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John Talks Joe
Alex Brandon / AP Photo
John McCain talks to The Daily Beast about why Lieberman, pivotal to Saturday's health-care vote, is undecided, explaining he "doesn't hold a grudge" and has an "unerringly accurate" record.
What does Joe Lieberman want?
“Well, I think Joe obviously marches to his own drummer,” his close friend Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican, told me Thursday evening in an exclusive interview with The Daily Beast. “And that seems to me, from my look at his record, unerringly accurate.” With that, he chuckled.
The cussedly independent senator from Connecticut—who shed his lifelong Democratic Party identification in 2006 after losing his primary to an anti-war liberal and then winning the general election, painfully, athwart the opposition of his Democratic colleagues—is once again the burr under the saddle of the body politic. Especially now that the Senate is ready to vote Saturday on whether to let the 2,000-plus page health-care bill proceed to the floor.
“He says he’s against the public option and any bill that carries it, he’ll veto it,” explains McCain. “There’s no subterfuge in what Joe is saying.”
Lieberman—who already outraged his former fellow Dems last year by evangelizing for Republican nominee McCain while trashing Barack Obama in the presidential campaign, an act of perceived treachery for which many wanted to punish him—is vowing to derail health-care reform if it includes a government-administered public option.
And he could do it—easily—with a single word.
Lieberman can just say “no” on cloture, thus denying Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada a 60-vote supermajority to stop the inevitable Republican filibuster. And the betting is that Lieberman will indeed vote with the Republicans—for a variety of motives, observers say: some political, some ideological, some personal—and in so doing he will probably give cover to other center-right Dems who might otherwise hesitate to defy their leadership and join in the bill-killing.
Both McCain and a Senate leadership aide told me that public-option skeptics such as Arkansas Democrat Blanche Lincoln, Louisiana’s Mary Landrieu,and Nebraska’s Ben Nelson might take comfort, and possibly cues, from Lieberman’s contrary behavior. “There’s a lot of respect for him on both sides of the aisle, so therefore what he does when he takes a position, there really isn’t a credibility problem,” McCain argued. “So he sometimes turns into the lead blackbird.”
Thus, all of Washington is collectively asking: What, please God, does the lead blackbird want?
“I think he has been very clear,” McCain told me. “He says he’s against the public option and any bill that carries it, he’ll veto it. There’s no subterfuge in what Joe is saying. He’s saying, ‘The public option would be bad for America and I can’t vote for it.’”
But even McCain can’t fathom the detailed changes and compromises that might satisfy his friend. Would Lieberman tolerate a trigger, activated at some point in the future based on rising private-insurance premiums and declining coverage pools, of the kind floated by Maine Republican Olympia Snowe?
“I honestly just don’t know,” McCain told me. “I just don’t know what his relations are with Reid, who has taken over this bill for himself.”
Lieberman was unavailable for comment, and a top Lieberman aide told me that all this trigger talk was “too vague and elusive” to be taken seriously.
On Saturday, Lieberman seems committed to voting with the Democrats—with whom he continues to caucus—to allow Reid’s bill to come to the floor. But if the public option isn’t ultimately stripped out, he’ll likely block efforts to end the debate.
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Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
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Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
Housebird
What Does Joe Want? ---by Lloyd Grove
Lieberman-evangelizing for Republican nominee McCain while trashing Barack Obama in the presidential campaign, an act of perceived treachery for which many wanted to punish him-is vowing to derail health-care reform if it includes a government-administered public option.
_____________________________
Orthodox Jew Joseph Lieberman "evangelizing" ????
Taking time off from his "ultra" neocon push to attack Iran and support the surge in Afghanistan Lieberman holds the balance of power on American Health ?
Is it "only in America" that such a perceived traitor as Lieberman succeed and succeed .
P.S Why does the DB not date this piece --- or others ??
.
camfield
Lieberman just loves displaying his individual power and influence and remaining in the spotlight.
And I wish people like McCain who keep using that "marching to a different drummer" reference would take the time to look up the original form of that expression.
mvstuhff
What is the "original form" that you refer to? Google does not help me here & I thought I knew what this was about.
oliverckerr
Housebird!
Get back in your cage and stop crapping on the furniture.
michaelslevinson.com
miltonf
Clearly the bill is not about healthcare reform. It is a power grab plain and simple. The bill costs trillions to cover a few million. Check the money going to Landrieu and the unions. New taxes, bureaucracy, debt, and just vague enough to fill in any blanks down the road. My hat is off to Lieberman a true statesman.
ohcaroline
I'm a tad confused about the whole healthcare bill but, if Joe doesn't like it, neither do I.
