MSNBC’s Chris Hayes found himself in an unusual position Wednesday night—covering a fiery Senate exchange between his own wife and MAGA loyalist Josh Hawley.
The moment occurred during a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing in which the Missouri senator went head-to-head with Kate Shaw, a University of Pennsylvania law professor and legal analyst, over the surge in nationwide injunctions against President Trump’s policies.
Hayes introduced the clip on All In with a knowing smile, calling it a “fun moment” that featured “my wife, Kate Shaw, and Missouri Senator Josh Hawley—who is amazing, in his own way.”
The host said the senator “has been going to ridiculous lengths to defend the lawlessness of boss Trump.”
During the head-to-head, Hawley presented what Hayes described as “a big gotcha chart” of nationwide injunctions issued during recent presidencies, which “he seemed to think proved that Donald Trump is a victim of a vast network of biased judges from across the ideological spectrum.”
“Professor Shaw,” Hayes continued of his wife’s response, “suggested there might be a simpler explanation.”
He then played the clip, with Shaw—who had been invited by Democrats to testify as a witness against one of the Senate’s most vocal Trump defenders—telling Hawley: “A very plausible explanation, senator, you have to consider is that he is engaged in much more lawless activity than other presidents.”
Shaw added that Republican-appointed judges had also issued such injunctions, in an attempt to undermine Hawley’s point further.
Hawley argued back that nationwide injunctions were rarely used before the 1960s and accused Democratic judges of weaponizing them against Trump.
But Shaw—an expert in the field of such matters—responded that the federal government’s expanded role in recent decades had naturally led to more legal challenges, and the use of injunctions.
After airing the clip, Hayes appeared to agree with his wife’s assessment, suggesting that Trump’s frequent legal setbacks might not be due to a vast conspiracy against him.
“Maybe the reason Trump is getting blocked in the courts more than other presidents is because of what he’s doing,” Hayes said.
“And maybe not nearly every federal judge appointed by both parties—including Trump himself—suddenly became anti-Trump.”
