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The Next Wingnut Attack
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And you thought the health-care fight was vicious. As the White House wades into immigration, John Avlon reports on the vitriol ahead. Plus, the 25 most outrageous attacks, past and present.
Health care may be dominating the headlines, but history shows us that it’s well time for the latest immigration freak-out in America.
We’ve got all the tell-tale signs: a rough economy with high unemployment, times of great political change, and anger at “the other.” Hell, the "birthers" believe we have an illegal immigrant as president.
In fact, much of the wingnut anger we’ve been seeing this year riffs off some of the earliest ugliness in our politics—appropriately known as “the Know-Nothings.” This was a pre-Civil War era group devoted to blaming our young country’s ills on the immigrants of that era—namely Catholics of the Irish and German variety. They decried the lack of assimilation and alleged secret plots to destabilize the republic through fealty to the pope. Their nightmare in the White House would have been JFK.
America has always been a nation of immigrants, but somehow defending our heritage has always meant denying our heritage to some folks. So protestant New Yorkers formed the Order of the Star-Spangled Banner in 1849 as a secret society to highlight their more patriotic-than-thou bona fides. By 1852 they were a full-fledged political party, known as the American Party. Nativists’ mob-appeal means that they cannot last for long—they collapse under the weight of their own hate, ironically their essential un-American-ness. Many became Republicans.
Of course, anti-immigrant fervor still bubbles up—the targets shift as waves of immigration move the latest threat from Europe to south of the border to Asia and Africa. The phenomenon of illegal immigration and multi-generational linguistic segregation has made the tensions worse in recent years.
Arizona’s John McCain almost lost his party’s nomination for trying to work with another border-state Republican—President George W. Bush—to pass immigration reform in 2007. Now word comes that President Barack Obama is going to soon take on immigration reform—presumably because he doesn’t have enough on his plate. Here’s the positive spin: You’ve got to admire the man’s ambition.
Obama’s presence in the White House has already stoked some of the old Know-Nothing fires. Even figures like Pat Buchanan have been getting into the action publishing a column decrying the end of white America: “Without the assent of her people, America is being converted from a Christian country, nine in 10 of whose people traced their roots to Europe as late as the time of JFK, into a multiracial, multiethnic, multilingual, multicultural Tower of Babel not seen since the late Roman Empire.”
In another section of the column, the former Nixon and Reagan aide—whose own ancestors would have been the targets of Nativist anger—decries the new heroes of our evolving America: “Old heroes like Columbus, Stonewall Jackson, and Robert E. Lee are replaced by Dr. King and Cesar Chavez.” The fact that Pat singles out not one but two members of the Confederate Army speaks volumes about the impulses and ironies behind this allegedly pro-America movement.
So get ready for a new round of the ugly. The following list is of some of the most pungent anti-immigrant quotes from our recent wingnut history—from the racist to the ridiculous. Expect new additions to be added to this ring of dishonor in the coming months. A drum-roll please for the top hits of hate both from the original recipe, and the newest flavors of Know-Nothings:
1. “I think we now have sufficient population in our country for us to shut the door and to breed up a pure, unadulterated American citizenship. I recognize that there is a dangerous lack of distinction between people of a certain nationality and the breed of the dog.”—Senator Ellison DuRant Smith, April 9, 1924, the same year Congress passed the Johnson-Reed Act (also known as the Immigration Act of 1924), which banned European and Asian immigrants.
2. “Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this republic whenever he gets ready."—President Woodrow Wilson in regard to “hyphenated Americans,” early 1900s.
3. Mexico "has been overtaken by lawbreakers from the bottom to the top…And now what you're protesting for is to have lawbreakers come here."—Glenn Beck, March 2006.
4. "They will get ladders made out of mesquite and climb it."—Maverick County, Texas, Sheriff Tomas S. Herrera, October 10, 2006, on how illegal immigrants would deal with a wall on the border.
5. "If American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Quran."—Representative Virgil Goode, USA Today, January 2, 2007.
6. "An immigration agent chased him for the last 10 miles."—Rush Limbaugh, on why Salvador Garcia, a Mexican, won the 1991 New York City Marathon.
7. “We don’t need illegals...Send ‘em all back. Send ‘em back with a bullet in the head the second time.”—Protester outside a high-school auditorium in Portsmouth, N.H. August 2009.
8. "Many Hispanics, as a matter of fact, you know what culture they are assimilating to? The rap culture, the crime culture, anti-cops, all the rest of it."—Pat Buchanan, Fox News, August 22, 2006
9. “The invasion of illegal aliens is threatening the health of many Americans.”—Lou Dobbs, Lou Dobbs Tonight, April 14, 2005, introducing a (later debunked) story on how illegal immigrants are bringing leprosy back to America.
10. "We need the National Guard to clean out all our cities and round them up... They have no problem slitting your throat and taking your money or selling drugs to your kids or raping your daughters, and they are evil people."—Chris Simcox, co-founder of the Minuteman Project and president of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. As quoted in the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report magazine, Summer 2005.
11. "I don't care if Mexicans pile up against that fence ... just run a couple of taco trucks up and down the line..."—Neal Boortz, talk-radio host on WSB-AM in Atlanta on June 18, 2007.
12. "My message to them is, not in two weeks, not in two months, not in two years, never! We must be clear that we will not surrender America and we will not turn the United States over to the invaders from south of the border."—Rep. Virgil Goode (R-VA), at the March for America, Washington, DC, June 18, 2007.
13. "Shoot him."—Phil Valentine, anti-immigration talk-radio host, WWTN in Nashville, advising Border Patrol agents to shoot undocumented immigrants during an anti-immigrant rally in Franklin, Tennessee, April 27, 2006.
14. "Terrorists are also walking in unopposed; our southwestern border is littered with Arabic papers and Islamic prayer rugs."—Jim Gilchrist, founder of Minutemen Project, February 2006.
15. "The brown toxic cloud strangling Los Angeles never lifts and grows thicker with every immigrant added. One can't help appreciate the streets of Paris will soon become the streets of L.A. However, Paris' streets erupted while L.A.'s shall sink into a Third World quagmire much like Bombay or Calcutta, India. When you import that much crime, illiteracy, multiple languages, and disease—Americans pick up stakes and move away."—Frosty Wooldridge, anti-immigration author and activist, summarizing an address by a KABC-AM talk-radio host, to the Federation for American Immigration Reform director's meeting, Fall 2005.
16. "What we'll do is randomly pick one night every week where we will kill whoever crosses the border...step over there and you die. You get to decide whether it's your lucky night or not. I think that would be more fun."—Brian James, talk-radio host with KFYI-AM in Phoenix, March 2006.
17. "Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Languages or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion."—Benjamin Franklin, "Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind," 1751
18. "Mexican-Americans can now become citizens of Mexico again. The whole idea is to create this giant fifth column in the United States which can leverage the American government in elections and pressure them to do what is in the interest of the nation of Mexico."—Pat Buchanan, Fox News, August 22, 2006.
19. "We've got to make it in this country so (immigrants) can't exist here...We've got to rattle their teeth and put their feet to the fire!"—Terry Anderson, anti-immigrant talk-radio host with KRLA in Los Angeles, April 22, 2007.
20. "Our enemies are bloodied and beaten. We cannot relent. Our boot is on their throat and we must have the willingness to crush their "throat" so that we can put our enemy down for good. The sovereignty of our nation and the future of our culture and civilization is at stake."—Joseph Turner, Save Our State (S.O.S), now a staff member with the Federation for American Immigration Reform, October 7, 2006.