JHoward
Joe's treachery has the smell of treason about it. This is not about health care reform, but is all about driving a stake in the heart of the Obama presidency and this administration. Lieberman had Obama marked the moment he heard him say that the US needs to take a more balanced approach in mediating the Israel-Palestine conflict. Secondarily, it doesn't hurt either that major insurance companies are his primary constituents.
a00013
I am not sure his "traitor-ship" is entirely his fault since the Democrat leaders backed another candidate, despite the fact that overall Lieberman, while moderate, usually voted with fellow Democrats.
If that happened to me, I would be a bit miffed. Aside from supporting his friend by speaking at the Republican convention, he seems to hold no ill will to his fellow Democrats and continues his normal "Blue-Dog" Democrat style he has always been known for.
You know, aside from all this, I think as Americans we all agree that we need a change in Healthcare. Personally my opinion is that we need it but timing is a bit off. Focusing on the economy and real job creation first would make more Americans agreeable to spending more money.
Obama's claim that Healthcare must be "deficit-neutral" or he will veto it, is not true. Even the CBO agrees that it will cost into the trillions. I wish we would have done it in stages instead of slamming down our throats in an ultra-complex bill. If stage one was: a) All insurance companies can now compete throughout the U.S.-not just regulated state by state, b.) Ban "pre-existing condition" limits, insurance portability, remove the "caps" on some policies for lifetime payout (used to range from $500k to $1m, but is easy to go past with cancer, etc), Require every insurance company to offer a basic plan to cover emergency care and perhaps ala-cart choices.
If the law requiring penalties to anyone or business not buying insurance coverage is needed, then that is the Senate's call. But starting this way, simply removes most of the barriers with health care. Then fixing Medicare/Medicaid could be taken up seperately. I think the Republicans would have supported that.
What we have is too much, too fast, creating new taxes and charging them for 4 years before the health care even goes into effect. To me, I want to support Obama. It seems he is just going through a checklist. He needs to pay attention to getting jobs. If the Stimulus had been paid to taxpayers instead of large banks and AIG in particular, people would be spending this money and raising confidence to get out of this recession.
buzz44
this is just another attemp for goverment to control the american people most people that dont have health care prefor not to have it becouse they fell that they are in good health and i dont want the the gorverment telling me i have to pay for something i dont want i pay enough in taxes to support medicare. why should i be fined or pay hire taxes if my employes choice not to be covered under a health care plan. they are not listen to the american poeple they have there own interst in mind not the american people!!! we are in the trouble that were in becouse of big goverment now. we've bail out enough of there friends in bussiness and got nothing in return. the american poeple should have got that bail out money to stimulate the country
MinorityReport920
Not True. Most people don't have health care because they CAN'T AFFORD IT, plain and simple. To me the whole notion of health care being a profitable industry is absurd. It only makes sense that if large corporations are responsible for providing people coverage to maintain their health, those corporations will be more concerned with MAKING PROFITS, at the expense of denying people coverage, i.e. people unnecessarily dying. No I am not a left-wing NUT, nor a socialist. Yes I am a democrat but come on people USE YOUR HEADS. In the year 2009 we are unable to provide most of our citizens with health care. And we call ourselves a civilized society.
NoBull
All this bs about Lieberman! Gee! All the know-nothing Republicans spouting their junk about "entitlements" which the public option isn't, and people with info arguing with them.
Look, Lieberman said it's a matter or morality for him to oppose the pub option. This isn't about morality, politics is never about morality. This is about Joe L. He's no more moral than the fact that his claiming to want universal accessible health care when he campaigned last time contradicts what he says now.
Everyone's talking about Joe! That's what Joe wants! Bottom line, this is the epitome of scum (JL) who can be bought - with promises, positions, money for his state, whatever.
Personally, I think the Democrats should do something to make Ct. pay for L's actions, like... oh I don't know... maybe close the Groton ship yard if L votes wrong?
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
rnlopez
Right On!
kayadams
so let them fillibuster -- did not DB gives us a history of the fillibuster - don't they always end? so LET The Republicans fillibuster and let obama et al paint them as the obstructionists that they are ---- eventually they will have to stop their fillibuster under the weight of public opinion CALL their BLUFF REID
Lloydfamly
Have Harry tell us why he bought Mary Landrieu's vote.
