight? Come on!
What's most troubling is that these women went along with the show's producers and submitted to participating in the farce. We can shoot the messenger, but our collective obsession with being on TV and becoming famous has consequences, not the least of which is these (allegedly) happy women sobbing on-screen about how tough it is in the dating world and contributing to the perception that no one can get to who they really are because of fat bias. Despite declarations about being "big and loving it," the biggest contradiction of all was the contestant who said "would I be happier if I were 50 pounds lighter? Yes, I would." Puh-lease. If I were a fat woman, I'd be pissed off at my large and lovely sisters. They agreed to make themselves lambs for the slaughter, only this time, they didn't have to be fattened up before being sent to the chopping block. I know of what I speak...I'm single, not a BBW, and dating still sucks!
All I see in the photo is a group of beautiful women. It is about time this kind of reality became a reality show.
Yeah! A reality Joke.
While beauty is in the eye of the beholder, these are not "curvy" women. These people are morbidly obese - most over 50 pounds overweight. Now, c'mon, that's not any better an example to our nation than models who look like heroine addicts. What's more, in both cases, the women are being reduced to what they look like. Not a proud moment for the advancement of women.
So long as you're trying to force me to pay for your health care...then you can be certain that you being fat and affecting my pocketbook is my "damn business"...
Public or private, you ARE paying for the health care of obese people. Insurance companies cover fat people too.
You're 100% right !!! But at least it's a choice I've made...To the extent an insurer (subject to market forces) chooses to insure them - they can make the necessary adjustments to their policies and/or premiums. The theory being that insurers who fail to make those adjustments price themselves out of the market...
if they drag out a "skinny" girl half way through the season to "shake things up" don't be surprised. I had high hopes for this show and instead it's barely above the maturity level of an MTV or VH1 show.
bobdow
Hilarious. Excellent call bobdow. You're probably right.
They're going to bring out a bunch of skinnys
in the middle of the series, and we'll all find out
how much the guy really likes the fattys.
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The ladies are pretty but here's my beef with the whole fat situation.
I eat lunch every day with overweight men and women in their 30s and 40s. I watch what I eat, am a size 4 and work damn hard at it. I'm also over 40.
My fat colleagues continuously make fun of me, the food I eat, my attention to my health and my self control. Each of these people are on anti depressives, and/or anti anxiety medications because they are unhappy. They do not exercise or make any effort to take control of their unhappiness or their weight. They eat ice cream and cookies at lunch and then complain about how fat they are. They take the elevator and roll their eyes when I take the stairs.
I have never said anything to them about their food choices or lifestyle choices, why do they feel it is politically and socially correct to comment on mine? BECAUSE I AM THIN.
So, what sympathies I used to have for overweight people have diminished. Now I just wish they would get up off their fat asses and help themselves and stop judging me.
I understand your situation. Though I am naturally thin, I resent that it's okay for overweight people to taunt and tease me about my eating habits or accuse me of having a eating disorder but if I did the same thing I'm fat bashing. I understand that misery loves company but we need some tough love. My being skinny doesn't effect the heathcare costs of others like being overweight does. It's time we realize that it's not cool to be fat and that marketing to people with unhealthy habits is counterproductive. If you're fat and proud, then you need to pay for it and stay out of my pocket!
haha this is funny i agree there a few overweight guys who work with me and their always saying how they wished that they could have my metabolism for a day but what they dont understand is that when you work our 8-9 times a week you can eat whatever you want especially if most is good for you its annoying
1.) Concerning health care - it is not at all proven that fat people have higher health care costs during their lifetime than thin people (there was a Dutch study some time ago that suggested otherwise, for example - they argued that people you live longest cause the highest healthcare costs over their lifetime):
2.) I agree with you that thin people should not be judged on their body type by fat people.
Fat people eat too much. They are wasting our world's resources and taxing the planet to feed their abuse of food. They are direct contributors to global warming, famine in parts of the world, and soaring food costs in poor countries. Sure, not every fat person is a glutton. There is a tiny fraction of people who are fat because of a medical imbalance that is difficult to manage - but the huge majority of fat people are fat because they are lazy and selfish.
There. I said it.
