Former Ohio congressman and two-time presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has the tall task of managing Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s controversial campaign—and his first order of business appears to be distancing his candidate from the “anti-vaccine” label he’s become associated with. In an interview with The Atlantic’s John Hendrickson, Kucinich said calling RFK Jr. anti-vax is “a left-handed smear” and “a clipped assessment that has been used for political purposes by the adherents of the pharmaceutical industry who want to engage in a sort of absurd reductionism.” Instead, he suggested, Kennedy Jr. stands for “vaccine safety.” But when pressed on what “safe” vaccines the candidate may support, Kucinich seemed at a loss for words. “No!” he said. “This is … no. We’re not—look, no.”