MinorityReport920
AGREE, and so what if some of these senators jeopardize support from their constituents come to time for re-election. Most of America wants health care reform. Oh but I was I thinking. Politicians don't care about power, they care about serving a greater good..yeah right.
jus1drun
there won't be 60 votes but the dems continue to fiddle with health reform while the economy burns.
spotted
Healthcare is 1/6 of the economy so it IS about the economy.
Employers cannot accurately calculate employee costs to decide whether to hire without knowing what future benefits expenses will be.
jus1drun
yep! either an up or a down on health reform will take care of that problem.
KemCho
Appears that Lieberman may be the only real blue dog in the senate - all others so called blue dogs act like lap dogs. When their master Reid calls them, they stop barking and jump on his lap.
rnlopez
You are a greedy man.
lordmi
There are.
YES, WE CAN
jimbolini
Joe....just say NO!
dcbooknurse
McCain is right about one thing, there may be times when the Dems need 60 votes. If Lieberman is having trouble supporting the Democrats when the votes are needed, maybe Reid should suggest that Joe go ahead and caucus with the Republicans. That would mean losing his precious committee chair and the neocons would eat him alive, but if that's what would make Joe happy, he should go for it.
iamone3
Lieberman is not a Democrat or Republican ,hes Independent. Check it out.
ncsteeler
That's not what he said when running for reelection in 2006 - something to the effect "the voters have a choice of two democrates in this election"
Martyz42
Joe is to be honest & short winded a total piece of garbage... His wife works as a health care lobbyist, he collects millions from the health insurance companies to help in his re-election & lastly, he is a piece of garbage. (Can not be said enough)
If he does vote against the public option & against the Democrats & Harry the warm Reid does not take his leadership away form him I will join the hundreds of thousands of people & not give one dime to the Senate do nothing re-election committee....
Joe should also lose his office & be placed in the smallest closet office Reid can find in the back net to an alley where Joe can commune with the rats that he is so like......
artanna
Public option is just right for government take over but can you afford to add $2.5 trillion dollars from 2014 to 2024 for your kids ,grandkids, and great grandkids to pay? $849 Billion is not the true figure only a guess for the first 5 years! Try paying attention to the CBO's actual accounting, then take it out on Joe for doing what he was elected for--fiscal responsibility!
Lovemd62
Tell that to BUSH! After you and him sucked ever projected funds out of the Economy. It is sad when the Republicans were being fiscally sick, none of you Patriotic American told them to quit that waste of Tax Payers Dollars.
But now that this country is in a mess, all this talk about spending! Health Care reform is needed in this Great Country! We have the highest Rate of Diabetes, Cardiovascular Disease, Hypertension, Heart Attacks and a myriads of other Diseases that our beloved Insurance Big Money Makers are not willing to cover, After raking in Historical amount of Revenues over many years from 90's to 2000.
Notice the type of Buildings they build to harness the Funds! And thy are not willing to pay out a single payment when they are call in doing do.
They find every possible avenue to say that is not covered under your fine prints!
We need a public option Insurance company need competition! Insurance overhead is 25% Medicare is 5% cost to run! Medicare for all I say! its an already system that works.. it does not pay Dr. very well, but that can be modify! It is a system that is in place that can be tweaked to benefit all Americans.
Another part of Health Care Reform.. Is to Tax all bad food 15% to help pay for the cost of health care to those that does not gives a rats behind about their health. Because they are going to eat the crap anyways!
The perfect saying of the Smokers and the crack heads and the fatty food eaters, you are going to die from something any way. Since they have that mentality, let them pay the 15% that will be contributed to putting them on ventilators and dialysis.
Any health care reform must include life style change! Most of our problems in this country in diseases, are diet related diseases! Heart attack= Diet, Diabetes=Diet, Hypertension=Diet 30% of all cancer is diet related. Cancer is cause by 20 nasty Chemicals Found it FAT, all this happen since the inclusion of Refine food in our diet.
Alzheimer is cause by FAT! The brain is 60% Fat of itself, if you dope it with other fatty food! what you think will happen your brain be all bad fat instead of the good Fat.
Notice, No one is saying Americans are Skinny! Ha! They are saying Americans are getting more fatty every year! Children obesity is another problem, The Government Send these bad sick toxic American Garbage Refine Food into the schools, because its cheap trash and make most of our kids fat and sick, and cannot learn.
