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The Collateral Damage to Muslims
Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences
The suspected Fort Hood shooter left more than a trail of carnage in his wake. He has sown fear in the hearts of millions of Muslim Americans—and inflamed hatred of Islam.
We don't have any solid answers as to why Major Nidal Malik Hasan murdered 13 people and wounded 30 more at Fort Hood, and perhaps we never will. Some suggest that Hasan was deeply disturbed by the prospect of serving in Iraq, where he was to use his psychiatric training to help American soldiers survive the rigors of war. Apparently Hasan tried desperately to get out of the military, going so far as to hire a lawyer. But of course Hasan could have found various other ways to avoid deploying to Iraq—by conniving his way into a dishonorable discharge, by going AWOL, or even by committing suicide. Then there are rumors that Hasan had faced harassment and discrimination as a Muslim and Arab American in the military. Given that millions of Americans have faced discrimination of varying degrees of severity, this explanation doesn't quite add up. One is reminded of another mass murderer, Colin Ferguson, who gunned down six passengers on an LIRR commuter train in December of 1993. Early on, his defense attorneys claimed that Ferguson was the victim of "black rage" that drove him insane, and that he couldn't be held responsible for the crime he had allegedly planned over the course of a week. The general consensus was that this theory was as offensive as it was preposterous.
Hasan's other victims are the millions of Muslim Americans who've fully embraced American life, and who feel a profound sense of dread whenever innocent people are murdered in the name of Islam.
Another emerging narrative is that the U.S.-born Hasan, a devout Muslim, was an anti-American extremist who intended to strike a blow against the military. If that really was Hasan's intention, he's already failed. The enormity of this tragedy for the loved ones of the deceased can't be overstated. But no sane person believes that the United States will move an inch because of the monstrous crime of an awkward and apparently friendless man. What Hasan has done, regardless of his motivation, is sow fear and anxiety among millions of Muslim Americans, who have served in the years since the 9/11 terror attacks as America's secret weapon against Islamic radicalism. The prosperity and religious freedom enjoyed by Muslims in America contrasts rather well against the grinding poverty and violent oppression faced by those living under Islamist rule.
• Mimi Swartz: Fort Hood’s Bleak World
• Gail Sheehy on Fort Hood’s too-late plan to prevent post-combat stress from getting out of hand It is also true that Muslims remain a fairly small minority in the United States, with estimates ranging up to 7 million adherents at the high end. This number has increased dramatically since the immigration reforms of the mid-1960s, which led to a sharp increase in the number of Asian and Middle Eastern Muslims entering the country. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 45 percent of Americans know a Muslim. Of those who have a high level of familiarity with Islam, 57 percent view Muslims favorably while 25 percent view them unfavorably. For those with a low level of familiarity, 21 percent have a favorable view, 35 percent have an unfavorable view, and 44 percent, a significant plurality, have no opinion. The Pew survey also found that 58 percent of Americans believe that Muslims face a high level of discrimination, while 64 percent believe the same is true for gays and lesbians. These numbers suggest that a large majority of Americans are open-minded about Muslims. And though there are pockets of distrust, far more Americans worry that Muslims face discrimination than hold negative views of Muslims.
The danger is that Hasan's despicable crime will subtly and slowly change these perceptions for the worse. Overnight, Twitter feeds and message boards pulsed with anti-Muslim anger. This kind of venting is important to a free society. But it could also be an ominous sign of tensions to come. It is thus no surprise that groups like the controversial Council on American-Islamic Relations have been so quick to condemn the violence. The vast majority of Americans recognize that Hasan doesn't represent all Muslims, just as the Virginia Tech killer Seung-Hui Cho didn't represent all Korean-Americans. Yet people who are on the fence about whether Muslims can be trusted could tip over into believing that they can't. Back in 2004, a survey sponsored by Cornell University found that 29 percent of Americans believed that "all Muslim Americans should be required to register there whereabouts with the federal government," a policy that would be a massive propaganda coup for America's rivals. And it should go without saying that opinions about Muslims aren't evenly distributed across the country. Muslims living in regions and neighborhoods where high levels of mistrust prevail are likely to feel alienated from the American mainstream, which could then lead them to live narrow, impoverished lives—or, worse still, turn to the kind of nihilistic violence we've occasionally seen from the Muslim youth of France and Holland and Britain, where riots and gang violence with a militant edge have grown too common.
Hasan's most important victims are the families who've lost loved ones and the soldiers who've lost comrades. They deserve our deepest sympathies. Yet Hasan's other victims are the millions of Muslim Americans who've fully embraced American life, and who feel a profound sense of dread whenever innocent people are murdered in the name of Islam.
Reihan Salam is a fellow at the New America Foundation and the co-author of Grand New Party.
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When President Lincoln was assassinated, all Americans were appalled, but perhaps the most appalled was Junius Brutus Booth, Jr., the brother of John Wilkes Booth. He, like his brother and father before him, was an actor and had even appeared on stage with his brother.
Among his minor concerns at that horrifying moment was the thought that his career on the stage was over. Happily, he was wrong on that point. Americans did not blame him for his brother's actions and he continued his successful career. As an American, I am very proud of this.
I am also sure that the overwhelming majority of Americans will understand that Major Hasan was just a very sick man and not a representative of Muslims.
I doubt it. We don't blame all Lutherans, for instance, if a murderer was of that faith, for being unAmerican or terrorists. Why do people suddenly blame all Muslims for Hasan's behavior. I know it has a lot to do with our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but don't get xenophobic and hate all American Muslims for one man's craziness.
Because Lutherans dont go around shouting " God is great!" before they shoot someone in the head. Lutherans dont go around with dynamite strapped to themselves to a bazaar and blow themselves up in the name of God. Lutherans dont hijack passenger jets and fly them into buildings into in the name of God. Thats the difference. And muslim leaders or not standing up as a whole and denouncing these acts that are commited in the name of Islam.
A couple things...
Terrible analogy. It is absurd. Like "motrbotr" stated, Lutherans don't go around shouting "God is great" before they open fire. We understand that violence is a major trend, if you will, in the Muslim religion which isn't seen in other religions. So generally speaking, yes, if somebody commits murder, they aren't Muslim, and there is no reason to believe religion was involved in any way we would just call them a murderer. But if a Muslim commits murder, knowing what we know about their culture and religion you atleast have to consider the possibility that religion could be a factor, especially if they shout "God is great" right before killing people.
It's people like you who constantly water down the truth for the sake of being
PC who try to prevent this country from truly coming to an understanding of these issues in order to not only protect ourselves but Muslims themselves.
I don't think a single person is suggesting that we blame or hate all American Muslims for one man's craziness. I didn't even think of this as religious violence until I heard he said "God is great" before he began shooting people. Try to explain that away. What is in question is whether or not we blame Islam. NOT Muslims.