21. "Does this First World nation wish to become a Third World country? Because that is our destiny if we do not build a sea wall against the waves of immigration rolling over our shores..."—Pat Buchanan, syndicated column, 1990.
22. "The number of purely white People in the World is proportionally very small…in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are Germans also, the Saxons only accepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth."—Benjamin Franklin, "Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind," 1751.
23. "Mexican men have a reputation for leering and worse at little girls, which shouldn't surprise us, since sex with children is socially acceptable in Mexico."—Brenda Walker, California anti-immigrant leader and publisher. From VDARE.com article titled "Top Ten Reasons Why the U.S. Should Not Marry Mexico," January 1, 2007.
24. “[Miami] has become a Third World country. You just pick it up and take it and move it someplace. You would never know you’re in the United States of America. You would certainly say you’re in a Third World country.”—Tom Tancredo, November 2006.
25. “Americans man toll booths, pave roads, embalm bodies, and inspect sewers. Yet people really expect us to believe that they won't pick strawberries or oranges? It just doesn't add up.”—Glenn Beck, 2008
John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books.
For inquiries, please contact The Daily Beast at editorial@thedailybeast.com.
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Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
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Jacob Bernstein is a senior reporter at The Daily Beast. Previously, he was a features writer at WWD and W Magazine. He has also written for New York magazine, Paper, and The Huffington Post.
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Jeff Madrick is a contributor to the New York Review of Books and a former economics columnist for the New York Times. He is editor of Challenge Magazine, visiting professor of humanities at Cooper Union, and senior fellow at the New School's Schwartz Center for Economic Policy Analysis. He is the author of Taking America, The End of Affluence (Random House) and The Case for Big Government.
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John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
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John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
Bush Wrecked 9/11
John P. Avlon writes a column for The Daily Beast and is author of the forthcoming Attack of the Wingnuts, to be published in January by Beast Books. He is also the author of Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics. Previously, he served as chief speechwriter for New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and was a columnist and associate editor for The New York Sun.
I don't think it's an "end of white America," I think it's an end of law abiding and productive citizens. We can't afford the citizens we have sucking off the government tit and we want to put more on there? You think they will suddenly start keeping their earnings in this country instead of going to the local Western Union and wiring it back to Mexico? They'll go home, get their women pregnant, bring them back 9 months later for their "free birth," then go back to Mexico. It will still be too costly to live here, but it won't matter, they'll be citizens of convenience....coming over for their freebies, then heading back.
We are idiots....this is Change We Can Believe In? You think taxes and inflation are getting bad now....just wait until we can't unelect this administration and all the idiots that enable them in the congress because we've granted amnesty and citizenship to all their voters?
I hear you so-cal. That's what we're up against. That's the goal. Get so many Pauls the vote that they always vote to take Peter's money.
The flaw in their plan it that all such regimes always collapse of their own weigth. It's just like in Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead". The leftist goons can destroy the product of the Producers, but they can't make it run without them
It's like when John Galt looked up from his torture bed and told the goon how to fix the machine he was being tortured with.
Will our side win eventually? Of course. A is A
Reardon, I don't know if it will happen in our lifetime, but when some other nation that has become stronger while we become weaker, comes to take us, the warrior class will have been so fed up they will allow it to happen. I'd like to see these loudmouthed pansies try to defend themselves.
Our slow moral decline to nation that values "what feels good is good" is evident already with our Hollywood scum defending other scum such as Polanski. I would love to have a night with an actor's 14 year old daughter and see how they feel? I of course wouldn't do it, but it's the point that matters here.
As our children grow up seeing this ideology, it chips away at the moral fabric of this great nation and their view of what's right and wrong in the world.
I grew up with Reagan from 10-18 years old. I learned good life lessons with a good mentor as president. Howabout those that grew up with Clinton from 10-18? What did they learn? To lie? To cheat? To do both, yet get away with it? "What feels good is good" because you have the power and the means? Look at the generation that grew up after his presidency? It's the "all about me" generation? Who here that works with this age group of people isn't fed up with their lack of work ethic and horrible attitude?
Here they come over the border to rape our cattle and steal our women. That's what's kept socal and reardon from getting anywhere in life, it's those darn immigrants! Otherwise they would be fabulously successful instead of frustrated drones.
HAHAHAHAHA.
Good one Norton.
As I recall, it was the kids who grew up under Reagan who felt like making money was the number one priority and to heck with anyone els.
Will you Randians (or whatever you call yourselves) open your eyes? The "left-wing goons" didn't destroy capitalism, the stupid, corrupt, greedy disgusting capitalists did that all by themselves! Then the have the balls to come crying to the government, saying "Could we have a little bit of that Socialism now?" Also, Ayn Rand was a bad writer; sociologically, politically and histocially wrong wrong wrong. Her only good feature was her atheism.
Reardon -
You do realize, of course, that Ayn's own protege - a Mr. Alan Greenspan - is largely responsible for failing to see the greatest economic depression since the 1920's? And that her economic philosophy - the complete, rational market - was proved to be fatally flawed. A little thing called behavioral economics and market bubbles.
Atlas shrugged alright, but only because he didn't know the answer and got it wrong.
That's 'Atlas Shrugged', you idiot.
Squid-
Even Greenspan
Has renounced Ayn Rand.
Rear Dude, Rand is NOT left or right.
I love these religious readings of Rand in churches. If you believe in make-believe don't pretend to understand pretentious philosophy.
Numonk:
The Moochers claim your money with tears. They are all on the left.
The Looters claim you money with guns. The vast majority of them, and the current ruling regime, are all on the left.
The Producers who actually MAKE the money, well the vast majority of them are on the right.
There's a very simple test of this.
They need us.........we don't need them.
You think Ayn Rand was just some wacky novelist? Well, you might want to rethink that.
When the goons got their hands on Galt, they acted like they were going to work with him, let him tell them what they should do. The goons were going to be so kind. Galt looked at them and said, "what the hell do we need you for?"
The only power they have over us, is the power we grant them.
"Evil requires the sanction of the victim."
rita, you're so easily amused. That's nice.
lieutenant70, I know two paragraphs can be alot for some of you, but in one of them I'm talking about "The Fountainhead." In the other one, I'm talking about John Galt. Unfreakin' believable.
This is what we're up against. Idiots with a forum.
nortonclybourn, I have no problem with immigrants, even illegal ones. It's Democrats I can't stand. Moochercrats, led by the Lootercrats.
Oh my Gods, you are basing your argument on one of Ayn Rand's delusional rant/novels? No wonder the state of debate in our republic is so bad, people confuse fairytales for reality.
I seriously don't know how people can like Ayn Rand. She's just an awful writer. I got 100 pages through "The Fountainhead" and I had to stop because it was just so boring and whiney. It read like one long, selfish rant that made vague philosophical connections that were horribly illustrated and presented.
Xenophobic and racist !!! I have sent away for rolls of lead foil and titanium foil to line my DDG 67 USS COLE bridge hat to keep the "cosmic rays" affecting these people off of my brain.
You are an idiot
Oh, dear. I was unaware that all those "Mexicans" came rushing over our border to destroy our way of life so recently. When did this start?
We've got to nip this in the bud, before seven to twelve million of these people come here and settle in. Oh, wait.....
Seriously, we asked for this. It was fine when a relative few came to pick potatoes and left town when the work was done. Now they do lots of work we used to do for ourselves, they've formed communities, and have children that are American citizens. We may have to live with that, to some extent.
