Good point, WestVillager. The Israelis, I think, are used to the US being a one-sided peace broker on their behalf. So much so, they see any slight deviation on our part as betrayal. They are so spoiled that even a temporary suspension of settlement-building was too much to ask of them.

They claim they will give up the illegal settlements for peace, but they can't even make a good faith effort and suspend expanding them just for a few weeks in order to jump-start the peace process. The Palestinians are not faultless either, we all know how unhelpful they can be. But the Israelis are our allies, and I'm stunned many of them call the president a Jew-hater.

WV you are absolutely right, if we don't agree w/ them they take their toys and go home so to speak to stolen land. Its their way or the highway. I'm sick of listening to the whining, while they undermine any peace process and take our 2 billion every year. Smarten up people.

I'm pro Israel but if they bomb Iran against our wishes and oil goes to $300.00 a barrel and gasoline to $8.00 a gallon causing the US and world economy to tank, why should I consider Israel a friend of the United States?

tblunt,

That won't happen. The Arab oil producing states are just as afraid of Iran as Israel is. They will make up for any loss of Iranian oil production.

WV...Israel is our ally, so we support them and will defend them. If Obama turns away it will destroy him politically but it won't much matter to Israel they will destroy any power that chooses to attack them. I hope the "Palestine's" enjoy Gaza because that's all they are going to get.

Do you have many friends WV? I can see where you've got their back. Don't get me wrong, I understand friends don't agree 100% of the time and when that time comes you take your friend aside and have a nice discussion about the disagreement. You don't throw your pal under the bus in front of said friend's enemies. That's called betrayal. This is how you lose friends.

You should know the Palestinians will never negotiate with Israel or make any compromises. I have no idea why Democrats believe this will happen. This is just fodder for the left to give the image they are serious about peace. The people have no interest in peace with Israel. They are only interested in being rid of Israel.

johnwr3 and clearthinker, just because Israel is our ally doesn't mean we can let them do as they please. Would you let a friend drive drunk?

I see it more like an intervention than a betrayal. The public dis was a bit shocking. The friend feels betrayed, sure, but I can't blindly get my buddy's back if he wants to build a home additon on the neighbors property. I'd have to say to him, can't you just stay put? We were allies with the Soviet Union, then our friend made choices we didn't like. Dropping back from 100 to 80% (or whatever) doesn't mean Israel isn't still a better, closer ally than Palestine.

If you were to go back and read any of Glenda's posts, you will see that she is a narrow-minded GOP parrot head. Her posts are without any intellectual analyses and are usually hate-filled diatribes that are quite Palinesque.

He has not been the Palestians the way he has gone after the Israelis. Not even close. Abbas won't accept Israel as a Jewish state. I'm not even talking about Hamas.

@frontman9000
I'm familiar with this apparent fact. However, engagement and debate are more productive than name-calling.

@Glenda1976
Could you provide me with a few examples to back up your assertions? Thank you.

When God made them the "chosen people" , I don't think he was worried about oil prices.

Yea lets be friends with only the ones with Oil! Like Syria and Iran! Brilliant! We've had such great success basing our foreign policy decisions on oil in the past! I elect you sec of state!

hi embers,its sailormoon. what happened to you. You are on the bandwagon against Israel?Israel could not exist,????You would want as an allie,all the countries with the oil that live to hate the west,, the jews, that oppress and abuse their own people. Who envy the freedom,,democracy,fairness greatness of the US. all we stand for.After Sept 11,you could hear a hush everywhere where muslims.were, deep inside we infidels had been attacked,!!! innocently,!!!!unexpectedly.!!!!!Just like they always do. the Ajmadinajhons,whatevever,Kadafis, terrorist,animals and murderers.You can bet the Us alliance with Israel has to do more with trust, of the democracy and that they are warriors,fighting to survive,and that are the right hand of the US.You really believe anyone can trust any of the Arab states?I thought you respected Israel and the jews.!!Without US training.???The mosad,was trained by the US.Not one Arab country would stand by ,the infidels,perverted,sexually,free,women oriented,gay accepting society we are.Allah allows them to blow us up and reward them in heaven.

@sailormoon, the so called hush was more of a lack of media coverage.

oooh Embers, you're in so much trouble now with all those, in the US and Israel, who believe that the world should allow Israel to break and violate every inernational law about human rights, laws of decency and fairness, and commit war crimes, which we are supposed to detest if any one except Israel committed them, with total impunity, just because It is Israel, who is above all laws, we're talking about; and how any one dares to tell the Israeli emperor that he has no clothes on.

Isarel, with its God's chosen, racist joke, and its fanatic supporters in the US have only their demented, rigid and racist ideology and interests in mind, and to hell with any one else's interests, including the US's. The US helped in building many mosnters before who turned out against it, and Isaerl is rapidly and rabidly joining them.