I am 54 years old. I have asthma and a bad knee. I have more than a few excuses to not exercise and just eat & sit on the sofa. I love to eat potato chips, drink beer and eat ice cream - but I do so in moderation. I walk at least three miles every day, put about 3,000 miles on a bike each year, and maintain a body weight that is about the same as the day I graduated from high school.
Wow... It's really sad to think that a person of your age could be such a mindless media drone. 54 years old? Really? One would think that you could do your own research by now. Many studies that say such things as you've described are funded by the 40 billion dollar a year weight loss industry. That's billion... with a B.
Do you honestly believe that a fat person is to blame for loss of resources? Loss of food? Even when tons of foodstuffs are being thrown away each day? Even then, it's all the fault of a person who happens to have more fat cells than the media says he or she should have?
And fat people are the cause of global warming? Do you know how idiotic that sounds? It's preposterous! Why, might I ask, am I the reason for global warming? Because I BREATHE? Well, excuse me for living, dear sir. Allow me to hold my breath a little more often.
And of course it's not war or dictatorship that is causing innocent people to starve in poor countries... it's the fat people. Damn me for having to eat to survive (and breathe for that matter).
Here's where I'll end my sarcasm.
Sir, with as much respect as I can muster, please, I beg of you, take time to read many studies... not just the ones that say fat people are the last sign of the apocalypse. You will see that there are many, many just as relevant scientific studies that show weight to be healthy, especially as you get older.
Don't you realize that if you replaced "fat people" with "blacks" or "Jews" you'd be called a racist... This type of hate and persecution is wrong.
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If you are so concerned about health, maybe you should stop endorsing a show that promotes pretty much the unhealthiest way to lose weight than exists - namely The Biggest Loser. Fast weight loss through drastic calorie reduction and exercising until you drop is NOT healthy. Plus, I recommend doing some research - most people that were on The Biggest Loser regained weightb (not to talk about that some lost weight through some additional very dangerous methods like limiting fluid intake).
Fat Acceptance has nothing to do with accepting health problems. Fat Acceptance activists usually advocate HAES meaning Health At Every Size. Most fat activists support eating well and exercising often and being as healthy as you can be even if you are fat. It's a misconception that if you eat right and exercise that you will be thin. Not everyone works that way. Also, thinness does not automatically equal health.
I think you misunderstand the title of the movement. The Fat Acceptance Movement is just a more specific branch of the Body Acceptance Movement which fights for the right for everyone to love their body short, tall, fat, thin, able-bodied, not, etc.
Although each person bears a certain responsibility for their weight, you cannot decide everyone should be one size. People have difficulty maintaining a healthy weight for many reasons. We can't all afford personal trainers or have the time to work out daily to keep a sveldt figure. Sometimes we just do the best we can. Controlling our food intake is a lot different from controlling other "addictions". You can live without smoking. You can live without drinking alcohol. You cannot live without food. The temptation to eat and overeat is always there. The more you weigh, the harder it is to exercise. It is a viscious cycle. You think that when you lose weight, it will be easier to exercise. But losing weight is difficult until you are exercising!
I ask that the skinny people of the world be a bit more forgiving of those who are plus-sized. They would love to be skinnier, but it isn't something you can just switch on and off. Even those who lose weight through surgical procedures are hard-wired to gain it back if they are not monitored carefully. The majority of the world can't afford that kind of help.
If fat people make comments about those who are skinny, it is jealousy, for sure. We'd all love to be the person who wears a size 4. As it is, some of us as we get older settle for size "healthy".
I'll never wear a 4 again, but my blood pressure is lower than average, my cholesterol is good, and I try to get as much activity into my life as I can. My grandfather lived to be 97 years old, my grandmother is still alive at 101. My odds are good. I try to eat a healthy diet with plenty of vegetables and fruit, and few, if any desserts.
I've been single for 17 years now, and that's okay. I'd rather do everything myself and show my daughter that it is okay to go it alone than to moan and groan about not having a man and end up going from relationship to relationship trying to find a "knight in shinning armor" to save me from a life of loneliness. There are MUCH worse things than being alone.
Not being accepted for who and what you are is the worst.