In my community, immigrants from Central and South America have revived one of our larger, run down business districts. It's bustling now, most store fronts are rented, and crime is down. It's bright and cheerful and people are working and spending money there.
It's mostly a question of reform, or don't reform. I say reform, and with amnesty, better law enforcement, and better border security. Illegal immigration, like most other things in this world, has good points and bad. They're not all running around raping the white women, you know. From where I"m standing, most of them seem to be hard working family types.
We used to have
A more sensible immigration policy
That allowed migrants to come in
When they were needed
And then go home.
BUT NO
We had to tighten everything up
And make it impossible for them to re-enter
The country- so they started staying
Instead of returning to their families
At the end of the harvest season.
More butt-headed thinking
From the wingnuts who screw up
Everything they touch.
This writer is a complete "nut" himself. How partisan can this article be?
We have a significant problem in this country with illegal immigration and it can all be traced back to bad policy from both Dems and Repubs. Both parties are pandering to get the "mexican" vote and aren't paying attention to details.
The Dems continue to increase the minimum wage. This causes more and more small business employees to hire illegals to do the work for nearly free. So-Cal said it best, this new generation sucks and they don't want to work. They want the hand out and increasing minimum wage isn't helping. A recent study came out showing younger people are at the lowest employment rate in 60 years. Yes, some of it is the economy, but alot of it is they don't want to work. They have been taught they don't have too. Since these dopes aren't working, the illegals are getting all of the labor- non union jobs. Small business owners are fine with it because they can get around the minimum wage pay that is strangeling them.
The other problem is the inner city. Inner city kids can't find work or won't find work. The government should come up with a strategy to help get these kids off the streets and into labor intensive, responsible jobs. There is a significant trust factor with inner city kids though. Sure, call me racist, but you can't deny facts. As a small business owner myself, I would love to help out my community and an inner city kid if he was willing to do the job. The problem is they never come around asking for a job. You can't find American kids willing to work anymore, only illegals.
This is a serious discussion that needs to be had. I believe this debate is almost as big as Afghanistan to the welfare of our country.
With all due respect to clearthinker, I clearly think this issue is a bit more complicated than 'Dems and Repubs'. And it goes back pretty much to the beginning of the agricultural industry in the south, west, and points between.
Blame aside, the issue now is that you've got seven to twelve million illegal immigrants in this country (Nobody knows for sure how many, so that tells me we don't know who or where they are), and we've gone from just depending on them to keep our agricultural industry afloat and keeping prices down, to now positively influencing many local economies outside of agriculture. That last is a hint as to why so many of America's Mayors and Governors, and so many business leaders, aren't screaming to get rid of illegal immigrants.
If health care reform proponents get half of what they want, I think it will be an indication that immigration can and will follow. Bush largely had his own party to fight on his immigration reform attempt. President Obama's got more political and popular support than some folks want to admit, he's facing a weakened right, the town hall screamers have lost credibility, and he seems a more capable battler. We'll see.
PS to clearthinker-
I think you hit the nail on the head saying that immigration and immigration reform is almost as important an issue to the US as Afghanistan is. Absolutely.
clearthinker
You are such an old man...back in my day we used to wear pancakes and eat shoes...doesn't every generation of old people say this same thing? Its not the kids making the rules here so don't go around blaming them look to those who are teaching these children..like old(er) men and women.
Are you and Nancy Pelosi related
Who got the "Mexican Vote" last election?
I would love to see TDB put little tag next to all our screennames that show what country the commenter is posting from. It wouldn't have to get to city level, the country will do.
I'd be willing to bet half you moochers are from somewhere other than the U.S. of A.
When I was a kid, there was a relatively small percentage of Moochers. Now they are a dime a dozen.
typical southern californian..
Please to the rest of the country, Californians are not all like this. There is an invisible line from around Monterey that distinguishes this type of person (so-cal "centrist" aka far right centered) from someone who actually looks at the world without this type of prejudice.
take a step down from your pedestal and work a day in the life of one of the 95% of "border crossers" who are law abiding and work the fields for 10 hours a day. Go work 2 full-time jobs to make enough money to live in a house with 12 other people while trying to make ends meet.
Read the bill the senate is about to pass to see that this "you lie!" crap about illegal immagration is just a false rumor made to conjure up hate against a bill that is truely good for america. Look up the facts and see that we wont be paying for illegals to get free medical.
I'm disgusted to share the same state with this type of person. the ignorance leaves most of us as you head north up I-5.
Thanks, I was a little worried.
Well that's pretty stupid of you. I live a few miles from the border and you admittedly live in northern Cal...and you're going to tell me how it is in my part of the state? Puuhhhleeeease!
how can you say that they are law abiding when the first thing they did to get over here is break the law.I have no problem with legal immagration,it's the whole illegal thing I have a problem with.
No one is refutiating the work ethic of illegals. That isn't the issue. There are only so many jobs for so many people. The illegals are taking the jobs of other Americans. Auntbarb is correct in saying this is beyond a Democrat/Republican issue. How do we get legal Americans to do these jobs and pay them fairly? How do we get American business owners to stop taking advantage of cheap pay and get them to give fair pay to legal Americans? Solve this problem and we could get somewhere.
It is never fruitful to bash someone who disagrees with you. People have differing opinions in every state in this country, not just northern or southern California.
Big howdy from the Free State of Jefferson!
"There are only so many jobs for so many people"
Really? Have you actually thought that through? If this is true, then we should just stop having children for a while. Then we'd have full employment. Or that if we had capped the US population at 200 million, we'd have like 50 million extra jobs out there, just waiting for new Americans to snap them up.
Glen Beck's contention that Americans would gladly pick fruit since they already work as undertakers or municipal sewer works is ridiculous; Americans born here don't take the day-laborer jobs because they pay less than half of the other jobs he references. There are without a doubt some jobs that American citizens would prefer not to have. And if they did want those jobs and were getting crowded out by illegals, what does it say about their skills?
If you're in the market for a low-paying job and getting beat out by someone who doesn't speak the language, had little or no education, has no access to healthcare and no connections to leverage, it doesn't mean an illegal stole your job; it means you're a horrible prospective employee. Suck it up and better yourself through education and hard work, rather than blaming your shortcomings on people trying infinitely harder than you are.
It's not a lie. If you believe what's coming out of the mouths of Joe the coward Biden, Nancy the liar Pelosi and Obama Bin Laden then you are in for the surprise of your life. Obama Bin Laden is well on his way to introducing this country to social communism. If you don't believe that then look into the teachings of the church he attended for so many years and then suddenly distanced himself from when he thought it was endangering his Presidential Race. Look into the backgrounds of the thugs he has surrounded himself with as advisors. These people couldn't pass the most benign background checks and look where they are. His advisors are all acknowledged communists, socialists and in some cases convicted criminals. Yeah we're in great hands. Get ready...winter time is coming to America.
props to Maverick: your post was off a bit. I know you find this hard to believe, but many Americans do labor intensive jobs, not because they want to but because the HAVE to. It is shortsided on your part to just think Americans won't do these jobs. This is the point to this whole argument. IF Americans were paid appropriately and did not receive as much financial help from uncle sam then they would be forced into these jobs. My grandfather worked on oil wells and my other grandfather worked in the fields picking cotton and taking care of a 350 acre farm. How many younger AMericans are doing this. I know people here think I'm old, but I'm not that old...in fact, my generation is guilty of this as well....I'm guilty of it. This is a continual step ladder from generation to generation and it has finally caught up with us.