To selah:
Do you even understand that the incantation is a common prayer, not necessarily the cry of fanatics? It is used in so many different contexts by Muslims that it sort of loses its meaning. Do you really believe that the person who told you God Bless after you sneezed really meant to bless you?
Does the fact that someone pray necessarily mean that they are doing the following act for the religion? When football players pray before a game or after touchdowns, do you believe that their on-field behaviour is conditioned by their faith? In high school, when my friend kissed his St-Jude medal before giving his speech on AIDS, do you believe that he was giving the speech because of his religion or do you believe that he was asking God's help in accomplishing the task?
If a Catholic had crossed himself when he started shooting, no one would blame his religion. Yet, the acts are the same for all intents and purposes.
MotrBotr --
in Germany (Bavaria especially), one of the main greetings is "Gruss Gott" which, translated, means "Greet God." This is very common, and is even used in official communications by the state (esp in Austria). So there are many lutherans who would commonly use a similar phraseology in everyday language. It doesn't necessarily mean the same thing it might mean to an American Lutheran or a French Catholic. Sometimes it is just something people say out of habit, or when they are scared, or when they are absolutely batsh-t bonkers and in desperate need of immediate psychological treatment.
To seriousjoke:
To repeat myself:
"But if a Muslim commits murder, knowing what we know about their culture and religion you atleast have to consider the possibility that religion could be a factor, especially if they shout "God is great" right before killing people"
Read it closely. I said "you atleast have to CONSIDER that relgion COULD be a factor."
As I do not know the man who committed this atrocity and I do not know his religious background I cannot conclusively say that his actions were religious in nature. My argument is against those who try to write off the possibility immediately and with little reason. It's not just the fact that he is Muslim, but also his words that indicate that it is a possibility.
Yeah, extremist christians usually prefer the phrase "Its a child, not a choice!" before they kill some one in the name of God. Its a bit longer but rolls off the tongue nicely.
Islam is not a violent religion. Unfortunately, Wahhabism (a conservative Islam founded in Saudi Arabia) is spreading in the US. This type of Islam promotes extremism, violence, oppression of women and killing in the name of God. Most of the "terrorist" in the 9/11 attack were associated with the Wahhabi sect.
If we educate ourselves on this subject, we will find that Islam is not a threat to us. Wahhabism is the enemy and should not be tolerated.
selahh
Actually, if the original post had stated that religion had absolutely no bearing on the outcome, you would have a point. That is not the case however, that person simply questioned why religion was necessarily being pointed at even before the whole story came out.
In any case, the whole point of your posts is to blame Islam, not mention that perhaps it is a factor. Please note that you do not blame:
1. religious fanaticism (which would be more appropriate in light of the fact that there are over 1 billion followers worldwide- 7M in the USA) or
2. the fact that this man may have identified with the tens of thousands of civilians lost in the carnage caused by our unjust war, or
3. a disgruntled employee (look at what occurred in Orlando the following day), or
4. the man's just a loner looking for meaning in his life (see the Pittsburgh health club killer, the Alabama killer etc.) or, more likely
5. a combination of these factors.
So your attempt to explain it away is cute is cute but doesn't hold water. I hope one day you get to travel, learn and overcome your prejudices.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
Since Mr. Hasan is a faithful follower of Islam, perhaps he will find comfort in the type of capital punishment he would face in an Islamic country for his crime of murder. I understand beheadings or public hangings are popular.
And you are just as sick.
jaydeekay, why is he sick to suggest beheading or public hanging? We got to watch Saddam Hussein's hanging on our nightly news and several beheadings of Americans have been televised. Or have you forgotten? I will never forget the beheadings of our Americans and which religion it was that did them.
Wait Bettie, nobody televised the beheadings of Americans. If you saw video of them, you sought them out. Which was your choice. And as for religions murdering people, don't pretend that the Judeo-Christian fanatics aren't just as guilty of it as any other. The problem here isn't with Islam, the problem is with crazy a**holes who are running around Killing people in the name of God being supported by other crazy a**holes who tell them its ok. Although I happen to agree with you and seakiev that its time to warm up the electric chair for this scumbag.
I dont think Americans can have much understanding for a religion so intollerant that its followers continue to take lives on our soil in its name. Americans are born and raised with an ingrained appreciation and expectation of freedom of worship and respect for every persons right as a citizen of the USA to worship as one chooses. Islam is in conflict with this concept on many levels. I think the intollerance of American forms of freedom and so labelled infidels, is driving everything, from running over rebellious teens, strapping on bombs, random acts of extreme violence like this incident. I am not so sure the religion of peace can coexist with respect for other religions and not continue to have zealots willingly kill as a means of preserving and promoting Islam.
When the majority of Muslims decide to assimilate into American society instead of turning their communities into 3rd world toilets....perhaps people will accept them a little more?
Look at what's happened to countries like France and Denmark....turn your back on them long enough, then they pull crap like this, or riot. Hell, people can't even create literature that can be mistaken for being critical without a lunatic infested riot. They're doing it to themselves!
just testing since it appears that The Daily Beast doesn't accept replies unconditonally.
I think most Americans would easily distinguish between a homicidal nutcase and his particular faith.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
So true.
However, for hateful idiots this tragedy is going to be considered evidence that Islam is evil and we are infiltrated with terrorists.
I hope Mr. Hasan survives and can give us some answers as to why he did this. If we can know more, understand more, and prevent future attacks, then 13 people will not have died in vain.
For me the bigger issue is why a psychiatrist, who is trained to defuse these situations, suddenly snaps.
Because extreme Islam knows no bounds of education. Many of the highest ranking al Qaeda figures are/were highly educated. Hell, KSM went to college in North Carolina I think?
I think that article is missing a key element to the problem. Many groups in America are disliked by other groups, BUT they don't fear them. So while they might not like their culture, or their religious beliefs they don't worry at night that the group will strap a bomb on their bodies and blow innocent people up. It is true there might be one on one violence, but not what we see daily in the ME.
This rage is driven by their religion which makes it that much more dangerous. It is like those that oppose gay people often do so because their religion tells them it is wrong. So this isn't a cultural difference, but a belief system that they take every breath for.
There is no doubt that most Muslims would never take on this sort of violence. However stats say that many support this violence even though they might not do the violence. If Christians were strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up other Christians the overwhelming majority of Christians would be horrified and want to do something to stop it. We don't see that in the Muslim world. Therefore everybody gets painted with the same brush.
well said.
While the killer may have some religious motivations, this does not justify the use of anecdotal evidence to make inaccurate generalizations.