When a simple whole grain bowl of oats could make them healthier stronger and wiser! They have these dirty box milk that has no nutritional values in the school meal! Milk after 2 years of age is garbage.. And the Milk that I am speaking of after 2 years old, is Mothers Breast Milk, that helps in brain, immune and bone development.
The Grave and the Health System Burst open! Most of us die sick! Why not die healthy? I Say! Tell people if you keep eating trash refine food!
Pay a Tax on your Burger, Your Sugar, Your Alcohol, You Cigarettes, You Beef, Your Chicken, Your Lamb, You fatty food that is killing you. How are we going to fatten the cows then turn around and eat them, and not expect to be sick from all that fat?
artanna
Martyz42---Remember Carter and his Department of Energy? 32 years they have been seeking relief for "dependency on foreign oil" Have they found it? After billions of dallars and thousands of "government" employees added! Health care? What happens over the next 32 years??? To much government isn't good for the public regardless what party controls the reins!
mjwooten
Martyz42...best check your facts. I am not from Connecticut. http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00000616&cycle=2010
I don't see insurance companies on Mr. Joe's top contribution list? Find that information you claim to know and share it with the rest of us would you?
UnevenSteven
New Flash - Most Dem Senators are pieces of trash with family lobbyists. I
Let's see - VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN's son is a major lobbyist or was until recently. MAJORITY LEADER Tom Daschle's wife was MAJOR lobbyist when he was in power. Evan Bayh's wife regularly gets appointed to boards for which she is not qualified. Sen. Harkin's wife has been living off the public teat as a corporate lobbyist for investment companies that destroyed our nation - she was the head of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation. Frmr House Energy & Commerce Chairman Dingell's wife was a top auto industry executive. Sen BILL NELSON of Florida's son is a poor lobbyist, but still employed because his 's dads a Senator. Dem Judiciary Chairman John Conyer's wife just got convicted on federal bribery charges - pretty likely he was involved too and will go down in the next few years.
Also, the Senate Seniority system won't let Reid take Joe's office away.You really should have more of a clue before you spout your mouth off.
caretaker
you are the piece of trash. the republicans had eight years to do something/ all they did was rip off the american people.
THETRUTHbetold
Right on Marty...JOE IS GARBAGE and is slave to the Insurance industry!
a00013
Is it just me? Or did Obama not say..."I won't sign any bill that is not deficit-neutral, meaning he is now trying to take a hard stance on spending since we now are at percentages of debt similar to France.
I wish the health care issue had been done in stages: (i.e. first stop the insurance companies exclusion policies via their "pre-existing conditions" or reaching the maximum lifetime coverage limit; then take down the competitive barriers on insurance and let them compete nationwide, not state by state (this would vastly open up competition); also require insurance companies to have a very basic plan so that healthy individuals can get "emergency-catastrophic" coverage or perhaps more "ala-carte" options so that people can better afford coverage; and maybe...require all doctors to accept medicare/medicaid--high end doctors often do not.
Then see how fixing the major problems helps before taking more drastic steps that would add taxes and penalties to pay for the system for four years before the program even is effective.
I am appalled at both Republicans and Democrats. I do not understand the polarization. I believe 99% of all this is media driven (including late night stand up and SNL). I think our founding fathers might recant what they did with "Free Press" because it is too free. Much is exaggerated, misquoted, negative sound bites from politicians. I am also sick on the influence of the rich, rich people (Soros, Buffet, Murdoch, etc. They have their own agenda and interests and believe me--social services are not the core of their agenda!
hammer
Joe Lieberman is doing what's best for the citizens of Connecticut and the US. CT probably pays out more federal taxes that it receives that any other state on a percentage basis. The new health-tax-care will hit CT citizens much worse and depress an already fragile economy. Remember in 2011 the marginal tax rate goes from 35% to 39.6%. Then the Pelosi tax increases it another 5.4%. This is a 29% percent increase on the marginal tax rate. If that isn't an economic depressing act then what is? Second, CT is home to many insurance firms and the public option would eventually lead to the demise of the operations. How can a for profit insurance firm compete against an entity that doesn't seek a profit and takes on all health risks? It can't and eventually private insurance will erode and people will move to the public option because it is doesn't take in to account costs and risks.