Oh, don't forget that you'll be labeled from now on, like the many who had the guts to speak out against Isarel's atrocious wrongs, an anti-semitic.

You beat me to the punch, rahgolf.

Glenda, that's BS.

Exactly...they've actually listened to what the man has said...looked closely at whom he has associated himself with. Thus, they don't trust him. Look at what he did during the campaign. When he had an advisor who was caught saying something anti-Israeli, that advisor was thrown under the bus (for a while), yet eventually all were forgiven and allowed back in the fold. That is what our president has done. nice man, right?

Obama has been a wash out in dealing with domestic crises. Has he shown any more resolve or skill in handling international problems?

The Israeli-Palestinian situation is a particularly thorny one in that one side does not recognize the other sides right to exist. Palestinian extremists have publicized their intention to wipe the country of Israel off the map.

Obama has no track proven record in the world of international diplomacy. Who knows what he will or will not do when it comes to the Israelis and Palestinians? I think he himself has only a sketchy idea.

Evangelical Christians care about Jews but not because they make them feel "warm & fuzzy." Fact is, EC's look at Israel as a necessary piece in their belief in the apocalypse. They need Israel to help facilitate the coming of Jesus. Once he arrives, they will give Jews the choice of accepting Christ or burning with the rest of the sinners. They certainly don't see them as equals.

frontman9000-

I didn't say they care about Jews, i said Israel. Once again, Israel may be a jewish state, but it does not speak for all jews. Netanyahu is not like the pope for jews. Israel is not the vatican.

Sadly, they come from an ever widening divide of under classes who opt for the comfort of belief over the discomfort of true thinking. H.G. Wells wrote, "The whole of civilization is a race between education and catastrophe." It has never been more evident than today when so-called modern people have learned to dress, speak and behave as they are told, but don't have a clue as to what it means to actually deliberate on their own. We do know what it looks like when it rears its ugly head: racism, misogyny, virulent anti-semitism, death cults, demagoguery, and rabid jingoism.

It's the Internet. Thinking comments on a blog are super representative of society is like saying Bill O'Reilly is too b/c he sold a million books.

Especially men like John Hagee, who support Israel with their right hand, while urging the world toward the apocalypse with their left.

roadrunner,you bet, the money going to Karzai,Mushariff and went to arafat It never goes to their people. Palestinians are arabs, and in reality the Jews have been better to them than the Arab countries who do not want them and have a name for them. They just use them for an excuse to hate.And as the arab countries hate this country its,freedom, its acceptance of others, its allowing women to grow,not opressing and abusing its people,our democracy,there is not one arab country that felt we had been murdered and attacked on sept 11.Quietly,they all,(many) felt we desrved it Allah bless !!! Israel is the one true ally of the US,no one else there will shed blood

Actually, the Palestinians did have a country, it was called Palestine. A place where Palestinians & Jews lived side-by-side (prior to the exodus of European Jews into Palestine). The British carved up Palestine, the Israeli's got a portion & Jordan got a larger portion. The Palestinians got the boot.

As for the US giving Israel all the money we are spending on Iraq, Afghanistan & Pakistan, give me a break. Did you say the same when Bush/Cheney invaded Iraq based on a lie? Did you say the same about Afganistan after 9/11? Would you like to see the Taliban & Al-Qaeda get their hands on the nuclear arsenal that Pakistan has? As far as technology goes, over the years we have shared some with Israel & we have also provided & sold them armament. What technology we didn't share with them they sent spies to our country to steal.

Where is it written that right or wrong we must always support Israel? Are we suppose to look the other way when the government of Israel sanctions apartheid against the Palestinians? Are we suppose to look the other way when the government of Israel kills or commits atrocities against innocent Palestinian men, women & children?.

After the holocaust, the Jews said, "Never Again". They didn't mean that to be never again would a holocaust cause the death of any human beings of any race or religious belief. They meant never again for themselves would such a thing happen. I support them in their right to exist but I do not support them in their belief that the Palestinian people do not have a right to exist within a State of their own. Israel must stop building in the occupied territory & return that land to the Palestinian people.

I really don't care what Obama's popularity rating is in Israel. Once & for all, we have a President who is demanding a peace settlement between Israel & Palestine. I say, way to go Barack!

There have been Jews living in the land of Israel since biblical times - as long as Arabs have lived here.

Yes,. actually, if you go by the bible anyways,.. they're cousins.

To UpstateNY read the Balfour declaration, it cites surveys taken back to 1918 that state jewish population had depleted to well under 10%. The majority of jews in israel are descendants of russian american and european jews that migrated from pre world war 2 to post world war 2. This is fact. As far back as the crusades the majority of the population in the levant was christian and muslim, before the crusades muslim. You probably have to go back to ancient times (late egyptian, greek) to find a period when jews dominated that area. I know, I know, the muslims and christians just leased the area for a few thousand years.