Accepting the "reasoning" some have put forward (i.e. that particular religion is the problem) is tantamount to accepting that Christians have trouble with inappropriate sexual relationships (Swaggart, Baker, Haggard), Catholic priests are pedophiles, Republicans are closeted homosexuals (Craig Haggard, Allen , Murphy Jr. and Foley) Jews are greedy and will stoop down to any level to become rich (Maddoff) white people in positions of authority have trouble not abusing such position (Abu Graib, beating of Rodney King and countless others), and black men have trouble with violence towards women (OJ, Tyson, Chris Brown, Bobby Brown). None of these examples prove anything.
A pervasive argument might be made if a study proved that Muslim men were indeed more violent than men of similar backgrounds who were followers of other faiths. Otherwise, posters are using randoms examples to support and propagate their own prejudices.
This is proven with incredible eloquence by the choice some have made to focus on this man's religion while conveniently overlooking other aspects of his story.
Funny, I never heard the topic of religion when people spoke of Virginia Tech, Alabama Wal Mart, Columbine, Bundy, Dahmer, Berkowitz, Bianchi, Gacy, Lee, Ramirez, Chikatilo, etc etc etc
Seven million Muslims in the US. If religion were the primary factor, how many more of these incidents would there have been, especially in the past decade or so when several tens of thousands of fellow Muslims have lost their lives as a result of America's wars.
There have been numerous shootings in schools, workplaces and otherwise in the past twenty years. Religion is an issue only when the shooter is Muslim. This is wrong.
Okay, so many things wrong with this post, where do I begin?
First off, your list of examples of other generalizations does not support your argument. The characterisitics you attributed to various religions or races are not exclusive to the religion or race by any means. All you did was cite famous examples of these occurences and attributed them to said persons race or religion.
The reason that this doesn't support your argument is because these are just famous examples that you are proposing to make generalizations based apon, while we really don't see widespread trends supporting those generalizations. But, in the case of Islam we DO see a trend of violence that we do not see in other religions. Whether you like it or not, whether it's PC enough for you or not, saying otherwise would be denying the obvious.
Of course we don't mention religion in other cases of shootings. The fact is religion was likely not involved and we had no reason to believe so. But when the shooter is Muslim and he shouts "God is great" before shooting, you better believe we are going to use religion as a means to better understand the situation. That is not wrong.
You can't seem to follow the evidence where it leads.
To selahh:
Really, you never heard these generalisations made about Jews, Catholic priests and black men? You are a lucky person not to have seen such garbage and faulty logic. Sadly, I have heard more than my fair share of "Jews got what they deserved because they are greedy" comments and jokes. I'm not even talking about priests. The Daily Show regularly hints that Republicans are closet gays.
So, for the record, yeah, all the generalisations that I have listed have been put forward by the media, at least to some extent, with the possible exception of the one for white people (I got carried away).
So, I am sorry, but as refuting this list is apparently the basis of the first part of your argument, you are not very convincing, especially as the other portion of your argument (there is a trend of violence in Islam) is based on the generalisation that I was decrying. Stated otherwise, you have proven my point.
Seriously, as there are 7 million Muslims in the USA and more than one billion worldwide, if the religion were responsible for this (more than it would be for a killer of any other religion), the number of catastrophic events would be astronomical!
The point you are overlooking is the extreme intolerance and fear mongering of Islamic teachings that transforms its devoted followers as they relate their willingness to die for violations of Islam principles (sending them to heaven) as a solution for problems they cannot resolve. The self sacrificing of ones life as a means to all religious ends seems to be programmed into the teachings of this religion , as is evidenced by the seemingly endless supply of surprise suicide bombers and attackers bent on sending terror to the infidels .
you are stupid and prejudice.
As you probably yourself would say the U.S. is a largely a Christian nation. Many U.S. politicians portray it that way for sure.
We have a long history invading Muslim based countries, supporting those who do or deposing their rulers (Palestine, 1960s; Iran, 1930s; Afghanistan today; Iraq 1990s-today). Millions of innocent people have died based on our military actions in those countries.
Not surprising American Christians also 'get painted with the same brush' as being horribly aggressive against Muslims.
Laughable.
We are not a Christian nation. We were founded with the principle of separation of church and state, and we have grown more and more secular over the years. Any politician who portrays our country as a Christian nation or simply themselves as Christians are just doing their job. Trying to get the votes of the Christian right.
Nothing about our military actions in the Middle East has been religious in nature. We haven't gone seeking converts. Any bombs that have been dropped have not been prefaced with "Will you convert to Christianity? No? Okay".
I'm sooo sick of our military action in the Middle East being equated with a religious crusade. Absolute absurdity.
selahh
Was the shooter killings prefaced with a demand for conversion? By your logic, his attack therefore could not have been religious.
BTW, the poster never mentionned that our military actions were religious in nature. Nice job inserting that red herring to discredit the post's logic by carefully avoiding her actual point. .
well said.
Very true. Whenever I think of Muslims, I think of them beheading people. I don't know of another religious group that beheads people on television.
Let's not forget our good-old home-grown FLDS aka Mormons, whose extremists like to rape and murder children and commit incest regularly. The non-extremists oppress women legally. One more proof of how hateful religions are.
Shirtster, I have to agree that Mormons are creeps, but I am not scared of them. I am very, very scared of Muslims. The Mormons aren't killing their little girl wives, but talk about oppressing women! How would you like to be the wife of a Muslim? I can't think of anything worse as a woman.
once again, the politically correct thing to do is isolate this one particular muslim. but lets face it, the koran says if the infidels don't convert, they need to be killed. i didn't write it, muhammad did. islam is a violent religion that allows deceit, and revenge to flourish if it furthers the cause of islam. we need to take a good hard look at our policies concerning this issue.
Good Writing: There is so much behind the door that the average person will not be privy to. The best Americans can hope for at this point is to be forever vigilant and try to protect your loved ones and yourself. I'm a three time combat veteran and am aware of what combat brings. But we've never had to fight against a common enemy on American Soil. Since 911 this has scared the hell outta me.
I agree. Trying to be a good pc mom I was reading to my kids from a book of tales from all around the world. That particular tale was a muslin story and as it progressed it got more and more violent. It got so bad that I had to stop reading and moved on to a different page. This was not the cartoon like violence that we are used to. I was shocked that the muslin culture allows for something like that to be taught to their young. Their shows for children where they talk about jews in the most derogatory ways and glorify killing Israelis are a clear example of their ways. I do believe that there are plenty of muslim mothers and fathers who want peace and happiness for their children but I think that violence against the western culture is more acceptable. We as a nation need to wake up and stop cuddling the ones that can cause us harm. This guy was being watched by the FBI, and what? How many more men like that are being "watched"? If you travel to Israel the Israeli soldier who will question you at the airport will make you feel like a low life criminal, but you know what? I feel safe on that plane. When are we going to wake up from this silly politically correct dream and protect ourselves? I am not suggesting going after every muslim living in this country but I believe that there are plenty of people we are just afraid to touch. This time it happened on a military base, what will it take. Does someone need to harm a yellow bus full of children? I would beg the muslim community to speak against this horrific crime. Thus far they have been silent, even after 9/11.