You don't have to hire a trainer or beat yourself up in aerobics class every day to stay in shape. I'm 5'2", weighing in at 102...and over 50. I paid $85 for a bike and helmet at Walmart and $40 for a pair of cross trainers. Between walking, riding my bike and eating right (cut those carbs and fat, lose the sugar, etc) I've maintained my weight. Total cost, other than the regular cost of food: $125. I think most people can afford that if they really want to get into shape.
Plus, did anybody notice that "Luke' is quite a porker himself? Were they afraid to have the bachelor weigh 175 instead of over 300? There are a whole lotta men out there who are not overweight and who like their women on the "chunky" side. Why not choose one of them for the bachelor? THAT would have made a statement. Instead they played it safe. FOX is just shameless enough to do a show like this. Sad.
A "porker"? That's a very offensive and hurtful statement. Fat people are, indeed, human and should not be compared to animals. That's very rude. And though, I don't think that you meant to be so hurtful, I just wanted to let you know that fat people who love their bodies the way they are and are fat activists are fine being called fat. Cutesy, animal-like nicknames are often used to keep from being offensive but they often are more offensive than just the term "fat." ^_^
i agree with you on mostly everything you've said so far, except the "we'd all love to be the person who wears a size 4." i am happy with my child bearing hips pre-child.
I love the way the sanctimonious fat-loathers on this thread are blithely ignoring both the contents of article and the premise of the show to simply regurgitate a load of ignorant, prejudiced claptrap. Actually I'm lying; I find it tedious in the extreme.
It's unfair to say that these big women have it bad and that they're being exploited. Most people have insecurities about how they look, the gym is full of them. Every time I go, I see ripped guys constantly checking themselves in the mirror and hot women obsessing over their weight. Hell, even Megan Fox says she's insecure. As much as you think its insulting/unauthentic/cliche to show the overweight women joking about spanx, the truth is that skinny women are talking about how they can look skinnier in them too.
This is the first DB article I've seen where the author neglected to post her photo. Interesting....
What do you mean? Her picture is posted.
Her photo is on the left side of the article. Plus, Marianne has plenty of photos (yes, also photos that show her whole body) on her blog.
A plus size girl can be six feet tall and trust me she will never fit in normal size clothing.Once again, you cannot lump everyone into the fat and not eating right story.
Girls that are prone to anorexia start the cycle hearing words like I read above.
I'm all for acceptance, but over-indulgent behavior such as excessive eating, drinking, etc, should not be presented as an acceptable alternative lifestyle for our children.
And yet starving yourself skinny is presented as an acceptable lifestyle. Why are you so sure that this is a problem of "overindulgent behavior"? Maybe it's a problem with agricultural subsidies that promote the production of corn and soy, moreover corn and soy monocultures with reduced nutritional value, so that we have to eat twice as many calories to get the same nutritional value we would have gotten eating whole foods before WWII? Did you know that you'd have to eat 3 apples today to get the same amount of iron in a 1940 apple?
Or maybe it's a problem of society shaming fat people into over-eating or unsustainable diets.
Or maybe the anti-depressants apparently all fat people are on are making them fat.
Or maybe it really is noyb. Skinny nascar drivers, stunt technicians, coal miners, models, plastics factory workers, all drive up our health care costs too.
@Forestroad--YOU ARE SO RIGHT to address the reasons behind the obesity epidemic--our food supply is seriously defective.
The industrialization of agriculture has left us with "food" that severely impacts our health, in a very negative way. Do you really think that such a HUGE percentage of our population has suddenly decided to eat so much that they waddle down the street?
Or is it more likely that a systemic change in our food supply has taken place over the last couple of generations that has caused obesity in a large percentage of the population?
Many people who are thin seem to enjoy the high and mighty position, raining criticism on those who have gained weight, but what about the people who have gotten fat following the government's "health" recommendations? Low fat? BAD IDEA.
This is such a complex societal issue--for those who want to really learn what is going on, read books by Michael Pollan (Omnivore's Dilemma and In Defense of Food), or watch Food, Inc, or King Korn. Eye opening, to say the least.
actually, it isn't. it's glamorized to some extent, but that's not the same thing as presenting it as an "acceptable lifestyle."
more importantly, skinny people incur less of a cost -- literally -- than fat people do to society.
i agree to some extent with jessica's comments, and applaud her for mentioning michael pollan, who eloquently and succinctly argues for switching u.s. subsidies from corn to carrots.
but fat people are not in any absolved of their responsibility for being fat.