"...95% of "border crossers" who are law abiding and work the fields for 10 hours a day. Go work 2 full-time jobs to make enough money to live in a house with 12 other people while trying to make ends meet."
um...how can an illegal alien, a foreign national who has committed a criminal misdemeanor (at the very least) to enter the country in violation of the law, and who works two illegal jobs and lives in a illegal boardinghouse be considered, in any way shape or form, to be 'law abiding'!!?
100% of illegal aliens leave their home and come here to commit crimes. Some of those crimes are as minor as criminal misdemeanor, some are felonies (like identity theft and document fraud) and some are violent felonies, like kidnapping, extortion, and/or human traffiking and drug smuggling. But whether it's minor crime or violent crime...there is no such thing as 'a law-abiding illegal alien'.
We in America accept more legal immigrants than any other nation in the world. Most Americans are pretty welcoming to those who play by the rules and actually want to be Americans. Not so much with those who cheat, and lie, and want only to exploit our economy for monetary gain. How this generosity and respect for the law gets twisted around to be 'prejudice' and 'xenophobia' is beyond me.
if the worst crime they commit is entering a country illegally then they are still good citizens in my book.
I've worked side by side with a lot of "illegals" and they are good people. Our inner-city people who live off the gov't and don't do a damn thing to better their lives could learn a lot. These "illegals" moved out of the slums they lived in to better their lives and the lives of their families. All of us can learn from their trials and tribulations. And I guarantee if you were dealt the cards they were dealt in life, you would do the exact same.
Get out of your own comfort level and put yourself in someone elses shoes.
Underground America is a book with many first hand accounts of "illegals" trying to make a life for themself. I suggest you read some of it to get a better understanding of the people you so maliciously hate for nothing other than coming into "your" country.
An illegal immigrant would not be a citizen of any particular state. So, since the Health Insurance Exchanges are state bound, an immigrant would not qualify, unless we drop the verification language as has been suggested. But then the illegal could purchase across state lines. Perhaps we should expand the current Exchange concept to override the state limitations. That would increase competition and save money for everyone.
"Sucking off the government tit (sic)" is more what defense contractors, other big business, Wall Street and the like have been doing to great advantage for a long, long time. Our poor, disabled and disenfranchised are mainly looking for a leg up from a government supposedly designed to protect them.
I have nothing but disdain for that attitude of some of today's greedy, paranoid sorts who feel they've earned a right to more than the next guy by virtue of having access to comfortable health care and some sort of insured retirement income ahead of them--or perhaps making their way comparatively stress-free largely due to inherited family money and property.
We should stop and consider occasionally, also, that the American Southwest pretty much belonged to Mexico until the mid-1800s. U.S. settlers elbowed their way into Texas in the early 1830s. The Gold Rush era bit later on pretty much took care of California, where most major cities still bear Spanish names.
Whatever. Given the same opportunities afforded the European ancestors of many of the rest of us, Mexicans will work as hard, contribute as well to society and assimilate into the over-all melting pot every bit as well as everyone else. It's been a long-hard road for African-Americans, tough for Asians--and it will also be a bumpy progress for Hispanics (and Muslims). Chinese were still a "Yellow Peril" on into the fairly late 1800s. Blacks were being lynched in the south in the 20th century. But all are part of the world family. The U.S.A. is just one of the neighborhoods of the greater community.
Russians and others are comparatively fortunate these days. They aren't as easily racially profiled on sight. Harder to distinguish them from Idaho Skinheads. And after all, it's all about being "white" (which, yes, I am--with a 370-year American ancestry).
bravo
A little history lesson on the Mexican-American War:
President Ulysses S. Grant, who as a young army officer had served in Mexico under General Taylor, recalled in his Memoirs, published in 1885, that:
" Generally, the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation was consummated or not; but not so all of them. For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory."
Grant also expressed the view that the war against Mexico had brought God's punishment on the United States in the form of the American Civil War:
" The Southern rebellion was largely the outgrowth of the Mexican war. Nations, like individuals, are punished for their transgressions. We got our punishment in the most sanguinary and expensive war of modern times."-Wiki
http://snipurl.com/sei7g
And Californians might consider that the state was Spanish long before it was English. First the Spaniards stole the land, then the English (Americans) stole the land. If not, then how do you account for all the cities named "San" this and "San" that?
Bravo. I, too, can trace one line back to 1640 and another to the Mayflower, etc. I think that people who recognize how difficult it is to be new to a country can respect the hard work it takes to make something of yourself. It's funny how the people that are the first to throw stones, such as Buchanon, are always the ones trying to prove something; he knows his ancestry is recent - and compared to me his ancestry definitely is - so he wants people to turn their hate away from him and toward the ones whose ancestry is MORE recent. Ridiculous.
All these Randian morons (and these days, people, mentioning Ayn Rand and her badly written books, just shines a big spotlight on your ignorance and moral pliability) talking about Mexicans shows they don't know any. As a native Californian, I've known many. I've known them to be amazingly hard-working with a strong work ethic. Morally, well, you can't touch them; the evidence of which you can see if you witness the respect they have for their mothers. I wish I saw that respect more in society, so they contribute socially to this melting pot.
I can tell Glenn Beck what happens to the farming industry when you make it difficult for immigrants to get into your country. I live in the UK now and 'to keep the for'ners out' they enacted laws about how many people on a picking crew could be from each country, which meant they didn't have enough people to pick all the fruit. The fruit rots on the stem while white British people hang out in front of the Job Centre drinking lager saying there are no jobs. If offered the picker jobs they say 'No way, that's for the Poles to do'. The same would happen in California. When I was at UCSC, I used to live in a building complex in Santa Cruz where everyone was a picker except my flatmate and me. What would happen if they were 'rounded up'? The fruit and veg would rot in the fields, the farmers would lose money, we wouldn't get food, the grocery stores wouldn't have anything to sell, i.e. everyone would suffer.
So get your heads out of your backsides and accept that WE NEED THEM.
And, having lived in New York, I have a tremendous respect for what many cultures thrown together on a small island can create. This is what makes America so wonderful. Don't you like spaghetti? Burritos? And if you say no, well, I don't even want to talk to you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------
October/08/2009
The same crooks ( The people that work in the health care industry and most of the republicans ) that are against the
passing of the badly needed Public Health Care BiIll are against any immigrant that looks different from those crooked
white republican senators.Why? Because they know that
people that does not look like John Mccain will never vote
republican.These republicans will start slandering ( spreading
lies ) and attacking any immigrant.
Republicans have always been against immigrants,
against women ( they did not want that women be allowed
to vote ),against blacks, republicans were always against
increasing the minimun wage,against the poor people,against
the social security,now they are against the public health care
bill.
These crooked republicans are always in favor of the giant
corporations,in favor of the wealthy,in favor of going to war with
Iran,because they know that their offspring are not enlisted in
the military,in other words they are cowards,et ectera.
Those crooked white republican senators are full
of hate.E,g;Most of the republican senators voted against
Sonia Sotomayor because she is a woman and because she
is latina and because she looks like an immigrant.
( 1 ) Destroy that ugly fence that George W Bush built.
( 2 ) Give citizenship to anybody that is honest and is
ready,willing and able to work.E,g; We need educa-
ted immigrants to replace the greedy USA dentists
and unethical medical doctors.Anybody that charges
$ 18,000 for a simple tonsil extraction should be in
jail.
( 3 ) Do not break into peoples houses and separate
little kids from their mothers.Do not separate
husbands from their wives.
( 4 ) Do not torture and kill people.
( 5 ) Prosecute Bush/Cheney
END!
------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------
I think also most Republican want people that can write and have decent grammar skills to bring arguments that are cogent and not just flat out stupid.