JL realizes that the Obama/Pelosi/Reid (O/P/R) healthcare program is a big entitlement program that increases people's dependence on the government. This 2000 page lobby incentive, earmarked special favored political quagmire does nothing to solve the healthcare cost problem. They unrealistically expect Medicare providers and patients to take large cuts to fund the new health care entitlement program. Seniors and providers will revolt. The program doesn't do anything to address the real problem of over-usage of healthcare. If it doesn't cost the end-user anything to use healthcare then they will overuse it and get things they don't need. The Mayo Clinic in MN has probably the best hospitals and physicians in the US. However, the Medicare costs per patient are lower than almost anywhere? Why is that? Its because they practice patient healthcare rather than try to get reimbursed for each treatment needed or unneeded. O/P/R health is going to cost substantially more than the projected $1 trillion because those that don't have insurance today are probably in worse physical shape, have poorer health practices, don't qualify because of pre-conditions and are undercounted. Plus, when the new immigration bill passes in 2010 there exists the strong likelihood an additional 15-18 million people will be added to the current projected 30 million recipients. There aren't enough doctors to handle these additional patients.
Call Joe what you want, but he isn't running for re-election and this will be his last political office. He truly is looking out for CT and America and not special interests and a win at any cost Pelosi/Reid Congress. He hears the people. All polls show more people disfavor a radical healthcare entitlement, so why are O/P/R forcing it down the throats of the majority? If it were so good you would think the American public would know it.
PinkoLefty
hammerhead,
I think you're having some difficulty with definitions and facts here. Particularly the term "entitlement" seems to be a difficulty. The public option is not an entitlement, it's a non-profit organization. There's a massive difference. It is not designed to operate at a loss or be financed through taxes. It's designed to pay out to providers based on the payments from those enrolled.
Secondly, this notion of stifling economic activity by raising the top marginal income tax rates is pure nonsense. We are being handed our financial asses on a plate by China. Their top rate is 45% and it kicks in at 100000 CNY (roughly $15000 USD). That's fifteen thousand, not one hundred fifty thousand.
Do you really think that people are going to give up trying to make that next hundred million because they'll have to pay higher taxes on it? This is a tired old line invented to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. If the argument held any water at all then there would be "Out of Business" signs all over Europe, Canada, Australia, and Asia. There aren't. BT Group, Siemens, Tata, Ikea, BMW, Nokia, Porsche, Daimler AG, Fabrique Nationale, Steyr, Bombardier, RBS, HSBC, RBC, TD, CIBC, BP, the LSE, etc. all put the lie to this concept.
The simple fact of the matter is that most business owners don't even have to realize their actual earnings. I know because I am in that position. I pay ridiculously little tax on a rather large income. My corporation owns things that I just happen to use a lot. My corporation likes to pay for things that I enjoy doing, so it doesn't really matter much to me that my personal tax statements show a rather paltry income in comparison to my corporation's earnings. I can even keep paying myself a salary after I "retire", all while investing the existing corporate capital in whatever I want and still paying very low corporate tax rates and deducting trade fees and investment "research" (this might involve flights, hotels, meals and entertainment that might have been rather pleasant even without the need to do "research").
In short, you've been had. The right wing that wants to keep the status quo is laughing at you for repeating their bullshit. If they manage to get you to help kill health care reform and secure a capital gains tax cut then they might actually suffer an outbreak of ruptured organs and catatonic smiling due to prolonged intense amusement. Don't worry about them though. They've got pretty good health coverage.
kayadams
PEOPLE
listen to this post
it is
PERFECT
now to "hammer" it into the knuckleheads who have been scammed by the rightwingnuts
spinozareader
Pinko
Thanks for your candor. You "get it" about how good you got it. And I respect your willingness to "come clean" about it.
Your post provides honest witness for making the case that our current tax laws are in need of serious correction. And you certainly seem to have an appreciation of the surreal sort of "Stockholm Syndrome" the right wing can inspire in people--rendering them willing to fight for a wicked and crippling status-quo that is, IN NEARLY EVERY WAY, counter to their own best interests.
The rich have been getting richer for a long time in our country. And the middle class have been asleep at the wheel--drunk with their own "imagined wealth"--conferred via being "invited" into the "debt casino" created by banks that beckon one to buy WAY more home/Hummer/whatever than he/she can rightly afford; seemingly-limitless increases in credit card allowances (i.e. back in the 'Golden Age' of credit cards--when they chummed the financial waters by sending cards out to ANYONE--regardless of income or ability to pay back debt).