"i'm ok, you're ok" is over. deal with it.
@hithere3: What about kids? Are they somehow responsible for being obese at 8? 10? 12 years old?
I think that if you're an adult and you know what you need to do to lose weight and you choose not to, then that's certainly on you. But do you blame small children? And as they grow up, at what point do they become "responsible" for reversing something that they had no control over?
jessica,
no. the kids' (almost assuredly fat) parents are. my comment was intended for adults only.
what's all the more tragic is that the kids' eating habits at that age are shown to be psychosocially ingrained, so if later in life, they decide to lose weight and live healthier lives, it will be all-the-more difficult.
you know what i love to see, especially in the fat state i live in? fat parents with healthy-weight kids. it's just as heart-warming a thing as kind words from strangers.
Well, than how about not showing fat people eating all the time on TV? I am fat, I happen to do a lot of other things than eating.
There are very few people who are fat due to genetics. Now, I don't mean fat by weight alone; I mean fat by inactivity and general overall dis-ease. You can be 225 pounds and be in shape, athletic, and at ease with yourself. The simple chocie is to stop eating so much bad food and eat better food. Filling up on almonds is better than french fries. Or gorge yourself on salad or yogurt or veggies. Just don't sit there and tell me you are fat and can't help it. I shudder to think we are encouraging obesity.
I'm all for accepting the reality that not everyone is the same size or shape, but c'mon, there is a difference between "not a size 4" and fat. Fat is not healthy, end of story. And given that no matter what kind of insurance we end up having, public or private, we will always end up subsidizing in some way the less than healthy. I don't want my money wasted on diabetes, heart attacks, etc. that could have been avoided if some self-control had been exercised.
Those considered 'overweight' live longest. Skinny people live the shortest amount of time... on average.
Not talking 'obese'.
but you are talking famished in shape people live the longest whether their thick or toned doesnt matter
That isn't true. The longest life span goes to those who live their lives on a reduced calorie diet (around 14-1500 calories a day) not the overweight and certainly not the obese. I don't know where you are getting your statistics.
Here is a NYT article on calorie restriction http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/nutrition/31agin.html
In shape people with low calorie diets have the longest life span by far. Feel free to continue making things up to counteract the plethora of research that shows fat is negatively correlated with health.
@politico
http://longevity.about.com/od/lifelongnutrition/a/overweight.htm (with sources)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4468001.stm
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-lon ger
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/24/overweight_live_longer/
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.c7aaeb7940626693fa418a1eab22 91f6.81&show_article=1
http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2009/06/new_study_finds_that_over weight_people_live_longer.html
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianeditors/2009/07/underweight_or_overw eight_good.html
http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/29/study-being-overweight-helps-yo u-live-longer/
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2009/06/portland_researchers_ find_slig.html
@pol
You're full of shit, dude.
Hmm, I think there is a qualifier you left out and that's "moderately." I have no problem with moderately overweight people nor do I care how long they live. It's the truly fat ones who end up being diabetic, have heart and various other health issues that end up being subsidized by everyone else -- it's those lardbutts I have issues with. I mean lardbutts in the nicest possible way.
Calorie restriction has been shown to extend life--in laboratory animals. We are not laboratory animals. We are highly evolved creatures who have to perform complex functions to survive. There is absolutely no proof that calorie restriction produces the same results in human beings.
Actually, diabetes (of the type 2 variety) is linked more to genes than to weight.
And no, you don't mean "lardbutts" in the nicest way possible. You're objectifying fat people by taking the term "people" out of your language by using such offensive terms. You're ignorant and a bigot.
How fat was she?
Why, she was so fat she made the record skip... At the radio station.
How fat was she?
Why, she was so fat, when she sat on a rainbow Skittles came out.
How fat was she?
Why, she was so fat that smaller fat chicks orbited around her.
How fat was she?
Why, she was so fat she was born with a silver shovel in her mouth.
How fat was she?
Why, she was so fat, you didn't walk with her - you walked among her.
How fat was she?
Why, she was so fat she had her own zip code.
How fat was she?