Republicans aren't against "legal" immigrants, just those that burden the system like our fruitful welfare recipients. To compare Republicans to people such as the Taliban that have no tolerance for other religions, let alone women's rights etc is just insane. What rock did you crawl out from under? Slither up somewhere else for your non-sensical vitriol.
So-Cal-Centrist(?), to deny the fact that historically, the Republican party has been the party of those who absolutely lack religious, cultural, and gender tolerance is at least ignorant. I think it is worse. It is dishonest and stupid. You are entitled to your opinion whether anyone agrees with it or not but, one thing we should agree on is the facts. If not, we may as well skip the formalities and resort to the cro magnon way of conflict resolution.
Also, in an earlier post you said "...but when some other nation that has become stronger while we become weaker, comes to take us, the warrior class will have been so fed up they will allow it to happen" I assume you forget that many of the US soldiers fighting overseas right now, a "warrior class" if you will, are in fact the people you are vilifying. Some are not even American citizens yet there they are risking their lives for you and me. That's a true warrior class if you ask me. If the day ever comes that some foreign power "comes to take us" I hope those people you are vilifying are here to fight alongside you and me. If not, I know were to find you, under your own cozy rock.
aibeta, brilliant. Yes, there are non-citizens fighting in our active ranks so that they can become legal citizens quicker. When they become citizens and law abiding taxpayers of age, they will also find disgust in the great country they fought for disregarding it's own laws. They will not like being taxed to death to give many a free ride.
Did you really say, "I think most Republican[s] want people THAT can write and have decent grammar skills to bring arguments that are cogent and not just flat out stupid"?!?! Really?!?! Was that a joke? Do you not see the irony? It's "...want people WHO can write and have decent grammar...", you twit. Not to mention the fact that you failed to use necessary commas, ignored a hyphen when it was called for and used the word "skills" redundantly. Ignoring the unbelievably racist cr@p that you have been posting on this board, how about a little self-reflection before you start criticizing others' lack of education.
>>To compare Republicans to people such as the Taliban that have no tolerance for other religions, let alone women's rights etc is insane
so-cal-centrist
"To compare Republicans to people such as the Taliban that have no tolerance for other religions, let alone women's rights etc is just insane."
While not the most articulate, nowhere in octavio's post did he mention the Taliban. He was just describing the Republican party, that you equate that to the Taliban speaks volumes.
Again. Fuck your religion.
Welfare recipients are much more fruitful than a flock of Christians on Sunday morning.
Religious right Repuglicans ARE the Taliban of America.
Octavio you've confused me terribly. When you listed point #3 I immediately thought of masked and armed agents taking Elian Gonzalez from his relatives and returning him not only to his father, but to Cuba. Yet you seem against Republicans. Remember, Republicans WANTED Elian left here, the country his mother died trying to reach.
I can see why you might be confused. Mr. Avlon disingenuously did not identify the speaker by party unless they were a Republican. It is a matter of easily researched history the extreme racial views (and believe me they did not like African Americans) of Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat, and the other so called progressives. They were if not the founders then the most enthusiastic advocates of eugenics, so wild eyed in their theories and practices that freaking Adolf Hitler found their racial views admirable.
Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. He was anti-slavery and believe it or not, freed the slaves. Republicans led the fight for anti-lynching laws early last century. Theodore Roosevelt, the old TrustBuster, who dismantled entire industries, was a Republican. George H. W. Bush, who ended the Cold War and arguably helped out an awful lot of poor people, is a Republican. For that matter George W. Bush advocated legislation that would have created a quick and easy path to citizenship for illegal immigrants.
Octavio, you gotta get your history from somebody besides Arianna Huffington and Michael Moore. There was history before you were born, the world did not start that day. Read a book before you spout off next time.
Peace, brother.
Drop the terms democrat and republican...Over the long haul of American history liberal and conservative are more accurate, I think Gary Wills called it the "covenant vs the counter covenant"...It was the liberal element who fought slavery, the KKK and the Jim Crow laws...Liberals fought for the women's right to vote, not the conservatives...It was the conservatives who fought against the new civil rights laws of the 1950's and 60's...If you look at contemporary anti-immigration leaders quoted in the article, it's pretty clear who's doing the race baiting and it ain't the liberals...However, all conservatives aren't racist and all liberals aren't perfect either, we actually need both sides to make things work here.
I think we all fool ourselves in thinking that political parties have had the same message throughout history. Or, that the actions of one or many people can be linked back intrinsically to what banner they stand under.
Tom - I agree with you about getting facts straight, and some of yours are pretty good, but it's simply not fair to say that the kind of Republican that Lincoln and TR were is at all in line with the Republicans today (just as it would be silly to say the Dixiecrats of the 50s and 60s are in line with current Democratic values). Parties are constantly changing their ideologies and platforms and so to claim any politician as your own from before about 50-60 years ago is a waste of time. Who knows what Lincoln or TR or Wilson would do today.
Further, I would strongly advise you from saying that Lincoln was "anti-slavery" as that is simply untrue. Almost no one in 1860, except for the very radical abolitionists (yesteryear's equivalent to the extreme left-wing), promoted ridding the south of slavery - Northerners were only opposed to the SPREAD of slavery to newly formed states (especially when those new states starting creeping north, like Kansas). This is an important distinction. Lincoln did not go to war to "free the slaves" but, rather, to reunite a country that had split after over 20 years of frustrations about creating NEW slave states, not freeing the slaves in established slave states.
out of all the possible examples , you pick the elian case ,which is very convoluted. do you really trust a mother who risks the life of her child in such a manner? the reason the right opposed the ruling is the same (anything you say is right, we say is wrong) atttitude we're seeing today, that & the rdiculous 50 year old policy that has not worked for either side
you might wanna back off your beck dosage also
Presantism, anyone?
urbancowgirl- Lincoln had a long and public record as being anti-slavery, as I claimed. I never claimed he was an abolitionist. He believed that if the "peculiar institution" was contained it would wither on the vine and die. Lincoln did not begin the Civil War and did not prosecute it to free slaves. He did indisputably free the slaves. A Republican therefore was not "always...against blacks" but did more than any other person, living or dead, to improve the lot of blacks.
tblunt- You're cheating in two ways. First you claim "liberal" Republicans did all the good. You want to drop the party labels and claim the victory of another as your own. Sorry, I'm not buying. Second, with the exception of Pat Buchanan and the (R) politician, the political affiliation and beliefs of the speakers quoted is not noted. You and Mr. Avlon conclude that these narrow focus, one issue people are automatically "conservative" about all matters. As a conservative, the racism of some of these comments, particularly by the odious Neal Boortz, do not represent my views.
jaggededge- I work nights and never see or listen to Mr. Beck. I picked the Gonzalez case because it was the most visible example of what I thought octavio was referring to. Past that clarification I have no idea what you are talking about.
I am sorry, Lincoln never freed a single slave and did not start the War of Northern Aggression to stop slavery. Lincoln's emancipation should be read, no where does it indicate that he is freeing slaves in the US. In fact, Lincoln actually sold some slaves that his wife acquired from the death of her husband (he could have freed those) and as a lawyer, he defended the rights of a slave owner to obtain the return of his property (about the only time he was concerned with the concept of "rights"). Now what Lincoln did do was to start a civil war by an attack on Charlestown harbor (not well covered in history books any longer), killed over 600,000 soldiers over an ill defined war, killed innumberable innocents (would not allow women and childern out of towns being shelled), killed a number of innocent Indians (Soux and Navajo), distroyed the constitution, arrested opposing Congressmen, shut downs newspapers, and so on and on. In short, we can thank Lincoln for our lack of freedom today and that is being further erroded by the Great Obama
Actually, Tom Sawyer.... Lincoln was an abolitionist.....at least politically.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/lincolnabolitionist.htm
Bravo.