A lot of these folks won't become politically engaged until they realize that their Middle Class footing has been shifting beneath them--by things like job loss or a serious/costly medical diagnosis. Then, maybe, they'll sniff out the Bread and Circuses spell they've been living under.
But that's a scary scenario. By the time most of the middle class 'realizes' it's lost ground...things could get very ugly.
carriejo
Well you sound like you evade taxes on your income, yet you feel everyone else shoud pay higher taxes. In China $7,000 per year is a good salary and in the US when you add in State, local, Social Security, Sales, Real Estate and Medicaid taxes. What is the rate here? When did a non-profit organization get the power to tax? Last time I looked we were raising taxes for this healthcare program.
hammer
pinko,
What is the safety net for the citizen in China?
Do you believe the "healthcare" program will reduce costs? If you do then you aren't only a pinko but a dumbo.
For people who don't own corporations like you that scam our government, we working wealthy do care about tax rates.
Hypocrites like you speak from a bully pulpit because it doesn't affect you. It is always easy to spend someone else's money.
My point is that Joe Lieberman understand his constituency and he knows that the true cost of these propose programs cost multiples of what people are projecting and the healthcare program does nothing to reduce costs.
Rant and rave about what you want.
artanna
Pinkolefty your reply about not for profit is a joke, our government isn't in the business to not make a profit--how else but to tax and spend to put it bluntly, you won't be paying for healthcare--but if you have kids, grank-kids, or great grandkids, they will be paying!
iamone3
It is said "Confession is good for the soul".
daveinboise
You bring up some good points but there are other items to also examine when looking at this bill. With health care coverage which has no strings attached to it, like those pesky pre-conditions guidelines, American workers can be looking forward to higher wages. When people start having families, health care becomes an important factor when looking for work. If an American worker knows that switching jobs won't mean giving up their health care security blanket, more workers are free to look for higher paying jobs or jobs with other types of benefits which will improve their families life. A freer-flowing work force will mean better wages since employers will compete for workers, not the other way around.
Next, people will be able to get preventive care and wellness exams. These exams can only help to get Americans to lead a healthier life style, reducing health care costs and the reliance of ER's as the main source of medical care. The Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic are both against this current bill and I wish our political leaders would bring them into the fray to offer suggests to reduce health care costs. Both seem to have better answers then what we currently have.
You are worried about adding 15-18 million new workers to are economy. We already have these workers here in the country. Yes, some of them have left since the pot of gold is not available any more, but these workers are paying taxes on their wages, all going to the Treasury. Keeping them around is not going to add stress to our economic condition. They are only going to add to the tax revenue of the country.
Probably the most important reason to get a health care reform bill passed is very simple. A wealth country like our should not have anyone worrying about any health care issues. No one.
ddmin1
daveinboise, you make some great points - just wanted to add that I know many people of retirement age who are hanging on to jobs because they need the insurance. Some of them would like to go ahead and start new careers beginning their own businesses. So, by tying their health care to their jobs, not only are they taking a job someone else could use but they are being blocked from creating new jobs. And, a wealthy country like ours should not have anyone worrying about any health care issues. No one.
AlanD2
hammer: Joe's wife Hadassah formerly worked for two PR and lobbying firms, Hill & Knowlton and APCO, handling pharmaceutical and health care clients, but was never a registered lobbyist.
Joe gets lots of campaign funds from insurance companies headquartered in Connecticut.
He who pays the piper calls the tune.
The citizens of Connecticut are not paying the piper...
rnlopez
I'm sure his constituents don't agree with him.
Baddchild
Maybe Hadassah could replace Service Employees International Union President Andrew Stern since he never registered as a lobbyist either.
Joe's only real problem is liberal democrat whiners who think he shouldn't speak his mind or follow the directive of his constituents in Connecticut. The Libs wanted to get rid of him for putting the safety of the US and Isreal ahead of his party and the good folks of Connecticut spanked the democrats putting him back in place as an Independent.
Get over it, the country wants an America first goverment, not a socialst democrat first goverment.
bgeasyas123
your post would make sense, except those same good folks of conneticut are the ones who "didn't" vote for him.
Monk66
Joe's real problem is E.D.
Baddchild
um, the man won re-election over some democratic weenie thanks to the votes of Republicans, Independents and Conservative Democrats, so yes, the good folks are exactly the ones who voted for him.
bobzaguy
So, sleeping with the Senator from CT while whispering about client contributions to the Senator's PAC isn't lobbying? What is it?