Why, she was so fat she... She... Oh, Christ, I can't go on... Peace... God bless...
How stupid and immature was he/she?
Stupid and immature enough to think these jokes were funny...
now let's see other eating disorder "bachelor" shows! how about bulimia next? or anorexia? these women are SICK. they aren't plump, they are unhealthfully overweight. this is no different than hosting a show with any eating disorder... because that's what these women have... an eating disorder.
there is NO DIFFERENCE in watching this show than one sporting skeletal anorexic women. this is sick and it makes it just that much more socially acceptable for people to be sick and continue the sick behavior that leads to their condition.
i'm skinny myself, but i'm the only one in my family that is... and it's not because i have more willpower. it's because i don't have this disease.
airing this show is tantamount to saying "lots of people are fat so it's okay to be fat... it's just another body type." would you say that of an anorexic being skinny? it's obscene. these people need to be helped, not paraded for their sickness.
You say you are skinny - I don't know how you define skinny, but imagine everyone would assume you have anorexia because of your body shape; I have a friend who is naturally very thin (i.e., underweight) and this happens to her very often, and it hurts and annoys her. Being fat (or "obese") is not an eating disorder and not every fat person is a binge eater, just as not every thin (or "underweight") person is anorexic. And I am not just making this up - read the literature on binge-eating disorder - the highest estimate that I have read was that 30% of "obese" people have BED. That leaves 70% who don't.
Oh, and in addition... eating disorders are terrible for the people who suffer from them and for their relatives and friends. I don't think any eating disorder should be glorified, but neither do I think that people who suffer from them should be excluded from society. You don't "choose" to have an ED - just as you don't choose to be schizophrenic or to have cancer.
fat is caused by overeating, by the way... not some weird disease... this is a behavioral problem. want proof? check out the link:
http://www.fooducate.com/blog/2009/05/12/new-research-obesity-caused-by- over-eating-not-under-excercise/
as it is a behavioral problem it is important that this sick behavior NOT be condoned.
Gee, one study. And only 1500 people were studied? That's kind of a small sample to use as the be-all, end-all declaration that "all fat people eat too much." If adults are more active than 30 years ago, couldn't this gain be due to increased muscle mass? And hasn't life expectancy increased since the 1970's? If so, then what's the problem besides your fervent belief that fat is a "sickness?" Tell me, given the recent large-scale studies that show overweight people live longer, how can we still be looking at weight gain as a bad thing?
Wow, I am shocked by the anger towards all the fat people in the country in these comments. Everyone's like "I dont judge, but these fat people are awful and it's all their own fault" AND "Dont get your fat all over me"
First off, yes I am overweight. I have ranged from a size 12 to a size 22 in my life and it's a constant battle that never stops. You can blame me if you want to, I don't blame anyone else for my situation, but that doesn't mean you get to be angry at me or throw me under the bus. So if you mean it, don't judge me. Don't leave postings telling me that I'm the reason your health insurance is expensive...(I have NEVER used my health insurance for an obesity related problem. Regardless of my size I am a pretty healthy person).
IN ADDITION!! Don't give me this insurance crap because I applied for personal insurance and was turned down because of my BMI. So there's no way I'm making it worse for your insurance, because your insurance won't cover me. So if your premiums go up, don't blame it on the fatties...we can't even get coverage.
Perhaps we need to look into more preventive care. Maybe we should monitor children so they end up 14 and 550 pounds. If the fat people really are the problem, why not a fat tax? If I weigh more, I pay more. The airlines don't have a problem with that. Skinny people get a tax credit and fat people have to pay. Balance your arguments that way, so you've got nothing to say about my body or my life because I pay for the privilege of being fat.
Seriously this is out of control people. It's the breakdown of our communities that are causing all of the problems in front of us. Teenage pregnancy is out of control, obesity is rampant and no one cares about anyone else but themselves. We've lost our neighbors, maybe that's why we've lost our way.
