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The Ugliest Health-Care Debate
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You think the political jousting in the Senate Finance Committee is rough? Wait until you see the right’s rumor machine, Betsy McCaughey, square off with big-government lover Anthony Weiner.
If you like partisan combat, the New York University/Langone Medical Center in Manhattan was the place to be Monday night. Betsy McCaughey, former lieutenant governor of New York and the leading purveyor of discredited right-wing health-care rumors, squared off against U.S. Democratic Rep. Anthony Weiner, a once and future mayoral hopeful who’s called for a complete federal takeover of health care.
The results were as explosive as advertised, bringing the virulence of a summer town-hall meeting—complete with heckling, shouts of “liar!” and signs conjuring socialism to one of America’s most liberal ZIP Codes.
Weiner opened with a detailed explanation of why, like 86 other members of Congress, he supports a single-payer system, which has fallen off the table in the current health-care negotiations. He likened it to Medicare, which operates in a similar fashion with lower overhead than private insurance. “Get the idea out of your head that this is a free market,” he said. “It's not.”
“This bill is a medical assault on seniors!” McCaughey shouted multiple times over the audience’s boos and applause.
But before ending his opening 15-minute presentation, Weiner made a pre-emptive strike against his opponent, dutifully listing the many independent organizations and news outlets that have judged McCaughey's claims to be false, from Politifact to John McCain adviser Gail Wilensky (some have gone so far as to label her a liar). He prepared the audience for McCaughey's usual modus operandi, which she's employed for the better part of 15 years: Present a nonstop flurry of page numbers and out-of-context quotes that are impossible to evaluate in real time.
“The theme is whenever there's a discussion about saving money in Medicaid, Medicare, or anything, she says someone's going to die,” he said. “When there’s any discussion about having inefficiency—uh uh, someone's going to die from that, too.”
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• Lee Siegel: Where’s Health Care’s Star Power? McCaughey followed her script, presenting a flurry of indecipherable excerpts from legislation, medical journals, and studies, with little context and even less time to absorb the dense text on screen. She jumped from complaints about the length of the bill—complaining it was not written “in plain English”—and repeatedly demanded that members of Congress pledge to read it in its entirety before voting.
“This isn't a problem of people not reading the bill,” Weiner responded. “In your case, it's a problem of reading the bill and then lying about what’s in it.” It was enough to make the deliberations now unfolding on Capitol Hill seem like a Miss Manners tutorial.
McCaughey seemed exceptionally agitated. She frequently raised her voice to a shout even when she had the floor, banged on the table, and even marching toward Weiner to address him directly at times—apparently forgetting how that ploy turned out in another fabled New York debate, pitting then-Senate candidate Hillary Clinton against Rick Lazio.
“This bill is a medical assault on seniors!” she shouted multiple times over the audience's boos and applause.
The outbursts undercut her appeal. McCaughey’s special talent—the one that drives the left bonkers—is her ability to deliver demonstrably false statements with a calm, confident authority, dismissing any contrary information as the feeble efforts of an uninformed mind. She goes on offense, and leaves it to her opponent to chase after her and point out the errors of her ways. But by the time they’ve done that, it’s often too late—and her assertions have hardened into received wisdom, helping her carry the debate.
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IncredulousGeezer
Jon Stewart handled Betsy perfectly a few weeks ago.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-20-2009/betsy-mccaughey-pt- -1
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-20-2009/betsy-mccaughey-pt- -2
He was prepared perfectly for her barrage of page citations, out of context quotes, etc. and left her pretty much in a shambles when she couldn't explain their pertinence & connections.
Sounds as if Weiner had her number in the same way. Too bad he wasn't quick enough to turn her call for more intense government regulation of health-care practices against her, but perhaps most of the audience saw that inconsistency anyway.
reardongalt
Jon Stewart? Jeez, you do realize the effin moron is a comedian, don't you?
Un freakin' believable. You people got nothing.
IncredulousGeezer
That's just what's needed to counter the lies of these knaves, charlatans and ditzy blondes. Laugh 'em out of the place :)
Mercy1981
Because you can't debate the issue, you go after the person.
StellaRay
Stewart is more like a court jester than a comedian. The court jester was the only one who could get away with criticizing the king, as long as he made the king laugh. In one half hour Jon Stewart does more to educate the public about the absurdities of Washington than 24 hours of cable news comes close to.