That is more than paying the piper.
artanna
Hammer, you have that right. Rob Peter to pay Paul--take away from one program is NOT saving a dime. I think $2.5 trillion is to much for healthcare!
Robbing medicare is doing just that--taking from one to fund another, how is that saving a dime?
wolfboi1970
Hammered... what the hell are you on, and what country are you living in??? There are MORE IN FAVOR, than opposed yo-yo... get your facts straight...and the tide is only turning more in favor with every passing day, as people STOP listening to idiots like you, and start educating themselves with...oh i dunno....FACTS!!!! Joe is a SCUMBAG, AND SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF EVERY BIT OF POWER HE HAS, IF HE TURNS ON AMERICA, AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DYING AMERICANS!!!
ndspinelli
Thank you for making my point numerous times, sometimes in caps lock.
voskidly
only problem for you with hammered is hammered dare disagree with a lib, constructive disagreement has evaporated with pc mindset of liberal weenies. Go live in Europe with socialists caving to Islam. Wake up idiot, nothing is free, you don't get anything for nothing, it will cost something in the end. Competition? self reliance? the best medical care in the world you will have to travel to the Carribean or else where to obtain it if you of course can afford to. Where is the tort reform? where are the choices available with the 1300 insurance offerings but not available across state lines? Let the government handle this? You are weak
larose501
Joe's problem is... he lost a lot of his PAC backing, Insurance, Medical and Pharmacuetical. He has managed to hold on to GEPAC (Genera Electric, maker of all hospital imaging equipment), PFIZER, TRAVELRS, AMD MASSACHUSETTES MUTUAL, he wants to show them and the PACS that left him that he is worthy. Congress is driven by PACS, they owe PACs and the PACs will force their hands.
This is not a Democratic country. Our Legislators are owned by Political Action Groups and if you want to know how your Reps and Senators will vote, look at the PACs that contribute to them. (congress.org, info readily available) All of them take money from communications companies, remeber that the next time your TV freezes or breaks up in the crazy looking checks when the wind blows hard! PACs that is what Joe wants!
ThinkAgain
Don't get too carried away. A whole lot of people WORK for those companies. You know that little thing called JOBS? And they do provide needed products and services. Do people elect politicians who are fully knowledgeable about these industries and companies? No. If one of those Pacs represents your industry, your job might just depend on them keeping Congress from passing some lunacy that wipes your job out.
wolfboi1970
The problem with that argument is that, no matter how much the laws swing or dont swing MASSIVE extra funds to these companies, there will be VERY little flux in jobs...to keep running and functioning properly, there will always be a "BASE" of employees...the corrupt excees flow of money to these companies only goes to the TOP CIRCLES OF EXECS...MORE MONEY DOESN'T USUALLY INCREASE JOB NUMBERS...IT INCREASES MILLION DOLLAR SALARIES TO A SMALL HANDFUL, just as the lack of "excess" funds doesn't DECREASE jobs in these companies...they are already running on skeleton crews, to squeeze as much saving out to line their corrupt pockets and stock holders pockets...so your argument about the poor workers doesnt ever float well when dealing with corruption...the workers are ALWAYS BEING SCREWED
carriejo
Yes the government is a corrupt place............look at Dodd the other Senator from CT.
ndspinelli
It wasn't too long ago that being independent, thinking for oneself, and going against the flow was admirable. Lowell Weicker was a Republican Seantor from Ct. when he showed what integrity means, taking a lead in the Watergate hearings. Joe Lieberman is a good and decent man. When I read the vile comments from some, it is obvious what is in their hearts. Joe Lieberman does not have a malicious bone in his body. And, those who have attacked him over Iraq, healthcare, and other issues have not changed that
wolfboi1970
BLAH BLAH, GO MARRY HIM!
ndspinelli
Thank you for making my point.
IncredulousGeezer
Clear what Joe wants, or rather, needs. The continued support of the powerful insurance companies that have great influence in CT. He is up for reelection in 2012 and knows that he will likely be opposed by popular now Governor Jodi Rell who has announced she will not seek reelection and is reputed to have her eye on the Senate. The insurance companies would love to be able to support a Republican who looks like a winner. Stay tuned.