Being a good American Mom is easy, just go to wal mart buying stupid toys being materialistic to your child, they will learn and grow up to be just like you, ignorant and superficial. Don't tell me that you have to stop reading the violence children books, when in your country has black and white problem what are you going to tell your kid?Life is not easy and if your childrens are not well prepared they won't survive, don't think America will be strong in 50 years, by then China or Russia will have more power, so what are you going to do? wishing to finish that book?
When you write "We as a nation need to wake up and stop cuddling the ones that can cause us harm" do you mean the 7M Muslims? That is one heck of a job, don't you think?
Perhaps we should just kick them all out. Yes, 7M people should be deported because of one man's actions. Sounds about right.
When you write "Their shows for children where they talk about jews in the most derogatory ways and glorify killing Israelis are a clear example of their ways" have you conisdered how many times Arabs and Muslims have been the bad guys on TV shows and in American movies and "justifiably" killed?. Is this not the same racism?
BTW, as far as I understand, you are referring to Palestinians with that statement. Have you considered that 62% of Muslims live in Asia and that only 20% of Muslims are Arab? Have you considered that 1.57 Billion people (23% of the world's population) are Muslim? .
Finally, your statement that Muslim leaders have not decried this horrendous act of a madman is false:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/muslim-arab-groups-condem_n_347 777.html
But please, do not let the facts get in the way of your prejudices....
You sound like a wonderful mother. I happen to agree with what you wrote. You speak the truth.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
loloo33:
Please go back to school. Your posts are difficult to read.
Why are you criticizing this woman who you don't even know? Ignorant and superficial? Nothing in her post demonstrated that. A parent isn't going to let a young child watch and excessively violent movie, why should they read for them excessively violent books?
Besides that, I'm not even sure what the rest of your ramblings were referring to. Impressive.
Oh and seriousjoke:
Maybe you should brush up on your logical fallacies. I don't think anyone was suggesting that all 7 million Musims in America would cause us harm or that they should be deported. But you did a great job of ignoring the point and tearing down an argument that didn't even exist! Kudos!
To selahh
Actually, I'll do that when you brush up on your elementary grammar. Notice the question mark in the comment?
It reflects that I was genuinely unsure about what she meant and responded to one possible interpretation.
Oh and, BTW, several people, in these comments and elsewhere have suggested just that, the deportation of all Muslims from the USA. Good job on ignoring that!
Please go on trying to discredit posts by attacking one small element.
Muslin?
to loloo33
I am not a walmart shopper but the beauty of this great land of ours is that I support others' right to shop wherever they care to. As far as my kids are concerned, I do protect them while trying to show them that life sometimes is not fair and that we have to play by the rules even if we don't like them. I certainly would not murder my child for wearing jeans or dating a person out of my race or religion. Again, I am not saying that all muslims do that but it is a fairly accepted practice in their communities. So I guess I am an overprotective mother.
to seriousjoke:
I do not support doing anything to the entire Muslim population in the US (whether it be 7 million as you claim, or 5 or 3, as I've seen from more authoritative sources), and while isolated voices of condemnation of such violence from the American Islamic community is admirable, it is often isolated, spoken with heavy caveats of explanation as to MY responsibility for causing the Muslim attack upon Western civilization, and is often contradictory to the messages that the same Muslim leaders teach their own people. CAIR's actions and statements supporting extreme Saudi behavior, for example, serve as a prime example of what I speak of. Further,
I WISH that this infection of hatred against non-Muslims solely emanated from Arab Muslims. True, Wahabiists from Saudi Arabia and Shiites from Iran are the source of much of the venom, but their disease permeates such non-Arab Muslim countries as far removed as Pakistan and Indonesia. By the way, last month a very close friend was on a plant tour in Indonesia. The plant director, an urbane, well spoken, polite gentleman, with a prestigious university diploma on the wall of his office and the Asian Wall Street Journal on his desk, asked my friend if it was true that the Israelis warned all the Jews to leave the World Trade Center before the attack on 9/11. My friend replied that he doubted so, since three of his Jewish friends were killed there that day. The plant manager thanked him for clearing that up for him, because he had heard much the contrary among his friends, even though everyone of his class has access to global media and the internet (or perhaps, because of they had such access).
Radical Islam is an infectious disease that finds its roots in a religion that even where outwardly moderate, seems structurally vulnerable to insanity that we thought was long dead among modern religions (and therefore, one must conclude, that Islam is apparently still a medieval one in need of its own internally-generated reformation). In the mean time, we must be on guard.
The muslim community may not speak out because it is being polluted with Wahhabism which is a conservative branch of Islam that promotes radicalism, violence and oppression of women. Immigrants coming to the US are bringing this sect of Islam with them. Most of those involved in 9/11 were Wahhabi's.
I don't think we should fear muslims, but do question those who follow Wahhbism.
It is true that Islam is a religion that promotes violence against 'Others', but I think as Muslims live in western countries they take on the general lifestyles of these places and slowly lose that Muslim fanaticism. Remember, their children grow up here and don't have the daily influences they would have in Islamic countries, and, in fact, have no memories of these countries as they never lived there. As they see Americans take there religion as a private affair and not the only influence in their lives, they will change, too.
Except for the intense pressure put on children of devout Muslims to not become Westernized. A girl was killed by her father not too long ago in Arizona for dishonoring her family, but go ahead and ignore it. I'm sure your content with your opinion that it will just work itself out.
Anyone who uses the name of God to justify murder is disturbed.
That said, Christian Bible on non-believers, which has got to scare a lot of Muslims:
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn't receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
veronicaca, you know just enough about the bible to be dangerously ignorant. none of what you say above is accurate. there are specific instances in the old testament where god told the israelis to conquer the land and drive out its inhabitants, but god doesn't tell us to kill anyone who doesn't believe. that is only found in the koran where it specifically spells out who to kill (those who don't believe). please read the new testament and see jesus's teachings and you will realize that he doesn't want us killing anyone.
Well done! Although most to the true believers on this board will ignore or reject your data.
Most people don't know that the ideological foundation for Islam is Judaism and Christianity. There is little in the Koran that is not also in the Bible. Most Christians refuse to acknowledge this fact because most Christians are as ignorant about Christianity as they about Islam.