Elian belongs to his FATHER you piece of garbage. You Repug scum think your sick political views trump a father's right to raise his son. His Mother was a two timing slut, and the rest of his family were neurotics and drunks, using Elian for their personal political football.
There is no denying the severe economic strain put on the state of California by those who use the services provided by the taxpayers without paying taxes into the system. California is the most liberal state in the union and is currently bankrupt. If something isn't done ASAP, the state is in real danger of complete failure. Yet, Californian's keep electing a Democratic majority to run their state. Same goes for Detroit, Cleveland, Miami, DC, etc. They are all failing miserably and have been under Democratic control for decades, some for 100 years. Why do they keep electing those who ruin their cities?
Its actually ironic that the immigrants actually have values that are more in line with conservatives. A vast majority of them are Catholics, the left hates Christians. Most value the meaning of working hard, Dems would rather everyone be reliant on the government. The majority are against gay marriage and abortion, while the left wants gays to have MORE rights than heterosexuals is willing to give abortions up until the due date. Furthermore, a huge part of the Democratic base is against any amnesty bills since immigrants would compete for open jobs. I think the immigration issue is a double edged sword for the Dems and it might not turn out as well as planned.
Well spoken Octavio!! If Wiseone printed something similiar, the beast wouldn't post it. The truth needs to be told and you did a good job.
You have that probelm too eh wiseone?
What did you do...read a book.
Octavio: I found myself in agreement with much of what you had to say...until you made the very uninformed remark regarding replacing "greedy USA dentists and unethical medical doctors." As a practicing dentist for going on 40 years, I find your remark to be most offensive and you to be a very uninformed individual. I don't know where you get your information that could lend any credence to such a stupid remark. I personally donate a good share of my time doing charity work for others, both in my office and at a local free clinic - alongside many other caring dentists and physicians. Greedy? I hardly think so. I would ask you to substantiate such an outrageous claim (read:lie) before you spew it out in such a demeaning manner. I, and my many dental and medical associates, have devoted our lives to helping and caring for others, at considerable expense and sacrifice of time and money. I don't know where your figure of $18 K for a "simple" tonsillectomy comes from, but, if this is truly your case, I suggest you approach the insurance industry if you desire jail-time for anyone. Maybe you would do well to go to your local automobile mechanic or plumber who might do it more cheaply. You have cheapened and discredited yourself as an honest, intellectual individual and, thusly, have no credibility in this discussion!
If TDB is going to keep running with John Avlon (le douche) articles then im deleting this place from my favorites. You can have this shit hole you left wing alarmist busy bodies.
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I think people are welcome to their opinions whether they are on the right or the left. However, I believe most people can see this man for who he is which is a typical left wing, bomb thrower getting his rocks off by making the right look bad. I have always liked TDB because I can get a balanced, intelligent views from its writers for the most part. Avlon is starting to get angry which is never intelligent.
Avlon's bias notwithstanding, there are probably as many Democrats and Independents that oppose ILLEGAL immigration as there are Republicans who oppose it.
He seems to forget that it was a Republican president that gave us the last Amnesty (the one that was supposed to be the last and final one) and forced hospitals to give illegals free medical care in their emergency rooms. And it was a Democratic president who signed the "Illegal Immigrant Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (1996)" which was intended to prohibit illegal immigration by tightening the borders, adding new methods for screening and verifying documented status, and strict guidelines for deporting illegals. Specifically, the bill called for quick and substantial increase in the number of border patrol agents and added new "summary removal procedures" that granted INS officers the authority to deport immigrants without any judicial involvement.
Frankly, the Democrats have been far, FAR better at addressing illegal immigration than the Republicans have been regardless of the popular perceptions voiced by Avlon.
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
You right wing, misinformed, "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" poser.
If you were actually the anarchist you proclaim to be, you wouldn't have a problem with illegal immigration because it would help undermine the traditional structures/institutions you so resent.
But you aren't actually an anarchist or a libertarian (little "L") are you?
No you're a right wing puppet with a half-assed education.
I'm an anarchist! (But I don't know what that means)
I'm a libertarian! (But only when it suits my pre-existing opinions)
You adopt labels that feed your pathetic ego and hope no one calls out your bullshit.
A mall cop thinking he's a Navy SEAL.
I suppose that Avlon thinks that it is morally superior to have been a democrat of day. You know, the party that was pro-slavery. The party that enacted Jim Crow laws, aligned itself with the KKK, and later opposed womens suffrage. Many of those "know nothings" that came to the republican party were also anti-slavery. Some also became democrats. It might be too much to hope that he would read a history book that hasn't been washed clean by the revisionist crowd who more often than not are leftist democrats. Anyway, as stated above, the issue is not immigration but illegal immigration. It truly is a sad state of affairs that opposition to people of any color coming into our country illegally has been turned to race-baiting and party bashing. Why do people like Avlon think its good to have open protectionless borders, grant illegals the benefits of citizenship, and demean those who want to play by the rules? We are living in bizarro world.
The Democrats ruled the ante-bellum south and there was nothing more conservative than a Southern Democrat. The ante-bellum north was the bastion of more liberal Republicanism.
The Civil Rights laws of the 1950s, which were championed by the Democrat party at the national level, caused the Southern Democrats to switch parties to the now more conservative Republican Party.
That's the dumbed down version, but covers the flip flop of both parties in a few words. If you actually believe that history books have been revised by "liberal democrats," (an absurd allegation), then I suppose you don't read history books. In that case, exactly where do you get your version of history?
Connie47- A seriously dumbed down version. Also a very self serving one. Your version of history purges your side of bad people and gives them all to the other side. Yes, conservative champion William Buckley was against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He opposed it as an unwelcome intrusion of federal power into the business of individual states. The Republican party does not begin to pick up southern conservative voters in a serious way until Richard Nixon's "southern strategy" which was lamentably salted with race baiting code words. The Republican party had become "more conservative" only in comparison to the "New Deal" Democrats. I can only hope that the thrust of Mr. Avlon's piece is that there will be an eruption of sentiment and protest against illegal immigration by passionate believers, not that the Republican party is encouraging racists.
I don't know John Avlon's party affiliation but since he was Rudolf Giuliani's chief speech writer I doubt it was democratic.
"You've got to admire the man's ambition" Dumb quote you got to worry about this man's ambition, now immigration, WHY? Especially when the economy is so bad, no jobs. Obama is a freak show he is A.D.D. on steroids. When does he ever complete a job, he has ten things going at once, is it a diversion or a cover-up to take your mind off one incomplete subject to another.
If this Bozo goes for Immigration, I think this county will go wild
not a good time for immigration. Never a good time for immigration.
I'm sorry that Obama can tackle more than one issue at a time unlike our most intelligent president before him.
does anybody remember Bush not being able to react to the first plane crashing into the Tower and just kept reading a book 2 grade levels above his own reading level?
I've heard this drivel several times now, from the shock jocks, the right wingers....the man has been in office for 10 MONTHS. Not even 25% of his first term has transpired yet. The jobs he has started are on the way to completion. Some that he's started couldn't be completed by anyone in any country in two terms, let alone 10 months. I have a big bone to pick with this, and I'm going to explain myself.