And btw, we've got laughs, thanks to Stewart, which beats the hell out of crying over politics. Without a sense of humor you've got nothing. Go look for yours. You'll feel better when you find it.
reardongalt
Mercy, how does one debate an issue, when their source of information is a comedian? Even I am not that good.
ctheokas
And conservatives regularly get schooled by these comedians. So you guys have even less than that.
Christober
"Un freakin' believable. You people got nothing."
Interesting take if not completely ignorant. Is it then your supposition that Betsy McCaughey is in fact telling the truth when she refers to this health care bill killing people? Facts are facts sir, no matter who delivers them. Set your strawman up elsewhere.
sippewissett
Being a comedian does not mean that a person is a moron. Stewart and most other MSM comedians are bright, witty and on the money; otherwise they wouldn't have a show. So what if Stewart skewered her? Do his points about her lying have less validity than if a Faux News talking head calls her on her lies? What IS your point?
Liberalprick70
Actually, that fact is quite sad. See, conservatives and right-wingers r so stupid and their arguments ring so hollow that they can be shot down and made to look bad by a fake news anchor...
waustingray
so how do you explain glen beck, cause that dude is friggen hilarious
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n--Y--morecowbellNorCalGladiator
Glen Beck doesn't even deserve to be catagorized with the likes of Stewart. The reason Stewart is so funny is because what he says is the truth behind what many of these politicians, both on the far left and right, try to hide from us. He called McCaughey out on her lies better than any politician has yet because he IS that much smarter. McCaughey is a very intelligent woman, however she uses that intelligence to manipulate the conservative emotions people have for her own agenda. Stewrat is just more intelligent and beat her at her own game.
Gothicfather
...and you do realize that he eviscerated the likes of Tucker Carlson and Jim Cramer? You do also realize that more people are tuning into his show and Colbert's to actually get a better handle on the current events. Nightly news is not your Huntley and Brinkley or Cronkite anymore. In a time of crisis, it may be that our comedians are the only ones capable and willing to deliver a modicum of truth, even if it is slightly slanted.
newswoman
Rearend, where have you been? Don't you know the young get their news from Jon's show? And he is very smart about politics. And he did make McCaughy look silly. She appeared on Morning Joe and was shouted down by Joe and Rep. Weiner. I will say this about her, tho', she is not easily intimidated, even tho' she is wrong.
fred88
If a comedian like Jon Stewart is so insignificant and ineffectual why did Betsy McCaughey have to resign (i.e. fired) from her position as the director of Cantel Medical Corp. medical board shortly after her appearance on The Daily Show?
http://washingtonindependent.com/56008/death-panel-myth-creator-betsy-mccau ghey-resigns-from-medical-board
Just a coincidence? Or maybe it was a consequence of her pathetic performance that even a comedian could bring out of her. Just because someone is a comedian doesn't mean they can't be smart and be taken seriously. It just means they don't have a responsibility to be taken seriously. Unlike today's journalists.
AlanD2
reardongalt: When a mere comedian can demolish Betsy, you conservatives have got nothing left...
reardongalt
Alan, I enjoy your posts. Even though we are polar opposites on the political scale, you maintain a level of civility. Thank you.
AlanD2
reardongalt: Thank you. And though I rarely agree with you, your posts don't descend to the depths of name-calling that many here do. Keep up the good work.
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n--Y--morecowbellthebraveinvertibrate
She doesn't want doctors to stick to peoples' living wills? How is that not an assualt to seniors?
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n--Y--morecowbellnewswoman
Watch the sexism! Pick on her views. No ad hominum remarks. That ruins your argument. She is rightwing, but not a 'floozy'.
Baddchild
Was Sarlin one of the "doctors" team 0bama were handing out white coats to?
AlanD2
Baddchild is a troll - notice "0bama" instead of "Obama".
Baddchild
AlanR2D2 is a droid.....
AlanD2
Baddchild: 'Droids are smarter than trolls any day...
idicula1979
I'm sure you (Baddchild) being a consevative you will take that story and run with it (damn the fact).
newswoman
Correction: McCaughey appeared on Dylan Ratigan's show, not Morning Joe. A senior moment.
polderjongetje
So Obama was handing out white lab coats to get them to work? How's that bad?
