A Catholic panelist was grilled on CNN about whether she believes that JD Vance knows more about “Catholic theology than the pope,” while defending the vice president’s attacks on the pontiff.
Caroline Downey, a columnist for the conservative outlet National Review, appeared on NewsNight with Abby Phillip to discuss the Trump administration’s ongoing feud with Pope Leo XIV amid the Iran war, on which Vance weighed in on Tuesday night.
Speaking at a sparsely attended Turning Point USA event in Georgia, Vance, who converted to Catholicism in 2019, suggested the pope was wrong to say that disciples of Christ are “never on the side of those who once wielded the sword and today drop bombs,” and that the pontiff should be “careful when he talks about matters of theology.”
Downey backed Vance’s view and suggested that Pope Leo’s remarks were “precarious” and risked “confusing” Catholics about when wars can be justified.
“Because does that mean the war to fight Hitler in World War II, was that unjustified? The war against the Soviet Union, was that unjustified?” Downey asked, while suggesting the pope could have been “a little bit more precise.”
Phillip then read out a statement from Bishop James Massa, on behalf of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, regarding the “just war theory” followed by Christians, which shot down Vance’s attacks on Pope Leo.
Massa said that the Catholic Church has taught for “thousands of years” that wars can be justified “in self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.”
“That is, to be a just war it must be a defense against another who actively wages war, which is what the Holy Father actually said,” the statement added.
“So he’s basically saying, in fewer words, the pope is teaching the gospel,” Phillip told Downey. “He is speaking, literally, what the just war theory is. And I guess my question to you is, do you think that JD Vance knows more about Catholic theology than the pope?”
In response, Downey replied: “I hear what you’re saying about just war theory that was created by St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine, and what you’re saying is that it has to be proportionate.
“But it’s also up to lay Catholics, according to the Second Vatican Council, to decide what that means for temporal matters. Just because the pope makes some sort of dictate on political issues,” Downey added. “That’s not a religious proclamation.”
Fellow Newsnight panelist Ana Navarro then interjected to say it is “ridiculous” that the guests are having a “rational conversation and debate here about theology,” in response to what the Trump administration has said.
“Because the insane, decrepit, senile old man who’s in the White House is posting pictures of himself posing like Jesus and attacking the pope,” Navarro said.
“It’s rather rich and ridiculous and ironic for JD Vance, who is the vice president to the president who is the least careful with words in my lifetime in this country—the man who celebrates the death of Rob Reiner and Bob Mueller, the man who cusses on Easter Sunday. Now JD Vance wants people to be careful with their words?
“Maybe they should tell the guy he works for,” she added.