My father is a "me too" Republican. By a "me too" Republican I mean if someone in church or on one of the shows he listens to or watches states something, then in his mind it's stone cold fact. That's it. No research, intelligence, logic or even plain old horse sense goes into his assimilation of whatever it is. To be fair, there are a large number of "me too" Democrats out there as well.
While I see alot of differing opinion on this forum, I am delighted to see that for the most part the arguements are intelligent and that the participants are lucid and learned. But learned about....what? Alot of what I'm hearing is "me too" facts, not actual facts, OR, opinions couched as fact.
This does not an honest and forthright discussion make. Facts are facts. They are true. They are immutable. They do not change from day to day. Let us couch our arguments in fact and then passionately defend our opinions.
And as far as that goes, let me say this; "not a good time for immigration. Never a good time for immigration."? winston1, unless you're 100% Native American, buddy, that's how you GOT here. Why is it okay for our ancestors, but not those who want in now? Let them in, make them legal, collect taxes from them, and SHUT UP.
God, once again hysteria from all sides. Welcome to America, where the only real requirement to being American is an overdeveloped sense of doom and a talent for hyperbole. Yes, we have a problem with illegal immigration. Will it destroy us if we don't erect a giant Death Star wall and blast every Mexican who tries to cross the border? Probably not. Should we open up our borders and let anyone and everyone who wants to come in, come in? Probably not. This same story plays out continuously. In a hundred years, who will the new bogeyman be?
scott Our borders are wide open been for years, thats the problem.
Thank you, Scott. Well said. I'm exhausted with the political story lines in this country being dominated by the foaming-mouth-howling of the far right and the far left. Is it really any wonder that you can't get anyone out to vote? I mean look at this board! So much ignorant and flat out uninformed crap being spewed from both sides that its impossible to find any discussion anywhere let alone a fact! There's no coven of Mexican anglo-rapists sitting in Mexico drawing up plans on how to take over this country and drain it of all its wealth, and not every Mexican immigrant is an industrious, well-meaning victim of the racist-fascist American South. If people want to come here, great! Let them do it the legal way. If not, they're criminals and the law is clear as to what happens when you break it. What's all the yelling about? I love this country, but I'm really starting to hate its "citizens".
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Scott, go back to watching American Idol and leave the important discussions for the grown ups.
i understand your point scott1607, and i agree. "the sky is falling the sky is falling". this is the same as it has been and will be for time everlasting. while you're here, "clearthinker", i'd like to address a small portion of your previous post. as an intelligent, gainfully employed member of "this new generation", i think you sound like an outdated muddledthinker, rather than your chosen moniker would suggest. funny thing is - the average age of those i work with is 50 and you know what i see? people who fear change, use derision and mockery instead of articulate debate, won't embrace new technologies that increase efficiency/productivity, refuse to learn valuable new skills, a pervasive unwillingness to investigate new ideas, all the while reaping bloated salaries that aren't commensurate with their abilities simply because they've clung desperately to the same job for a quarter century. everyone i know in "this new generation" works hard for their share. there are losers and slackers in every generation - yours included.
and one last thing that drives me nuts about all the immigration hysteria: america was founded by immigrants. i understand arguments regarding economy/the cost of uncontrolled illegal immigration and i might even be inclined to agree. but blind racism and xenophobia is simply moronic.
whitebreadtoast: this is not an argument about young guy/old guy. There is sufficient evident to suggest younger people today are not employeed. Illegal immigrants in this country are doing the jobs that younger people of yesteryear did. Is this coincidental? This is the basis of my earlier posts. You did not address this. Instead, you called me a "blind racist" I guess. Though you may be able to facebook and twitter and can understand the meaning of Kanye West's lyrics, you still haven't mastered the technique of cognitive thinking and reasoning which I, being older than you, have.
Good comment, Scott. don't pay attention to Winston and not-so clearthinker. They seem to think that only hysterics can have valid opinions.
"clear"thinker (stupidstinker?), where is your "clear evident" that young people are unemployed? It's a given that some young people are unemployed, some are not. Just as some older people are and aren't. I agree illegal immigration is a problem, I was just making a point that the hysterical reaction to it is nothing new and is just a repeat of what happened to every new class of immigrant. In the beginning it was the Germans, the Irish. The fear moved on to the Italians and the Asians. Now its Mexicans. The fact is we're still here, we're still the melting pot and we'll get through it even if you wet your adult diapers. And thank you I will go back to watching American Idol for a bit -- it's more intelligent and informing than your posts.
Scott, you could google it...you know how to do that right? http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/09/thanks-barack-youth-unemployment. html The New York Post ran this story on Sept. 29.
scott in November of last year I would have agreed with you. I would even have said, Obama, McCain, Clinton, hell anybody but Bush can't possibly do enough in 4 years we can't fix it. But President Obama's "ambitions" far exceed his apparent capacity for detail, and we all know where the devil is. The behemoths already put in front of us.. healthcare as well as cap & tax are the epitome of legislative hyperbole, massive, disjointed, contradictory and once the flood gates open, virtually irreversible. These monstrosities will prove to be bad enough given the federal propensity for royally screwing up without adding even more problems with another ill conceived and politically motivated fiasco to further complicate the mess. I submit that the talent for hyperbole is the defining character trait of our age and we have the right man leading us in that charge to ... dare I?.. yes I think hyperbole is appropriate here... we have the right man leading us in that blind charge into oblivion.
We cannot afford continued uncontrolled immigration.
We are currently paying for illegal immigrant's health care (costly emergency room visits), schooling, housing, and various community support programs.
We need to hold employers 100% accountable for all the costs of employing illegal immigrants. This would make hiring them more expensive than hiring minimum wage citizens / green card holders. Eventually, the lack of work would result in many of the illegal immigrants leaving the U.S..
Meanwhile, in other news, old farts are surprised and outraged to find tomatoes are $30 per pound at their local grocery store...
We can have either a country which provides basic services for all its citizens - welfare, health care, etc. or we can have unfettered immigration. BUT WE CANNOT HAVE BOTH!
oldcrow- I agree with you we should be cleaning this country out, we don't have any idea who is in this country, espescially terrorists.
List your address, let's start with you.
If they can prove they have the border substantially shut down, I don't have a problem with them giving those here now a path to citizenship. We're going to need young healthy people to pay for all the entitlements were dishing out to our aging sick population.
"We're going to need young healthy people to pay for all the entitlements were dishing out to our aging sick population."
I assume by "entitlements we're dishing out" you mean to those aging people whose work provided the civilized society in which you grew up and were educated, to become the ungrateful person who wrote that sentence.
"Entitlements" means what is says. Aging people are entitled because they built everything you are presently enjoying. It isn't a gift from you and it shouldn't be within your power to refuse, but it is an obligation that you would like to renege on, so you think it might be nice to bring in a new slave class to do the work instead.
Read it again - John is pointing out that the wingnuts will come out in ultra force - he didn't say Republicans but the problem is the GOP is auto attached to the term wingnut. You yourself admit this problem with your very words.
I firmly agree that as a Republican, I'm against ILLEGAL immigration. We would have never suffered the housing bubble because contractor's would not have tolerated building homes without the ridiculous profit margins they experienced. If you didn't engage in this contracting affair, the last decade offered little in the way of prosperity. Exploiting illegals clearly made this bubble.
Wingnuts come in both flavors, hate is the uniting factor. I applaud John for writing about this. The GOP leadership doesn't appear capable of distancing the party from unflattering wingnut activities.