The treatment of women as inferior to men is another common element among the cults that worship the God of Abraham. There are still sects of Jews and Christians who believe that women are inferior to men and should be completely subservient to men.
Over the millennia, Jews and Christians have probably perpetuated and condoned more violence against non-believers then Muslims have. The former two have just had more time to kill.
Well said innocentcitizen.
When was the last time you saw this carried out? Even the most extremely hateful sects of Christianity (Westboro Baptists) aren't going around killing anyone.
But way to take things out of context and apply them to situations that they simply don't apply to.
Exactly true. Most religions contain decrees of violence towards non-believers; after all, at the time they were created this was necessary to ensure the survival of their followers and propagation of their beliefs.
Whether a religion can still be characterised that way depends not on it's beliefs or content, but on the progress its people have made since the time of its creation. Ergo, there still remains a violent interpretation of Islam in underdeveloped countries, the same as there remains a violent interpretation of Christianity in parts of Africa (Lord's Resistance Army is a perfect example of this - it advocates cannibalism, rape and genocide under a Christian banner) or Lebanon.
Christians like to take credit for the morality of western progressive society, but any religion practiced under it (including Islam) will tend to be peaceful.
Way to quote the old testament, whose rules don't apply anymore. Do you see and modern christian refusing to wear clothes woven of two materials? Or sacrificing burnt offerings? Or marrying their brothers widow? Thats cherrypicking and you know it.
Yes, there are some violent things in the Koran, and in the name of Islam Mohammed and his followers conquered large swaths of Asia, Africa, and Europe.
But as an all-around non-believer, I would just like to point out that I read the Bible as pretty damn violent as well.
'If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not listen to the voice of his father or his mother..... All the men of the town must then stone him to death. You must banish this evil from among you.' Deuteronomy 21:21
Indeed, there was a terror of death throughout the city. God was dealing with them severely, and those who did not die were afflicted with tumors.1 Samuel 5:11-12
'I will strike her children dead so that all the churches will know that I repay each of you as your deeds deserve.' Revelation 2:23
Of course, our "Christian Nation" tends to forget tidbits like these, doesn't it. How about the fact that the KKK, skinheads, and various other violent groups use the Bible and God as their source of legitimacy? And yet I don't walk around fearing the nearest white Christian is going to snap and kill me.
There is no excuse for ignorance and hate of the unknown.
Actually that's not strictly correct. Non-muslims are allowed to practice their faith within the muslim community provided that they pay the jizya which is a tax levied to serve as a de facto admission of subservience by the infidels. If they refuse to pay the tax then it can be implied that they can be summarily disposed of. The main reference to this is qur'an 9:29.
It's all bullcrap of course. Any adherent to one of the Abrahamic religions trying to point fingers a different sect because of the teachings of their supposedly holy book needs to go back and read their own. Genocide and suppression of nonbelievers has been a part of these religions since their origin.
Having said that, don't get me wrong here. This Hasan bastard needs to be executed, preferably in some creative way that involves any victim or family member who feels like participating. Those people deserve the catharsis of revenge if they feel that they need it.
One report yesterday suggested he was being denigrated for being Muslim. That and the war against the people of his heritage may have contributed to mental illness. As a treater of PTSD, it could not have been easy for Hasan to listen to accounts of atrocity reported by his patients, returning soldiers.
(By the way, Mr. Salam - it's SOWN and not SEWN. In your opening paragraph you write "He has sewn fear in the hearts of millions of Muslim Americans")
How dare you make a victim out of the killer? "It could not have been easy for Hasan to listen ....blah, blah, blah". He was not a victim, he was a leach that sucked at the American taxpayer teat since he got out of high school. When the government actually asked him to do a days work in return for 20 years of welfare/education, he went on a killing spree. If it hurt his poor little brain so much to listen to soldiers, why didn't he go into another branch of medicine? Or go AWOL, or kill himself,, there were so many other options. I believe a lot of his goofy problems could have been solved had he had a wife and family. He was probably a 40 yr old virgin.
I don't think he/she was condoning, merely offering a possible explanation. I think you need to emotionally detach from the issue. If you can't discuss the guy in any way other then OMG HE MUST DIEEE NOW, then there really isn't much to talk about. It just becomes ego stroking and venting about how outraged you are and how much you hate him.
This is a nitpick, but as a quasi-literary publication, the DB should get its clichs right. It's SOWN fear, as in the to reap what one sows, now sewn, as in stitched.
That's CLICHES and not clichs...
And "stitched fear" could still makes sense. Ha.. just nitpicking ;p
You fail to acknowledge the collateral damage done by this attack to non-Muslim Americans. the 45,000 soldiers and their families who used to feel safe on their secure base. All of the rest of us who never know when a normal-seeming Muslim, American-born or not, will drift into extremism. You feel that unquestioning trust for all Muslims in America is morally and ethically correct and that anything less is discrimination. Can you put yourself in our shoes, and acknowledge that there is a risk involved with blind trust? Yes, people tend to be uneasy if a group of young men with Middle Eastern heritage board an aircraft with them. Its' not discrimination, its self-preservation.
You know, there is so much violence in American life these days. People get killed all the time in American citiies due to gang violence or just somebody goes nuts. Don't make this more than it is.
Just like the guy in Florida that went on a shooting spree.
Most Americans are not dumb enough to commit the fallacy of inclusion, but some are. Look at how many people still believe that Barack Obama is a left-wing terrorist due to his associations with William Ayers, and look at how many think he is a radical black-nationalist because he has listened to Rev. Wright's sermons.
It doesn't really get intimidating until you consider that among the large contingent who believe in guilt by association or guilt by inclusion, a certain percentage lack the self control necessary not to act on their manufactured and illogical fears. Thus we see tea-baggers carrying rifles to their protests.
My heart goes out to Muslim-Americans today. These are difficult times, and often you will be face-to-face with some of the worst elements of our society. Please know that many of us are happy and proud stand with you.
Nobody worries over (or publishes an essay about) the public's perception of alleged Christians when they kill abortion doctors, do they?
Extremes of all religions are a menace to humanity-each one claims superiority over another, rules to live by blah, blah, blah.
Christianity IS as bloody and violent as any other- Jesus AND Mohammed would probably be disgusted with their so-called followers who choose to pervert religious beliefs..
NOT TRUE!! If this were done by a Christian for religious beliefs it would have been MUCH condemned just as the abortion killing was condemned. I, too, have been saying for years-"Where is the Islamic condemnation of acts like this from their leaders?
Religion in general is primitive and barbarous. It's the kind of thing that, when used as intended, spawns and perpetuates hatred, murder, war. It is used to rationalize brutality, venality, slavery, genocide, greed. Look at what the apologists have written in their comments:
PaulJG
"I think most Americans would easily distinguish between a homicidal nutcase and his particular faith." Here is a critical problem. What IS the difference between a nutcase and a "believer" in ANY irrational, superstition?