The problem isn't American Jews, or Israeli Jews. The problem is a large faction of the Zionists who have taken the wrong approach to securing Israel for the past 30 years.

johnwr3,thank G-d I found someone that I can relate to.That is right they are arabs, and deep inside, the Arabs hate the west for our freedom,our lack of opression,the growth of women, our democracy,although slowly this beautiful nation is turning ugly. There is extreme hatred of the President here. 50 % non jews hate him with a vengance. The jew continues to be the scapegoat. and which Arab loves the palestinians.??They use them as the cause, !!! of all the problems. they could care less, and they have their names for the palestinians. they know what they call them.

johnwr3

By your logic, America does not exist. It never existed. We are just squatters who bred like rabbits and stole the land from the Indians, the rightful owners of this land. It's not a wholly untenable position, I just hope you realize and understand the results of your argument.

Why is stole in quotes? Are you denying that Anglo-Saxons killed the native peoples and stole their land?

Did I forget something? Wasn't there British colonialism before the UN was soooo generous? And aren't many Ashkenazi Jews the descendents of converted Central Europeans? And where does the Chinese Jewish community --they all do look Chinese-- which preceded modern contacts in China come from?

And then there the probable fact that the so called Arabs living in the area are actually the descendants of Jews who at some point converted to Islam? And perhaps the Jews that have always lived in the area are the descendants of converted Muslims?

Judaism and Islam and Christianity are religions. Ethnicity is based on culture which is learned and is not a genetic trait. The notion of "race" has been debunked by physical anthropologists and geneticists. However, if you must go by the outdated notions of "racial classification", Jews and Arabs used to be classified as belonging to the same "Semitic" race.

So make your choice. Do you want to call upon some of the bright stars of past Judaism (what would Herzl think of the way Israel is treating the Palestinians? There's no doubt that he would be part of the Israeli left). Or do you want to trap yourself in an endless back and forth feuding process and its inevitable slide into the tenets of Nazi ideologists about "blood and land?" This is translated into now slotting Palestinians/Arabs into the past slot assigned to Jews (interlopers in countries where they had lived for countless generations) while right wing and conservative Israelis are now assigned to the superior "race" slot. (sometimes the euphemism "modern" or "Westerners" v. "Arabs" or Muslims is used --as if all Muslims were Arabs and all Arabs Muslims!).

The adoption of Nazi ideology by Jews breaks my heart. It means that the Nazi won after all, doesn't it?

UpstateNY,
PS: History didn't start in 1947 and didn't end in mythical biblical times.

But, yes, there are real anti-Semites/racists around, unfortunately plenty of them. You and your family obviously have been spared contact with them or you wouldn't confuse anti-Semitism with criticism of the policies of the state of Israel or of the Israeli lobby in the US.

Ooops, I reread the whole of Redspruce's post. He does sound like an anti-Semite/racist because he stereotypes all Jews into one category. There are many American Jews who disapprove of Israel's present policies. In addition American Jews have been in this country as long as everybody else, except native Americans.... so we are either all interlopers, or none of us are.

Well maybe you can supply me with your facts...seems that the world calls this OCCUPIED Territory. How did the Israelis get there?...did they not take the land after the war? who is attacking who? ,,,ok you look at this from 10000 feet I look at this from ground level and human nature. Every day land is confiscated, buildings erected on farmland that these people have held for many many years....take a man's land and future away and you get a caged animal that only knows how to hate. There is only one way I see ifs for a leader on the Israel side to say ...enough....

Yes, Israel took territory after wars. But how many of those wars that led to the acquisition of territory were ones in which the Israelis were the instigators?

If a mugger gets beaten up by his would be victim and loses his weapon, you don't feel sorry for the mugger.

Refuguy wrote: "Well maybe you can supply me with your facts...seems that the world calls this OCCUPIED Territory. How did the Israelis get there?...did they not take the land after the war? who is attacking who? ,,,ok you look at this from 10000 feet I look at this from ground level and human nature. Every day land is confiscated, buildings erected on farmland that these people have held for many many years....take a man's land and future away and you get a caged animal that only knows how to hate. There is only one way I see ifs for a leader on the Israel side to say ...enough"

Refguy, you're very right! Israel's policies are unfortunately so shortsighted. By pushing people to the brink, they can turn even the most peaceful person into a someone who's desperate and has no longer anything to lose...

"Dealing with the Palestinians is like herding cats. "

Dealing with both groups is more like herding porcupines.

ThinkAgain, why don't you think again? You're being patronizing and ignorant. The Palestinians had a democratic election but the world refused to recognize the govt they elected. As for they being more partisan than other people, look around you...