Truth78
I doubt Rell will run for national office. I don't think she even really wanted to be the governor, it just happened that way with Roland being put away. The person to watch for Joe's seat is Richard Blumenthal, who hopefully will finally run and take Joe out of the senate.
LutfiUSMC
Joe next stop is much warmer than were he is know, joe have sold more than his sole, he sold the rest of his state and the country, his hearing yesterday, stacked to get the result that he was looking for , the truth i guess is not important, its the show , what a waisted piece of trash.
ndspinelli
Thank you for making my point.
wolfboi1970
BLAH BLAH, SHUT UP
fk4711
I hope Joe marches to his own beat and march right over the cliff. Despite the majority of the people in Connecticut (over 60%) wants public option, Joe-campaign money from health insurance company-Liberman want nothing to do with it. Is he service the people of his state or the fat cat insurance company CEOs?
spotted
For all the money he and he wife have taken from the insurance companies, he's bought and paid for. He will not vote for the bill.
Even so, if he can get something for CT in return, he may vote for cloture.
ThinkAgain
Polls show they dont' even know what it is! Nor do you. You run around saying it's going to force the insurance companies to compete but the CBO says it's premiums will actually be a little higher than private insurance AND very very few people will even be given the option of the public option. How in the hell is that going to put pressure on the insurance companies?!
You don't have any credibility when it comes to criticizing Joe or anyone about their motives when you just support it no matter what it actually is.
jmickey
Funny, ThinkAgain. Just a couple of posts ago, you were complaining about all the jobs lost to the public option if this travesty is allowed to move forward. But how would all these jobs be lost if the public option is a) more expensive and b) available to only a very few? If there is going to be no pressure on the insurance companies, then why worry so much?
If nothing else, I am more worried that these plans are nothing more than a HUGE public handout TO the insurance industry. They are going to have millions of new clients, subsidized by the government, forced into having health coverage. IMHO, you cannot have an insurance mandate without a viable public option or without opening up the industry and removing many of the state-to-state restrictions in place now.
And I definitely question your motives, and Joe's as well. You have no credibility when you contradict yourself so blatantly.
rnlopez
take an econ class and think for yourself man.
wolfboi1970
Think again...THINK...for a change...think for yourself instead of puking up lies you read off of neocon blogs...can you READ??? pick up CREDIBLE publications, with FACTS (look it up) that can be backed up...and LEARN THE TRUTH....AND THEN....THINK AGAIN!!!
Aslanleon
This is delightful. Here we have alleged liberals trashing one of the most liberal Senators in the entire Congress. Look at his ADA voting record. Apparently, being a Democrat is more like being a member of the Supreme Soviet than being a Congressman-- any deviation from the party line means that ol' Joe is a nonperson. The best part is that he is called a traitor for not completely supporting a party that threw him to the wolves a couple of years ago. While Democratic opposition to Lieberman might well guarantee a Republican victory for the Senate in 2012, I almost hope he does win. He makes the right people so very angry.
bgeasyas123
Sounds just like the republican party
bobzaguy
And if he sees he won't win, he'll change sides again. Just like Specter did. Fuck the people, I have to have this job-the cry of the Senator.
ThinkAgain
I like the opt out if the states can truly fully opt out. That'll give us a nice little referendum on it so we can show our appreciation for the time they wasted on it. Most states can't even afford their current bills right now, let alone their part of this.
briansays
all supporters of the public option should not split their vote in 2012
and the dems should just put up a token opponent
then everyone vote for the republican to knock him off
you need to make this the sole issue dtermining your vote
if i lived in CT id vote for joe the plumber just to pay him back
ThinkAgain
Gotta love how the leftwingnuts get off on ridiculing the republicans for eating their own but don't seem to see it when they do the same.
gak001
He's not a Democrat; he's an Independent who caucuses with the Democrats and ACTUALLY was a traitor to his party (remember the whole supporting the Republican candidate thing?). Moderate Republicans are attacked by the fringe and pushed out; there's a distinct difference.
AlanD2
ThinkAgain: I guess you've forgotten that Lieberman campaigned for McCain, and was almost his Vice-Presidential candidate.
Not exactly the actions of a liberal Democrat, now.
wolfboi1970
INDEPENTS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO CAUCUS WITH ANY PARTY DEM/REP THEY ARE INDEPENDENT AND THEREFORE SHOULD STAY ALONE AND INDEPENDENT....HE WANTS HIS CAKE AND EAT IT TOO...SCREW JOE AND HIS WIFE
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