Chuckv
"I am also sure that the overwhelming majority of Americans will understand that Major Hasan was just a very sick man and not a representative of Muslims." Sad but true. In fact we should see this man as representative of ALL religious believers - regardless of name or sect - who feel entitled and compelled to inflict their religious delusions and psychoses on the rest of the world.
verycold
"If Christians were strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up other Christians the overwhelming majority of Christians would be horrified and want to do something to stop it." Really? That hasn't been the in the past. Here we see the tribalism of religion at work. verycold comes out for his team saying, "Oh, we would never do that." when in fact Christians have a long, damning, worldwide history of perpetrating terrors and crimes (crusades, slavery, witch burning, child abuse, . . . ).
Imagine no religion. Then work to make it so. A fundamental human right is the freedom from religion and all other institutionalized superstitious belief.
you don't have to imagine a country w/no religion. stalin and lenin and mao were committed atheists who outlawed religion. oh by the way, they only killed several million of their citizens.
In fact, Christains do not have a long, damning, worldwide history of terror. It pretty much stopped during the crusades that was 600-800 years ago. Although, the 30 years war was predominately a Christain war that ended in the mid 1600's. After that, there was sporadic Christain violence mostly in Ireland, which has pretty much ceased in the last 20 years. Not to say that Christianity may not breed hate, but the hate doesn't seem to lead to violence.
Muslim violence has been rampant for the last 2000 years. I don't believe that in the last 200 years any other faith can claim death and violence in every part of the globe. The main difference as I see it, is that most religious faiths have grown-up and matured. The Muslim faith for some is still steeped in horrible rituals and beliefs from 2000 years past.
Since the late 1960's outside of Iraq and Afganistan, there have been nearly 250 muslim backed attacks world-wide, including night clubs, schools, churches and Mosques .
How many other Religions can claim the same.
Wow, I'm not sure you have much a sense of history.
Christian violence ending 600-800 years ago? Did you forget to expect the Spanish Inquisition, enacted in 1478 (which is was a mere 531 years ago)? It wasn't abolished until 1834. What about killing off Native Americans in the name for Christianity? How about in present day Africa, where some Christian leaders gain power over groups by accusing children of being witches? Let us not also forget that the Catholic Church originally supported Mussolini (who may not have had as extreme views as Hitler, but who still came to power from thuggery and intimidation).
How can the Muslims have been causing violence for the last 2000 years when their calender only dates from 622 AD? They took over former Roman territory in Spain and North Africa starting at the end of that same century. If you look at their religious policies in those controlled territories, Spain was actually a bastion for theological thought and debate among Jewish, Christian, and Muslim intellectuals during the last two centuries of the first millennium (and in fact, when Charlemagne moved down into the Spanish marches, some of the Christian theologians there were actually accused of heresy). Baghdad (obviously not a former Roman territory, but a center of Muslim power) was famous for its tolerance of non-Muslims. And the writings of Aristotle, which were famously preserved in Arabic, were translated by Syriac Christians living in Muslim territory in the 8th and 9th centuries. While there certainly were tensions, early Islamic rulers were remarkably tolerant compared to some of their Christian counterparts.
From what I've read, the turning point seems to have been the political and economic decline of the east, chipped away by various forces including the European powers in the West, damage from Mongols and Tartars (earlier) in the East, and the difficult-to-govern diversity of rugged places like Eastern Egypt or certain parts of North Africa or Afghanistan. And the key to dealing with this is a combination of acceptance for peaceful Islam, education, and an increased standard of living thanks to good, old-fashioned capitalism. After all, people who are poor, unhappy, uneducated, and left out of the economic advancements of others are more likely to believe firebrand preachers who say that the West is at fault, and, more importantly, it is in the interest of corrupt governments for their people to believe them because blaming the West distracts from their own internal problems.
None of this, obviously, is any kind of excuse for the tragedy that took place. But statements like, "The Muslim faith for some is still steeped in horrible rituals and beliefs from 2000 years past" speak to a widespread ignorance and lack of curiosity or interest in constructive solutions from our own side.
IHow many times do i have to flush before you go away?
Ppl always blame the entire minority population when one person does something wrong. Why else does the Amer-Muslim Council have to come out and condemn this murderer's actions? You never see that happen when white (male) people, Christian Americans (WASPs) commit a crime. I have already overheard my coworkers saying that Muslims should not be allowed to serve in the military. It is sickening. An entire culture, an entire religion has just been set back by one man's actions. Get ready for FIXED NEWS to stoke the fires of hatred. Sadly, that hatred will track with many close minded Americans. This is such a horrible tragedy. Those poor soldiers and their families...and now this.
I think that it has become painfully clear that Muslims in a military who is at war with Muslim countries is a VERY bad idea!
I am with verycold. No matter where you look in the world, systemic violence that is not tribally motivated is usually religiously motivated. Whether it is a demented "Christian" shooting an abortion doctor or a demented "Muslim", religion seems to promote the hatred and confidence in the conviction that someone has to die to make the world a better place.
The biggest systematic killers and haters of all time were un-religious and often anti-religious. Stalin, Mao, Hitler. etc. etc. etc. Manipulating facts and history to cultivate your hate is doing exactly what the killers do.
Hitler was anti religion??? Thats a new one on me. I thought he was for an all white christian race. And did you know that Stalin believed in God? He just didnt believe organized religion, or any groups, be they trade unions or doctor boards. All groups were considered a threat to Stalin, even his own family. Mao believed in Buddha. Being anti religion had nothing to do with Mao or Stalin and Hitler went as far as saying God had commanded him to destory the Jews. Muslims, and to a lesser extent, agnotics and anyone not professing a belief in God or a christian god takes a beating in this country. I also get tired of chritians saying "only muslims strap bombs on" I guess many christians have forgotten the great war between the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland...both sides christians. If you state " fear the muslims terror cells" then you already were waiting for a reason to espouse your mistrust and dare I say it, deep seated hatred to not only muslims, but to all you consider "the anti christ". I still have a greater fear of white, uneducated drunken teabaggers with guns and God driving them than I have of any muslims.
That's right, history started with the Bolshevik revolution.