You are absolutely correct. Rahn Emanuel and David Axelrod are as anti-Semetic as Obama. They have no connection to Israel whatsoever, although it is sickening to hear them laud their "jewishness" eating smoked meat at Manny's or boasting of serving in the Israeli army. They have lost their true Jewishness and can no longer identify with the Jewish people or their centuries old homeland. And everybody in Israel knows it.

Wow Kateliz please don't ever agree with me again. Rahm Emanuel and Axelrod are anti-Semetic? Obama is anti-Semetic? That's absurd. And actually, as an American Jew I take offense to that. Because I don't agree with 90% of the decisions Israel makes, and I have a big connection with Israel, including family.

There's a HUGE difference between seeing both sides to the conflict and being anti semetic. And above and beyond that, theres a HUGE difference between disagreeing with Israel and being anti-semetic.

Why r u wasting your time trying to educate these unmitigated buffoons? A few people here are actually making cogent statements, like Kati67, but too many are just spewing undigested opinions they got from some pundit. It reminds me of a libertarian who said they're against affirmative action. She was a young white woman who just graduated college. I thought she must know affirmative action benefits white woman more than any other group (blacks are 13% of population hispanic (non-blacks little more than that)). I guess she was just really anti-gov aide or intervention. She then proceeded to tell me she was currently on welfare!!!

Again majormoderate, you act as if intelligence and being correct are valid points!! This has to do with the fact that Obama is a terrorist-nazi-fascist-communist-marxist-liberal. Who is trying to stop us from going to war with Iran (as if we cant multitask, we have the technology).
Obama clearly favors Palestine, he's sponsoring legislation to provide free healthcare to palestinians while providing death panels for Israel and american citizens. I was listening to Glenn Beck today and he announced 2 /31. A march to celebrate and show our solidarity to our Israeli bretheren. Were going to start in Key West florida and march straight to the knesset. It'll take place of course during the last day of february next year, and it'll be held in a town hall style format. Here's to freedom!!!

Who says it's their land? Some Jewish people have lived there just as long, they just weren't always in power. In fact, the Romans took it from the Jews. They just came back and reclaimed it.

No, they were offered 95% of the West Bank (settlers would be removed, See Gaza for how), East Jerusalem as a capital yet, Yassir initiated the 2nd intefadah instead. Only during a brief period after the 2nd Jewish revolt (around 125-130 CE) have jews been a minority in Israel.

But seriously, look at Palestinian school books for maps of Israel...you won't find them. The very name Palestine was coined by the Roman to delegitimize Jewish claims to Judea/Israel. The root is found in the word Philistine/Pelishtim...

But back tot he matter at hand. The Palestinians were offered all of the Gaza Strip, 95% of the West Bank, and a capital...yet they chose not to accept it. Instead they set about murdering Israelis...again. After their withdrawal from Gaza, you'd think that would have started talks...all it started was daily rocket attacks. If Mexico launched 10-20 rockets into Arizona, New Mexico and Texas...would we just sit back and watch? Or..would we do something? Yet we expect the Israelis to lay down and die. How big of us.

No, they were offered 95% of the West Bank (settlers would be removed, See Gaza for how), East Jerusalem as a capital yet, Yassir initiated the 2nd intefadah instead. Only during a brief period after the 2nd Jewish revolt (around 125-130 CE) have jews been a minority in Israel.

But seriously, look at Palestinian school books for maps of Israel...you won't find them. The very name Palestine was coined by the Roman to delegitimize Jewish claims to Judea/Israel. The root is found in the word Philistine/Pelishtim...

But back tot he matter at hand. The Palestinians were offered all of the Gaza Strip, 95% of the West Bank, and a capital...yet they chose not to accept it. Instead they set about murdering Israelis...again. After their withdrawal from Gaza, you'd think that would have started talks...all it started was daily rocket attacks. If Mexico launched 10-20 rockets into Arizona, New Mexico and Texas...would we just sit back and watch? Or..would we do something? Yet we expect the Israelis to lay down and die. How big of us.

Can you spell WHITE PHOSPHOROUS?

Yes, I think the Native American Indians want some land back. A lot of land.

ThinkAgain is right, IMO, and has not in any way endorsed Hamas or any other group. He's just telling it like it is. If you don't believe him, go to the library, history section.

ummm...do you think that the "Green" Revolution slowly smoldering inside Iran would have occured had they NOT seen genuine elections going on right next door? How dense do you have to be. Just get on the 'net and google "green revolution" and see what comes up. They're not speaking in english because they want to hide it from the mullahs...they're using english so that the outside world can see/hear what is going on... why do you think they've started using signs in english? So the mullahs/government can practice english? NOT.

Iran is smoldering because the younger people there are tired of the corruption of the religious dominiated government. They are tired of it all, and see something that hasn't occured outside of Israel...reasonably fair elections. That's not something that they've ever had before. Why else would they be protesting every Friday in their millions?

Hilarious.