Remember how Bush ordered Coast Guard helicopters and crew diverted to act as a backdrop for President Bush's photo-op in New Orleans? During the Search-and-Rescue operations in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina?
winterparkmom
She was turned upside down this morning on Dylan Ratigans show. She tried to say that the only way to save money in medicare was to follow the cbo estimate to change eligibility age from 65 to 70. When Wiener and Ratigan pointed out that that was basically leaving millions of seniors without care and that that was essentially killing seniors, she went off the deep end and got all discombobulated.
This woman is a menace. Stop giving her valid outlets to spew her lies and let her stick to her fringe, looney meetings.
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n--Y--morecowbellmikefromArlington
Holy cow it's Orly Taitz without the accent!
winston1
Looks to me like Betsy won.
BullMoose
Oh my goodness gracious, it is the want to be aristocrat Winston.
Why don't you change your name to Winston Von Baron DeSnoot Winthorpe.
That is smarmy enough a nme for a silly little pompous fascist.
sippewissett
Based on what? Weiner got there first, described how she'd fight...with lies. And she did that exactly, along with losing her cool. McCaughey is a lame brain.
When Stewart had pre-empted her rifling through pages, he labeled her a liar and divisive and she just looked at him blankly. I don't think it registered in the moment that Stewart was calmly telling her that she is loathsome. I thought she had disappeared in disgrace, but she has no conscience so she's back. Glad to see you are her supporter because it leaves no ambiguity as to where you stand against reform and care for the American people.
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n--Y--morecowbellLindam11
So screaming, not answering questions, flinging untrue accusations and interrupting is winning a debate? If it were a real debate she would have been disqualified. Oh, well. What is it about the right and big haired women?
mathomas
Looks like Betsy won to you because she says exactly what you want to hear -- and you are willingly gullible enough to believe her gigantic lies.
EdinNJ
What I love about Betsy is that healthcare reform is going to pass and with a public option despite her going around lying for all these months. Her very public failure this time around ensures that the lobbyist money she receives will dry up and we will never have to hear from her again.
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n--Y--morecowbellr-c-jackman
Allow both public and private to operate across state lines.
newswoman
Let's hope.
jsdc007
This woman is a menace. The only reason she gets air time is because she's a loud, obnoxious, demanding blond with porn queen hair. If she looked like Bella Abzug, she'd never make it.
sippewissett
Ditto Palin and Bachmann. All the crazies: appearance over brains.
BullMoose
That witch needs a nose job.
biglover
Yeah, the holes are so big you could drive a truck up them
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n--Y--morecowbellDondo747
Why do these cable stations keep inviting loonies like McCaughey? Oh, right. Ratings. It's all about ratings, not policy.
pinkoursula
If Rep. Weiner is a "masochist or a sadist", then I must be a voyeur because I really love watching him debate.
lrf925
It's notable that this debate was a real debate between right and left (basically, gov. will destroy everything vs. gov should take over health care), as contrasted with the actual debate going on in Congress which is between right and center (gov. will destroy everything vs. we should make some very modest reforms that the insurance companies are ok with and not even have a public option). How anyone who considers him/herself a moderate could support the Republican party these days is beyond me.
biglover
She had her ass handed to her this morning on Dyland Ratigan's show along with Weiner. The bitch has nothing to say except scare the seniors, scare the seniors. She needs to spend some of the money she makes and get her buck teeth overbite fixed.
newswoman
Here you go again. Stop picking on her hair, nose job, teeth, etc. That is sexism and a stupid way to argue. It's her ideas and policies that you all should be talking about. I'm a Dem and I didn't like it when Hillary was picked on for her physical 'failings', and I don't like it when Rep women are treated the same.
You probably think sexism is only in the Muslim world, but it is alive and well here in America. Knock it off.
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n--Y--morecowbellvictormisrock
She would have you believe that this is the future of of government-run health care:
http://www.satireandcomment.com/1009deathczar.html
idicula1979
Since single payer is so good for congressmen and women and senators why are repunlicans (and some spineless democrats) against it for ordinary citizens?
AlanD2
idicula1979: Many members of Congress are in thrall to their paymasters - corporate lobbyists. Any more questions?
idicula1979
I was just being sarcastic, but thank you AlanD2 (with a hint of sarcasm)
AlanD2
Glad to help out, idicula1979. :-)
Thank you.
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