I'm sure that the descendants of the indigenous American peoples would beg to differ with you.
liberaljesus, your argument is so fallacious its hard to know where to start.
stalin was an atheist,and so was mao, it is one of the basic tenets of communism. hitler was not for an all white christian race, he was for an all white aryan race with an emphasis on germanic mythology. he was not a christian. northern ireland? come on that was just street gangs fighting over turf. i haven't seen one white drunken uneducated teabagger anywhere. this is a lie you and your lefty friends tell yourselves. get over your malicious ignorance and look at reality. your fear of white uneducated drunken teabaggers is irrational. please go to the nearest muslim country and live
liberaljesus, you may want to consult your history books a little more before spouting off . On stalin, you are partially correct, he originally was studying to be an Orthodox priest, but was thrown out of the seminary. By the time he teamed up with V.I. Lenin he had pronounced all religion and belief in God as nothing more than myth.
Hitler was pretty much areligious. he never let on what his religious inclinations were except for his position on Jews. He pretty much had no use for any of them and never professed any belief in God or that God commanded him to do any of what he did.
Mao was a low level civil servant until he joined the communists. He was not much into anything except maybe some form of Taoism /Confucianism given the region of China that he was from. His religion was that of the gun. The gun could preserve life or it could take life, that was all that really mattered to him. That and raping women- he particularly liked that.
To clarify: what was dangerous about these dictators wasn't that Stalin, Mao, and Hitler were un- or anti-religious -- it's that they were trying to replace religion with a state ideology that was incontestable. The one thing I will say for Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and other well-established religions with long histories of discussion is that, at their best, they do actually provide a forum for dialogue and moral discussion. For example, one might criticize the extravagance of the Catholic Church by citing the poverty of Christ and his disciples. (St. Francis certainly did.) Another example: liberal Muslims use the Koran to criticize inhumane practices by fellow Muslims, pointing out that many human rights abuses are from pre-Muslim tribal law, not from Islam itself. By contrast, state-driven secular religions have no texts and have no higher power to which one can appeal. They also establish their own, incontestable relative morality. Thus, what they have in common with extreme theocratic states is that they stifle criticism, prevent ideological reevaluation, and ultimately dictate a moral code that is meant to keep one group in power and the rest in check. The only difference is that theocracies invoke an inflexible deity, and atheistic regimes invoke themselves.
I echo some of Verycold's comments. Muslims need to condem such acts. No one hated Muslims before 911. Right or wrong many do today. To the recent arrivals I would ask: why did you come here? I would not move to a country where I was hated. Reihan, you suggest that there are millions of Muslins who have embraced American life. I hope you are right and for those that honestly do, I welcome them to the USA. However, until more Muslims speak out I won't be convinced that it's not one big sleeper cell.
When will muslims learn? THEY'RE the ones who decided to live under all that oil, which I need to drive three hours to see my folks, go to walmart, do the laundry, pick up my mail downstairs. THEY'RE the ones who refuse to accept the consultants, ideas, and suggestions that we offer to help them run their countries. THEY'RE the ones who have been trying to take over the world for the last three thousand years (islam was founded around 622, AD or BC? IDK). THEY'RE the ones who constantly strip third world countries for their natural resources to make a profit in the name of their insipid religion. Until WE realize that muslims are evil and a part of the 'pole of evil' we will continue to win the war in afghanistan. I just want my country back.
Well said. Using that same logic, then all earthlings, men, psychiatrists, soldiers, bald people, and the rest of the other subgroups that Hasan could be placed in should speak out. Since the Hair Club for Men has yet to issue a statement, I am also convinced they approved of his acts.
Hate and distrust begets hate and distrust.
This is precisely why rational people hate and distrust the neo conservative movement.
Many of my fellow muslims are not aware of the fact that they fail to see the good things that America, Britain and the West offer to the adherents of Islam, i.e. freedom, tolerance and equality. I am a Filipino muslim working in Saudi Arabia and my frustration on the reality of how rampant discrimation, injustice and inequality persist on what muslim's in other countries consider as a model of an Islamic Country. In a country where Islam is supposed to be the rule you will experience in your daily life that you are among the lowest of mankind. Saudi's would call your attention as if you're a dog. They would pay you 1/3 of what other nationalities receive just because you are a Filipino. They would consider you of low faith just because you are not an Arab.
Muslim's in the West should rejoice on the tolerance, freedom and equality that they enjoy. The idea of some that living in todays' Muslim country would give them the bliss that they hoped for isn't the reality as of now. My experience proved that we muslims still have a lot to learn and to embark on a lot of sacrifice until Muslim leader's would realize that tolerance, freedom and equality are among those that Islam cherished.
For those living in the West, acts like those done by the likes of Maj. Nidal should never be espoused. You have a lot of blessings compared to your brethrens living in other countries.
We have all seen way too much violence of past few years. Due to the War in Iraq and Afganistan. But that does not make it write for religion to the cause of someone's madness. This MADMAN killed soldiers, the Koran did not tell him to do it. The Bible also says it ok to kill, but that does not mean, We should go out and start doing the same. 1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.
2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.
3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.
4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.
5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.
6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.
7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.
The KKK does all their crazy things in the name of the Bible. When the abortion Dr. was murdered in Church, no one wrote about " the Christian who believed abortion was wrong killed another person" It was about a Crazy doing something stupid and the top it of. People went on air to support him. For taking a life he was suppose to be saving.
Maybe we try to give it more depth than it deserves. Maybe he felt boxed in, the hate he felt was no longer controllable, and he killed.
Or maybe it was simple bitterness, not resulting from the blatant harrassment he said he was facing, but maybe the everyday snickers and stares, he probably also faced, especially if he was wearing traditional dress, in a military town.
I live in a military town, and it can be tough. There is not much disposable money, some back in boxes or missing limbs, not to mention the horrific memories. So tension causes either callousness or hyper sensitivity in some cases.
Then there is the possibility he had a severe case of traumatic embitterment disorder, which I would guess and hope is preventable. But maybe it can't be, until the world is filled with love and happiness, instead of war and misery.
Sometimes it doesn't matter why.
Maybe people need to be armed in more situations than they are now. If the victims had been armed, maybe there would have been less victims.
Even walking by the library, there are men and women, who are homeless, and shaggy, maybe they too feel very bitter when they see happy people with their fancy computers and high tech outfits wizzing by them standing by the door, so they can use the free wifi, which only residents are entitled to use, but homeless people who don't qualify for a library card can't use, and add to that, they often refuse to give them spare change.
The act he committed, was unIslam. Just like murder is unChristian.
[Do Islam and Christianity have different origins?
No. Together with Judaism, they go back to the prophet and patriarch Abraham, and their three prophets are directly descended from his sons Muhammad from the eldest, Ishmael, and Moses and Jesus from Isaac. Abraham established the settlement which today is the city of Makkah, and built the Ka'ba towards which all Muslims turn when they pray.] excerpted from http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/uiatm/un_islam.htm.
And that's what all the fighting is about--which is the "true' religion!
My Invisible Superhero Who Lives In Outer Space Is Better Than Yours! Die, infidel!