So next time you want to comment on someone else's life, maybe hold out a helping hand next time instead of a slap in the face....but no judgment here!
a recent study shows health problems related to obesity and significantly overweight people costs the u.s. medical system about $147 billion a year.
you know what irritates me the most about that?
those of us who make healthier choices -- for our own sake and to be less of a burden on our societies -- still end up paying for your poor choices via taxes and health care premiums.
you wonder why some of us are angry? it's because you and others like you are costing us money we would rather spend on ourselves and our loved ones.
ever heard of glass houses and glass stones? your life is literally so above par that you have the right to judge ANYONE else's life but your own?? You say you make your choices for society, well in what way are your comments benefiting society?
Please let me know how my weight is causing your taxes to rise? The taxes I pay myself, by the way, cause I'd be really curious about how you prove that one. And as for health care costs, obese people and smokers have to pay much larger premiums for personal plans if they can get coverage at all so it's not like we aren't already paying for the "privilege" of our "bad choices and unhealthy lifestyle".
You have no right to judge me or my lifestyle since you have no idea how I live or eat. I have 0 insurance claims in relation to my weight and the taxes idea is a bunch of bull.
You want some judgment back at ya? I dont wonder why you are angry, I know you're angry because you have an unfulfilling life and have no choice but to turn your venom on others because you can't bear to turn it on yourself.
Anger causes stress, which causes serious health problems. Calm down, have a bite to eat.
ALMAW1: i have every right to judge you. perhaps you don't understand the meaning of "right"? i have the right to judge you, and moreover, i WILL judge you if i believe what you are doing is wrong.
whether or not my life is "above par" is irrelevant. i do not believe people should stop criticizing each other simply because they have faults -- that's a really stupid point of view, actually. and entirely untenable.
all that matters is whether fat people should be demeaned, criticized, and berated for being selfish and oblivious to how they harm their societies -- even their own children.
and clearly, i believe they should.
listen, social pressure is preferable to passing laws that penalize you for being overweight, no? count your blessings and calories.
Ha! Good good. Then let me demean you for something similar.
"O my... look, there's a 3 in that commenter's username. You know what that means, right? They're lazy... Everyone with a 3 in their username is lazy. And they're costing me money because they're so lazy. And, I hear, they don't shower very often."
Doesn't that sound idiotic? You're doing the same thing. Just because someone is fat doesn't mean they're all of these things. It just means... they're fat. Judge me. But guess what? Studies show that demeaning fat people makes them LESS likely to seek help. You're going against your own goal. Judge me! I'm not going to change. I'm healthy. I love my body. If you don't, get out of town.
Since a large portion of health insurance in this country is provided by employers and group members pay the same premiums, then yes, obese people are costing me more. Throughout life obese people will almost always have more health problems than non obese people. Talk to health professionals who have worked in hospitals for several years and you will find that most hospitals have had extensive construction work done to accomodate obese patients -- doors widened,ceiling lifts installed, etc. Those costs are passed on to the consumers. Of course, people who smoke, drink heavily, and adopt other unhealthy habits cost the rest of us as well, they aren't part of this discussion. If we want to address the issues around obesity, including social prejudice, health care costs, and others, we all need to be brutally honest or opinions will become increasingly polarized and nothing changes.
There's always going to be people across the spectrum. You'll have overweight people who eat enough caloric intake for two people a day. You'll have overweight people who exercise and watch what they eat. You have different racial backgrounds that make you more succeptable to storing fat.
It's never as cut and dry as these blanket comments make them. These comments betray your prejudices and ignorance. Critize if you will but at least make it constructive and make sure you specify who your talking about.
I suppose its acceptable that some like being that size, and are proud of it.
I don't see why they would have a hard time dating, there are lots of fat guys out there, find someone with the same body values as yourself... Its not a rarity or anything...they are everywhere!
I a little bit cringed when one of the contestants referred to herself as "normal'--- Not nice. If she accepts her body, she ought to extend the same courtesy to others---I accept that she is the size she is, what else is one to do? Its their body, be as fat as you like.
Its not acceptable for me to be like that however, I'm not going there. Looks very uncomfortable.
As congress passes a universal health care bill, taxing bad foods to get America healthier... this whole "proud to be fat" movement will cease to be. I get the pride/self respect issue but all this really is is counter-arguing the unhealthy super thin female archetype with the equally unhealthy "plus size" type.
Let's get real folks. Only in America could people say they're proud to be fat. Isn't gluttony a f***ing sin?!?!