At times over the past decade, I've been irrate about illegal immigration, the tax avoidance plus sometimes lawlessness that comes with it. 9/11 is a poster child incident. But never have I been against a particular race joining the great melting pot. That is where we the GOP, need to be perfectly clear.
Let me get this straight, you say you're a Republican, but are against "wingnuts" (made up term). You say "wingnuts" have "hate as the uniting factor", but you have been "irate" over illegal immigration. Am I lost here? C, you're going to have to see that Avlon is taking a direct shot at you for even suggesting or thinking we need any kind of "ILLEGAL reform". This twerp doesn't want it because he is an apologist for the hispanic vote. Avlon is simply playing politics.
Think about this also, if "wingnuts" are such crazy racists, then why on earth would they "exploit illegals". By "exploiting" you mean give them jobs and pay them little? IF, you are a Republican- do you not think the minimum wage increases started this? Do you think increasing the minimum wage is a problem for small business owners. Liberals need to understand that huge corporations aren't the ones benefiting from illegals (some of them may be) but small business owners are the ones with illegals.
What does 9/11 have to do with this discussion?
I never said "wingnuts" are crazy racists - never used the word racist at all. Maybe I'll modify my meaning of wingnut to those with uncontrollable anger so maybe switch my word to anger not hate.
"By "exploiting" you mean give them jobs and pay them little?" Duh there thinker. Once again,do you think we would of had the excess building activity if the laborers were actually getting paid fairly?
Split hair over who is benefiting from illegal labor - Verizon has been connected to subcontractor's with illegals in my market. Why do you think any business including the small ones should have a legitimate excuse for not paying their employees properly? It's time to go out of business if you have to break the law.
Walmarting our entire economy is more to blame than minimum wage increases. Wanting everything cheaper and cheaper, aversion to paying taxes and not manufacturing anything as a country is more the root problem.
Maybe I'm wrong about 9/11 on this count, but were all their VISA's intact? My point is: Do we know who is in our country and their purpose - should we know? Yes. Everyday I look at a neighboring naturalized citizen who runs a booming crack house - he should be sent home. It should be a privilege to reside in the United States. Immigrants need to be "naturalized" so they are educated and obey our laws. Sounds like you like to bend the laws to fit your needs.
I agree with Avalon, the topic of immigration will bring out embarassing ugliness. I do not endorse illegal immigration employment - it undermines our economy. That's where we are today - crushed.
Cforchange: I understand your post and agree with most all of it. I agree that people should be paid "fairly" but the line of "fair" and "not fair" is getting blurry and I believe this is why business has started "cheating" by using illegals.
No, I do not bend the laws to fit my needs. I am trying to rationalize the influx of illegal employment and why it is being done.
How come there are illegal immigrants that can be here legally? Yet, I can't do illegal crimes, legally? I can't do illegal drugs, legally? I can't illegaly rape & drug 13 year old girls, legally. Oh sorry for the last one, I can do that if I have backing from the limousine liberals.
How do you "prove" the border is shut down? And then what about all of the visa overstays which have nothing to do with closing down borders?
If you reward illegal behavior with clemency then you will get more of the illegal behavior -- did we learn nothing from the 1986 fiasco? We've had over 12 mini amnesties since 1986 and the problem has only gotten worse. Virtually every illegal is guilty of crimes far more serious than simple illegal entry -- Social Security fraud, Tax Fraud, ID Theft, document fraud, etc. All of these crimes would get you and I arrested -- why should they be treated any differently?
The answer is attrition through enforcement -- primarily in the workplace. We owe the lawbreakers nothing.
If you think that the young and healthy illegals of now who by the way are working in jobs that will render them old and frail far before their time are going to pay for our aging and sick population then I've got some swampland in Arizona to sell you. The 20 year old landscapers working 70 hour weeks will be breaking down at about the same time as our current 50 year old accountants. Not to mention the wages these illegals receive and the taxes they pay doesn't promise much security to our elders.
The columnist premise was that the immigration topic would involve 'no-nothing' and/or dumb speech by American citizens. Possibly so but...
Everyone has some bias; ask the average Korean about the Japanese. Or ask my great-grandfather who did not like my grandfather because he was from Finland. And so on.
Free speech, even though it may be biased or wrongheaded from your perspective may have merit from a different perspective. That is what free speech is about - freedom to express opinions even though they are different or repugnant.
The essence of a great politician is to recognize this phenomenon and then counter it with his political finesse and skill - essentially knitting together collations of individuals to move forward in a particular direction.
Immigration is such a topic and the ability to change current policies and ideas will be another test of Mr. Obama's skills or lack thereof.
The bottom line is that illegal immigration depresses the wages of the poorest and most vulnerable Americans. The answer isn't to start rounding up illegals. Simply demand that all employers pay a reasonable minimum wage and vigorously prosecute any who don't. The incentive to seek out and selectively employ illegals disappears along with the ability to grossly underpay a worker and keep him off the books.
This wouldn't end illegal immigration, but it would certainly slow it down a lot.
I agree. These businesses can also get around tax burdens too. "reasonable minimum wage" is one of the solutions in my opinion.
And what would that wage be?
hispanics use this stupid mess instead of realizing this country can not continue to use tax money from their citizens to uphold these llegals i have no problem with anyone but that is just like jews acting like everyone in this country has to fight that old age problem of the holocost it did not happen in this country and it is getting tired
Earth to [s]Jon[/s] John. For the majority of us, there is a difference between immigrants and illegal aliens. One group is made up predominately of law abiding individuals, the other by their very nature are criminals. It's apparent which one the author favors.
should change the name of the article to the next democratic party wingnut proposal....
Border-jumping criminals bring disease, crime, lowered educational expectation, unlike legal immigrants, who obey the law. Go after all employers who employ these criminal aliens and hit them hard.
Will we never learn? It's as if many you didn't read any of the quotes! From the first day foreigners set foot on this country they have feared the changes different foreigners would bring. They wouldn't adopt the language; they wouldn't embrace our ethos, on and on it went (goes). Frankly, the only people who have been right about foreigners destroying their country were the Indians!
Ya got that right, Bunkie!
Was looking forward to seeing what was on the Top 25 wing-nut list. Too bad it was lame. Many of the entries were obviously done in jest. Given that premise - why not include every joke made about republicans?
With all due respect, it is not immigration per se that is upsetting to people it is illegal immigration that gets people riled up. I resent the racial component that has been injected. It is not about race but rather about lawful conduct. Why have laws if you're not going to enforce them? By allowing illegals to remain the message we send to all of the immigrants who played by the rules is, "You're all chumps!"
I agree with the retired first sergeant - the only native Americans are the Indians. Everybody else's ancestry is from somewhere else. But on the issue of illegal Hispanic's some have a more realistic claim on this land than the rest of us- study your History. It was the Demi-God Ronald Reagan that initiated the first blanket amnesty program to stroke his California and Texas buddies need for cheap labor. There has been a rush at the border since. But you will never here Pat Buchanan or Limbaugh or Beck acknowledge that.
All I ask in an immigrant is that they're attractive. Is that so much to ask?
I do not think this is an issue of race. This is an issue of what is right and wrong. Illegals, especially from Mexico, are bankrupting this county and creating expensive crime issues. I live on the border. White people have no problem letting others come to our country legally. The issue is that left wing nuts want to allow crimes to go unnoticed so that they can gain votes. This is a crime within itself. We need to have strict guidelines and rules. Without these rules and guidelines we will grow weaker and weaker and subject ourselves and our children to crimes. It is a downright shame that our president has a Czar who looks up to a child molester. What is our world coming to.
Thank you.
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