/shakes head...
dooreen better check your history books. Islam is not that old. But, it's irrelevant anyway. In Nashville we say "God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy." In Islam they say "God is great" and then blow themselves up.
All religion sucks. It can turn otherwise sane people into fanatics... the Christians did it for hundreds of years during the Dark Ages, the Middle Ages, The Crusades, and the Inquisition. Don't forget the rape and pillaging of the entire continent of South America.
With that being said, at least the Christians have toned it done in the past few hundred years. Islam is religion and culture of barbaric lunatics and it always has been. I wish they would start blowing up their mosques here in the States like the do in Iraq. Let those animals tear each other apart... but when they start shooting our soldiers we should get more agressive about policing this evil and wicked "religion". Honor Killings, the subjugation of women, flying planes into buildings, cutting off the heads of "infidels", stonings in the street, a cultural structure of extremely wealthy shieks and princes/kings while the rest of the population lives in abject poverty in mud huts with dirt floors... how can anyone find even a sliver of Truth in this monsterous dogma? By keeping their populations illiterate, inbred, and praying to the Flying Spagehetti Monster, that's how.
This was a military base--they were already maxed out on guns and ammo.
SC Justice Robert Jackson (Wikipedia) said "The Constitution is not a suicide pact"
If I heard the Muslim religious leaders denounce these killing repeatedly then I'd believe they, their believers are not supporting these terrorist acts at least tacitly. Where was the outrage when the goof killed his child in an "honor killing", every Muslim that claims to have a leadership role in their Mosque should have howled w/ outrage, nothing!.... We have every right to suspect and conduct surveillance on Muslims s
These terrorists are not pulling their beliefs out of thin air ... they are coming from the Koran and their religious leaders ... if only 1/1000th of percentage of all Muslims (1.2Billion est) believe it their duty to kill non-believers, that is an astounding number and I believe the number is higher than that. I'll shift my opinion and concern to the general population the day I see a terrorist being some other group that is predominantly non-Muslim.
Muslims do you want to correct your killing image, start denouncing these killings wherever they take place.
Don't hold your breath ... I don't believe we will see that happen.
I hate that I agree with USA11B, but I do. I'm sick of this shit. A Muslim shoots 40 people while yelling "Allahu Akbar" and the first thing the (prominent Muslim) writer of this column does is take AMERICANS to task for their "prejudice?"
No.
You stand up. You denounce this. Repeat. Do it enough times and you will build the "brand" you somehow think you deserve.
So if I am a muslim that means I am a terrorist? In general: if a member of a group does something reprehensible, every member of that group has the onus to apologize? Then I owe africans an apology for the partitioning of africa 70 years ago. I owe an apology to the native americans, south americans so on and so forth. Oh my god, you sound just like that liberal Obama going around pologizin to the world for US past deeds. I got your Nobel prize for you
brownjackson
So if I am a muslim that means I am a terrorist? In general: if a member of a group does something reprehensible, every member of that group has the onus to apologize?
____________________________________
*** You're not required to apologize for anything if you don't want to. But if you're a Muslim who believes the radical elements in your religion don't represent you, and you choose to remain silent, don't be surprised if their behavior affects the way people perceive you, too.
It's the responsibility of Muslims, more than anyone, to quell the radical elements in their own religion -- that is, if these extremists really don't represent them.
But misperceptions about groups of individuals are rampant in the mainstream media. Good grief, I just read a story about a protest sign held by ONE person at a Tea Party rally.
Did anyone bother to find out whether the sign represented the opinions of most Tea Party protesters? Could the sign waver have been in a minority of one with his viewpoint? Might he have even been a left-wing plant adopting a Saul Alinksy strategy?
Well, that's just it -- none of that mattered to the MSM. They had the narrative they wanted, and they didn't much care about giving a fair, honest report on a political group that don't share their political views.
So, feel free to complain all you want about stereotypes and generalizations of Muslims. But unless you want to be a hypocrite, you'll be equally troubled by stereotypes and generalizations of conservatives, which you can easily find in the MSM ... not to mention on this very forum.
This should once and for all prove to the NRA that their argument about more guns in the hands of citizens will make us safer is total shit.
If one guy can inflict the damage he did in a place where EVERYBODY is armed and trained there is no hope for the rest of us.
The anti gun lobby should be all over this and this should be their greatest example to use to shut those F@#kers up who keep insisting it makes us safer to all have guns.
Also as far as the guys religious orientation goes in this matter WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?
Everytime one of these nuts goes off the media does not blab what religion they are so just because this was on a military base why bring religion in? To stir more unrest between our "PEACE LOVING CHRISTIANS" who are the ones who started this whole F@#king Iraq/Afghanistan mess to start with!!!
Bullshit, Bullshit and more Bullshit and condolences to the families of the dead...
@bluesraves: you're full of it. I guess you'd rather have all of your liberties taken away from you and be a toddler to The State, right? If Hasan didn't have a gun, he would have made a bomb vest or found some other method to commit his evil.
The rest of you muslim apologists can take a hike. Your flaccid arguments and offering your back sides to Islam won't save you in the end. I'll stand with Christians before I stand with an untrustworthy Mohammedan.
When all this is said and done, you may find that this traitor obtained his sidearms via the military...your argument will have no juice
"Also as far as the guys religious orientation goes in this matter WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?" -- bluesraves
__________________________________
Ummm ... because radical Islam is at war with America??
Or do you simply find it entirely coincidental that he held his mother's funeral at the same radical mosque frequented by two 9/11 hijackers?
Really, your question is about as naive as asking, "Gee, what on earth would any Israeli have against a Palestinian?"
This only proves that religion is a plague on humanity. I hope that at least some good can come of this atrocity and we begin to dismantle all religions, everywhere. Islam and Scientology are among the most dangerous and should be the first to go, but the other major religions like Judaism and Christianity must be abandoned if we, as a society, can ever hope to be ruled by reason, logic, and wisdom. Folks, no matter which way you slice it delusion is delusion and we have too many other issues to be concerned with to be dealing with warrantless barbarism.
Don't let anyone ever tell you they know what happens after you die, because they don't. Anyone who claims to know is 1) lying and 2) psychotic.
Be strong enough to know the universe isn't that small or simple. Use your own thoughts and convictions to give rise to spirituality unique to yourself and make your own reasons to live life as a good person. It's time we, as a nation, stop clinging fearfully to these ancient fictions and start being spiritually self-sufficient.
We have a large Muslim community in metro-Detroit. I have noticed that year after year there are more traditionally dressed Muslims with their families hanging out at our local mall. I think it is great. I hope the Muslim community does not withdraw but stays engaged. The ones that should stay home are the ones spreading hate and fear -- regardless of their religion or lack thereof.
Thank you.
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