A lot of ancient, pre-historic carvings of human females depict them as being fat. At that time it WAS something to be proud of.
jdk-jdk...these links might prove useful to you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_art
http://witcombe.sbc.edu/ARTHLinks.html
in your defense, the ideal woman has been depicted differently throughout history.
stancher, it doesn't only happen in america, and i'd refrain from mentioning anything about "sin." i'm not quite a believer, but the list of seven does mention "pride" and "wrath" as being sins as well.
i thought i commented on this already. please jdk, look up the definition for "prehistoric."
one more thing, i also like paintings and photographs were women were fuller than today's standard. fluffy to me seems much more feminine.
Back in the times depicted in most of those pictures, if you had the money to be overweight, you were extremely affluent. Nowadays you are simply gluttonous.
JDK is quite right. Many fertility goddesses were large, round women. Fat women with pale skin were thought to be beautiful and wealthy.
And duh! Look at life! Every time a society found more to eat and ate more, they became stronger, healthier and SURVIVED! Nothing's going to die here. Fat Acceptance will live on because EVERYONE fat or thin, short, tall, able-bodied and not deserves to love their body just as it is!
You want a good reality/contest TV show? "The Biggest Loser" is awesome.
God, there are so many ignorant, uninformed idiots in these comments, I want to puke. YOU CANNOT DETERMINE SOMEONE'S HEALTH SIMPLY BY LOOKING AT THEM.
There are thin people who overeat, fat people who run every day, binge-eating thin people, anorexic fatties, high and low cholesterol in EVERY SINGLE WEIGHT CLASS, and just because you happen to see fat people at your local McDonald's does NOT mean every. single. fat person eats McDonald's every. single. day. I saw a gay guy masturbate in public! ALL GAYS ARE PERVERTS. (Isn't it fun to make unfounded proclamations?)
God, do some legitimate research (hint: not from blogs or websites sponsored by drug companies) on the actual factors that drive up health care costs and get back to me. (Actually, don't get back to me, you fucking morons.)
Beg to differ with the author. It is and has apparently been everybody's "damned business" for years whether or not someone smokes because of the health care costs involved with using tobacco.
So it is my business if you're a lard-ass.
I wonder how much stupidity has cost this nation?
Yes, that's true. But the detrimental affects of smoking are well-documented and the resulting "penalty" in regards to health care applies equally to people of all weights, sizes and both genders.
What bothers me is that society focuses so much on weight and not on health. An acquaintance of mine is an "ideal" weight, but she's a functional alcoholic with anorexia. She refuses to exercise and rejects healthy food choices when she does eat. By societal standards, she appears thin and "healthy." Her marriage is a train wreck and her socializing is with her drinking buddies at bars. Her sister has always been a bit on the zaftig side but follows a healthy diet and is a regular at dance and yoga classes. She has a glass of wine occasionally but doesn't drink to excess. She's single but has a wide circle of friends. Neither smokes. Who do you think is the healthiest?
My point is that appearances can be deceiving. Many people are thin because they smoke and/or have poor eating habits, not because they practise good health habits.
What this country has lost perspective and focus on is moderation. Healthy eating and exercise would result in a healthier population, period. Practicing moderation in all things, eating healthy foods and exercising will not only increase the chances of you living longer, but you will undoubtedly have a higher quality of life.
BTW, whoever thinks existing on 1400-1500 calories a day is living a life that is rewarding has probably never tried restricting themselves to this caloric intake for sustained periods. So what if you live longer with this practice of caloric restriction? Unless you have the spiritual qualities of Mahatma Gandhi, you'll be a grouchy pain in the arse to live with!
I see a group of 20 women far more beautiful and desirable than any group of size 4 supermodels could ever hope to be. I like big girls and I am proud of it. Don't give up ladies. I'm taken. But there are many other men out there who would proudly walk into a crowded room with a BBW on our arm. As they say, "Go big or go home!"
As far as the rest of you haters, rent Shallow Hal with Jack Black and Gwyneth Paltrow. It will give you some laughs and some important life lessons.
hahaa yeah shallow hal will teach you all you have to know but hen again those size 4 supermoldels could have better personalities than the size twenties
what's that english idiom? "at least your heart is on the right place"?
Thank you.
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